You don't even pay for that. You're essentially renting (and their terms of use and so on make that explicit). You're paying full retail price (and sometimes even more than that) for a rental.HuusAsking

If you rent a game then you're renting the game, otherwise Full Play Passes will be available forever (however he can't legally say that because technology changes etc). As was said in another review, you could go buy a SNES but good luck hooking it up to your HDTV. You aren't paying full retail price either, in fact new releases are usually $10-$20 below retail. Other titles are usually half the price of retail as well. And again, let me stress this, OnLive is not a PC it is a gaming console that works across multiple devices.

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Including Comcast, Cox, Time Warner, and Verizon? Perhaps you can provide a quote from the video that says to explicitly. And furthermore, there's still the matter of distance-based display lag, which nothing short of a faster-than-light communication technique can address. And let's not forget all those services capping their Internet usages. Using Netflix in such an environment is a stretch.HuusAsking

Yes, including all of them, you can see it in this video. If that's not enough for you, you can see their IPv4 Route Propaganda. Also, you're making assumptions now about distance-based display lag, which makes sense based on how our knowledge of the internet works. However, it is all real time. When you spectate in the Arena, it's 1:1 video and audio. If you were on the phone with someone, and watching them play on OnLive, the sound would sync up. When you're playing UT3, FEAR 2, Splinter Cell, or hell ANY multiplayer on OnLive, it is REAL TIME. There is no pause between someone jumping or shooting in a multiplayer game and you seeing it. I have ran so many tests with OnLive, it truly is an amazing service and many of your arguments are based on assumptions.

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Which means absolutely squat if OnLive goes down. When they go down, ownership of all those servers gets liquidated and sold to whoever.HuusAsking

OnLive can operate at any capacity, be it large or small. They get compensated for games purchased, games demoed, and now for the hardware. They were doing fine with 2,000,000 logins in 5 months (14,000 concurrent users), but in this article they state OnLive has received over 7,000,000 logins. If we subtract the 2,000,000 we're left with 5,000,000 logins in the two weeks since the announcement, which is over 350,000 concurrent users. They would be going down any time soon.

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That's where it falls flat vs. physical ownership and Steam-like DD where the files reside on your hard drive. You don't need Internet access to play. Very handy if you're a single-player fan. And if you want to be a serious competitor in the System Wars, you better bring something that a lot of people can access easily and affordably. Not a lot of people have good Internet access, and not a lot of people can afford the bandwidth.HuusAsking

You still need internet to obtain and DRM check with Steam, but onto your other arguments. OnLive is extremely easy to access, be it on a PC, Mac, TV, and soon iPhone and iPad. The OnLive Micro-Console is $99 which is extremely affordable, and comes with not only the Micro-Console but also an awesome Wireless Controller, HDMI Cable, Ethernet Cable, Power Cable, and a Free Game of your choice. Setup is simple and straight forward, there are no moving parts, and you only have to push the button on the controller to turn it on and jump into the games. All you need to play is a 3Mb/s connection, and nearly every major internet service provider offers this for a relatively low price. If they don't, they will at some point or another.

I'm sorry, point #5 I completly dissagree... Batman AA lors like crap! I just played the free trial version, wich wasn't even updated. It was obviously on low settings... and I have a 25/7 connection, it was almost chewing every ounce of it on the download side, so say bye bye to my monthy bandwidth cap. I haven' even played other games to test the lag... so unless the trial version is crap, or the fact that I live in Montreal Canada and by any chance the server is far... well this doesn't look very promising.

The review you posted, he was using the micro console thing, and has a 68Mbps connection...

Here's what my experience looked like..Bebi_vegeta

Actually it has nothing to do with your connection or that you live in Canada. The problem is the service currently only supports 720p and you're stretching the image to 1080p. That's a resolution difference from 1280x720 to 1920x1080 and will cause the image to blur. The micro-console outputs to 1080p, and hopefully 1080p output will be available on the Mac and PC clients on the Dec 2nd launch of the console.

You wrote it? Yeah, that makes what "you" wrote all that more special, I'm sure.XIntoTheBlue

That wasn't my point at all, it was to explain why this thread started by Rikusaki is so different from his other ones.

14,000 users is not a lot. EVE Online, as a single game, has way more users than that. As for Steam? Hardware isn't a problem unless you're not too knowledgeable when you buy a PC. And hard disk space? You can get tons of storage on the cheap. Even then, most users uninstall games they have not played in a while. Hard disk space is a nonissue. So how is only one operating system a negative? Sure as hell don't want to play on an overly expensive Mac.XIntoTheBlue

First off 14,000 users is a lot, especially since they didn't advertise once. Since the November 17th announcement however, I would estimate numbers are around 250,000 to 500,000 concurrent users (from November 17th to today) based on the announcement in their Special Thanks letter. Also, You're blatantly ignoring the benefits of OnLive when attempting to justify Steam.

Steam is certainly a great well established digital distribution method, however you still need the hardware, operating system, and disk space to run the games. Even if you are aware of the hardware required to build a great Gaming PC, you're still paying a premium for those parts. However, OnLive isn't made to be a Gaming PC or replace it, it's very much so a gaming console/platform.

I really don't understand how you can argue for parts and hard drives that are 'cheap', but can't see the value in a service that provides continually updated hardware and hard drives for free. All you pay for are the games.

Okay. I checked out the "partners" link and what did I find? Out of all those companies listed, the only company that offers Internet service is AT&T. That is only one company that does not provide good service everywhere. It's the last company on my mind when considering internet service. Second, it merely list it as a "partner". It goes into no detail as to what the hell AT&T offers in the partnership.XIntoTheBlue

And you're correct, which is also why I suggested you check out the Columbia University video. It goes into much more detail, explaining that they have cut deals with all the major internet service providers to route the best connection, etc.

Naturally, users will see performance degredation because the network they're on cannot handle it. Therefore, scaling is used to reduce the quality of the stream to lower the bandwidth needed. XIntoTheBlue

Actually you completely misunderstood the term 'scaling' as I was referring to servers. Servers are usually rack mounted and can easily be moved anywhere at anytime. Data Centers are simply rooms that are filled with these server racks, and you can put as many as you can fit into the room. 'Scaling' simply means they can add as many or take away as many racks depending on whats needed, so if the player base grows so can the service. If the player base drops, they can remove servers to off-set costs based on usage.

Okay. he states that he had good video quality. Now tell me, how is his comment on quality be of any merit when there are still many who do not have the conditions needed to play an OnLive game at the quality the joystiq reviewer experienced?XIntoTheBlue

OnLive isn't for everyone, and I don't think anyone is trying to make that claim. If your internet sucks of course you can't play the service, however it certainly works for the reviewer at Joystiq, and it certainly works for me. In fact it works for a ton of people, its free, and nothing is stopping you from attempting to use the service.

Not everyone has access to a Starbucks nearby. Obviously, that wifi hotspot that particular Starbucks had will not be the same anywhere else that has wifi. And how many people were utilizing that hotspot at the same time the reviewer was even there?XIntoTheBlue

Any place with Wifi should run OnLive, be it McDonalds or Starbucks or wherever.

If people are wondering why this thread is so different from Rikusaki's other threads its because he didn't write it. I wrote it, though nowadays I'm better known as Saieno.I've been a GameSpot member sinceJun 10, 2005, written a few user reviews, and stopped hanging around once Giantbomb formed. The list is certainly factual though, and I use them to support my opinions (which are the sections you might not agree with). Let me attempt to defend a few of the points.

The first point I make is the population surge. This review states that OnLive has had 2,000,000 logins from June to before November, which is roughly 14,000 concurrent users. And in their very own Special Thanks announcement, they state the surge in new users.

Many like to state Steam as a better alternative and completely disregards OnLive. Howvever, Steam games still require the hardware and disk space for whatever it is you're running, and the vast majority are only playable on one platform; Windows Operating System.

2) In the second point I reference Bandwidth Caps and ISP Deals.You can see a list of their partners, and in this video presentation at Columbia University he explains basically everything.

3) In point three I quickly state that if OnLive goes bust then the games can still be accessed because the servers are scalable.If you watch the Columbia University presentation he clearly states that he leases the data centers to the publishers. It's just a rack of servers that have special hardware, they can be scaled up or down and placed anywhere really. So you won't have to worry about your games at all.

5) In point five I talk about the video quality, which many of you disagree with stating it looks horrible.You should check out this review of the OnLive Micro-Console at Joystiq. Where they state and I quote:

" I was immediately struck by the image quality, having used the Mac client for months on a MacBook and being able to see artifacting even on the main "hub" menu. There was none of that to be seen here, with vivid colors and deep blacks that were in line with the best content I've viewed on my LCD set. Once in a game, I was wowed by the quality of the picture and the framerate. Assassin's Creed 2, Dirt 2 and many others looked noticeably better than their console counterparts, with higher framerates as well. My experience with the video looking compressed was mixed. Unreal Tournament 3 got downright muddy at times, while the aforementioned games and others such as Batman: Arkham Asylum, a very dark game, were razor sharp from my viewing distance, with compression artifacts only visible if I stood an abnormal distance from the screen"

8) In point eight I stated a rather weak arguement for OnLive, when in reality if you have no internet then obviously you can't use the service. However, in this review he clearly states multiple times that he brought his laptop to StarBucks and had played OnLive without any issues at all over Wifi.

10) Many people were wondering where I found that they support add-ons and the iPad/iPhone.Read the OnLive TOS and EULA, the support for user-generated content section is in there, and explains that they are submitted through the forums. As far as the iPad/iPhone, in their most recent announcement videos he shows it off again as the first couple times was as far back as last year.

I briefly glanced over the first couple pages of this thread, but will go back and read the entire post and attempt to answer any legitimate questions.

Don't believe me? Play any of the 'good' free MMOs, they're not good at all.Nerkcon

Perfect World International, Runes of Magic, Jade Dynasty......there aren't many good free to play MMOs, but they are getting there.

[QUOTE="OnlyKurial"]It's already been said that the game will be P2P. Guess I won't be touching this.FelipeInside

Yes. Some people just don't touch a game simply because you have to spend money on it. They also have players who will do the exact opposite, not touching a game just because it's free-to-play.

With MMOs I play more than 8 hours a day =/. Oh well.Lethalhazard

You might play more than 8 hours a day, but you honestly play 8+ hours every single day? That doesn't sound healthy at all! lol

The only similarity I see is with the compass, which is hardly something to claim "CLONE!" about. The gameplay, visuals, story, enviornment and nearly every other aspect of the game is completley different. Every MMO has an action bar, chat bar, and status bar, so just curious what makes WoWs UI the standard for which all MMOs must be compared to since WoW borrowed every other MMOs concepts.

everyone who calls an mmo a WoW clone or a WoW immitator has to have good reason that isnt argueable otherwise its not. its simply reusing certain mechanics or tools. the guns in crysis are also in SoF payback does it make it an Crysis clone? no it just makes it an fps. saying one game is a clone due to 1 or two reused mechanics or a similar art style is like calling another person a copy cat because of a ONE TIME coincidence event.. your childish and you know it. now if it looked the same used every mechanic from WoW and had its over the top equipment appearances with nothing but fetch and kill quests and perhaps a huge party area or two i would see an arguement but atm you are blowing steam.. thats it.

aura_enchanted

QFT

The only MMO I've seen thats close to a clone is Runes of Magic and World of Warcraft, though the interface and a similar graphical style is used.

story is all in text im guessing right? like not any cinematics or spoken dialogue?

theking52_TDK

There are some cutscenes for missions and certain quests, but all of the dialog text and quest descriptions are in text.