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Sony Won't Refund PS4 User Who Lost $600 From Hack [Update]

PlayStation firm only offering $150 in PSN credit; Account will be banned if dispute is raised with bank.

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Update: Sony's escalation team has decided to pay a full refund, in this case. It is unclear whether the company will make any broader changes to its refund policies.

Original Story Follows

Questions have been raised over the standard of Sony's customer services after it was discovered that the victim of a PlayStation 4 hack would not be fully refunded the $600 that was stolen from him.

"The Sony representative told me that they are only permitted to refund up to $150"

Reddit user Kadjar

A Reddit user, going by the name Kadjar, explained that he awoke on Wednesday morning with a series of email alerts stating that about $600 of content had been purchased through his account. He also discovered that his PlayStation 4 has been deactivated from PSN and another system, of which the location is unknown, has seized control as the primary system on the account.

Having spoken to Sony customer services on several occasions throughout the day, his criticisms of its response was summarized accordingly:

  • Sony will only refund $150 of the $600 that was taken.
  • The money will be in PSN credit, and not refunded into the bank.
  • If the user escalates the payment dispute with his bank, his account will be banned.
  • If his account is banned, his purchased licences for games, such as The Last of Us Remastered, will be wiped.
  • If the licences are wiped, there is no way of restoring them.

The user's PlayStation 4 cannot be designated as the primary console for another 6 months, meaning it is locked out of the account until then.

If a PlayStation 4 loses its place as the primary console, users must wait six months to reverse the policy.
If a PlayStation 4 loses its place as the primary console, users must wait six months to reverse the policy.

Readers on Reddit have voiced outrage at what they consider poor protection from account hacks. Others have urged that this story highlights how important it is that users protect their account with a very strong password, due to the lack of protection should something go wrong.

GameSpot has contacted Sony to discuss the matter or provide some clarification.

Kadjar has published images of his online chat with Sony customer services, and highlights three other cases where users have complained about similar issues.

His post reads:

"This morning, I started receiving emails indicating a number of purchases on my PSN account. As the transactions came in, one-by-one, it became immediately clear that my account had been hacked. I immediately logged into PSN and removed my card from the account, changed my email and password, and simultaneously launched support chats with both Sony and my bank.

"The Sony representative told me that they are only permitted to refund transactions of up to $150. He also informed me that I could dispute the charges with my bank, but by doing so, my account would be banned from PSN. As a result, I would permanently lose all of my purchases, including the Last of Us Remastered.

"He also informed me that my existing PS4 had been deactivated from the network this morning, and that a new one had been activated. When I asked him to deactivate that new, mystery PS4, he said he could not. I then turned on my PS4, logged in with my new credentials, and attempted to activate my PS4 with my account, but it informed me that I could not activate it as long as there was another PS4 bound to my account.

"I called customer support, hoping for some clarification. The agent informed me that there is indeed a refund investigation underway, but that it will be limited to $150, and that it would be credited to my PSN wallet, not my bank account.

"Furthermore, my account will not be able to activate a new system for 6 months, per Sony policy. I'm completely locked out of my own account until that date. I then asked about what would happen if I got my bank to reverse the charges, and he informed me that it would result in a banned account. I asked if there would be any way to restore my purchases, and he told me that there would not be, but I 'only have the Last of Us and a couple of the monthly free deal games,' so it's not a big deal."

Several Reddit users have offered Kadjar copies of their games, which he has thanked them for, but declined.

"My goal here is bring attention to a few of Sony's bad customer service policies in the hopes that they'll change them," he said.

Got a news tip or want to contact us directly? Email news@gamespot.com

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waahahah

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This was completely overblown, if you read the transcript with the help desk he even states that they can give a maximum refund of $150 into the wallet. He proceeds to say he needs the transactions reversed, and the support says ok, and several lines later, it will take time for the changes to post to the BANK.


Obviously this is a knee jerk reaction to the refund solution, not the second solution. It infuriating dealing with someone reading from a script but you need to get through all of it first.

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lonewolf315

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Also $150 is the maximum you can have in your playstation wallet which is probably all the poor customer service rep is authorized to do.

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shipwreckers

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Well in an effort to stop the mindless bickering here (I know, fat chance right???), here is an update from the actual Reddit page:

"I received a call from an Escalation Analyst at Sony today! He let me know that they had performed an investigation regarding my account, and concluded that my credentials had become compromised. The IP was traced to somewhere in Europe (he didn't specify). He let me know that Sony would make sure that my account was taken care of. He also assured me that the Sony HQ had been made aware of my situation, and that they'll be examining the details to see if there ought to be a change to their policies. "

So, apparently Sony realized how much PR backlash they're getting and "escalated" the problem. Whether you love or hate Reddit, you can't deny its power for public exposure.

I've had my own run-ins with dumb Sony support (and many other companies for that matter). It's not uncommon for there to be ignorance in support personnel (ESPECIALLY at lower levels). But, typically if you scream loud enough (this time via Reddit backlash), they typically come to grips with the gravity of the situation. I'm just glad this guy was actually able to get someone higher up to objectively look at the situation rather than being stuck with half-assed "solutions" to the problem.

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lonewolf315

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<< LINK REMOVED >> That would be because the dumb support people are the lower levels are just regular people reading off of scripts. It's also not uncommon for companies to outsource their customer support to third party call centers. Which is why if you have a problem they can't solve you can take it up the chain until you find someone that can. The frontline customer service person typically has very little authority to do anything. They're pretty much just there to deal with the small problems so the higher ups only have to deal with the bigger issues.

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redskinStu

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There are lots of things about this story that don't ring true. But who am I to question Gamespot's investigation.

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Staranime010

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**** You SONY!

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Kiririnshi

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The story is weird because i have my ps3 and 2 ps4 linked to the same account and didnt have any problem to link the 3 accounts so the guy is lying because probably he did the same over and over again claiming my account was hacked i want a refund from sony and after that he will complain to the bank.

That doesnt look like a big deal but the problem is the guy downloaded 600 dollars in contents he wanted a refund from sony of 600 dollars and he was about to go to the bank claiming a hacked account in wich case he would end with 600 dollars games for free and he was xpecting sony would refund him 600 dollars for nothing but when sony mention the banning he got scared and started saying "can i at least get the games from the hacked account" wich obviously is weird because he was trying to get the games again and he sold the other ps4

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Xboticon

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I think the reddit user is lying. His posts are extremely cheesy. He doesn't provide any proof and he doesn't understand the policies.


First of all, there was nothing wrong with Sony's policies regarding the incident. The Sony rep did exactly what they're supposed to do with a person who calls, claiming their account was stolen with no proof.


This guy could've purchased $600 worth of content on a PS4 and then moved his account to a new PS4 just to get a refund. The reason why the Sony rep stated that they would ban his account if he went to the bank is simply because if Sony had to refund $600 and the guy still had his games he would be getting $600 worth of free content. So his comment about policies doesn't make sense.


Then Kadjar conveniently updated his reddit post claiming that Sony is giving him his account back which means the investigation wasn't done before. This contradicts what he posted earlier.


He's lying or Sony simply changed his account back to the original PS4 it was on because they did an investigation or simply to avoid the drama. I also think he is lying because he could be trying to get Sony to help him steal an account. That is why Sony has these policies in the first place as well as every other company. An IP address doesn't confirm that his account was comprimised and it doesn't rule out the possibility that he could be the one trying to steal the account.



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DevilsaintKLS

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I would get the refund from my bank, have my accont banned, sell my PS4 and buy an X-Box One....just because of poor customer service

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Sabinsnake

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Xbox CS is worse, it took them an hour or so to finally cancel my XBL subscription for X360, they kept offering me different subscription deals and I refused evey one of em. XBL is a ripoff, even at $35 a month when you only use online play, Netflix and none the other features. MS doesn't even own Netflix, but yet if you have a subscription with Netflix, you have to have a XBL subscription to use Netflix on X360 and Xbone, which to me is BS. with PS3 and PS4, you don't have to have PS+ to access Netflix and the other features, just online play you do.

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Xboticon

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Nice try. This happens on Xbox Live and Microsoft does the same thing. Are you being sacastic or are you that dumb?


It's a great thing Xbox One is failling.

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TomBranch

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> PC ftw, we dont have to deal with such asshats.

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JTB_Pred

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >>

wow you're blatantly a fanboy..

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Xboticon

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I can't believe that I came back here and still I find desperate Xbox fanboys trying to use this as a way to desperately make Microsoft look good despite the fact that this happens on Xbox Live and Microsoft does this exact same thing. Microsoft's customer service reps are the same. They don't have the authority to do everything. They're simply people answering phones. They can't give out $600 just because someone calls and complains about an account that may or may not have been stolen.


I also find it hilarious how anyone could say Microsoft has great customer service despite the fact that Microsoft lost a lawsuit because they refused to offer refunds to people who had bricked Xbox 360s due to the RROD which Microsoft knew about and launched anyways.

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Cyber_Akuma

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Ouch, not cool Sony, not cool.


Though personally, I bet this is an issue of him being forced to talk to some low-level customer service peon who isn't allowed to deviate from the script and was never meant for such extreme cases.

In any case though, Sony will probably be forced to relent now that it made news and will be a PR nightmare. Though I would hope that isn't the only reason they would relent.

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MikeWolfman

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<< LINK REMOVED >>

[b]low-level customer service peon who isn't allowed to deviate from the script and was never meant for such extreme cases.[/b]


Sounds like admins on the Xbox complains forum about bans, always the same scripted bs. They didn't care that one guy was apparently on tour with the army when something happened.

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chrisangelo2k7

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And that's mainly why I've always been with Microsoft. Proud owner of an original Xbox, a 360, and Xbox One, and I've never ever had a problem. Their customer service is professional. Not to mention Sony's servers have a notorious history of cyber attacks, and hackers break through their system seemingly so easily. Their system is just that vulnerable.

I will never buy a Sony console. They might have some good exclusives, but so does the Xbox. There will always be unhappy gamers in both parties. Both the PS4 and the Xbox One are equally powerful and unique, but I feel safer with Microsoft.

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Sabinsnake

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<< LINK REMOVED >> nobody is safe online. government computers were hacked not too long ago by China and classified info on our new fighter jets were stolen, among other things. so, you can stop blaming Sony for having weak security now. oh, and don't forget that X360 has a notorious history of having a 54.2% failure rate, unlike the playstation, which is why after 4 RRODs in under 2 years, I didn't buy the Xbone and even the Xbone has problems of it's own. if you want a game console that has quality hardware that doesn't break down so often, Sony is the way to go!

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YamiPrem

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Good for you.

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SSJTroly

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<< LINK REMOVED >>Yeaaaa... Rare "hacks" like this is not a reason to over pay for crappier hardware and software.

It's sheep like you that will one day cause going to the airport to be the equivalent of a prison r*pe.
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Kalaxus

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> hardware, software and cost are all about equal. it all boils down to customer service in the end and Sony has always had god awful customer service. Just ask anyone that had issues while playing Star Wars Galaxies. Plus Xbox has Halo

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lonewolf315

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> SOE's customer support and the PSN customer support would likely be two different things. Not to mention Galaxies was what? Over a decade ago? SOE doesn't even exist anymore.

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SSJTroly

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> Ps4 has better hardware, Xbox has more software (more isn't better when most is used to restrict access to hardware), and the cost being the same is what makes it messed up the most.
If Microsoft to charge people to breathe while using their software, they would.
You are paying Microsoft to make money and not getting anything in return.

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LancerVI

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> Yeah, but they don't. That's a straw man argument.


I understand you like the PS4, so do I. However, Sony has demonstrated, over and again, crappy customer service and terrible protection of it's network.

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Nowitzki06

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >>

I have had tons of Sony products and tons of Microsoft products. Microsoft is not that much better if you actually have to deal with them..... RROD!

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UziKill

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> I always had very good service with Microsoft. One case I remember was when I got the infamous ring of death problem on my 360. Called them and 2 days later I received a new console with a shipping box to return my old one. And I was out of warranty. You might not have been lucky that's all

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HuSSaR83

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I have like 6 games I bought thru PSN and this article made me realize thats the last purchase from there. From now on I'll buy only physical copies and might not re-subscribe my PSN Plus if they dont change their policies. This is ridiculous

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Cyber_Akuma

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<< LINK REMOVED >> The fact that your games are tired to an online account who'se restrictions, what games you can play and on what systems, limits, etc are on the whim of the people running it, and that your purchases essentially become worthless when the service or console is no loner supported, is the reason I NEVER buy digital games for ANY console if a physical purchase option is avaliable.

Many times the physical purchase is even cheaper if you aren't getting the game shortly after launch.

Seriously, on PCs digital downloads make sense, on consoles they do not. There is literally nothing to gain but a lot to lose due to the fact that consoles are a closed platform and the official store is your ONLY source of software.

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RighteousNixon

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> 6 months ago, I would have agreed with you. Now, I disagree. Sales have gotten much better with digital games. When you can pick up digital copies of retail games for 5-8 bucks, its definitely worth it. I used to never buy digital games, simply for the resale value of the physical title. I made over $3500 when I sold my original Xbox and PS2 game collection and I could easily get around $5k for my PS3 and 360 game collection. that being said, when games drop to 5-8 bucks, its definitely worth forgoing the physical copy.

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TTB1

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Sony is acting like gangsters and siding with criminal hackers? This just made up my mind, I was going to buy a PS4 for the upcoming game, Bloodborne. But nothing is worth getting my account hack and money stolen. I bet Sony loses more than they gain by this decision.

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lonewolf315

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<< LINK REMOVED >> It's every company's policy to investigate claims like this. The customer service rep is the only person at Sony that actually talked to and he's probably working at a third party call center reading off a script and doesn't have the power or authority to do a refund in excess of $150 which is the maximum amount of funds you can hold at one time in your playstation store wallet.


But hey. Sure. Jump to conclusions. You obviously hate Sony too much to even bother clicking the provided links and doing a little reading. I'm sure you'll feel right at home on Xbox until the same thing happens to you over there and the customer service people react the exact same way because it's company policy for pretty much every single company out there.

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TTB1

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> I do not hate Sony. I've always loved their products, and have their $8000.00 4k XBR tv on my wall. You're the one that comes across like either a fanboy or rep of Sony. Wrong is wrong, and to threaten someone that's been defrauded, that if they do anything about it they will be further punished, can almost be criminal all by itself. I've owned both consoles in all previous iterations, and have been waiting for a Sony exclusive worth me buying a PS4. Bloodborne was it. As is, I've still not bought it. Their decision has cost them a sale of at least 1 console and 1 game.

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oldtobie

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Those five bullets, lol...

Wow, Sony sucks.

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RD_21

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Don't gameshare with stranger.

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PBanJ96

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Switch to Xbox, Microsoft is more understandable. Sony doesn't like Americans.

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Tbalestrini

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<< LINK REMOVED >> But then you own a Xbox so you still lose. All joking aside it is a crappy move on Sony's part but there might be more to the story then we know.


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lonewolf315

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> The person didn't even talk to Sony. They talked to a customer service rep who said they would put it through for investigation.


You know.


What every other company will do.

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uXmann

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I had a similar experience, though only one game was bought using my account. I talked to them on both phone and through numerous emails, and never got a refund.

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MyNameIsTrout

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Like some others said, it might be helpful if you clarified the fact that it seems Sony has/plans to sort this all out. The fact that 'Malcolm' even mentioned the account ban policy was to warn the Reddit OP against going through his bank to cancel the charges. You're clear about the minor mistakes Sony made, but not the fact that they ended up taking care of the problem, seemingly within 24 hours.

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Cyber_Akuma

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<< LINK REMOVED >> "We will give you $15 in PSN funds, if you despite the charges you are banned" Isn't what I would call "taking care of the problem"

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MyNameIsTrout

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It seems like maybe you didn't read the attached support dialogue? They offered $150, not $15, to start with. When the customer clarified that he was a victim of fraud, the service representative warned him not to go through his bank (which would result in a ban), and instead go through Sony to receive a full refund. The other examples posted were all people who disputed the charges through their bank, a clear violation of Sony policy, just like any other digital media distributor.

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Cyber_Akuma

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Actually, that was a typo, I meant to say $150. Sorry about that. the rest still stands though, just pretend I said $150 instead of $15 there, since that is what I meant to say.

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MyNameIsTrout

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I think it makes sense for a digital media distributor to keep policies in place that protect them from customers who download media then just cancel the charges at the bank. If you read the customer service transcript, the service rep. was merely ensuring the customer was aware of the policy. The initial offer was $150 but when the customer clarified that the purchases were fraudulent, the rep. made it clear that all the charges would be reversed, pending further info.

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Cyber_Akuma

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<< LINK REMOVED >> You misunderstood. I don't have a problem with the general policy, but how the article claimed there are no exceptions and they were completely inflexible about it in such extreme situations.


The article also makes no mention that all charges were reversed.

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Cyber_Akuma

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<< LINK REMOVED >> You misunderstood. I don't have a problem with that general policy, the issue is more that the article said that are no exceptions in place and how inflexible they were about it.


There is no mention here that Sony changed it.

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