.:: 2008 Italian GP Thread ::.

.:: 2008 Italian GP ::.

Welcome to the 2008 Italian GP thread, where you can discuss anything to do with this weekend's race. cjek will update the thread with the latest times as they happen.

RANDOM FACT

Alberto Ascari is the only Italian driver to win the Italian GP, winning the race in '51 and '52 (Under the Formula 1 World Championship).

POINTS OF DISCUSSION

1. As we go to writing, Hamilton was handed a controversial penalty, stripping him of the race win. It is by far one of the strangest decisions ever, so how can this be justified?
2. Before throwing his car in the wall, Kimi Raikkonen showed his true form once again at Spa, something that was long overdue. If he starts performing again, can he still win the title, or is it too little too late?
3. The race also marks a year since Fernando Alonso last took the top step of a podium. Where do you feel the former World Champion's career is heading right now?
4. This race was also just one of three last year that saw Honda score points. Why have their performance dropped so much, and how do you see them performing in 2009?
5. Speaking of Honda, Toro Rosso jumped them in the constructors standings. How impressed are you by their recent form, and where do you see them in 2009?

ITV-F1 PRESENTS LIVE STREAMING OF THE ITALIAN GRAND PRIX WEEKEND: FRIDAY PRACTICES, QUALIFYING & THE RACE

DRIVER'S CHAMPIONSHIP: MATHEMATICALLY ELIMINATED

Rubens Barrichello (Belgium)
Nelson Piquet Jnr. (Belgium)
Timo Glock (Belgium)
Mark Webber (Belgium)
Fernando Alonso (Belgium)
Jarno Trulli (Belgium)
Giancarlo Fisichella (Valencia)
Adrian Sutil (Valencia)
Sebastien Bourdais (Valencia)
Jenson Button (Valencia)
David Coulthard (Valencia)
Kazuki Nakajima (Valencia)
Sebastian Vettel (Valencia)
Nico Rosberg (Valencia)
Anthony Davidson (Turkey)
Takuma Sato (Turkey)

CONSTRUCTORS CHAMPIONSHIP: MATHEMATICALLY ELIMINATED

Toyota (Belgium)
Renault (Belgium)
Red Bull (Belgium)
Williams (Belgium)
Honda (Belgium)
Toro Rosso (Valencia)
Force India (Valencia)
Super Aguri (Turkey)

I definitely think Raikkonen still has it in him, but he really needs to sort qualifying out. If he has the race pace, then why don't Ferarri fuel him slightly lighter to get him at the front. He does pretty well when he's in front, but he's having to navigate from so far back while Massa and Hamilton are often simply battling each other.

I'm not even going to discuss the Hamilton penalty, but I hope he completely anihliates the opposition next weekend if there's any justice. Not to discredit Ferarri, but that was Hamilton's race.

Toro Rosso are incredible right now, and I'm stuck as to whether or not Vettel made the right choice moving to RBR next season. Bourdais setting the fastest time in Quali 1? Allen and Brundle's silent shock sums that up. And both into Q3? Even better. But 5th and 7th in the Grand Prix is even better, and shows the team is headed in the right direction.

What I am not understanding is how Red Bull are allowed two teams. Basically Red Bull is the main team and Toro Rosso is their feeder team (the owner must be extreemly loaded to be able to do this) but Pro Drive are not allowed to enter as a customer F1 team. It seems they try to cut the costs but are actually increase them with every rule change and barrier like this. I can see safety changes obviously will allways be needed to be added if they feel the rules need changing but this is one rule I dont understand. As long as the team fullfills the requirements of safety then surely they should be allowed to buy customer cars and this would actually cut costs for the teams the customers buy from or they can develop better cars if they get a few million for them.

I hope Williams can turn this patch around as they seem to be sliding very quickly to the back of the field and I honestly could see them as last next year seeing how Force India are really increasing their budget with all the new factories they opened.

Honda will be disapointed with their form this year, it seems they are unable to get the speed in both race pace nor qualifying. It's strange as they should really be at the top as they are one of the best car manufacturers in the world and have a high pedegrie in motor sports.

I Think the BBC is purposely annoying me now.

Friday & Saturday are meant to have rain here this weekend. No news on Sunday yet.

I'm excited, my first live view of Monza.

It looked like Raikkonen or Hamilton would have the momentum going into the Italian GP. Well neither accomplished that. Massa has got the favorite, and on Ferrari's home circuit no less.

But wait, Hamilton is certainly not out. He will be on fire after that heartbreaking penalty and stewards or no, he will finish strong.

Raikkonen well sorry mate, you blew it or rather spun it (this time). Just not your season Kimi.

FP1 Times... or rather, watch and swim Practice session...

1. SUTIL Force India 1m32.842s

2. BARRICHELLO Honda 1m33.428s

3. FISICHELLA Force India 1m33.695s

4. GLOCK Toyota 1m36.800s

5. ROSBERG Williams 1m36.900s

6. ALONSO Renault 1m36.965s

7. BOURDAIS Toro Rosso 1m37.142s

8. TRULLI Toyota 1m37.214s

9. RAIKKONEN Ferrari 1m37.392s

10. VETTEL Toro Rosso 1m37.754s

11. PIQUET Renault 1m38.057s

12. COULTHARD Red Bull 1m38.303s

13. BUTTON Honda 1m39.062s

14. MASSA Ferrari 1m40.233s

15. HEIDFELD BMW no time

16. NAKAJIMA Williams no time

17. KUBICA BMW no time

18. KOVALAINEN McLaren no time

19. WEBBER Red Bull no time

20. HAMILTON McLaren no time

SOURCE: ITV-F1

ED: SUTIL FTW! Clearly at this rate, XSFX is gonna have the best predictions of the weekend.

ED: SUTIL FTW! Clearly at this rate, XSFX is gonna have the best predictions of the weekend.

Redders1989

Don't jinx it yet. Kimi will do that.

Seems it's dried out at least by the end of Practice 2. Weather's a bit spotty this time of year, eh? Raikkonen and Kubica on top.

I liked the save by Sutil, I think it was, in the gravel trap on the straight.

PRACTICE 2

Pos  Driver        Team                     Time              Laps
 1.  Raikkonen     Ferrari             (B)  1:23.861            31
 2.  Kubica        BMW Sauber          (B)  1:23.931  + 0.070   26
 3.  Heidfeld      BMW Sauber          (B)  1:23.947  + 0.086   29
 4.  Hamilton      McLaren-Mercedes    (B)  1:23.983  + 0.122   25
 5.  Rosberg       Williams-Toyota     (B)  1:24.110  + 0.249   33
 6.  Massa         Ferrari             (B)  1:24.247  + 0.386   34
 7.  Kovalainen    McLaren-Mercedes    (B)  1:24.365  + 0.504   29
 8.  Webber        Red Bull-Renault    (B)  1:24.521  + 0.660   35
 9.  Sutil         Force India-Ferrari (B)  1:24.669  + 0.808   22
10.  Vettel        Toro Rosso-Ferrari  (B)  1:24.773  + 0.912   35
11.  Coulthard     Red Bull-Renault    (B)  1:25.100  + 1.239   25
12.  Bourdais      Toro Rosso-Ferrari  (B)  1:25.192  + 1.331   39
13.  Fisichella    Force India-Ferrari (B)  1:25.204  + 1.343   24
14.  Barrichello   Honda               (B)  1:25.296  + 1.435   25
15.  Button        Honda               (B)  1:25.309  + 1.448   34
16.  Nakajima      Williams-Toyota     (B)  1:25.330  + 1.469   28
17.  Glock         Toyota              (B)  1:25.397  + 1.536   28
18.  Alonso        Renault             (B)  1:25.481  + 1.620   22
19.  Trulli        Toyota              (B)  1:25.753  + 1.892   29
20.  Piquet        Renault             (B)  1:26.195  + 2.334   23

AUTOSPORT

That was a bit more of a normal session in second practice, but still impossible to judge pace.

I would love to see a Minardi style Pole and second postion in qualifying (as they did in France a couple of years ago where it rained when it started qualifying but the track dried as the Minardi's were out and they got pole and second position on the grid).Garfield360UK

You're quite the Minardi fan aren't you? :P

It better be a session of pissing it down tomorrow lolkipi19

Well the chances are very high. Currently, the "Monza Monsoon" is expected to hang around all weekend. Headache, much?

You got me!

Takuma Sato beat Fernando Alonso in Canada a year ago is all I need to say :P

15 minutes in and Glock leads from Alonso, Piquet, Trulli & Barrichello for your top 5 atm.

At the half way mark, Glock leads Vettel by 6 tenths of a second with Rosberg 3rd, Trulli 4th and Nakajima 5th. Hamilton, Bourdais and Kovalainen are the only drivers yet to set a time. Raikkonen only left the pits about 5 minutes ago for the first time and his first lap is 5.7 seconds slower than Glock. EDIT: About a minute on and everyone has headed in. My presumption is, with Trulli doing a 55 second middle sector, that the "Monza Monsoon" has returned.

After nearly 10 minutes of no action, Heidfeld becomes the first to venture out on track. Taking a look at the pictures so far, it seems people are struggling out there - and that's on the extreme wet tyres. Heidfeld, Bourdais and Rosberg all headed out for out laps, but then came straight in. All these weather problems must be coming to a concern for McLaren, who have only ventured out on actual lap times in FP2. Granted, we've seen what the car is capable of in extreme conditions in the hands of Hamilton, but these conditions appear to be far worse than have been seen in a very long time. It's like the carnage of the opening laps of the European GP last year, but instead of being just a few minutes long, it just won't stop.

15 minutes remain and no change to the order - because there's been no times done since. Weather reports suggest this weather will still be here for qualifying, which could, as things stand, see the most unlikliest grid in F1 history so far. Take that, Japan '05. Lewis ventures out now. He's going for a lap as well. Unbelievable. He sets a 1:50.834, 9 seconds down on Kimi, the next man in front, and 15 seconds down on Glock. Speaking of which, the German is out on track.

It is utter madness anyone who's out on circuit. The track is a swimming pool, it is flooded EVERYWHERE. I can see the grid for the race tomorrow filled with "suprise". There could be some major shock results if this keeps up into Sunday as well. That is, provided the race even runs, because this could be comparative to Fuji last year as well.

In the end it was "come as you are", with no changes except: Bourdais moving up to 17th and Heikki going 19th. In the Championship contenders run, that puts Massa in 8th, Raikkonen 18th and Championship Leader Hamilton, who took to the track at the wrong time, last of all runners.

Well here's a VERY sneaky move, bound to make the blood boil even more in this very dodgy time for F1:

Just a technical note. The FIA have clarified the rule on chicanes following that Lewis Hamilton incident last weekend. If a driver gains a position by cutting a chicane, he must give it back and then wait a corner before attempting to overtake again. "Generally, it is pretty clear for people to probably not attack immediately again, which wasn't mega, mega clear in the past," said Mark Webber after the drivers'briefing. Europsort

Someone cry foul play? Again things have to be clarified AFTER an incident happens. Why not just spit your rules out in plain English first time FIA?

How bizarre. Many people have said the rule wasn't entirely clear before, but now, after stripping a driver of a race win, and 4 points, they modify the rules? 'Waiting until after the next corner' is not clarification, it is a new rule, and as such, should not be applied in hindsight.

This sets up a very interesting situation for qualifying. Expect red flags, delays, and an upside down grid, if the current conditions continue.

Vettel on pole! Well this certainly will make tomorrow's race one of the most exciting of the season.

Good lord almighty, Vettel ftw!

What a moment :lol:

This is gonna be Major Monza Monsoon Madness! Let's keep the rain for tomorrow yeah? :D

EDIT: Poll now added.

Wow, that was crazy. Both Toro Rosso's ahead of the factory Ferraris, well ahead. Hamilton in 15th, man!

Should make for an exciting race tomorrow! Even with rain may be lots of passing with those heavy hitters deep in the field.

Uh-oh Zee German is on poll. :D He needs to shave that thin mustache though. :P

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Berger just say Vettel had a full-dry set-up? :?

I was just gonna say, anyone staying to watch it? I know I am :lol:

This'll be carnage if it's anything like the standard I've seen of GP2 this year...

Those of us in the States don't get to see the GP2 race until tomorrow morning (6 am) before the F1 race. :( And we only see the Feature race and a 5 minute version of the Sprint race.

They are quite 'loose' in the GP2 class. Makes for exciting races though.

It'll be a slight reminescene of Japan 2003 (or was it) when almost half of the top championship leaders started from the back, because of rain.

If it does shine tomorrow, it'll be one heck of a race and if it rains, the same thing would happen. I wouldn't put my money entirely on Vettel though.

GP2 TEXT:

FORMATION LAP (COUNTED AS LAP 1): The race is going to begin under SC rules. Shame, but safety is deffo required. Absolutely no sight through the main straight.

LAP 3: Still under SC rules, Yamamoto is slowing down. Even in GP2 he can't seem to finish a race.

LAP 4: The race finally begins for everyone, as the SC pulls in. MASSIVE INCIDENT. Zuber, Petrov & Villa involved. Villa went way too fast and smashed right into the Zuber.

LAP 6: It's dry in places, but black clouds loom in the distance. Senna passes his teammate.

LAP 8: di Grassi catches Pantano a little bit.

LAP 11: Pantano takes off onto the grass.

LAP 15: Filippi goes to slicks. Can't keep control at all.

LAP 16: Kobayashi gets punted off the track.

LAP 24: di Grassi loses 2nd to Maldonado.

LAP 25: Pantano exits his pits, BUT he crosses the white line leaving - penalty coming?

LAP 27: Pantano gets a driver through penalty, as Filippi smashed into the wall at turn 4. di Grassi passes Pantano before Giorgio can even go for his penalty.

LAP 32: Lucas di Grassi takes victory from Maldonado. Buemi takes 3rd, with Grojean 4th and 5th is Senna. But it's not enough for Bruno, as Giorgio Pantano becomes GP2 Champion!

I think the drivers did pretty well for such awful conditions at the start, and well done to Pantano for taking the title, despite a loss of concentration crossing the white line.

Tomorrow is looking even cooler for F1, with highs of just 16, and rain is looking likely, but whether the race itself will be hit is still unknown. If it's dry, Raikkonen and Hamilton could be back in with a chance of working up the grid, but if it's extremely wet, then Massa could fall back with them, and Vettel would be in with a chance, as would other 'back markers'. If the conditions are changeable, then who knows what could unfold.

Vettel on pole! Well this certainly will make tomorrow's race one of the most exciting of the season.

cjek

This will be interesting to see then, will we get another European '99 shock result where the Steward Ford team finished 1 and 3 with a Sauber or Jordan in between them?

Completely forgot, that's your dream scenario ain't it? :P

It's an amazing day to say the least, and I hope Vettel can at least make the podium. Nonetheless, Toro Rosso are going from strength to strength. Could they even beat Williams at the end of the year?

There go my predictions for this weekend. :(

Predictions aside, I'm probably more excited for this race than any other this season. Raikkonen and Hamilton on P14 and 15 is just crazy. Massa is P6 but we all now how he does in the wet.

There go my predictions for this weekend. :(

kingdre

I know, my predictions might actually do well. ::(

Completely forgot, that's your dream scenario ain't it? :P

It's an amazing day to say the least, and I hope Vettel can at least make the podium. Nonetheless, Toro Rosso are going from strength to strength. Could they even beat Williams at the end of the year?

Redders1989

I think they could, Williams are slipping further and further back and you have to ask will they continue on in another seasons time if they can not get back to the front. They need a car manufacturer to buy them out really now as they can not win the title in their current financial state and it seems they are all over the place driver wise, they can not get the Alonso, Hamilton, Massa's of the F1 crowd.