the teachings and the lessons and the scriptures all make the most sense really the other extra scriptures we have had a complete picture where as if you take the bible alone it really appears to be lacking something does it not?. and personally i like the format of being able to speak up in sunday if you disagree with something so if your teacher maybe has it all backwards and you have a quote from the scriptures they perhaps missed it can be corrected and discussed. i think that format does perhaps attract some people but again i cant speak for everyone the attraction to the church is as stated again reading the book of mormon and praying about it unless you do that youll never quite get the attraction to it. and besides islam or at least its leaders of its countries hate america and israel im not all too family with the religion otherwise [QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]I've a question:So there's a prescribed education campaign with the church, but it seems that there is still flexibility in the teachings. I still can't see this reason as a strong attractor to the faith - only as a strong technique for maintaining it. Is it the mechanised consumption of doctrine that establishes Mormonism as a preferable religion to other forms of Christianity for you? If so, isn't this like Islamic Madrasses?
RationalAtheist
Mormonism is quite American-focused as a faith, isn't it? But Mormonism is international too. Is it possible for Mormons in different countries to obey their countries different laws that conflict with each others? I'm not in the USA myself, so have a harder time than Americans conceiving of the particular visions that religion portrays. Does God really authorise war? Why be loyal to such a vengeful tyrant? And isn't the government corrupt only until a revelation to a minister that steers Mormonism back on a legal course.
the view on america is....its the choice land above all other lands...now moses lead his people to a choice land....but not a choice land above all other lands before you ask. we also hold the view america is special and divinely inspired and one of its greatest purposes was to in fact grant religious freedom so that God could restore his church and notice even with that mormons did got a death order from the US government....and remain to be the only church is USA history with that distinctive honor. why cant God authorize war? any passing study of our relgion seems to be clear if your wicked hes going to destroy you unless you repent. furthermore we actually have on scripture that says war is ok only if The LOrd authorizes it. hell the bible alone seems to be full of wicked folks getting destroyed so please dont discuss Christianity and somehow not think GOd wont authorize war that very notion is laughable. and please why exactly is the only corrupt after a revelation? LOL seriously anybody even a 4 year old can tell me politicians are lieing scum bags....honestly this is cherry picking a fairly obvious detail that government is corrupt really every government is and becoming more so by the second it seems. i dont live in chine or britian but i still know enough to know you have liars running the country. honestly man.....sorry no offense but this was a dumb question. but if you must know i'd have to guess it would be considered uncorrputed after it starts following the constitution again im not entirely sure nothing more is said on the matter other than the elders will save the country no how when or where. unless of course you dont think the governments are corrupt? and what do you suppose he does to the wicked unbeleivers that go around killing tons of folks? have us turn our cheek and take it so that the whole world is plunged into darkness?they might be vital and they are part of our scriptures that said i may of asked at some point where they came from and their history but i cant remeber and honestly it doesnt bug me and isnt something vital to my faith theres probably alot i dont know about the church but i do say i know a good bit but sorry i dont know everything about it. [QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Its quite interesting looking into the history of the scrolls. They do seem to contain the basis of your faith. How this message was presented to your founder and how he translated it should be a vital part in the reasoning behind a belief in Mormonism to me.
RationalAtheist
If you look for anything hard enough - you may think you've found it. Personal testimony is really all we have subjectively, but and objective sense of reason should apply critical thinking to such ideas for me, as I explained earlier. The tie in between the priesthood, revelations and proper Mormonism belies the original break Smith had with the church and its ministers to my mind. It rather neatly also means only authorised Mormons can have revelations (rather like the old ideas of Catholic priesthoods) that raised them above the common faithful.
yes personal testimony is subjective and i am all for objective reasoning. but to understand why i chose LDS over other churches is almost impossilbe without reading the book of mormon and praying about it. it really is as its the prayer and confirmation you get that makes you understand it. its that simple unless you do it you wont have that full grasp only a part of it which is like seeing half the tv screen your still missing half the show. that said why dont you read it and pray about it with and open heart and mind as ive suggested that is if you truely want to understand the LDS faith as you seem to be trying figure it all out with your barrage of questions. come on what do you have to lose exactly....not afraid you might actually find God are you now? yes as far as the head of the church only authorized mormons can get those revelations we call have receive personal ones. the original break was they didnt think young was the next prophet and perhaps other things but this was largely it they thought it should of been smiths son well ya that and polygamny but ive already explained that and so has android. and sure you may be able to have a revelation but it would contain to you and you only well and perhaps your family and friends. only the authorized heads of the church can receive guidances for the whole church. this authority of course comes soley from Christ. [QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]The evidence you gained could be evaluated objectively. I think life is full of "wow" moments. These moments are not reserved for the faithful but are a only human responses to stimuli. Rational explanations of your experiences could be to do with the "proper" and intimidating circumstances in court-rooms and the latent heat coefficient of defrosting bread in ambient conditions.
ok how about the countless times its been used to heal someone? i can recall myself being healed instantly i can recall going from massive high fever to jumping straight up and down further more i was probably 7 at the time this happened? surely these arent all just random instant stimulation? or how about asking for a blessing on injured limbs that look broken yet end up being merely bruised and have a quick recovery? honestly i can find countless examples for you to try and disprove. never mind if i seek out stories that have been published about it and stop just talking about my own personal experiences. youd never be able to scratch them all and evne then your arguements for the current two arent very strong especially if you asks the people invovled and even looking objectively bread does not defrost from solid rock to ediable in 5 minutes it just doesnt. or while were trying to disprove it go google mormon patriachal blessing go have fun disproving those you honestly cant account for it. heck my own and im sure many others contain thoughts that were secret in our minds to us and us alone that got revealed easily...agian google that patriachal blessing and have fun disproving those. and the best lawyers in the area dont magically crack under pressure they simply dont. people dont get hands put on their head and get pronounced they are healed and walk around find moments later without divine help. its just not happening. but feel free to explain these miracles other ways if you really think you can cover an explanation for all miracles ever go for it as essentially if you doubt the priesthood you must be able to explain every miracle ever because they all stem from God would they not and that is his power the priesthood. so i ask if you dont take my read a book of mormon challenge what exactly are you gathering by asking questions?
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