Lost Odyssey is the best RPG in six years

I am amazed at how intelligent posters like carnage dismiss random encounters so quickly without giving thought to the consequences.

I, too, am at times annoyed by a random encounter, and I, too, know the feeling of "wtf just let me explore this dungeon already".
However, random encounters are an absolutely fantastic device for JRPGs, and though I like some of those who tried to dismiss them (XII), I will always prefer random encounters.

Not because of the way they influence my leveling up, oh no.

But simply because of dungeon design.
Every RPG dungeon that is designed to fit enemies in it so far (and I've been playing the genre quite a bit over the last two decades), every single dungeon, while perhaps being okay by itself, was leagues and leagues inferior to those of, say PSX FFs, that could be and were designed to not have actual monster in them. XIIs dungeons were gyms. All of them. Straight out of a simple cunstruction kit, but each with different textures. I enjoyed FFXIIs combat thoroughly, but would've switched without a second thought to random encounters if that would've given me my old dungeons back. Same with vagrant story, for example. Random-Encounter-Dungeons were just so much more creative and pleasent to look at; having a seperate battle-screen that does not have to match the actual dungeon / your actual position in it allows for fantastic design in the dungeon itself, and for a nice way to switch to combat in storytelling situations outside of dungeons. Now of course many of you will disagree (game X had awesome none-random-encounter-dungeons!) but I just want to make clear that there are reaons RE are not so quickly to be dismissed, saying "they have absolutely no relevance to the genre in this day and age".

For me, and I assume for many other JRPG players as well, the pre-rendered though slightly animated dungeons of the PSX FFs, combined with cinematic camera angles and no kind of HUD or on-screen-displays were the pinnacle of JRPG dungeon design, and the best and most atmospheric way to experience dungeons. Puzzles, atmosphere and exploration on screen A, actual turn-based strategic fighting on screen B, with transitions between the two every other moment. Perfect.

Liking LO is, at least in my case, not liking LO "despite of random encounters, just because of the fancy graphics", but liking LO BECAUSE it has random encounters, BECAUSE it offers a dungeon experience complete with fixed camera perspective in a quality and feeling that I couldn't have since FFIX. This isn't "meh" and "uninspired", it's noteworthy, even brave, to not go with the masses and let the type of games die that we loved so much. This isn't about the new graphics. To be honest, LOs graphics annoy me more than often because of the extremely bad key-frame-animation in most of the cutscenes.

I fail to understand how nobody seems to even notice that actual enemies on world maps and dungeons almost always go hand in hand with poor design choices, especially with the ongoing comparison between LO and XII.
It's like somebody said "Oh, I'd rather Civilization has realistic proportions and plays in real time, turn-based is just so outdated", and then developers actually do that, and it looks good and plays okay, and five years later gamers get scorned by other gamers for saying "But I liked it the old way...".

Mistwalker took a bold move in dismissing all the JRPGs cannot have XYZ anymore talk and not letting this particular kind of game inside of the genre die, and LO is a major success with dozens of gamers popping up saying "this is what I've been looking for all these years!", so it seems to me that Random Encounters / Strategic Turn-Based combat aren't so outdated and unwanted after all.

So, "Lost Odyssey is the best RPG in 6 years...." ... to many of those who think all the major changes in the jrpg genre didn't contribute all that much to the atmosphere and storytelling.

I am amazed at how intelligent posters like carnage dismiss random encounters so quickly without giving thought to the consequences.

I, too, am at times annoyed by a random encounter, and I, too, know the feeling of "wtf just let me explore this dungeon already".
However, random encounters are an absolutely fantastic device for JRPGs, and though I like some of those who tried to dismiss them (XII), I will always prefer random encounters.

Not because of the way they influence my leveling up, oh no.

But simply because of dungeon design.
Every RPG dungeon that is designed to fit enemies in it so far (and I've been playing the genre quite a bit over the last two decades), every single dungeons, while perhaps being okay by itself, was leagues and leagues inferior to those of, say PSX FFs, that could be and were designed to not have actual monster in them. XIIs dungeons were gyms. All of them. Straight out of a simple cunstruction kit, but each with different textures. I enjoyed FFXIIs combat thoroughly, but would've switched without a second thought to random encounters if that would've given me my old dungeons back. Same with vagrant story, for example. Random-Encounter-Dungeons were just so much more creative and pleasent to look at; having a seperate battle-screen that does not have to match the actual dungeon / your actual position in it allows for fantastic design in the dungeon itself, and for a nice way to switch to combat in storytelling situations outside of dungeons.

For me, and I assume for many other JRPG players as well, the pre-rendered though slightly animated dungeons of the PSX FFs, combined with cinematic camera angles and no kind of HUD or on-screen-displays were the pinnacle of JRPG dungeon design, and the best and most atmospheric way to experience dungeons. Puzzles, atmosphere and exploration on screen A, actual turn-based strategic fighting on screen B, with transitions between the two every other moment. Perfect.

Liking LO is, at least in my case, not liking LO "despite of random encounters, just because of the fancy graphics", but liking LO BECAUSE it has random encounters, BECAUSE it offers a dungeon experience complete with fixed camera perspective in a quality and feeling that I couldn't have since FFIX. This isn't "meh" and "uninspired", it's noteworthy, even brave, to not go with the masses and let the type of games die that we loved so much. This isn't about the new graphics. To be honest, LOs graphics annoy me more than often because of the extremely bad key-frame-animation in most of the cutscenes.

I fail to understand how nobody seems to even notice that actual enemies on world maps and dungeons almost always go hand in hand with poor design choices, especially with the ongoing comparison between LO and XII.
It's like somebody said "Oh, I'd rather Civilization has realistic proportions and plays in real time, turn-based is just so outdated", and then developers actually do that, and it looks good and plays okay, and five years later gamers get scorned by other gamers for saying "But I liked it the old way...".

Mistwalker took a bold move in dismissing all the JRPGs cannot have XYZ anymore talk and not letting this particular kind of game inside of the genre die, and LO is a major success with dozens of gamers popping up saying "this is what I've been looking for all these years!", so it seems to me that Random Encounters / Strategic Turn-Based combat aren't so outdated and unwanted after all.

So, "Lost Odyssey is the best RPG in 6 years...." ... to many of those who think all the major changes in the jrpg genre didn't contribute all that much to the atmosphere and storytelling.

I am amazed at how intelligent posters like carnage dismiss random encounters so quickly without giving thought to the consequences.

I, too, am at times annoyed by a random encounter, and I, too, know the feeling of "wtf just let me explore this dungeon already".
However, random encounters are an absolutely fantastic device for JRPGs, and though I like some of those who tried to dismiss them (XII), I will always prefer random encounters.

Not because of the way they influence my leveling up, oh no.

But simply because of dungeon design.
Every RPG dungeon that is designed to fit enemies in it so far (and I've been playing the genre quite a bit over the last two decades), every single dungeon, while perhaps being okay by itself, was leagues and leagues inferior to those of, say PSX FFs, that could be and were designed to not have actual monster in them. XIIs dungeons were gyms. All of them. Straight out of a simple cunstruction kit, but each with different textures. I enjoyed FFXIIs combat thoroughly, but would've switched without a second thought to random encounters if that would've given me my old dungeons back. Same with vagrant story, for example. Random-Encounter-Dungeons were just so much more creative and pleasent to look at; having a seperate battle-screen that does not have to match the actual dungeon / your actual position in it allows for fantastic design in the dungeon itself, and for a nice way to switch to combat in storytelling situations outside of dungeons. Now of course many of you will disagree (game X had awesome none-random-encounter-dungeons!) but I just want to make clear that there are reaons RE are not so quickly to be dismissed, saying "they have absolutely no relevance to the genre in this day and age".

For me, and I assume for many other JRPG players as well, the pre-rendered though slightly animated dungeons of the PSX FFs, combined with cinematic camera angles and no kind of HUD or on-screen-displays were the pinnacle of JRPG dungeon design, and the best and most atmospheric way to experience dungeons. Puzzles, atmosphere and exploration on screen A, actual turn-based strategic fighting on screen B, with transitions between the two every other moment. Perfect.

Liking LO is, at least in my case, not liking LO "despite of random encounters, just because of the fancy graphics", but liking LO BECAUSE it has random encounters, BECAUSE it offers a dungeon experience complete with fixed camera perspective in a quality and feeling that I couldn't have since FFIX. This isn't "meh" and "uninspired", it's noteworthy, even brave, to not go with the masses and let the type of games die that we loved so much. This isn't about the new graphics. To be honest, LOs graphics annoy me more than often because of the extremely bad key-frame-animation in most of the cutscenes.

I fail to understand how nobody seems to even notice that actual enemies on world maps and dungeons almost always go hand in hand with poor design choices, especially with the ongoing comparison between LO and XII.
It's like somebody said "Oh, I'd rather Civilization has realistic proportions and plays in real time, turn-based is just so outdated", and then developers actually do that, and it looks good and plays okay, and five years later gamers get scorned by other gamers for saying "But I liked it the old way...".

Mistwalker took a bold move in dismissing all the JRPGs cannot have XYZ anymore talk and not letting this particular kind of game inside of the genre die, and LO is a major success with dozens of gamers popping up saying "this is what I've been looking for all these years!", so it seems to me that Random Encounters / Strategic Turn-Based combat aren't so outdated and unwanted after all.

So, "Lost Odyssey is the best RPG in 6 years...." ... to many of those who think all the major changes in the jrpg genre didn't contribute all that much to the atmosphere and storytelling.

Lothenon

Seriously, your sentences are so jumbled up, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Maybe you should stop ridiculing others about their intelligence, like you did to me awhile ago in a thread.

I'm no native english speaker, so you might try to forgive my bad grammar / sentence structure.

However, I did not ridicule anyone, or question their intelligence. Quite the opposite. I said "intelligent posters like carnage", i.e. carnage = intelligent. I just wondered why it is that Random Encounters are looked upon in such a shallow way.

I'm no native english speaker, so you might try to forgive my bad grammar / sentence structure.

However, I did not ridicule anyone, or question their intelligence. Quite the opposite. I said "intelligent posters like carnage", i.e. carnage = intelligent. I just wondered why it is that Random Encounters are looked upon in such a shallow way.

Edit It seems the post this was a response to got deleted. Nevermind.

I am amazed at how intelligent posters like carnage dismiss random encounters so quickly without giving thought to the consequences.

I, too, am at times annoyed by a random encounter, and I, too, know the feeling of "wtf just let me explore this dungeon already".
However, random encounters are an absolutely fantastic device for JRPGs, and though I like some of those who tried to dismiss them (XII), I will always prefer random encounters.

Not because of the way they influence my leveling up, oh no.

But simply because of dungeon design.
Every RPG dungeon that is designed to fit enemies in it so far (and I've been playing the genre quite a bit over the last two decades), every single dungeon, while perhaps being okay by itself, was leagues and leagues inferior to those of, say PSX FFs, that could be and were designed to not have actual monster in them. XIIs dungeons were gyms. All of them. Straight out of a simple cunstruction kit, but each with different textures. I enjoyed FFXIIs combat thoroughly, but would've switched without a second thought to random encounters if that would've given me my old dungeons back. Same with vagrant story, for example. Random-Encounter-Dungeons were just so much more creative and pleasent to look at; having a seperate battle-screen that does not have to match the actual dungeon / your actual position in it allows for fantastic design in the dungeon itself, and for a nice way to switch to combat in storytelling situations outside of dungeons. Now of course many of you will disagree (game X had awesome none-random-encounter-dungeons!) but I just want to make clear that there are reaons RE are not so quickly to be dismissed, saying "they have absolutely no relevance to the genre in this day and age".

For me, and I assume for many other JRPG players as well, the pre-rendered though slightly animated dungeons of the PSX FFs, combined with cinematic camera angles and no kind of HUD or on-screen-displays were the pinnacle of JRPG dungeon design, and the best and most atmospheric way to experience dungeons. Puzzles, atmosphere and exploration on screen A, actual turn-based strategic fighting on screen B, with transitions between the two every other moment. Perfect.

Liking LO is, at least in my case, not liking LO "despite of random encounters, just because of the fancy graphics", but liking LO BECAUSE it has random encounters, BECAUSE it offers a dungeon experience complete with fixed camera perspective in a quality and feeling that I couldn't have since FFIX. This isn't "meh" and "uninspired", it's noteworthy, even brave, to not go with the masses and let the type of games die that we loved so much. This isn't about the new graphics. To be honest, LOs graphics annoy me more than often because of the extremely bad key-frame-animation in most of the cutscenes.

I fail to understand how nobody seems to even notice that actual enemies on world maps and dungeons almost always go hand in hand with poor design choices, especially with the ongoing comparison between LO and XII.
It's like somebody said "Oh, I'd rather Civilization has realistic proportions and plays in real time, turn-based is just so outdated", and then developers actually do that, and it looks good and plays okay, and five years later gamers get scorned by other gamers for saying "But I liked it the old way...".

Mistwalker took a bold move in dismissing all the JRPGs cannot have XYZ anymore talk and not letting this particular kind of game inside of the genre die, and LO is a major success with dozens of gamers popping up saying "this is what I've been looking for all these years!", so it seems to me that Random Encounters / Strategic Turn-Based combat aren't so outdated and unwanted after all.

So, "Lost Odyssey is the best RPG in 6 years...." ... to many of those who think all the major changes in the jrpg genre didn't contribute all that much to the atmosphere and storytelling.

Lothenon

Once again, I have no problem with turn based games I just have a problem with turn based rpgs (which have been with us since the 8 bit days and have seen a lot of improvements since those days) which don't do anything new. Shadow Hearts 2, Persona 3, FF12, FFX-2, FFX and SMT: Nocturne are all turn based rpgs I greatly enjoyed.

FF12's dungeons were wider than most (most rpgs have a single character walking along, not the whole party, and transition to a new screen when combat starts so they don't need to worry about room for manuever), but they weren't lacking in variety. Vagrant Story's dungeons were a little lacking in variety, but it was a fully polygonal game on the PS1 with sharp (by the standards of the day) textures, so I cut it some slack (to tell the truth the only thing about VS that bothered me was the abundance of box puzzles). And like I said before, it was really cool how one might find your party facing off against a couple monsters in an area in FF12. Honestly, I don't have a deep problem with rpgs that transport one's party to 'battleland' provided the combat system is interesting but all things being equal...

As for prerendered graphics, they made sense back when the polygon juggling ability of systems was extremely limited, but last gen games such as DMC3, Otogi 2, Halo, FFX, FF12, RE4, MGS3, Shadow Hearts 2 and Okami created such impressive polygonal characters and environments that I don't see a point in developers hoarding polygons for characters. And the PS3 and X360 are orders of magnitude more powerful. Since any artist's vision can be realized in polygons and given that polygonal constructions can have more interactivity than their 2D counterparts there is no point in rendered backgrounds.

Before vagrant story, there was Parasite Eve which plays just like FF12 right now. I wouldn't say FF12 found a solution to the annoying random enoucnters. Persona 3 and Valkyrie Profile 2 are still the best JRPGs which deals with such an issue.

But "battle lands" reduce random enemies enoucnter because in FF12 enemies kept coming from everywhere and killed my party members even though I was only exploring and looking for treasure!

Before vagrant story, there was Parasite Eve which plays just like FF12 right now. I wouldn't say FF12 found a solution to the annoying random enoucnters. Persona 3 and Valkyrie Profile 2 are still the best JRPGs which deals with such an issue.

But "battle lands" reduce random enemies enoucnter because in FF12 enemies kept coming from everywhere and killed my party members even though I was only exploring and looking for treasure!

gamingqueen

Having read this thread, I'm surprised that Blue Dragon hasn't been mentioned yet. It is the other JRPG made by Mistwalker. They didn't have random encounters but the game did require you to travel to battleland. One you got into a certain range of the enemy in-game, you could pull off an area attack for a first hit. You could also group enemies and have multiple encounters, with higher stakes should you choose too. You could also pull off area attacks with them before you went into battle.

There was also a slot mechanic between encounters (in multiple encounter scenarios) where you could be given many different advantageous and disadvantageous effects. This system bridges Final Fantasy 12 and traditional turn based fighting, and allowed players to escape from unwanted fights as well as offering something different for traditional turn based scraps. And there were no random encounters.

Lost Odyssey changes things again. Not all games require change or to change for the sake of change to be good. An incremental change can still be refreshing given the games attitude towards the genre. Gears of War and World of Warcraft could ardly be called changing te genre, but they both happened to get GOTY from Gamespot because they were very good at what they do.

You don't need to change for the sake of change, but you do need to bring something to your game to get people interested. Otherwise, we'd all be playing Space Invaders 1238.

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

Before vagrant story, there was Parasite Eve which plays just like FF12 right now. I wouldn't say FF12 found a solution to the annoying random enoucnters. Persona 3 and Valkyrie Profile 2 are still the best JRPGs which deals with such an issue.

But "battle lands" reduce random enemies enoucnter because in FF12 enemies kept coming from everywhere and killed my party members even though I was only exploring and looking for treasure!

Sagacious_Tien

Having read this thread, I'm surprised that Blue Dragon hasn't been mentioned yet. It is the other JRPG made by Mistwalker. They didn't have random encounters but the game did require you to travel to battleland. One you got into a certain range of the enemy in-game, you could pull off an area attack for a first hit. You could also group enemies and have multiple encounters, with higher stakes should you choose too. You could also pull off area attacks with them before you went into battle.

There was also a slot mechanic between encounters (in multiple encounter scenarios) where you could be given many different advantageous and disadvantageous effects. This system bridges Final Fantasy 12 and traditional turn based fighting, and allowed players to escape from unwanted fights as well as offering something different for traditional turn based scraps. And there were no random encounters.

Lost Odyssey changes things again. Not all games require change or to change for the sake of change to be good. An incremental change can still be refreshing given the games attitude towards the genre. Gears of War and World of Warcraft could ardly be called changing te genre, but they both happened to get GOTY from Gamespot because they were very good at what they do.

You don't need to change for the sake of change, but you do need to bring something to your game to get people interested. Otherwise, we'd all be playing Space Invaders 1238.

That's where your argument falls apart. The reason those games are awesome is because they did something different. World of Warcraft revamped the whole MMO experiance to make it friendly for everybody, and Gears of War pulled off an awesome cover system in a game that doesn't play like anything else out there. If you think those games only brought incremental change, than I would have to get out an electron microscope to tell the difference between LO and those kind of RPGs from 10 years ago.

I really like Lost Odyssey. Its a solid JRPG. I do get annoyed with the slow parts of the game such as:

[spoiler] Cooke and Mack going against the snowstorm, Seth running through water in the sewers, Kaim crossing that mountain with the wind in his face. [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="Lothenon"]

But simply because of dungeon design.
Every RPG dungeon that is designed to fit enemies in it so far (and I've been playing the genre quite a bit over the last two decades), every single dungeon, while perhaps being okay by itself, was leagues and leagues inferior to those of, say PSX FFs, that could be and were designed to not have actual monster in them. XIIs dungeons were gyms. All of them. Straight out of a simple cunstruction kit, but each with different textures. I enjoyed FFXIIs combat thoroughly, but would've switched without a second thought to random encounters if that would've given me my old dungeons back. Same with vagrant story, for example. Random-Encounter-Dungeons were just so much more creative and pleasent to look at; having a seperate battle-screen that does not have to match the actual dungeon / your actual position in it allows for fantastic design in the dungeon itself, and for a nice way to switch to combat in storytelling situations outside of dungeons. Now of course many of you will disagree (game X had awesome none-random-encounter-dungeons!) but I just want to make clear that there are reaons RE are not so quickly to be dismissed, saying "they have absolutely no relevance to the genre in this day and age".

For me, and I assume for many other JRPG players as well, the pre-rendered though slightly animated dungeons of the PSX FFs, combined with cinematic camera angles and no kind of HUD or on-screen-displays were the pinnacle of JRPG dungeon design, and the best and most atmospheric way to experience dungeons. Puzzles, atmosphere and exploration on screen A, actual turn-based strategic fighting on screen B, with transitions between the two every other moment. Perfect.

Liking LO is, at least in my case, not liking LO "despite of random encounters, just because of the fancy graphics", but liking LO BECAUSE it has random encounters, BECAUSE it offers a dungeon experience complete with fixed camera perspective in a quality and feeling that I couldn't have since FFIX. This isn't "meh" and "uninspired", it's noteworthy, even brave, to not go with the masses and let the type of games die that we loved so much. This isn't about the new graphics. To be honest, LOs graphics annoy me more than often because of the extremely bad key-frame-animation in most of the cutscenes.

CarnageHeart

I prefer random encounters as well, partly for the reasons you described. There are some games that don't have them that I like, Persona 3 is probably the best of these, but it doesn't include any puzzles in its dungeons at all. I'm a gamer that started out on cIassic adventure games, and as such I'll always feel a little lost without any puzzle solving. ;) Likewise, FFXII didn't have any significant puzzle solving in its dungeons either. A couple of small ones, but nothing to sit and scratch your head over.

Real-Time battles are better for puzzle solving dungeons, see practically every Zelda game for details. :P Just clear out all the baddies and there you go.

The biggest thing I don't like about the "touch a monster, go to battleland" system is that you often don't know what you're fighting until you get there, and isn't that supposed to be the point of allowing you the option of not fighting? Games like this include Persona 3 (all enemies look the same on the field, except for the gold one), Paper Mario 1&2 (You hammer a Goomba and you wind up fighting a goomba, two pink fuzzies and a shy guy), and Star Ocean 3 (again, you see one enemy on the field, but you get several in combat). I think this kind of defeats the purpose of being able to avoid some encounters, since you might very much want to avoid a monster you're particularly week against, but you can't because you never know when it's going to pop up in a "party" with something else that's an easy kill.

But simply because of dungeon design. Every RPG dungeon that is designed to fit enemies in it so far (and I've been playing the genre quite a bit over the last two decades), every single dungeon, while perhaps being okay by itself, was leagues and leagues inferior to those of, say PSX FFs, that could be and were designed to not have actual monster in them. XIIs dungeons were gyms. All of them. Straight out of a simple cunstruction kit, but each with different textures. I enjoyed FFXIIs combat thoroughly, but would've switched without a second thought to random encounters if that would've given me my old dungeons back. Same with vagrant story, for example. Random-Encounter-Dungeons were just so much more creative and pleasent to look at; having a seperate battle-screen that does not have to match the actual dungeon / your actual position in it allows for fantastic design in the dungeon itself, and for a nice way to switch to combat in storytelling situations outside of dungeons. Now of course many of you will disagree (game X had awesome none-random-encounter-dungeons!) but I just want to make clear that there are reaons RE are not so quickly to be dismissed, saying "they have absolutely no relevance to the genre in this day and age".

For me, and I assume for many other JRPG players as well, the pre-rendered though slightly animated dungeons of the PSX FFs, combined with cinematic camera angles and no kind of HUD or on-screen-displays were the pinnacle of JRPG dungeon design, and the best and most atmospheric way to experience dungeons. Puzzles, atmosphere and exploration on screen A, actual turn-based strategic fighting on screen B, with transitions between the two every other moment. Perfect.

Liking LO is, at least in my case, not liking LO "despite of random encounters, just because of the fancy graphics", but liking LO BECAUSE it has random encounters, BECAUSE it offers a dungeon experience complete with fixed camera perspective in a quality and feeling that I couldn't have since FFIX. This isn't "meh" and "uninspired", it's noteworthy, even brave, to not go with the masses and let the type of games die that we loved so much. This isn't about the new graphics. To be honest, LOs graphics annoy me more than often because of the extremely bad key-frame-animation in most of the cutscenes.

Lothenon

I prefer random encounters as well, partly for the reasons you described. There are some games that don't have them that I like, Persona 3 is probably the best of these, but it doesn't include any puzzles in its dungeons at all. I'm a gamer that started out on cIassic adventure games, and as such I'll always feel a little lost without any puzzle solving. ;) Likewise, FFXII didn't have any significant puzzle solving in its dungeons either. A couple of small ones, but nothing to sit and scratch your head over.

Real-Time battles are better for puzzle solving dungeons, see practically every Zelda game for details. :P Just clear out all the baddies and there you go.

The biggest thing I don't like about the "touch a monster, go to battleland" system is that you often don't know what you're fighting until you get there, and isn't that supposed to be the point of allowing you the option of not fighting? Games like this include Persona 3 (all enemies look the same on the field, except for the gold one), Paper Mario 1&2 (You hammer a Goomba and you wind up fighting a goomba, two pink fuzzies and a shy guy), and Star Ocean 3 (again, you see one enemy on the field, but you get several in combat). I think this kind of defeats the purpose of being able to avoid some encounters, since you might very much want to avoid a monster you're particularly week against, but you can't because you never know when it's going to pop up in a "party" with something else that's an easy kill.

I love it, and if it didn't have so many technical difficulties, I'd love it even more. I'm at about 53 hours and not far from the end of the game, and I have this sinking feeling it's going to be the last true turn-based RPG...the entire industry seems to be stuck in a real-time rut.

I still believe Lost Odyssey boasts some of the best writing I've ever seen in video games, although I'm limiting this to the short stories we find in the dreams. It almost seems as if a different person was writing the script, because that's nowhere near as good. There's a distinct political agenda with some of the later dreams, though - slanted heavily to the left - and I didn't appreciate that, but they're still very well done. The story is good, the pacing is a little iffy but still solid, and I'm a big fan of the gameplay. Really, these are just the types of RPGs I love.

But I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the best RPG in the last 6 years. That's discounting most all PS2 RPGs (with the exception of FFX, which came out at the end of 2001), and I really don't think LO is better than FFXII, DQVIII, Suikoden III and V, Shadow Hearts: Covenant, SMT:N, etc. I think LO is certainly in par with those games, but not any better, especially when compared to FFXII. I haven't seen much in the way of real-time RPG combat that has advanced significantly in the past 6 years, though, and I'm sad to see the trend that believes it's the only way to go with this genre.

Bottom line- I think gamers have less patience than ever, and the more we're attacked by media that is focused on faster and faster-moving imagery, and the more we're assaulted by games that cater to the twitch-gamer crowd, the more we need the real-time combat. The attention spans of people seem to be dropping at an alarming rate, and I've known people who can't even sit through 10 seconds of loading time without freaking out. Lost Odyssey requires some patience in the combat (and dear God, there's READING!), which is why it may not appeal to as many people these days. But we don't really need to sacrifice this style, do we?

I love it, and if it didn't have so many technical difficulties, I'd love it even more. I'm at about 53 hours and not far from the end of the game, and I have this sinking feeling it's going to be the last true turn-based RPG...the entire industry seems to be stuck in a real-time rut.

I still believe Lost Odyssey boasts some of the best writing I've ever seen in video games, although I'm limiting this to the short stories we find in the dreams. It almost seems as if a different person was writing the script, because that's nowhere near as good. There's a distinct political agenda with some of the later dreams, though - slanted heavily to the left - and I didn't appreciate that, but they're still very well done. The story is good, the pacing is a little iffy but still solid, and I'm a big fan of the gameplay. Really, these are just the types of RPGs I love.

But I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the best RPG in the last 6 years. That's discounting most all PS2 RPGs (with the exception of FFX, which came out at the end of 2001), and I really don't think LO is better than FFXII, DQVIII, Suikoden III and V, Shadow Hearts: Covenant, SMT:N, etc. I think LO is certainly in par with those games, but not any better, especially when compared to FFXII. I haven't seen much in the way of real-time RPG combat that has advanced significantly in the past 6 years, though, and I'm sad to see the trend that believes it's the only way to go with this genre.

Bottom line- I think gamers have less patience than ever, and the more we're attacked by media that is focused on faster and faster-moving imagery, and the more we're assaulted by games that cater to the twitch-gamer crowd, the more we need the real-time combat. The attention spans of people seem to be dropping at an alarming rate, and I've known people who can't even sit through 10 seconds of loading time without freaking out. Lost Odyssey requires some patience in the combat (and dear God, there's READING!), which is why it may not appeal to as many people these days. But we don't really need to sacrifice this style, do we?

fathoms_basic

I'm not totally sure about the sales of the game, but I'm pretty sure I heard it was doing all right. If they are making money off of it, there will be more games like it. Turn-based RPGs aren't for sure on the path to being the next adventure or top-down shooter, and we even see some of those. On that note, buy Ikaruga on Xbox Live, because that game is dope!

[QUOTE="fathoms_basic"]

I love it, and if it didn't have so many technical difficulties, I'd love it even more. I'm at about 53 hours and not far from the end of the game, and I have this sinking feeling it's going to be the last true turn-based RPG...the entire industry seems to be stuck in a real-time rut.

I still believe Lost Odyssey boasts some of the best writing I've ever seen in video games, although I'm limiting this to the short stories we find in the dreams. It almost seems as if a different person was writing the script, because that's nowhere near as good. There's a distinct political agenda with some of the later dreams, though - slanted heavily to the left - and I didn't appreciate that, but they're still very well done. The story is good, the pacing is a little iffy but still solid, and I'm a big fan of the gameplay. Really, these are just the types of RPGs I love.

But I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the best RPG in the last 6 years. That's discounting most all PS2 RPGs (with the exception of FFX, which came out at the end of 2001), and I really don't think LO is better than FFXII, DQVIII, Suikoden III and V, Shadow Hearts: Covenant, SMT:N, etc. I think LO is certainly in par with those games, but not any better, especially when compared to FFXII. I haven't seen much in the way of real-time RPG combat that has advanced significantly in the past 6 years, though, and I'm sad to see the trend that believes it's the only way to go with this genre.

Bottom line- I think gamers have less patience than ever, and the more we're attacked by media that is focused on faster and faster-moving imagery, and the more we're assaulted by games that cater to the twitch-gamer crowd, the more we need the real-time combat. The attention spans of people seem to be dropping at an alarming rate, and I've known people who can't even sit through 10 seconds of loading time without freaking out. Lost Odyssey requires some patience in the combat (and dear God, there's READING!), which is why it may not appeal to as many people these days. But we don't really need to sacrifice this style, do we?

AtomicTangerine

I'm not totally sure about the sales of the game, but I'm pretty sure I heard it was doing all right. If they are making money off of it, there will be more games like it. Turn-based RPGs aren't for sure on the path to being the next adventure or top-down shooter, and we even see some of those. On that note, buy Ikaruga on Xbox Live, because that game is dope!

I would, but I really suck at those games. :oops:

Anyway, I have heard there'd be a sequel to LO, but I'm just saying...the turn-based format seems to be on the way out, and that's just plain depressing. It's my favorite. :(

There is no confirmed sequel to Lost Odyssey, though Blue Dragon is getting a side story on DS and is rumoured to be getting a sequel.

Turn based games are actually making something of a renaissance in handhelds though, and turn based games are coming to consoles as well.

Sales of Lost Odyssey are good enough to justify more titles of it's ilk - possibly in sequels.

Also, to answer your question, The Thousand Year Dream was written by someone else than Mistwalker, so that's why it has a different feel to the rest of the game's story.

Absolutely excellent thread, guys. I think you've sold me on Lost Odyessey. All I need now is some time to play it.
I am sad that there's so much negativity torwards Mass Effect, though. I absolutely loved that game, texture pop-up, poor combat and all. :)Dire_Weasel

I don't think I'd say that Lost Odyssey is the best RPG I've played in the last six years but I would definately say that it ranks very high amongst many of the other great RPGs I've played and seems to have been under-rated from the critics. The game has a very well-written storyline and moves at a very nice pace thanks to the lower encounter rate and the way the leveling-up system works. It also has some excellent and very cool enemy design and animation.

I don't really understand alot of the negativity towards Mass Effect either. I've poured over 200 hours into that game and loved every minute of it. I absolutely loved the story in the game and the voice acting was top-notch and had a blast with the combat in the game. Texture pop-in was very ugly. The worst glitches that I ran into in all the time I put into the game was becoming stuck between a survey pole and the rocks I was surveying but that only happened maybe 3 or 4 times in all my gameplay time and while it was slightly annoying it was easily remedied by going back to the ship and then heading back down to the planet.

[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]

I don't really understand alot of the negativity towards Mass Effect either. I've poured over 200 hours into that game and loved every minute of it. I absolutely loved the story in the game and the voice acting was top-notch and had a blast with the combat in the game. Texture pop-in was very ugly. The worst glitches that I ran into in all the time I put into the game was becoming stuck between a survey pole and the rocks I was surveying but that only happened maybe 3 or 4 times in all my gameplay time and while it was slightly annoying it was easily remedied by going back to the ship and then heading back down to the planet.

fathoms_basic

I think it's just a matter of personal preference. While I recognize the game's inherent quality, I just couldn't get into Mass Effect. I REALLY tried, I promise you. I was very excited when the game came out, and I was really hoping for a game I would consider to be the best RPG of the generation so far (and maybe the best game of 2007). But no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't get into the gameplay. I found it to be boring and simplistic; something that could've been done 10 years ago without much difficulty. The story and characters were fantastic - from what I saw - but the battle just bored me to tears. I really couldn't tell you why...it just did.

On the other hand, I almost always enjoy battles in Lost Odyssey. And I have played other real-time RPGs that I liked a great deal (Kingdom Hearts, Champions of Norrath, etc.), but Mass Effect just didn't do it for me.

My friends told me this was a good game and i really just need a second opinion on this game.

Is it worth buying or not?

My friends told me this was a good game and i really just need a second opinion on this game.

Is it worth buying or not?

P90stein

Isn't the 3 pages of opinions here enough to make a decision?

[QUOTE="P90stein"]

My friends told me this was a good game and i really just need a second opinion on this game.

Is it worth buying or not?

TheCrazed420

Isn't the 3 pages of opinions here enough to make a decision?

[QUOTE="TheCrazed420"][QUOTE="P90stein"]

My friends told me this was a good game and i really just need a second opinion on this game.

Is it worth buying or not?

Sagacious_Tien

Isn't the 3 pages of opinions here enough to make a decision?

Yeah, a lot of the bad reviews were from technical problems that aren't on the retail discs. Seriously, this game would have done way better if the review copies weren't all messed up.

[QUOTE="Sagacious_Tien"][QUOTE="TheCrazed420"][QUOTE="P90stein"]

My friends told me this was a good game and i really just need a second opinion on this game.

Is it worth buying or not?

AtomicTangerine

Isn't the 3 pages of opinions here enough to make a decision?

Yeah, a lot of the bad reviews were from technical problems that aren't on the retail discs. Seriously, this game would have done way better if the review copies weren't all messed up.

There are still issues, though. I'm wondering if I can even beat the game...I can't get through the final level without the game freezing up. :( This only started on the fourth disc, but it's unbelievably annoying and I'm not sure if there's anything I can do about it. I LOATHE the Xbox 360 and its software sometimes.

TC, The game is great, The thing I actually really liked about LO is the voice acting, it was top notch and the dreams, overall, it reminded me of the good old days ofhow games used to be, JRPGs to be exact.

But calling it the best in 6 years is ignorance, Last gen had alot of amazing JRPGs if you compare them with LO's story and gameplay, they are all better, Im not knocking the game, but there is better games.

I'll list some games that I've played last gen that all better and brought new ideas:

Kingdom hearts, it is an action RPG which provided alot of new gameplay mechanics, an amazing mixing of characters and great story, you have Valkyrie Profile 2, one of the best JRPG last gen, it has a better story, better gameplay and better overall characters, presentation...etc, Suikoden 3 was almost perfect, perfect music, a story better than LO, the gameplay is always better than regular turn based games, and the infamous 108 characters to choose from.

Final Fantasy XII, alot of people says it is not of FF series quality which is right from a story, characters and character development prospective, but that does not mean it is a bad JRPG, it is only a bad FF game, to compare it with LO, gameplay wise, it is waaaaaaay better in every aspect

You also have the Tales series, Tales of Legendia and Tales of the Abyss are also top notch.

I didn't play Persona 3 and Nocturne, but I hear alot of people who praise them as their favorites, there is also Crisis Core, I've played it a little bit, but I can assure you, it is better than LO, I only wish that I have a PSP to play it, and I forgot also about Monster hunter.

LO is linear, the skill system is weak, everything easy to get, Leveling up is also an easy task to do, kill in every new area 10 enemies and you are done, Im not going to knock the battle gameplay mechanic because I don't mind it.

It is the best JRPG on consoles this gen so far, the problem is, there are few JRPGs and RPGs in general to compare with it this gen, there is a drought in RPGs this gen and games in general, but I think we will see alot of RPGs coming from next year.

And you know what? Im sure that "the last remnant" will be much better than LO.

im not slaggin the newer final fantasy's because I loved them but they didnt have the same impact on me as 7 8 and 9. ive played on lost odyssey for ten hours now and the soundtrack and style of the game has brought back so many great memories. Most of them remineding me of FF8 ( think its the style of the artwork and music )

overall amazing game upto now!!!!