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Xbox One's Offline Pass Is an Ill-Conceived Tax

Tom Mc Shea warns that Microsoft might be killing itself rather than the used-games market.

1645 Comments
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Microsoft spent an hour explaining why the Xbox One should be the centerpiece of your living room entertainment experience. However, in just one sentence, it may have destroyed its upcoming console's appeal as a gaming platform. Used games, an aspect of this industry that has thrived for decades, may come with an extra cost in the future. Apparently, you may no longer buy a dust-coated game or lend your favorite offering to a friend without throwing money Microsoft's way. The Xbox One is attempting to squash the pre-owned market, and if such a detrimental tax is implemented, it will have disastrous results for the sustained health of Microsoft's third console.

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In a statement to Wired, Microsoft stated that "on the new Xbox, all game discs are installed to the HDD to play." Once the game is tied to an account, if another person wants to play it on their system, they will have to pay an undisclosed fee. Microsoft did say it will reveal its used-games plan in the future, but examining the facts as we now know them, this policy seems inspired by the online passes that some current generation games require for connected play. Microsoft is essentially implementing an offline pass. And how could its unannounced plan alleviate this excessive burden? Maybe Microsoft will let you play off the disc for a limited time before you're forced to shell out money, or maybe every game will be required to have a demo. Either way, the used-game, rental, and lending markets will dry up.

The Xbox One is an entertainment curiosity rather than the next video game revolution.

This draconian policy has been slowly building for the last decade. As digital games have become more prevalent, so too have the measures to limit their post-retail distribution. Xbox Live Arcade and PlayStation Network games are tied to the accounts that purchased them, and Steam users have dealt with a similar barrier for years. And the mobile market, which has been heralded as the future by so many, is in the same situation. The idea of a game being playable only by the person who first spent money on it has existed long enough that such a move on Microsoft's part should be expected. However, this is the first time any company has tried to destroy the resell market for disc-based games, and it's that distinction that's so important.

People have long embraced the used market in all forms of media. Whether we're letting a friend read our copy of The Catcher in the Rye, browsing the used-CD rack for vintage Pearl Jam, or picking up a cheap copy of Jurassic Park III to see raptors talk, we've become accustomed to borrowing or cheaply buying once-loved entertainment. And this has been a core aspect of gaming for longer than most gamers have been alive. We like the idea that once we buy a physical product, we own it. So it's baffling that Microsoft would ignore years of consumer tenancies with this extortionist tax. As long as games are on a disc, people will expect to be able to lend them to friends without having to pay Microsoft for this privilege.

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Video games can be expensive, much more so than other media, so shelling out $60 for a dozen hours of entertainment is a tough pill to swallow. We've found ways of enjoying our favorite pastime without going broke. Borrowing some games while purchasing others has been a practice of many people for years, and there's no reason such a philosophy couldn't serve both consumers and publishers going forward. Microsoft is burning bridges if it decides to enact an offline pass. It will create an infrastructure that is even more punishing for new intellectual properties. People will be less likely to try an untested franchise if they have to pay full price for it, so Microsoft is just pushing the industry further into the innovation-be-damned mentality that has been a plague the last few years.

Ultimately, consumers determine the success or failure of any company.The importance of catering to people with money to spend cannot be overstated, and Microsoft is hurting that relationship, possibly irreparably so. There is no way to spin this extra fee so that it's more palatable for the buying public. This is unabashed greed, pure and simple, and the defining aspect of the Xbox One. Microsoft wants to be everything to everyone, your one-stop shop for television, music, movies, Internet access, and video games. However, such integration isn't worth emptying your wallet for. It's not worth giving up your rights as a consumer. A disc or cartridge is ours to do with what we choose, and until Microsoft acknowledges this fact, the Xbox One is an entertainment curiosity rather than the next video game revolution.

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stealthyninja81

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really not a smart move, PS4 has no online connection at all and isn't doing this. so far, that's where my money is going.

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Ocarinaoftime83

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@stealthyninja81 Yeah also Sony hasn't said if they might implement a similar fee to used games, they only said you can play used games on there console.

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Edited By kessel21

@Ocarinaoftime83 @stealthyninja81 as i predicted long ago: both systems are going to block used games. not the systems outright but the developers. no way EA blocks xbox one users pay and not PS4 - they'll force you to tie that game to your ID on either system and if you rent a game, you'll have to pay full price. of course, a competitor to EA could require that you don't lock your game to your ID on the PS4 but you're locked into that no matter what on the xbox. what a joke. i use gamefly to play a ton of games i wouldn't normally play and if i like the game (or developer) and based on reviews, i'll probably buy the sequel. now shit like crysis, dishonored, dead space, mass effect won't see the light of day in my house. i'm not paying good money for mediocre games.

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kessel21

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@evaneself @kessel21 the GTA series. i enjoyed badco 1, was disappointed by badco 2. i loved battlefield 1942 on the PC and have played BF3 on ps3. i'm not a huge online MP fan but that's one i do play. i enjoy co-cop games, so i enjoyed the rock band games. ghost recon was decent (but not great - i purchased it based on previous rainbow 6 games). i also bought borderlands 2 and enjoyed the length of that game. Red Dead Revolver was great.

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evaneself

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@kessel21 What are the good games for you? Give me a top. Youmade mevery curious.

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carbonFibreOpti

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Edited By carbonFibreOpti

@stealthyninja81 Don't be fooled. You need an online connection for about 30% of the core features to work, at least from what they showed. Same really goes for the XB1. And for all we know Sony might be hiding the fact that every so often you need to connect online to play games, like the XB1. I'd wait until after E3 or TGS to decide.


Edit:

Forgot to mention that backwards compatibility requires a streaming connection (read: FAST connection) and the Gaikai does as well. Not to mention that you MAY be charged a fee to play your old PS3 games (say, they re-sell them all for $2-5 a pop). The reason for all the recent HD collections on the PS3 was to re-sell PS2 games rather than let you play them in BC mode (which they removed just prior to the first wave of HD packs). It's not far fetched to imagine all games will get the HD treatment and be resold.

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stealthyninja81

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@carbonFibreOpti yeah, I'm definitely going to wait at least a month if not more to decide whether Im going to buy a new console at all.

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vicke32

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Do it MC, but add a time-limit, say, 3 months? After that it's hard to get a copy of a game.

People who say this stuff is of the devil obviously either get paid or weren't born around 2006.

At least you don't have DRM, or cd-keys.

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gino_pachino

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I like how it look like

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javalino

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suddenly Wiiu seems a little less crap

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gralvader

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Edited By gralvader

A bit off topic, Microsoft needs to understand that they can no longer charge us to play online. They basically want us to spend 60 usd a year for live so we can have acces to netflix or other crappy services which we may already pay for. I really don't understand why I can't use internet explorer without paying for live, that my friend is pure greed!With the xbox one thay have gone completely insane, I will vote with my wallet and will not be getting this expensive cable box. Remember Microsoft, we pay your bills, you work for us! We do not work for you, treat us with the respect we deserve!

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THizzle7XU

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Edited By THizzle7XU

@gralvader So then stop paying for online. They CAN continue charging for online because people like you still PAY FOR IT. They could care less about your little online rant if the money keeps coming out of your wallet. Xbox is a luxury entertainment device. Not a necessity for life like you make it out to be. If it frustrates you that IE on Xbox costs money, then use another device for internet. Pretty simple.

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Celtic_34

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Edited By Celtic_34

Microsoft has twisted it to their own advantage where you aren't actually buying a game. It isn't yours. You are buying a licensed copy of the game where they still have the right to do what they want with it. They've then taken that advantage and turned it into something totally greedy.

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Albhedhq

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@Celtic_34 Which I'm pretty sure isn't legal in my country. Our law dictates that once we buy something, we become the sole owner of said product, and we can do with it what we want.

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Celtic_34

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@Albhedhq @Celtic_34 they've creatively made it so you buy said game. you need their online service to play it. you sign up for said service and have to agree to their rules. they then charge you fees on top of fees for said product you already bought. taxation without representation.

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Albhedhq

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@Celtic_34 @Albhedhq We'll see how it works out over here, so far I'm not convinced that this is gonna' go over very well. And I haven't even started about that NEW TV experience they've talked about, which is also something I don't see happening in my country.

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garosa00

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as soon as this comes out someone is going to figure how to pirate the shit out of it.

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Edited By Celtic_34

The issue is ms will have exclusive content and developers and stuff that makes it impossible to use anything else. This isn't about used games with microsoft. It's about their own self interests to a totally greedy level with no regard for how many other people they are screwing over because of their own greed.

microsoft has completely brainwashed people to the point where i'm not sure anyone even gets it anymore. most people dont care. will just buy it. more money in ms's pockets to control things and change the way people think and do things. this isnt about hardcore gamers. that is just a small percentage of what ms is going for. their target isnt hardcore gamers.


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salvucci91

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lol EA just announces that they are doing away with Online Pass... only to form a partnership with Microsoft almost a week later.. who will feature an Online Pass tax on EVERY Xbox game ! I hate this world.

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Skakruk

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S***,why should i pay more and more for playing games ??? WTF ? I understand paying devs, but paying microcrap each time I WANT to play - is so stupid that I can't imagine the depth of stupidity and sheer desire to f**k gamers. It is really the truth - I don't believe that universe is infinite, I believe that human stupidity is infinite.

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Katz

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A disc or cartridge is ours to do with what we choose...this statement is what has company and consumer pitted against each other...Microsoft, EA and others have lost sight of that fact. We buy a disc with said media and it's ours to play and give away or even sale. But we cannot copy for distribution. A company should only be able sell an item once anything else is a service. A game is not a service.

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Skakruk

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microcrap - bye bye!!!!

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MrFreehuggs

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XBox One(more payment please)

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Edited By horizonwriter

"Video games can be expensive, much more so than other media, so shelling out $60 for a dozen hours of entertainment is a tough pill to swallow." A new movie on blu-ray typically costs $15-20 and the movie generally only gives you 2 hours worth of entertainment. Considering the production costs of games today, $60 for 12 hours worth of entertainment (entertainment that typically isn't the exact same each time you play through it, unlike a movie which doesn't change at all between viewings) is not that much.

How bad this turns out to be depends on how much Microsoft will charge. If you buy a used game for $20 and MS charges you a $1 fee, you're still $39 under what you'd have paid for a new game. I'm more curious about what percentage of this fee makes it back to the developers since it's their profit margins that are the biggest casualty of the used games market.

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adub424

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Edited By adub424

@horizonwriter Good point if part of the fee went to the developers I would be happy to pay. We all vote with our money it would be nice to know the right people are seeing rewards for their work.

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Xx_Kares_xX

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Edited By Xx_Kares_xX

@adub424 @horizonwriter It doesn't matter if the fee is one CENT. The product has already been paid for once, Microsoft already got their money for that disc that was sold, and once it has been paid for, they no longer have the right to ask for more money for the product. If I go out and buy a football, and then decide to give it to a friend, the manufacturer of that football doesn't get MORE money from the person who I gave the ball to before he can use it. It's freakin' asinine, and I think it can literally be defined as thievery on Microsoft's part.

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Xx_Kares_xX

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Edited By Xx_Kares_xX

@horizonwriter @Xx_Kares_xX @carbonFibreOpti @adub424

I already knew all that and I wasn't as clear as I could have been. I'm aware of the added cost, but New Wii games and portable games still sell for a cheap $40 price point which I find more than affordable, even $50 is more bearable than $60 (and now perhaps $70).Honestly I think all the attention put into graphics on games is a waste of money anyway but admit that's a matter of taste. The best way to explain what I mean about managing their money better is to compare Tomb Raider and Dark Souls. Dark Souls sold a fraction of what Tomb Raider did but was considered a success financially, while Tomb Raider sold a crap load more and was considered a financial failure because Square didn't manage their money well at all. It doesn't help that the AAA developers are trying to improve their profits by building and then developing on even MORE expensive consoles, meaning they are just digging themselves a deeper hole that they will eventually stumble into. Not to mention that it has been proven for a very long time that the majority of new game sales happen in the first week anyway, so used game sales may be rising but that doesn't necessarily mean that new game sales are falling as much as you think. A single used game can be sold multiple times (thus contributing to the data) but that doesn't mean that any of those people who bought used were ever going to buy the game new in the first place. In fact, I bet if used game sales were to magically stop happening, new game sales wouldn't go up, there would just be less games bought in general because people can't afford them. I hope that cleared things up a bit.

Honestly I don't care that the publishers are losing money because they would have pulled all this greedy bullcrap even if they were thriving. I'm kind of hoping for another crash so that they start from scratch, maybe go back to creating games on hardware no more complex than the SNES so that they can actually be creative with their game design instead of focusing on all the same cinematics bullcrap, but once again I admit that's a huge matter of taste.

I apologize for the rudeness I have displayed in these messages and I greatly appreciate this conversation, I have found it very interesting.

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horizonwriter

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@Xx_Kares_xX @carbonFibreOpti @adub424 @horizonwriter How exactly can they make these products better at more affordable prices? I've said this time and again. In the past you could buy a new NES game for $50. New SNES games could cost over $80, and that was in the early 90's. Adjusted for inflation we're looking at a range of $80-130 today and these were games that didn't have motion capture or voice acting, so you weren't paying additional actors and/or performers for that aspect. Now we have games that do have mo-cap and solid voice acting, along with the fact that it takes several thousand man hours and entire teams to develop a game today on very expensive software and hardware. Some games have budgets along the lines of mid-sized movies, and games don't get anywhere near the level of distribution and sales that movies enjoy. We get all of this for $60 - a price that many complain about. In short, it takes far more resources and money to create a game today and yet they're still cheaper to purchase than they were over 20 years ago. The difference - it ain't mommy and daddy's money anymore. Poor us...

This took off in the direction of licensing but underneath it all it's a numbers game. The simple fact is new game sales are down and have been on the decline for quite a while. Without a decent number of new game sales studios can not survive, period. The used game market cuts into that deeply. Yes the used game market existed before Game Stop but it wasn't the beast that it is now. Things have gotten out of hand and the entire industry is suffering because of it. You say you don't like the current system? Given all the info that's been dropped on you, can you do more than just vent about it and insult people that don't agree with you and actually suggest another one (and not one that just benefits you as a consumer)?

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Xx_Kares_xX

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@adub424 @Xx_Kares_xX @carbonFibreOpti @horizonwriter Microsoft has already talked about integrating that as well, so that kind of takes the bite out of your cynicism (unless of course you meant what you said literally and not sarcastically, in which case I'm sorry, it's hard to tell through text sometimes)

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adub424

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@Xx_Kares_xX @carbonFibreOpti @adub424 @horizonwriter Perhaps they should do what other companies do with their intellectual properties. Game companies should sell marketing time to be integrated into games say every 30 minutes or so when they are in syndication. That way like a rerun show or Star Wars playing on Spike TV they see a return for those utilizing their copyrighted goods. I personally would hate that model but hey if it saves you a few bucks you should be happy. Remember Game companies are not trying to impress gamers they are trying to impress people with money in their pockets.

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Xx_Kares_xX

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@carbonFibreOpti @Xx_Kares_xX @adub424 @horizonwriter

It's not thievery, used games were around long before gamestop was x.x. If buying a license is a garuntee that they will hold up their end and keep servers running then servers should NEVER be shut down right? Otherwise they aren't holding up their end of the bargain with that way of thinking.

Not to mention that I (like a lot of other people) don't care at ALL about online gaming or matchmaking, meaning we are paying for services we don't even want, another huge flaw in the industries marketing scheme. I don't have a 360 so no I'm not paying for xbox live gold because that's just another form of microsoft being greedy. The wii and the ps3 are both doing just fine without mandatory monthly payments for their internet services, and so is the PC with the exception of MMO's, and even a lot of those are going free to play with microtransactions being their main source of income, so that is yet another flawed arguement on your end.

The ea giving you a copy of the game for the proof of license just seems stupid on their end x.x but I can't feel sorry for them on that level because they are just as bad if not worse than microsoft when it comes to ripping people off.


Used game sales don't hurt the game industry NEARLY as much as they'd like to let you believe. In fact it's been proven countless times that withotu gamestop most game developers wouldn't be NEARLY as successful as they are. Look at all of the deals they make with gamestop trying to give exclusive day one content to boost sales and other such marketing ploys where they actually RELY on gamestop, they aren't hindered by it as much as they like to cry about.


Besides, if they made better products at more affordable prices (Which CAN be done, they just refuse too) Then there would be less emphasis on a secondhand market to begin with.

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carbonFibreOpti

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Edited By carbonFibreOpti

@Xx_Kares_xX @carbonFibreOpti @adub424 @horizonwriter In the case of the original sale, there's a receipt proving a license was sold. The warrantee for the game is tied to that license, as well as all rights for the developer and publisher to honor their end of the bargain and make the game playable. The idea of online passes is supportive of this notion. When the first sale was made, EA or whatever had to guarantee their online services would be online and working so the game's features would work. They don't need to do that for a secondhand sale, unless the second buyer decides to buy a license and the services that come with it. And oddly enough, the original buyer can still use these services as well even though he doesn't have a copy of the game to play. I've bought 360 versions of games like BF3, given the game to a friend, and then faxed my receipt to EA to get a digital download version for PC. You know what? Totally worked, because they already know I paid for a license.

Now the PS2 may have been pre-online services era but the concept holds true. If the disc explodes your PS2 drive the publisher has to reimburse you for the damages, etc etc. Well, that's extreme, but here's my point. In the PS2 days, publishers DIDN'T CARE because they DID get their money out of you. Now they have to host matchmaking servers for PS3 and PC (you pay for that with Live Gold, if you didn't know that). They have to host the whole copy of the game for download. There's more cost to them riding on the licensing system, and they really can't afford to be lenient anymore. They need their profits to expand the company, and used sales are starting to encroach dangerously upon those acceptable levels of profit.

Used game sales are legitimately theft of profits anyway. GameStop makes 100% profit on those sales via loophole in the law. In some state counties it's ILLEGAL to sell used software because of them. Really, I'm surprised the games industry didn't take action sooner like the movies and music industries did.

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Xx_Kares_xX

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Edited By Xx_Kares_xX

@carbonFibreOpti @Xx_Kares_xX @adub424 @horizonwriter

I'm not trolling, I'm being completely serious, the way that the industry works is completely stupid and you have to be blind not to see that. I don't approve of the license sales system, and I don't follow your way of thinking with the '15 years' comment. I could go out right now and buy any playstation 2 game I wanted used and wouldn't have to pay a 'license fee' to the creator.. the license has ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR. It doesn't matter if the license switches hands because THE LICENSE IS BOUGHT. You don't need to sell a NEW license, it is just switching hands to someone else.

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carbonFibreOpti

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@Xx_Kares_xX @carbonFibreOpti @adub424 @horizonwriter Not sure if troll or serious. The sir / madam part was just... cliche.

The fact is if you've been buying games for the last 15 years you've been approving of the license sales system. If you don't like it, then YOU are part of the problem. Stop buying games from publishers that retain physical rights. Some companies like Stardock Entertainment explicitly hand those rights over to the buyer upon purchase. Support those companies and don't pay a cent for anyone else, and you might just have a shot at owning what you buy in the future.

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Xx_Kares_xX

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Edited By Xx_Kares_xX

@carbonFibreOpti @Xx_Kares_xX @adub424 @horizonwriter That's still bullshit. Software should be able to be sold used as well. If I give my game to someone else I am ALSO giving them the license. The company should NOT still retain the rights too it. I understand all of this was originally implemented to prevent piracy, and if you use a registration code like old PC games did, it would stop that problem as only one person is using the game at a time. The obvious response to this is, "people will just hack it' the problem is.. pirates are going to pirate anyway, so shut the hell up x.x. It has nothing to do with the 'rights to the content' and everything to do with microsoft being a bunch of greedy bastards who always want more when they don't DESERVE more. Once the product has been bought (regardless of what the product is or what form it takes) it should be the consumers choice what they do with it, and rolling over and letting microsoft or any other industry take advantage of us with this bullshit is a huge part of the problem. YOU sir (or madam) ar a huge part of the problem


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carbonFibreOpti

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@Xx_Kares_xX @adub424 @horizonwriter You aren't buying a disc. You're buying a digital license, and for convenience a disc comes with that purchase. This has been how games have been officially and legally treated since the DMCA went into effect. They have all the right in the world to force you to buy a new license, so just be happy they're not making you pay full retail price.

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Edited By carbonFibreOpti

@adub424 @horizonwriter Legally part of the fee DOES have to go back to the publisher, who in turn funds the developer's next project. I'm all for more money with the publishers as that means they'll be able to take more risks on innovative new IPs.

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starcrafthenry

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Edited By starcrafthenry

So, we can be pretty sure at this point that the Xbox One will charge a fee for used games.

Sony still hasn't given a straight answer about their used game approach, but I would assume it will be a similar model to whatever the Xbox One has. Here's the article about the unspecific answer: http://www.gamespot.com/news/sony-on-ps4-used-games-we-are-going-to-do-the-right-thing-6404470

If both of those companies charge a used game fee, there's hope for the Nintendo Wii U yet.

For the record, I don't want any company to fail, just stating what I think will happen.

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decebal

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Edited By decebal

Imagine micro transactions on X1: "Xbox play game" "your credit card has been charged 99 cents"

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frankh076

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@decebal they will be adding a retro feature to the final xbone design, a slot to insert a quarter or a credit card reader to play your own games. its like putting a toll box on your bathroom stall at work and then charging for toilet paper when you get inside

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aberboy007

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i guess if i sell my car, the new owner will have to pay vauxhall a fee, seems sensible, erm NOT.

i have a tv and a sky box and a smart tv, so why would i need the same again

i dont want kinect and never will, gimme a pad and a games console, not a mish mash of the above

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adub424

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Edited By adub424

@aberboy007 You have to pay your taxes an License Fees to use your Vauxhall on the roads. If your car breaks you have to buy Vauxhall parts to repair it. You don't have to use all the features of the Xbox but if it is on you will skip changing inputs and turning on your sky box if you can get the same result by just asking the Xbox to do it.

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MikeFeeney431

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@aberboy007 Very fair point, keep it to the games.

No one cares about social shite or tv or whatever, there are better alternatives already in use.

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adub424

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Edited By adub424

@MikeFeeney431 @aberboy007 The all in one box might be a great way for kids to get their parents to buy on for them. We have all overcome the hurdle of mom and dad being purchasers of our toys. This scenario might just give Microsoft a bigger market share.

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adub424

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Like this decision is going to change their market share. I will totally give up getting ripped off by a used game store to have one box handle my cable TV and games. They get consumers to pay for Xbox Live when other consoles have free versions of the service. You will buy Xbox One you will live with the fee for used games (which will still be cheaper than new titles) and all you can do about it is give them your money and complain online.

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Celtic_34

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Edited By Celtic_34

this is such a load of crap to me. The pc is dying. blah, blah. This is basically a pc without a keyboard where microsoft owns and controls everything. your music, the tv you watch. the games you play. people will still buy it because it's easy to use. MS will charge people fees for stuff they already bought on top of fees when im already able to do all this stuff without a camera in my house and without paying fees. The hting is ms has somehow twisted it where we are thiefs and should be paying them for stuff we already bought. And we wonder why the economy is going to hell when corporations like this continue to horde and horde.


If Microsoft isn't a monopoly what are they? Why is it laws do nothing about this stuff? because ms has paid them all off?


Thing is MS isn't stupid. They will somehow bully their way into peoples homes where you have to buy it watch the stuff you want. They will make it so in order to listen to music or do anything entertainment wise you have to have this device and pay their fees.

We wonder why society is so messed up when companies like MS who are just complete losers and bullies and looked at as good people. When they aren't.

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Ceaseless001

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@Celtic_34 I say this all the damn time... thanks for the comment. It's almost laughable how they just wrap all of these things people could've been doing for years into this controlled restricted box like its a new evolution or something. I like consoles, but finally got my own PC back in 2004 and it has been my all around system for years. Everything my system already does, M$ is feeding it to the masses through this box like it's never been seen before. Xbox One is just to control and make money off of the consumer. It has been the goal of Xbox Live long ago when they were having interviews about it before the first 'original' Xbox. Damn shame.

People always talk about the PC is expensive, but if they just learn a little, they can shop right and build right and over time, save lots of money for the things M$ wants to charge you extra for. It's all there.

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drangel_jam

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I don't see people trading digital games, yet no one is stopping themselves from getting phones and iPads and PC...

Besides, there is always a way.

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AlwaysRunning

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Edited By AlwaysRunning

@drangel_jam That's rather the point. One of the main advantages that consoles have always maintained over PCs is the ability to share and trade your games; being "social," as it were. Now that Microsoft has saddled their console with all the same burdens and inconveniences as a PC--and then some--why should anyone buy it? $500 or whatever for Halo and Gears?

iPhones and PC games succeed mostly because of their great prices. Cheap stuff for the casuals, and it can't be emphasized enough how much Steam sales have contributed to keeping that platform relevant. Do you think there's any chance at all of Microsoft offering a similarly compelling price structure on their uber-DRM'd console? I sure don't think so.

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rrhammer

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Please stop using the trendy term "moving forward". That stupid catch-phrase is EVERYWHERE these days. It's old. It's lame corporate spokesman-speak.

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orangepeel1972

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I have never heard of anything so ridiculous ever. Imagine, "Can I use your truck to move some furniture?"

"Sure. But make sure you pay Ford their fee first." Or, "Can I use your strimmer to cut my hedge back?"

"Sure. But make sure you pay Black & Decker their fee first."

Microsoft have dropped the bomb on this one and will not be getting my money unless they have a major turn around and show me games that eclipse what Sony have got .

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