pie-junior's forum posts

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1 pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts

@top_lel said:

Now I've come to terms with myself that if there's something worse than ISIS, it's the western people whose only purpose is to antagonize without ever trying to see the truth. What's the difference between those people and the ISIS? well, almost none. Whereas those terrorist use the verses from the Quran in the wrong way to justify what they do, the western people take the same wrong meaning and justify their claims about Islam being 'sexist' or 'barbaric' or whatnot.

ITT: I learn that insulting Islam is at least as bad as genocide and mass murder

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts

@toast_burner said:

@pie-junior said:
@toast_burner said:

@alim298 said:

@effec_tor:

Thank you for going through all that trouble.

As you can see for yourself those countries put a great emphasis on their Arab nature alongside their Islamic nature. So yes it's different.

How is it different?

most arab constitutions formally acknowledge the existence of a state religion, while Israeli law does not.

But the end result is still the same regardless on whether they're honest about it. If Israel makes it official that won't make it any better.

This bill certainly doesn't make Judaism the official state religion in Israel, and Israeli law is certainly not compatible with jewish religious law or tries to follow it.

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts
@toast_burner said:

@alim298 said:

@effec_tor:

Thank you for going through all that trouble.

As you can see for yourself those countries put a great emphasis on their Arab nature alongside their Islamic nature. So yes it's different.

How is it different?

most arab constitutions formally acknowledge the existence of a state religion, while Israeli law does not.

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4  Edited By pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts

@alim298 said:

Then again perhabs it was something that netanyahou said to the press?

lol no

despite what middle-eastern media and pro-palestinians try to paint him as, netanyahu would never purposfully say something even remotely outside of the Israeli consensus, and definitely not something as outrageous as 'only jews are real Israelis' or something of the sort.

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5 pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts

@alim298 said:

@pie-junior said:

where do you think he got the slew of fabricated details if not on pressTV or other Iranian state media?

Sorry to disappoint but I don't watch national tv at all. Have been busy and didn't get around watching pressTV either. As I said I think it was aljazeera.

i give a bit more credit to aljazeera english to believe this kind of misrepresentation came from them. but ok

just so we're clear, though: it's pretty shit even without the fabrications

It's some listless attempt to appeal to the Likud base constituency, in the face of growing palestinian violence, and considering the seemingly looming elections

someone should tell netanyahu that's not a good enough reason to **** with constitutional law, especially since this bill might single-handedly crash his coalition and bring about elections itself

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6 pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts

@Master_Live said:

@alim298 said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@alim298 said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@alim298: Where do you live?

Middle east

Yes that is obvious....why no specifics? I mean I'd tell you I'm from the US not North America.

Iran

I'm sure this piece of information won't be used against OP.

*crosses fingers*

where do you think he got the slew of fabricated details if not on pressTV or other Iranian state media?

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7  Edited By pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts

@alim298 said:

@pie-junior said:

@alim298 said:

I'm talking about native Israeli Arabs who had to leave the place for various reasons. They won't be able to come back to Israel as "Israeli Arabs". They will be regarded as Arabs regardless of their ancestry because only Jewish people are Israeli by default. (should the law pass that is)

that's an unequivocal lie

this act has no bearing on the rights or citizenships of non-jewish Israelis

I'm not sure that's true either. I read it somewhere (maybe it was aljazeera?) I've not seen any authentic document regarding this law as it has not passed the Knesset yet. if you find one let me know.

everyone has access to the proposed bill. like any bill, it's public record- It's also in hebrew. but here:http://index.justice.gov.il/StateIdentity/ProprsedBasicLaws/Pages/NationalState.aspx

there are two bills: one proposed by PM netanyahu, and one by 3 right wing members of his coalition.

It's very short and generic, and states things that are already very well accepted law in Israel. what it does do differently is: make an explicit appeal to the tradition of 'jewish law' as inspiration for israeli jurisprudence (this doesn't exist in netanyahu's bill, which is the one likely to pass), revokes to status of arabic as an official language in Israel and goes along the lines of:

1. Israel is the national home of the jewish people, and where they alone have the right of self-determination...

2. Israel is a country with a democratic regime; based on the principles of justice and freedom and obligated to the personal rights of all of its citizens, as specified in every basic-law

which is a contrast to every other basic-law in Israel that goes: 'Israel is a jewish and democratic state'.

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8  Edited By pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts

@alim298 said:

I'm talking about native Israeli Arabs who had to leave the place for various reasons. They won't be able to come back to Israel as "Israeli Arabs". They will be regarded as Arabs regardless of their ancestry because only Jewish people are Israeli by default. (should the law pass that is)

that's an unequivocal lie

this act has no bearing on the rights or citizenships of non-jewish Israelis

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9 pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts

@alim298 said:

@Master_Live said:

"the right to self-determination in Israel and to a flag, an anthem and free immigration."

What does that mean? Will Arabs still be able to vote? What about this "free immigration"? Is that just the ability to emigrate to Israel?

It means that should the law pass the Knesset, the Arab refugees of war (for one) will not be able to come back to Israel ever. I don't know about voting though.

It certainly doesn't mean that, considering there are already acts dated from 1950 that deny the ability of arab refugees from the 1948 war to return. Israel will never allow those 'refugees' (considering UNRAW counts anyone with any genetic association with actual 1948 refugees, and now numbers them at around 12 million) to return, anyway, considering it will end Israel's existence.

Avatar image for pie-junior
pie-junior

2866

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

6

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10  Edited By pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts

i don't understand what, exactly, is the problem with an act solidifying the status of Israel as a nation state, when so many of world countries are nation states.

What you, or any other demagogues talking about this bill (in Israel or out of it) misunderstand, is that Israel is already characterised as 'a jewish state' in its basic laws. the only difference this bill seems to make is that it puts a paragraph about the jewish nature of Israel ahead of the paragraph about the democratic state of Israel, breaking the long accepted legal and symbolic term of 'A jewish and Democratic state'.

This causes fear in the secular public in Israel that Judaism will now take a larger role in Israeli jurisprudence, considering that up until now the Israeli supreme court interpreted Israel's 'jewish' nature as being non-religious ('jewish' being identified as originating from the legacy of spinoza and einstein rather than jewish religious law).