[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]
[QUOTE="Sunfyre7896"]
I didn't realize that everybody that was walking around before timeout existed was fu**ed up. Was that from some book that you read? I guess I have been schooled. My grandparents and my friend's grandparents and all those elderly that I've always seen everywhere are fu**ed up from all of the punishment before timeout came into being.
This sounds like trying to sound scientific to fit your agenda. Are you going to tell me that most people throughout the centuries that were spanked turned out really messed up or were all just hiding it out of embarrassment? How can you be so sure that people were so messed up from being spanked that they all needed a psychiatrist or just went psychotic and were maladjusted for society? And what's with the whole 'I don't have the right' statement? I don't have the right to have common sense. Well then I really am sorry. Pardon meeee. I didn't mean to use common sense.
Sunfyre7896
Corporal punishment doesn't automatically turn people into sociopaths, but it does tend to make them selfish and cowardly. After all, who is more selfish: the one who avoids crime for the sake of society, or the one who avoids crime for the sake of not going to jail? Their behavior is exactly the same, but their intentions are not. And intentions matter. The same idea applies to child-rearing. Kids can be raised to be altruistic without threats of punishment and promises of rewards.
It's interesting you make this statement in the form of a question. Are you advocating that all punishment is bad, or just unnecessary? Because you also say that the threat of punishment is bad. Whether or not you think it's just that spanking is bad or all types, you are asking whether someone is more selfish for not committing crimes for the betterment of society of because they're afraid of repercussions.
Well, let me pose it to you this way or rather ask this question also firstly. What is time-out and do you think that is wrong also? Because essentially, going to jail is a form of time-out for members of society that don't adhere to laws that are judged to be fair for all of that society. So, are kids that aren't spanked, yet put in time-out and grow up to fear going to jail, selfish as well? You pose the question as if these are the only two reasons and it seems based on some utopian society ideal, where most people would never commit crime for the sake of society because they've not been spanked. Are you stating that people that don't commit crime for reason one, never think about not going to jail also as if they're mutually exclusive? Some people, like myself don't commit crimes for both reasons. Neither do I want to be a detriment to society, but I'm also fearful of going to prison, but it has nothing to do with corporal punishment. And I was spanked as a child. I wouldn't consider myself selfish and cowardly just because you assume that spanking creates hordes and legions of cowards.
Laws were intially put into place for the betterment of society, but also to DETER people from making the poor decisions that would land them in trouble. All forms of punishment are meant to deter a certain behavior. That is the way our animal minds are programmed. No matter if it's spanking, timeout, taking away of television or toys, it sticks in our minds that we shouldn't do that behavior again and that is our main motivation growing up. Laws work the same way once we are fully grown.
If you believe in non-spanking punishments, then realize that they also instill a fear of doing that behavior again. If you don't believe in punishment of those levels, then I'd like to see you explain the moral ethics of society to a 2 year old; or even try to just stick them in timeout and let them understand why they're in there thoroughly. Because your 12 year old doesn't go shoplifting because they so respect your parenting skills and ethics or because they don't want to be grounded makes almost no difference. What matters is that they know it's wrong to do that and that you can be punished for it by going to jail when they get older.
yeah and now since we've got prisons housing millions of people and crime generally under control (comparatively) we're looking at how to actually REFORM people. not just locking them up to let the outside world get rid of them, but actually making them better aswell. and to do, we have to address their core problems, which came from enviornment, culture, and PARENTS. treating you child like a dog and hitting them ("no! stop it! good boy...") to bend them into a certain way to act is no healthy. on a slightly related note, look at acholhol age limits. in the UK (and america? i dont know, never been) binge drinking is a horrible problem. people go out every weekend and drink themselves into all states, from constant fights to having to go to hospital. this is because the law of drinking when youre 18+ only. it makes kids rebel against the laws, they see it as taboo and act out. while in countries like france where drinking is a lot more cultured and a way of life, when kids reach 18 they couldnt care less about getting wasted for their birthday... because theyve come to their own deicision and no one is forcing anything on them. 
Log in to comment