Geoff Keighley: Sources say PS4 will have used games DRM.

Here we go. Something we all expected after seeing how cagey Sony was about used games DRM earlier this year, but now the rumors have started for the PS4 as well.

Sad sad turn of events. This industry is going to kill itself.

http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/qas7id/bonus-round-dissecting-the-microsoft-press-conference

17:50 minutes into the vid.

So who is going Wii U only after this? Remember PC also has used games DRM. :P

Sad sad turn of events. This industry is going to kill itself.

S0lidSnake

Yep, we're witnessing the death of the gaming industry. Used game transactions, in which developers see none of the money, were the only thing holding it together. Soon, consoles will be like the PC: dead. With like, no games anymore. And no one playing on it.

Remember PC also has used games DRM. S0lidSnake

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

Sad sad turn of events. This industry is going to kill itself.

ReddestSkies

Yep, we're witnessing the death of the gaming industry. Used game transactions, in which developers see none of the money, were the only thing holding it together. Soon, consoles will be like the PC: dead. With like, no games anymore. And no one playing on it.

Ok. I get it. You dont agree. You dont have to be a prick about it.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]Remember PC also has used games DRM. Black_Knight_00

Who you talking to? lol

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]Remember PC also has used games DRM. S0lidSnake

Who you talking to? lol

[QUOTE="ReddestSkies"]

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

Sad sad turn of events. This industry is going to kill itself.

S0lidSnake

Yep, we're witnessing the death of the gaming industry. Used game transactions, in which developers see none of the money, were the only thing holding it together. Soon, consoles will be like the PC: dead. With like, no games anymore. And no one playing on it.

Ok. I get it. You dont agree. You dont have to be a prick about it.

Well of course I don't agree. Gaming isn't going to die any time soon, obviously.

I'm shocked! Truly. Sony you bastards how dare you!

No, not really. Been saying this forever now. CO.LLU.SION.

Can we get a class-action lawsuit going against them? Seriously. Would we have a case? Any lawyers or law school students around? Preferably those that dare to potentially ruin their career and not really win anything other than the support, love and adoration of every hardcore gamer on the planet along with...the potential to get really, really rich?

kind of expecting this , I'll have to see how this turns out. It sucks, I think of going PC only because games are much cheaper and playing my backlog. 

By the way, what did he say exactly (or what minute is it at)? I'm not sitting through 20 minutes of the dorito popeBlack_Knight_00

Sorry 17:50 in the vid. My original OP had it but gamespot failed on me..... tired of that f*cking issue... and i lost the entire OP. Had to rewrite it and forgot to post the time link. :P

I thought Sony already said they weren't going to do it themselves, but that they'd let the publishers decide or not. Which, they could just as well do now on current gens.JustPlainLucas

Why would you think that? Weren't Sony the ones who introduced the online pass? Don't worry, Sony will use more jelly when bending us over and tell us they love us. MS, those bastards, always going in dry and showing they don't care.:P

Let's break it down by political parties:

Sony - Democrats(by the people, for the people. they piss on you but hands you an umbrela.)

Microsoft - Liberals(as in free to stick it wherever they want)

Nintendo - Republicans(did you know they're still censoring butts and thongs when games get converted from Japan to the USA? and you thought they were done with this practice in the 90s....)

Ouya - The Tea Party(they'll be out across the street at E3 having their rally in case anyone wants to drop by.)

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]By the way, what did he say exactly (or what minute is it at)? I'm not sitting through 20 minutes of the dorito popeS0lidSnake

Sorry 17:50 in the vid. My original OP had it but gamespot failed on me..... tired of that f*cking issue... and i lost the entire OP. Had to rewrite it and forgot to post the time link. :P

Why would you think that? Weren't Sony the ones who introduced the online pass? Don't worry, Sony will use more jelly when bending us over and tell us they love us. MS, those bastards, always going in dry and showing they don't care.:P

Let's break it down by political parties:

Sony - Democrats(by the people, for the people. they piss on you but hands you an umbrela.)

Microsoft - Liberals(as in free to stick it wherever they want)

Nintendo - Republicans(did you know they're still censoring butts and thongs when games get converted from Japan to the USA? and you thought they were done with this practice in the 90s....)

Ouya - The Tea Party(they'll be out across the street at E3 having their rally in case anyone wants to drop by.)

alexwatchtower

I thought EA was the one to adopt online passes, and Sony quickly followed suit. Whatever the case, I do want to post an interesting point. EA has finally admitted to online passes not being viable. I'm willing to think that other publishers, including Sony, will do the same. Also, I view Sony as more consumer friendly than MS just by observing what's happened with this current gen. MS = must pay for online. Sony = free online. MS = unfriendly to indie developers. Sony = open to indie. Now, I'm also inclined to think that Sony, although they have been just as stupid at times as MS, will take all this bad press MS is receiving as an opportunity to make their system more attractive to gamers. Of course, if Sony wants to be just as stupid as MS, then by all means, they reflect their same business practices. JustPlainLucas

Yeah i remember that thread. It was just last week and I even said, something didn't feel right and I wasn't ready to celebrate.

Now we know why! They're not going to need them! We will all love always online and DRM, remember?

And I still want to see all this bad press. Videogame forums and Youtube video comments can't really be considered "bad press". X1 has been receiving a lot of positive press from the mass media.

I thought Sony already said they weren't going to do it themselves, but that they'd let the publishers decide or not. Which, they could just as well do now on current gens.JustPlainLucas

That is what Sony said.

I call bullshit on this whole affair and you are hereby stripped of your rank of captain sony for posting it :lol:

Black_Knight_00

You are not the first one, and you wont be the last. :P

There is a massive thread about this on neogaf so it definitely does hold water. Keighley is one of THE most well known journos in this industry and his sources are much much better than ours. If he is hearing stuff that means there IS some truth to it. Dont reject these rumors because you dont like it just like most other users did here when the Durango always online rumors came out. You are only hearing these rumors because there is some truth to them. 

Also, the neogaf insiders have confirmed that Sony had one in place up until a couple of days. It's only after they saw the reaction to MS's DRM that they scrapped it. 

I thought Sony already said they weren't going to do it themselves, but that they'd let the publishers decide or not. Which, they could just as well do now on current gens.JustPlainLucas

It still means that they would have to add a system wide DRM in place. Their first party games wont use but third party games would indeed have to go through this DRM check. There is no way for third party publishers to lock the offline single player portions of their games other than having you go online to play them. They need Sony to implement soemthing in the PS4.

Also, the neogaf insiders have confirmed that Sony had one in place up until a couple of days. It's only after they saw the reaction to MS's DRM that they scrapped it. 

S0lidSnake

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

I call bullshit on this whole affair and you are hereby stripped of your rank of captain sony for posting it :lol:

S0lidSnake

You are not the first one, and you wont be the last. :P

There is a massive thread about this on neogaf so it definitely does hold water. Keighley is one of THE most well known journos in this industry and his sources are much much better than ours. If he is hearing stuff that means there IS some truth to it. Dont reject these rumors because you dont like it just like most other users did here when the Durango always online rumors came out. You are only hearing these rumors because there is some truth to them. 

Also, the neogaf insiders have confirmed that Sony had one in place up until a couple of days. It's only after they saw the reaction to MS's DRM that they scrapped it. 

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

I call bullshit on this whole affair and you are hereby stripped of your rank of captain sony for posting it :lol:

Black_Knight_00

You are not the first one, and you wont be the last. :P

There is a massive thread about this on neogaf so it definitely does hold water. Keighley is one of THE most well known journos in this industry and his sources are much much better than ours. If he is hearing stuff that means there IS some truth to it. Dont reject these rumors because you dont like it just like most other users did here when the Durango always online rumors came out. You are only hearing these rumors because there is some truth to them. 

Also, the neogaf insiders have confirmed that Sony had one in place up until a couple of days. It's only after they saw the reaction to MS's DRM that they scrapped it. 

I dont get this Keighley hate. What has he done to hurt you so much? he's the most geniune journalist out there. He doesnt have to rely on angry shtick like ANnoyed Gamer, Angry Joe, Jim Sterling or Yahtzee. He isnt jadded as f*ck like every other journalist who hate their jobs. He is not a kissass we know that for sure. If he says he's heard things you dont HAVE to believe him but you dont have to shit on him. The guy knows practically everyone in the industry and unlike most journos he's actually friends with most devs and execs. 

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

You are not the first one, and you wont be the last. :P

There is a massive thread about this on neogaf so it definitely does hold water. Keighley is one of THE most well known journos in this industry and his sources are much much better than ours. If he is hearing stuff that means there IS some truth to it. Dont reject these rumors because you dont like it just like most other users did here when the Durango always online rumors came out. You are only hearing these rumors because there is some truth to them. 

Also, the neogaf insiders have confirmed that Sony had one in place up until a couple of days. It's only after they saw the reaction to MS's DRM that they scrapped it. 

S0lidSnake

I dont get this Keighley hate. What has he done to hurt you so much? he's the most geniune journalist out there. He doesnt have to rely on angry shtick like ANnoyed Gamer, Angry Joe, Jim Sterling or Yahtzee. He isnt jadded as f*ck like every other journalist who hate their jobs. He is not a kissass we know that for sure. If he says he's heard things you dont HAVE to believe him but you dont have to shit on him. The guy knows practically everyone in the industry and unlike most journos he's actually friends with most devs and execs. 

Which is why he's not the most genuine. Were you not around when the whole debacle with him sitting by a Halo 4 poster with Mountain Dew and Doritos went down? 

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

You are not the first one, and you wont be the last. :P

There is a massive thread about this on neogaf so it definitely does hold water. Keighley is one of THE most well known journos in this industry and his sources are much much better than ours. If he is hearing stuff that means there IS some truth to it. Dont reject these rumors because you dont like it just like most other users did here when the Durango always online rumors came out. You are only hearing these rumors because there is some truth to them. 

Also, the neogaf insiders have confirmed that Sony had one in place up until a couple of days. It's only after they saw the reaction to MS's DRM that they scrapped it. 

S0lidSnake

I dont get this Keighley hate. What has he done to hurt you so much? he's the most geniune journalist out there. He doesnt have to rely on angry shtick like ANnoyed Gamer, Angry Joe, Jim Sterling or Yahtzee. He isnt jadded as f*ck like every other journalist who hate their jobs. He is not a kissass we know that for sure. If he says he's heard things you dont HAVE to believe him but you dont have to shit on him. The guy knows practically everyone in the industry and unlike most journos he's actually friends with most devs and execs. 

I dont get this Keighley hate. What has he done to hurt you so much? he's the most geniune journalist out there. He doesnt have to rely on angry shtick like ANnoyed Gamer, Angry Joe, Jim Sterling or Yahtzee. He isnt jadded as f*ck like every other journalist who hate their jobs. He is not a kissass we know that for sure. If he says he's heard things you dont HAVE to believe him but you dont have to shit on him. The guy knows practically everyone in the industry and unlike most journos he's actually friends with most devs and execs. S0lidSnake

SS you really should stick with official info on the used game deal dude. At this point GAF is not the most reliable source. That place is as big a mess as anywhere else on the net. I have never seen that forum in such a disarray before. There's way too much bullshit in the air and it's going to get people riled up each freaking time the issue is brought up.

Maybe it would be better if you also created more of an official topic on Sony's used game policy only with what was officially confirmed, and mark the rest as nothing but pure speculation. Just my two cents.

Remember PC also has used games DRM. :P

S0lidSnake

Except with Steam I don't feel like I got bent over a barrel without lube.

Some of the earliest rumors about the PS 4 had it that the PS 4 wasn't going to have a blu-ray drive, that all content would have to be purchased from the PSN Store, but the failure of that scheme to catch on with the PS Vita reportedly caused Sony to reconsider it for the PS 4.

If the licensing of used games is also going to be a requirement on the PS 4, I suspect it's actually being driven by the game developers.  They make no money from the sale of used games for the current gen consoles, and that cuts into their revenue.  Consoles are not of much use without the support of the game developers (just ask Nintendo), so this may be an issue that is unavoidable on the PS 4 as well.  

I rarely buy new releases these days because I've been burned too many times in the past by paying a premium for mediocre new releases that weren't worth the purchase price.  I tend to favor used games or new games that are discounted because they are significantly past their release dates.  At least this scheme will protect the game developers from losing money on the market for used games without them having to improve the quality of new games.

The real question is, how far will this DRM scheme get carried?  Will blu-ray movies be next?  Perhaps in the future you'll have to buy a license for a used movie disc that you got from a friend or family member.  The same thing could work for computers and mobile devices as well.  How about cars?  Why don't car makers get a cut from the sale of used cars?  The same principal being applied to the re-sale of used games could be carried over to every product.  It makes the consumer responsible for the well-being of companies rather than putting the responsibility on the companies for their own well-being.  

If the majority of new release games were compelling enough and reasonably priced, people would buy them and used games wouldn't be such an issue.  At least in this case they aren't using the piracy lie.  DRM schemes are anti-consumer devices intended to restrict consumer choices for the sake of maximizing profits on entertainment products.  The re-licensing of used games for a fee provides no better example of that.

Some of the earliest rumors about the PS 4 had it that the PS 4 wasn't going to have a blu-ray drive, that all content would have to be purchased from the PSN Store, but the failure of that scheme to catch on with the PS Vita reportedly caused Sony to reconsider it for the PS 4.

If the licensing of used games is also going to be a requirement on the PS 4, I suspect it's actually being driven by the game developers.  They make no money from the sale of used games for the current gen consoles, and that cuts into their revenue.  Consoles are not of much use without the support of the game developers (just ask Nintendo), so this may be an issue that is unavoidable on the PS 4 as well.  

I rarely buy new releases these days because I've been burned too many times in the past by paying a premium for mediocre new releases that weren't worth the purchase price.  I tend to favor used games or new games that are discounted because they are significantly past their release dates.  At least this scheme will protect the game developers from losing money on the market for used games without them having to improve the quality of new games.

The real question is, how far will this DRM scheme get carried?  Will blu-ray movies be next?  Perhaps in the future you'll have to buy a license for a used movie disc that you got from a friend or family member.  The same thing could work for computers and mobile devices as well.  How about cars?  Why don't car makers get a cut from the sale of used cars?  The same principal being applied to the re-sale of used games could be carried over to every product.  It makes the consumer responsible for the well-being of companies rather than putting the responsibility on the companies for their own well-being.  

If the majority of new release games were compelling enough and reasonably priced, people would buy them and used games wouldn't be such an issue.  At least in this case they aren't using the piracy lie.  DRM schemes are anti-consumer devices intended to restrict consumer choices for the sake of maximizing profits on entertainment products.  The re-licensing of used games for a fee provides no better example of that.

capaho

That would be scary and terrying and horrible.

But I guess the question is, if there were no used games at all, would people stop gaming on consoles? I don't think so.

I would probably buy a lot less games though. The way I would look at it is like going to an amusement part, but at $60 a pop, that's more than Disney World and usually not quite the same thrill. 

So I would end up buying only the best of the best experiences which means a lot of publishers would suffer unless the cost of games dropped significantly.

Something would have to give anyway. Either price of new games or some sort of used games market.

That's too bad if true, I was hoping for one good console this generation. I will hold out hope that it is not. This kind of DRM structure will not work successfully on a closed platform. GodModeEnabled

This. If this turns out to be the case I can see many people educated on the issue making the jump to PC. 

Thought this would happen. Going with the Wii-U this generation and possibly making a PC down the line if this is true. It's sad because I really like Sony IPs too.

Sony stated used games would be playable with the PlayStation 4, so I expect them to be unless Sony issues a contrary statement.BranKetra

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]Sony stated used games would be playable with the PlayStation 4, so I expect them to be unless Sony issues a contrary statement.Minishdriveby

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]Sony stated used games would be playable with the PlayStation 4, so I expect them to be unless Sony issues a contrary statement.BranKetra

That part makes perfect sense if the games install. Otherwise everyone would be able to install one copy for free.

They just have to figure out a way to handle family members.

I didn't make the connection immediately but of course if there's some anti-used games system in place for the PS4, then an internet connection is almost a sure bet to be required as well. If that's the case, I'd say the differences between the X1 and the PS4 are practically zero. 

This next gen is going to blow if Sony follows Microsoft's moves. Which at this point, it wouldn't surprise me at all. 

If it's true then the Wii U is the only gaming console left. All it needs right now is some good games. Hopefully Nintendo has something good for us on E3.

[QUOTE="GalvatronType_R"]I'll say the same thing as I did for the Xbox 540: if the PS4 implements similar consumer hating DRM where customers own absolutely nothing, PEOPLE WILL STILL BUY IT ANYWAY. Gamers are not big on standing up for their rights, resisting instant gratification, etc. All the gaming companies need to do is put a shiny object or two or an empty promise or two in front of them and gamers will turn around and lift their legs like dogs in heat.RandoIphF

Amen.

And you are, without a doubt, the most useful, insightful, most hygienic, and handsomest person on this board and the rest of the internet.GalvatronType_R

Truth.

I didn't make the connection immediately but of course if there's some anti-used games system in place for the PS4, then an internet connection is almost a sure bet to be required as well. If that's the case, I'd say the differences between the X1 and the PS4 are practically zero. 

This next gen is going to blow if Sony follows Microsoft's moves. Which at this point, it wouldn't surprise me at all. 

Vari3ty

I don't know about the online requirements considering Sony has already come out against that idea before Microsoft announced their "once a day" thing.