CONFIRMED: Bungie leaving Microsoft

From an interview with Reuters:

"The Xbox has given us lot of success so, for now, our eyes are set on the Xbox 360," Bungie spokesman Brian Jarrard said. "We're not in a situation where we're running out the door and grabbing Wii and PS3 development kits.

"There's not a real intention to do that unless something changes down the road," Jarrard said.

"As far as anybody should be concerned, it's business as usual with Bungie. The only difference is that they are now employees of Bungie, not employees of Microsoft," Shane Kim, head of Microsoft Game Studios, told Reuters.

So it sounds like Bungie just really couldn't stand being tied so closely to Microsoft that they were being told what to do. The thing is, this sounds way too flowery talk-wise for a company that probably just spent billions to get away from another company. While this interview sounds nice, I'm inclined to believe that things were much uglier behind the scenes, and I think that will eventually carry over to which platforms Bungie develops on.

Ok, so here is a fun little task someone may wish to take up, as I am personally far too lazy (and busy to do myself). However, Bungie was quoted a few months back as saying Halo 3 would be the last one they would be making -- or something along these lines. Well, back then we could have thought, "oh, they may just wait until the next generation xbox for Halo 4" or "Oh, that may just be in regards to the trilogy"... however in today's context, this could mean, that Halo 4 is indeed going to be, and may already be, planned by an internal group owned by Microsoft. (Funny, if Microsoft forced the Halo 3 ending after the credits ;P). Now, of course, to support my claims we would have to find the exact quotes to see if this theory makes any sense. However, it's not something that is a totally crazy thought, as many people here have already stated ideas of a Halo under a different dev team.

With that said, does it matter if Halo 4 is made by bungie or not? I think it really depends on the quality. People know who Bungie is, moreso then they knew who Infinity Ward was. Yet, CoD3 was still laughed at prior to and after it's release. Then with CoD4, the hype surrounding IW back in the mix was huge before and after the beta, and will remain so until it's release. So, yes, I think Bungie not making Halo 4 will be a major change. I think essentially, whoever is given the project will either end up with a way better game then the first three, or one that is a lot worse. I prefer to think the former would happen, as I myself thought Halo 3 was lackluster -- but thats another topic altogether :)

[QUOTE="dvader654"]

Do you really think anyone cares who made Halo. When Halo 4 rolls around and Bungie is not on the cover people no one will care. Will the quality of the game go down, who knows that could be an issue, but the Halo brand is far bigger and more important than Bungie. I am talking about this from a business standpoint, which is what this whole issue is about.

Shame-usBlackley

Goldeneye and Goldeneye: Rogue Agent.

EDIT: Or hell, Devil May Cry and Devil May Cry 2.(Granted, the base for DMC is a much more hardcore, small base, but still)

All I'm saying is that history shows through sales numbers that switching dev teams on an established IP almost always results in a dropoff for the series.

Not to go OT, but the problem with DMC2 was the low quality of the game. According to Capcom, it only slightly missed sales projections. I'm willing to bet it launched big but had no legs due to horrible word of mouth.

Devil May Cry 2 for the Sony PlayStation 2 sold 1.4 million copies instead of the expected 1.66 million.

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/adventure/residentevil0/news.html?sid=6025321

I think IPs switching over to new hands tend to fall off for the same reason. Halo 4 could probably be huge, but if history is any guide, it might mark the destruction of the series. Or maybe not. DMC3, the series' finest outing, was done by the same team that handled DMC2.

Reading this, it reminded me of the '2nd party dev' approach, where a separately owned developer makes a game and a 1st party publishes it. MS has similar deals in place for games such as Mass Effect, Too Human, Gears of War and Alan Wake. Sony has such deals with Insomniac (Resistance, Ratchet and Clank) and Naughty Dog (Uncharted).

This is a different relationship than ownership, like MS' current relationship with Bungie, Lionhead and Rare, but still is a close relationship (Insomniac hasn't released a game not published by SCE even though they could).

This would make the most sense of anything, to me, concerning the recent fervor surrounding this rumor. MS just flat out losing Bungie, particularly after recently losing Bizarre for the PGR series, would just be a PR disaster. Such an arrangement as outlined above would give Bungie the freedom that all developers desire but still give them access to the type of development support and marketing resources that MS could provide.

Thoughts?

Darth_Tigris

I'm quoting myself from 3 days ago (since everyone ignored my post) because this is pretty much what I called, based on the GI story. I still think the Insomniac comparison holds firm.

And, for the record, I don't know of any publishing arrangement that S-E has with Sony. As far as I knew, they published their own games.

After Bungie's press report I'm not entirly sure what their relationship with Mcirosoft is. Do Microsoft get first dibs on all future Bungie games, or just that they will continue the exclusivity of Halo together?hair001

Correct. Microsoft gets first right of refusal on everything Bungie does. Microsoft maintainedtheir publisher agreement. It effectively just makes Bungie a second party company.

Halo is maintained by Microsoft so they have ultimate control on that IP. All in all Bungie can do what they want dev wise, but MS still has a handle on them.

[QUOTE="HiResDes"]

That is possible, although it is very unlikely especially given the success the 360 has had in Europe & America, and given just how poorly Vista has done in comparison to their expectations. I do see where you coming from, some very important ties have been severed, and that billion dollar loss had to catch Mr. Gates's attention. However, they have always said that they were in this for the long run, and it is very likely that the next xbox would be a highly profitable endeavor. I don't see them just packing up everything and quitting, after having given Sony a run for their money, which I have to think was one of their goals. I do definitely agree that either Sony or MS needs to just pack up and leave, as I do not see enough room for the two companies to coexist and make profits in the future.

Shame-usBlackley

Well, not to take anything away from what Microsoft has done this generation (which has been a lot), but it was less them giving Sony a run for their money and more Sony taking a hatchet and hacking off three of their four limbs in a bizarre act of self-dismemberment.

Had Sony launched at the same price, at the same time, this generation would've already been on lockdown.

I find this whole situation to be an arrogant move on Bungie's part.

Not that I don't like Halo, and not that I don't think Marathon, Mythic, or Oni were decent games, but quite frankly, I think Bungie caught a huge break with the Halo franchise, and I don't believe theyr'e the AAA, blockbuster, "anything we touch turns to gold" developers that they think they are.

If I were them, I'd run Halo until I absolutely could not anymore. It's profitable, it ensures the consumers and MS will have another Halo to play at least every 3 years, and it's really all Bungie's fans want out of them.

Now whether they go off and make Oni 2, a strategy game, or (for all i know) a puzzler, I think that whatever the project may be, it's going to be a huge wake up call for Bungie.

A lot more of my argument rests on the merits of the Halo franchise, and why I think it's garnered more sales and accolades than it probably otherwise would have received if the cards had not fallen in the perfect spots, but I will spare you that.

[QUOTE="hair001"]After Bungie's press report I'm not entirly sure what their relationship with Mcirosoft is. Do Microsoft get first dibs on all future Bungie games, or just that they will continue the exclusivity of Halo together?snackdaddy

Correct. Microsoft gets first right of refusal on everything Bungie does. Microsoft maintainedtheir publisher agreement. It effectively just makes Bungie a second party company.

[QUOTE="Shinoto"]Well to be honest, It seems more and more likely MS will be jumping out of the game industry after this gen. They no longer seem aggressive towards it, seeming to part ways with many developers and stuff. Just seems more like... yay...
HiResDes

That is possible, although it is very unlikely especially given the success the 360 has had in Europe & America, and given just how poorly Vista has done in comparison to their expectations. I do see where you're coming from, some very important ties have been severed, and that billion dollar loss had to catch Mr. Gates's attention. However, they have always said that they were in this for the long run, and it is very likely that the next xbox would be a highly profitable endeavor. I don't see them just packing up everything and quitting, after having given Sony a run for their money, which I have to think was one of their goals. I do definitely agree that either Sony or MS needs to just pack up and leave, as I do not see enough room for the two companies to coexist and make profits in the future.

That's true, one should definitely go. As of now I support MS and the 360 because they are offering a much better experience and have great games, and to be honest it would be hard not to enjoy Xbox Live on the next generation. I kind of miss the days when the battle was much simpler.

[QUOTE="Dire_Weasel"]You haven't been reading these forums much, have you. :wink:
Seriously, you don't get those kind of first-week sales from the "hardcore" crowd. Halo is the definition of a casual gamers game. As long as Master Chief's BMX helmet head is on the cover a Halo game will sell millions with or without Bungie's name on it.rragnaar

That's where you're wrong. There's no way you make this kind of money in one week without a substantial amount of That's where you're wrong. There's no way you make this kind of money in one week without a substantial amount of casual players..Marty81

I have to agree. If Bungie doesn't handle a Halo sequel, it will make me feel kind of weird towards it, like something is missing and that would be Bungie. I would have my doubts, but if any other developer proved to make a better game, well then, cheers!

[QUOTE="HiResDes"]

That is possible, although it is very unlikely especially given the success the 360 has had in Europe & America, and given just how poorly Vista has done in comparison to their expectations. I do see where you coming from, some very important ties have been severed, and that billion dollar loss had to catch Mr. Gates's attention. However, they have always said that they were in this for the long run, and it is very likely that the next xbox would be a highly profitable endeavor. I don't see them just packing up everything and quitting, after having given Sony a run for their money, which I have to think was one of their goals. I do definitely agree that either Sony or MS needs to just pack up and leave, as I do not see enough room for the two companies to coexist and make profits in the future.

Shame-usBlackley

Well, not to take anything away from what Microsoft has done this generation (which has been a lot), but it was less them giving Sony a run for their money and more Sony taking a hatchet and hacking off three of their four limbs in a bizarre act of self-dismemberment.

Had Sony launched at the same price, at the same time, this generation would've already been on lockdown.

This statement by 1up eases myworries:

"This works out well for both parties. 1UP learned much of the disagreement between the two companies was derived from intense deadlines that frustrated Bungie. Instead of creative folks jumping ship and leaving Microsoft with a crippled Bungie, the studio gets creative independence and Microsoft keeps their flagship developer. It's a smart business move on Microsoft's part."

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3163429

So I guess both companies benefit from it. I really thought the breakup was caused by Microsoft forcing Bungie to do things they didn't want to, likebeing slaves toPeter Jackson's games for example. :P

This is so surreal and bizarre that it's beyond words. Also, seemingly pointless. Bungie is still going to work on Halo and make games exclusively for Microsoft. So really, what's this about? Deadlines? As an independent developer, Bungie still needs funds to come from somwhere and Microsoft as a publisher can still push them on that.

I'm a huge proponent of a strong independent developers, but with Microsoft keeping such a major presence, Bungie's independence comes of as kind of...irrelevant.

By the way, I'm never again going to comment on rumors 'cause chances are - I'll be wrong. Let's face it, if I was wrong on this - then I can never be right. :P

This is so surreal and bizarre that it's beyond words. Also, seemingly pointless. Bungie is still going to work on Halo and make games exclusively for Microsoft. So really, what's this about? Deadlines? As an independent developer, Bungie still needs funds to come from somwhere and Microsoft as a publisher can still push them on that.

I'm a huge proponent of a strong independent developers, but with Microsoft keeping such a major presence, Bungie's independence comes of as kind of...irrelevant.

By the way, I'm never again going to comment on rumors 'cause chances are - I'll be wrong. Let's face it, if I was wrong on this - then I can never be right. :P

UpInFlames

Its about being indepentant. They want the abillity to say hey... We dont feel like working on another Halo game were gonna go do somthing else. But if they are Owned by Microsoft they dont have that power to decide on projects to the same degree as they are now.

Its about being indepentant. They want the abillity to say hey... We dont feel like working on another Halo game were gonna go do somthing else. But if they are Owned by Microsoft they dont have that power to decide on projects to the same degree as they are now.Irogon767

That's true, naturally. But I guess I simply can't understand Microsoft's incentive to do this, a deal could've been made internally to allow Bungie a lot more freedom if they were really under so much pressure. After all, we can't ignore the fact that Bungie is now independent solely because Microsoft allowed it to happen - that kind of puts a damper on the whole implication that Bungie was really mistreated. Bungie always came off as an extremely self-centered and pretentious lot with a collective messiah complex, so perhaps their desire to push for this sort of thing and try to put Microsoft in its place shouldn't be that surprising.

This is so surreal and bizarre that it's beyond words. Also, seemingly pointless. Bungie is still going to work on Halo and make games exclusively for Microsoft. So really, what's this about? Deadlines? As an independent developer, Bungie still needs funds to come from somwhere and Microsoft as a publisher can still push them on that.

I'm a huge proponent of a strong independent developers, but with Microsoft keeping such a major presence, Bungie's independence comes of as kind of...irrelevant.

By the way, I'm never again going to comment on rumors 'cause chances are - I'll be wrong. Let's face it, if I was wrong on this - then I can never be right. :P

UpInFlames

If you really want to know why ...it is simple. This is nothing but a spin off. This saves Microsoft millions of dollars in taxes. They don't have to pay taxes on Bungie anymore.Toilet_Water

Interesting theory, but it doesn't hold much water. If Microsoft were paying a lot of taxes on Bungie, it would be because Bungie was produing a lot of revenue, which means that the taxation wouldn't be a net loss.Bungie wouldbe bringing in (much needed) income rather than hurting their bottom line. If they were a net loss, there would be no tax increase from them at all. Remember, the only time Microsoft's gaming division has ever been profitable was during the release of Halo 2. I imagine that Halo 3 is going to mark the second time.

For that matter, spinning off doesn't get rid of the income, and thus can't really get rid of the taxes. Either Microsoft is paying the taxes or Bungie is -- and in the end, it's in Microsoft's best interest to hold the profits after taxation if they can do so. If this getting rid of a huge drain on income were the goal, there are other acquisitinos which would be better suited -- like Rare.

Could this be a sign MS is planning to leave the console industry? The 360 may not surpass the Xbox in sales and I think they are loosing money because of the hardware issues. I'm sure they will see the 360 out and support it well until the end but I can't shake the feeling it's going to be their last console. Sir_Graham

I'll say what I said again a few days ago...

It makes sense...MS just want Bungie to make Halo none stop, and for the past 10 years thats all they have made, if I were Bungie I would just say "fine take the franchise, but let us leave and make our own games."

I just don't know if its true though...interesting though around this time back 02 or 03 was when these kind of rumors came out about Rare leaving Nintendo and everyone thought that was impossible, so in the game industry and sources confirming this around the internet, nothing is impossible.

Next-Gen uploaded this interview with Brian Jarrard, Bungie's community director. He explains (sort of) about the minute details of the split.

Quick excerpt:

How exactly does this whole "split" work out? How does a studio that was acquired in 2000, a wholly-owned studio, just get up and take off with its name and studio intact?

Well, it was an interesting set of discussions, as you can imagine. It's been going on for quite a while. Ultimately, it was something that we had to do as a group to creatively continue to expand and continue what we want to do. As [Bungie's Jason Jones] so aptly put it, we're a shark that just has to keep moving to stay alive, otherwise we felt that we'd start to stagnate and potentially lose interest, and maybe even lose some of our teams.

Fortunately for us, Microsoft realized that, and they've been very accommodating to help us work through this and come to an arrangement that ultimately is going to reinvigorate and empower Bungie to continue to do great games and make great games for Microsoft's platforms, as well as getting more Halo games to come from our studio as well.

At the same time, it gives us the freedom down the road to explore other opportunities and challenge ourselves and keep us engaged in what we do. It was about putting together a deal where both groups could get what they're after.