stanleycup98's forum posts
Who are the main antagonists right now? Tywin, Joffrey, Cersei, Frey, Wildlings, Boltons. Who are the main protagonists? The remaining Starks, Stannis, Daenerys and her posse, Jaime, Brienne, Tyrion, the Tyrells, Sam. (I'm probably missing a bunch, and I left out some borderline people like The Hound). I don't see the antagonist hoarding.
Now how many real, likable protagonists have died so far? Ned. Robb. And...? That's all I can think of. Sure, I guess no real antagonists have been killed yet, but I think that's where your view is coming from. You've seen two shocking deaths of major protagonists, yet none of antagonists. But I'm sure that will resolve itself soon enough.
Maybe I have a skewed opinion because I have finished the books, so I know completely what happens. I remember when I read the Red Wedding chapter. I thought the exact same way as you, thinking that the good guys would never win, nothing good will ever happen, fvck GRRM, etc. etc. But I kept on reading and I'm perfectly happy with the way that the series went. And that should give you indication that things get a lot better. Without spoiling anything, there isn't going to be a Red Wedding-like event every single season without any antagonists getting their due for the rest of the show.
If people leave the show because of this scene they are stupid. It's in the books as a pivotal scene and it must stay in the show. The fact that people would leave the show because it actually tries to follow the book story line in garbage. Good riddance to them.[QUOTE="ferrari2001"][QUOTE="wolverine4262"]From some of the audience reactions I have seen, the show may have successfully lost a significant number of viewers.
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EDIT: at SexyJazzCat: I knew it was coming and still had to fight back tears. It doesnt get easier.
Serraph105
For me it's less about *this* scene, and more about the realization of what this show is about, and will continue to be about. Jaime lost his hand, Theon is still getting tortured somewhere, Little Ayra lost both parents along with her brother, we are most likely going to continue to watch the Stark family die, I fully expect the author to kill of Jon Snow one day, and so on and so forth.Â
I can handle being upset while watching tv, but it seems GOT's is leading towards becoming a story where there are no likable characters left or if there are they are not in any sort of position to do anything about their sitution in life.
I don't want to spoil anything, but based on what you say you want, I think you are going to be happy in the future. Trust me, GRRM is not going to kill off all the likable characters or have the bad guys win in the end. That's all I will say (and can say, the series isn't even done yet).[QUOTE="Serraph105"][QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"]eh I've gone ahead and looked ahead at some spoilers to see if there is enough payoff for me as a viewer down the road to warrant putting up with episodes like this, and I'm honestly not sure there is. I might tune into see certain unlikable characters bite the dust (and yes I intend to finish up this season), but I can't see myself soldiering on for more episodes like this in the future. I'd rather pick a different show that doesn't like to constantly hate fvck it's audience. [spoiler] I don't really want to see Catelyn become a monster of her former self btw [/spoiler] This is something that really bothers me, and I constantly think if I can keep watching the series. The thing is, there are like what, 5 books now? 2 more are missing, and it takes around 2 years to write one, maybe 3, each season roughly follows 1 book, and there is 1 season per year. The show has at least, 4 or 5 years more to end...I dont know how will they be able to keep up with that, I dont think it can keep going for so long. I considered to stop watching it by the time I found out about the red wedding, but like you did, I went in further and spoilered myself to see if it was worth to go on...sorry but the answer is no, typical of Martin, he's just stretching the plot and delaying it further, things dont get better for the Stark or for anyone in the following books. The problem with the show is that they have built up the Starks = good guys connection way too much. The Starks should not be considered the main protagonists, IMO. Jon, Arya, and Bran are the only relevant characters. Jon isn't even really a Stark. Arya is arguably not even relevant (yet). Bran is off on his own. If you are watching this show with the intention that the Starks will continually build up strength and have a happy ending, wiping out an enemy house at the end of each season, then, frankly, you are watching the wrong show. I'm sure this will be the end target, but the series is the story about how actual warfare between houses works. Remember this series is based on the War of the Roses. I think it is silly to say things don't get better for anyone in the following books. That's ridiculously inaccurate. Things get better for a LOT of people. The problem is, show watchers don't realize that these people are the main protagonists. They are watching this series with the hope that in every episode, the Starks will gain in power, when that isn't the point of the series at all. Your idea of GRRM stretching out the plot is that he isn't resolving the Stark story line fast enough.People always spout out this nonsense. They'll be back for the following episode.
lightleggy
[QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"][QUOTE="wolverine4262"]Â
From some of the audience reactions I have seen, the show may have successfully lost a significant number of viewers.
 Serraph105
People always spout out this nonsense. They'll be back for the following episode.
eh I've gone ahead and looked ahead at some spoilers to see if there is enough payoff for me as a viewer down the road to warrant putting up with episodes like this, and I'm honestly not sure there is. I might tune into see certain unlikable characters bite the dust (and yes I intend to finish up this season), but I can't see myself soldiering on for more episodes like this in the future. I'd rather pick a different show that doesn't like to constantly hate fvck it's audience. [spoiler] I don't really want to see Catelyn become a monster of her former self btw [/spoiler] I'll be honest here (very broad "spoilers" that encompass most of the series): [spoiler] Robb is, IMO, the last "really likable" character that (actually) dies in the books that have been written so far. The Red Wedding is known as the most shocking scene in the entire series, followed by Ned's beheading. You got past both of those. You won't be fvcked that hard anymore. I can't stress enough that you should really keep watching. [/spoiler]I'm not going to quote you, Wolverine, because I don't want to get spoiled, but people almost always have that premature reaction to character deaths in television. People swore off Boardwalk Empire after that second season finale, and, from my understanding, the ratings were higher towards the end of the third season than they were for the second. Yeah, yeah, you'll miss these characters, but you'll be back for more.sammyjenkis898Heh, I still haven't started watching season 3 of Boardwalk Empire. I'm sure I will one day. But overall, I don't see how this will affect their viewership at all. Real fans of the show will watch the next episode, where hopefully they will put in some closure. And this has been such a huge event that people who don't usually turn into GoT might watch next weekend or next season. Also, HBO doesn't care about ratings anyway. Their income comes from subscriptions.
[QUOTE="Dr_Manfattan"]
i assume it's because she was ready to fight with him, and she would be killed by the wildlings for it. he pushed her down to save her.
th3warr1or
To protect her.
She would have fought beside him and killed wildlings. Â He pushed her down and that commander held her back.
Squeets
But isn't she pretty much shafted anyway now that he's obviously still loyal to the Watch, and that even Tormund knows that she was going to take his side?
No. Tormund realizes that Ygritte was doing it for love, not because she was betraying the wildlings. He holds her down so that she doesn't join Jon. They didn't make it as obvious in the show, but she kind of came to her senses when Jon was riding away. She realized that he had been playing them all along. In the books, she actually shot Jon in the leg with an arrow, but for some reason they left that out.So.. from the show standpoint, can someone tell me why Jon shoved Ygritte during the fight? From what I can see she wasn't aiming the arrow at him. th3warr1orSo that she wouldn't kill the Wildlings. He doesn't want her to die because of him. [QUOTE="Laihendi"]It was not one of the better episodes. The fight scene with Grey Worm, Jorah, and that other guy was pointless from a narrative perspective and it was also so ludicrous that it cannot be taken seriously. The Red Wedding was rushed and the acting was mediocre. Many details were cut out and this would have been much better if the entire episode had been devoted to covering the wedding, as how the Blackwater battle was handled last season. One of the things that made this section of the book interesting was Catelyn's gradual progression from suspicion to paranoia to fear to a repugnant spiteful despair. In the episode this was compressed to approximately 30 seconds of screen time which made it unimpressive and disappointing. Also, Bolton's line in the book is "Jaime Lannister sends his regards", but in the episode he says "The Lannisters send their regards". The line in the book was better, because Jaime really did tell Bolton to say that though he meant it in goodwill. Bolton's delivery of the line causes [spoiler] the revived zombie Catelyn to misunderstand Jaime's intentions and results in her having a misplaced and reckless hatred of him that results in her having Brienne hung when she realizes that Brienne became friends with him. [/spoiler] Also the scene with Rickon was contrived and obnoxious. The line about him needing to stay because he is Bran's brother and therefore has to protect him was stunningly stupid. Ygritte was also needlessly simplified. It would not have been difficult to have her shoot an arrow at Jon as he rode away, and this action would have serious implications on the nature of her relationship with Jon (as it does in the book). The only thing I agree with you about is that I was disappointed that Ygritte did not shoot Jon.
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