[QUOTE="basersx"][QUOTE="ghadz"]

You guys that say STALKER must not have been playing PC games for very long, anyone remember a little title called deus ex invisible war? That game ran like complete **** on everyones system, STALKER ran just perfectly on my 6800gs, 20 - 40 fps and it was very playable.

 

ghadz

Yes STALKER runs fine on my 6800GT in 1280x1024 but only with dynamic lighting turned off. With it on its like 10FPS! With it off its like 35-45.

You guys kidding? Played it in my Athlon 64 3500, 6800 GT system in 1024x768 in medium settings and in most outdoor areas I had to turn dynamic lightning completely off to get the game run properly.

Anyway its a shame such a game had so many bugs and poor optimization. Have this game been polished like western FPS's the HL2's, Halo's, FEAR's, etc. would go in hiding out of shame. Only Far Cry would be comparable to it. Still solid and enjoyable though.

Vampire: Bloodlines was the worst optimized game. You couldn't believe that this was a Source engine game.

1. Baldur's Gate (The most genuine D&D implementation on PC in terms of feeling and atmosphere, plus the best and most intriguing story ever in a game)

2. Planescape: Torment (Awesome story and rpg elements)

3. Baldur's Gate 2 : SOA (Fantastic sidequests and subplots, didn't like the whole Irenicus thing main story though)

4. KOTOR 1 (It's only flaw is that its too linear and subquests superficial)

5. Fallout 2 ( Better than the original)

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - Best RPG ever ( made by BioWare ) ( superb nonlinear story with the greatest story twist ever, great locations, very interesting characters, only a few bugs )

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords - Good RPG ( made by Obsidian ) ( boring unfinished linear story with a terrible ending, boring locations, uninteresting characters, a million bugs, it's more like an expansion pack because almost everything was copied from KOTOR 1 and only a few things were added )

Even if LucasArts didn't rush Obsidian to cut so much content I doubt it would have been better than KOTOR 1 ( even with team gizka's restoration project it won't be better ). Maybe they rushed KOTOR 2, but they also messed up Neverwinter Nights 2 ( linear boring story with a million bugs ). Face it: Obsidian keeps making average games with linear stories and lots of bugs and keeps making sequels from BioWare because they don't have any original ideas of their own while Bioware makes great original stories. I think that Bioware is the greatest gaming company ever and I hope they make KOTOR 3 ( but I doubt it ), but I just hope they make Mass Effect for PC too ( which I think will be the greatest RPG ever ) and don't wait 2 years after it's out for XBOX360 to make it for PC ( like they did with Jade Empire which is also a superb RPG ).

Darth_Kane

KOTOR 1 although a great game is as linear as an RPG can get. The subplots are superficial, exploration is non-existent and the focus is on the main story.

Best rpg by Bio ever? Have you ever heard of BG series? There you can find excellent and deep subquests and plots in perfect balance with the main quest (hear that Bethesda)?

If Obsidian are to be accused of incoherent storylines and half finished content (which is true) Bio can be accused of repeating themselves over and over with same story themes, interaction, NPC's (there's always a father-like figure at the beggining of their games because you're an orphan but with a great destiny awaiting, sounds familiar?) The only difference is that its getting worse all the time as NWN 1 was terrible and way inferior to BG and the interactive movie called Jade Empire (the first game that you don't actually play but watch) much inferior to KOTOR.

Mass Effect will NOT be released for the PC. It is officialy stated that its XBOX360 exclusive and you seem to forget that it is planned as a trilogy during the x360 lifespan. What makes people think that Bio has spare time and resources to make a PC port is their illusion that Bio cares for the PC community as much or even more than the console one (which is total bull off course). Rumours about their "PC exclusive" Dragon Age being made for PS3 too only strengthen this argument.

[QUOTE="phantom5242"][QUOTE="Dracunos"][QUOTE="phantom5242"]

Oblivion to start with has no depth at all. NPC's are uninteresting, dialogue is lame, you don't get any immersion whatsoever cause the game is so unfocused it's like there is no main quest, something that in the story driven rpg's you mentioned was strong and kept you going wanting more...

As for the clones, you must be kidding. Have a look at all the recently released so-called "rpg's" and also the ones in development in terms of game mechanics and gameplay or how their publishers promise "exploration in a huge unique fantasy world" and you'll see that I'm right. Exploration is good but it needs to have limits and have a strong story to back it up. Otherwise it's just an endless and pointless roaming in a boring setting just like oblivion and all ES games.

Dracunos

Kinda like real life.. Where there is no main quest, but there are things you get to personally choose to do and you make your own personal goals and make decisions on what you want to try for. It's realistic, just like the graphics. Immersion is doable when it's familiar to people playing the game, yet Oblivion was able to do it in such a completely different setting, fantasy.

The dialogue in Oblivion, considering their goal of making it unique, and not completely scripted, is an amazing advancement. Obviously you can write a strait-forward story very easily, but considering the goals they made for that game, they did extremely well. And in the future, I can only imagine how far they will have gone in that direction, if they choose to. I've still yet to see an Oblivion clone. I've yet to see one in the shelves. The absolute closest thing on this planet earth to that type of game would be Dark Messiah, which is drastically a different game in many ways. Except that it is first person.. And good graphics... And fantasy setting. There is a lot more to these games than that, if you've played them.

I have owned Oblivion for years, and have yet to start the main quest, except to the point where they give you a free horse right in the beginning. Oblivion is a massive first step to a new type of depth in gaming that may or may not be reached, but you must realize that writing a novel is something that is done all the time, and has been done for years and years. Basically scripting it into a limited RPG game where you play out the story is lots of fun, and when the story is really good, it's really a fun experience, but an almost limiteless, huge, open, and immersive game has a lot more realism to offer, for one thing. Having your own choice in games has recently become a huge popular thing.

Story-driven RPGs have pretty much reached their limit. I'd like to see more as good as Planescape, but it will still basically be extremely boring combat, repetitive fighting, and boring gameplay with a brilliant story that somehow drives you to continue on with that crap. Open ended games have a long, long way to go until they've reached their limits, and there's no telling how far, how deep, and how immersive these games will be in the future. Chances are in the future we will look at games like Oblivion and see the emptyness in them, and how boring and repetitive and limited they are.. But when you keep it in perspective of how hard it is to make a game like that.. And how huge the steps are that Bethesda took to create that game... I know I've never played anything like it, or better in that specific genre, and I know once in a while when I play the game again and again, it's very enjoyable of an experience.

Keep complaining, though. Just like all these people in this forum.. Just talk **** constantly about anything you can think of. It must feel great to do that

I never expected to listen about combat in PS: Torment being boring by an Oblivion fanboy. ES combat system sucks and even the Bethbots admit that. In PS: Torment you had a party and could make tactical choices during battle, and fight it in an infinite number of ways. Sounds boring to you? And just what kind of step oblivion is toward depth. There's is nothing new in Oblivion and nothing that wasn't there in their previous games. As for the fantasy setting. The setting itself being fantasy or sci-fi or post-apocalyptic is not important. Important is the setting to be presented in such a way that will make the player actually be immersed by it and feel part of the gameworld. Something that the BI and early Bioware rpg's had and something ES games never will.

You sound pretty damn young, so I'm going to assume you haven't been playing top down RPGs for years.. and years and years... and years.. But guess what.. They can add however many magical, amazing things they want, but the point still is, in those types of games, it's click.. and then okay.. your guy will do something.. Click.. do something.. Auto battles and stuff. Planescape Torment has almost exactly the same fighting system as almost every single top down RPG I've ever played. EXACTLY.. THE... SAME... The graphics are a bit different when you do the attack, but every single spell is still click.. click person you attack.. does points of damage..

Oblivion may not be the most advanced combat, but it's pretty damn good for one of the first, and you are extremely involved in every single subtle movement. It gets repetitive as well, but it's much closer to realism than a Top Down RPG could ever imagine to accomplish, just because of that style of genre. I think you take way for granted how unique of a goal Bethesda was trying to accomplish with their fighting system, and doing what they did was pretty decent to say the least. There have been few FPS style action fighting engines that weren't based with guns (that basically instantly, or almost instantly do damage to what you point your mouse at) that have done that well, although I hear Dark Messiah had improved on it.

Oblivion has tons of inovations that had never been imagined in games before, although many are a lot more subtle, and you may take those for granted. Basically, because of the fact that it's pure opinion, I can't do much to 'prove' that Oblivion has an extremely deep and immersive style of setting and gameplay, but I can say one thing.. Oblivion definitely does not have the deepest fighting engine in the world.. The story really isn't that fantastic, you basically do a generic fantasy storyline with portals and such.. It's very open, but so have a lot of other games been. But none-the-less, this game has been on the top ten on Gamespot for a long, long time.. Tons of people loved it, and there must be some reason besides the absolute fact that 'you're smart and everyone's so dumb they don't know that the game they are enjoying isn't fun and it sucks because it's the worst ever and it's gay'. I'm going to guess that the reason is the immersive and deep atmosphere of the game; the realism, both graphically and in the presentation of the game's world. A lot of time and effort was put into that, and it's pretty easy to see that fact.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're not even reading what I'm putting here, because you're ignoring most of my points, and just blabbing on about your factual opinions with no support at all except to explain that 'this is bad', and 'this is good', without putting forth any reason behind it. Especially considering you called me a fanboy, while I'm here giving you a lot of different things that Bethesda didn't do all that great with the game.. I'm simply giving them credit for the immense amount of work they put into the game, and I'm suggesting that to a reasonable number of people more than most games, it is considered extremely enjoyable. I even stated that I love games like Planescape Torment, that's probably one of my favorite games of all time, and I couldn't even begin to compare it to Oblivion to try and decide within my own mind which I enjoyed 'more'. But it's pretty hard to imagine that the generic 'top-down RPG fighting system' template used in most of those games could be all that fun anymore. I actually enjoyed the fighting system in Arcanum more than most Top Down RPGs simply because I appreciated the uniqueness and effort put into it.. Even though it wasn't.. 'fun', and actually kinda sucked more than the 'tried and true', albiet now repetitive and boring fighting engines.

Just like those console style RPGs, who have a very different fighting engine than old school PC RPGs. But every single one was almost exactly the same Final Fantasy style thing, and although they named the moves different things, and they did different types of damage or whatever.. It was still the same thing.. But now I see my friends playing similar games, but now they are trying things like fighting in grids and such. It just gets old after while, no matter how many unique names and pretty videos you can put to the exact same 'damage all enemies this many points that are this far away' attack.

My argument doesn't have too have the size of the US constitution to stand. I explained why exploration just for the sake of it doesn't make an rpg, and why for an rpg it takes dialogue, story, mixed with an amount of exploration to be good. I don't have to repeat it all the time so you can get it

And when you start to say that "well Oblivion has been on top of the list and there must be some reason why many people like it" seems you're the one left without an argument. 

[QUOTE="phantom5242"]

Oblivion to start with has no depth at all. NPC's are uninteresting, dialogue is lame, you don't get any immersion whatsoever cause the game is so unfocused it's like there is no main quest, something that in the story driven rpg's you mentioned was strong and kept you going wanting more...

As for the clones, you must be kidding. Have a look at all the recently released so-called "rpg's" and also the ones in development in terms of game mechanics and gameplay or how their publishers promise "exploration in a huge unique fantasy world" and you'll see that I'm right. Exploration is good but it needs to have limits and have a strong story to back it up. Otherwise it's just an endless and pointless roaming in a boring setting just like oblivion and all ES games.

Dracunos

Kinda like real life.. Where there is no main quest, but there are things you get to personally choose to do and you make your own personal goals and make decisions on what you want to try for. It's realistic, just like the graphics. Immersion is doable when it's familiar to people playing the game, yet Oblivion was able to do it in such a completely different setting, fantasy.

The dialogue in Oblivion, considering their goal of making it unique, and not completely scripted, is an amazing advancement. Obviously you can write a strait-forward story very easily, but considering the goals they made for that game, they did extremely well. And in the future, I can only imagine how far they will have gone in that direction, if they choose to. I've still yet to see an Oblivion clone. I've yet to see one in the shelves. The absolute closest thing on this planet earth to that type of game would be Dark Messiah, which is drastically a different game in many ways. Except that it is first person.. And good graphics... And fantasy setting. There is a lot more to these games than that, if you've played them.

I have owned Oblivion for years, and have yet to start the main quest, except to the point where they give you a free horse right in the beginning. Oblivion is a massive first step to a new type of depth in gaming that may or may not be reached, but you must realize that writing a novel is something that is done all the time, and has been done for years and years. Basically scripting it into a limited RPG game where you play out the story is lots of fun, and when the story is really good, it's really a fun experience, but an almost limiteless, huge, open, and immersive game has a lot more realism to offer, for one thing. Having your own choice in games has recently become a huge popular thing.

Story-driven RPGs have pretty much reached their limit. I'd like to see more as good as Planescape, but it will still basically be extremely boring combat, repetitive fighting, and boring gameplay with a brilliant story that somehow drives you to continue on with that crap. Open ended games have a long, long way to go until they've reached their limits, and there's no telling how far, how deep, and how immersive these games will be in the future. Chances are in the future we will look at games like Oblivion and see the emptyness in them, and how boring and repetitive and limited they are.. But when you keep it in perspective of how hard it is to make a game like that.. And how huge the steps are that Bethesda took to create that game... I know I've never played anything like it, or better in that specific genre, and I know once in a while when I play the game again and again, it's very enjoyable of an experience.

Keep complaining, though. Just like all these people in this forum.. Just talk **** constantly about anything you can think of. It must feel great to do that

I never expected to listen about combat in PS: Torment being boring by an Oblivion fanboy. ES combat system sucks and even the Bethbots admit that. In PS: Torment you had a party and could make tactical choices during battle, and fight it in an infinite number of ways. Sounds boring to you? And just what kind of step oblivion is toward depth. There's is nothing new in Oblivion and nothing that wasn't there in their previous games. As for the fantasy setting. The setting itself being fantasy or sci-fi or post-apocalyptic is not important. Important is the setting to be presented in such a way that will make the player actually be immersed by it and feel part of the gameworld. Something that the BI and early Bioware rpg's had and something ES games never will.  

Max Payne 3 - (Chances of this game will happen is very small. Remedy Entertainment' is making Alan Wake and said they will not make Max Payne 3. Although if Max Payne: the Movie ever gets release and has big success, chances of seeing this game would greatly increase, me thinks.)

cnlst8

It's not up to Remedy anymore. The gaming license gathers dust at Rockstar and they are to blame. All they care about is giving about 3 GTA games per year while leaving MP fanchise behind.