Neo Geo vs 3DO?

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]Well, all of Yu Suzuki games with the exception of Shenmue I & II and Propeller Arena were arcade games. That should give an idea.

Hell, it was games like Space Harrier and Hang-ON that made the SEGA we now exist in the first place.

I remember reading an interview in a mid or late 90's EGM mag (before the DC came out) and a SEGA staffer told them that DAYTONA USA alone had made more money for the company than all of the Sonic games released up until that point in time combined.

The main branch even was willing to finance them another console, but the western divisions wouldn't have it.

If SEGA relied on the consumer division, they would've left the scene completely with the SS.

Of course us fans couldn't feature SEGA without the consumer division. But business-wise, even the Mega Drive was only a moderate success, comparatively.

godzillavskong

even propeller Arena is very arcade like in its gameplay.

and its pretty obvious the arcade division got alot of funding, considering most of Sega's arcade hardware was usually the best in the business, usually a few years ahead of other arcade machines and quite a bit ahead of home systems.

and before anybody says, no , Namco's system 12 was not as capable as the model 2 , its good with effects but in terms of sheer polygon pushing the model 2 was unbeaten for a while, and only really outdone by the model 3, which again is a Sega machine, which was outdone by NAOMI, another Sega machine.

so yeah , Sega's arcade division were always ahead of everything else, and had the funding to back it up

the only big issue for the arcade division was that arcades were in decline since the mid 90s in the west, and pretty much dead by 2000, regardless of the situation in Japan.

never played Battle Monsters though it doesn't seem so impressive, just a poor Mortal Kombat clone by the looks of it . ill give them credit on the animation though , its pretty good

pretty much anything made directly by Akklaim on the Saturn sucks, unless they only published it (like children of the atom), Alien Trilogy is alright though

pretty much anything made directly by Akklaim on the Saturn sucks, unless they only published it (like children of the atom), Alien Trilogy is alright though

Darkman2007

Revolution X is also pretty decent on the Saturn, but that was developed by Midway and the game is still B-Movie material.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

pretty much anything made directly by Akklaim on the Saturn sucks, unless they only published it (like children of the atom), Alien Trilogy is alright though

KillerJuan77

Revolution X is also pretty decent on the Saturn, but that was developed by Midway and the game is still B-Movie material.

just to show what I mean

Fifa98 Saturn

Fifa 98 PS1

sadly the PS1 pic is a bit blurry.

now what if I told you the Saturn version runs at 10-15 fps nearly all the time?

the sad part is that at the same time as this , there were football games on the Saturn from both Tecmo and Sega which looked alot better then Fifa98 Saturn , and frankly give the Fifa98 PS1 a run for its money (in alot of ways they are actually better)

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

No, your missing my whole point, and that's why your coming off of as a one-sided fanboy. There's no debate to be had, so I don't need to learn to debate. I don't hate Saturn, but your trying to start an argument with me over it anyways. Let if freaking go.

Darkman2007

Really? Are you serious? You want to sit here and tell me I'm insulting you? You've got some nerve. You're telling me how I feel about something (Sega Saturn), and I'm telling you no that's not true that I like Saturn. Then you want to turn around and tell me why I'm wrong about my own feelings. All because I don't have as big of a collection as you on Saturn games. And to top it all off, I'm not even trying to argue with you but you're trying to make an argument anyways. And just because you throw smiley faces after it doesn't make it a-okay. But I'm the jerk, right.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

No, your missing my whole point, and that's why your coming off of as a one-sided fanboy. There's no debate to be had, so I don't need to learn to debate. I don't hate Saturn, but your trying to start an argument with me over it anyways. Let if freaking go.

Emerald_Warrior

Really? Are you serious? You want to sit here and tell me I'm insulting you? You've got some nerve. You're telling me how I feel about something (Sega Saturn), and I'm telling you no that's not true that I like Saturn. Then you want to turn around and tell me why I'm wrong about my own feelings. All because I don't have as big of a collection as you on Saturn games. And to top it all off, I'm not even trying to argue with you but you're trying to make an argument anyways. And just because you throw smiley faces after it doesn't make it a-okay. But I'm the jerk, right.

see there you go , inventing words to justify your claim

when did I ever say you dislike the system? never have I said so , you invented that.

all I said, was that this was your opinion regarding 2 aspects of the system , as said by you (I don't invent words like you just did) and that I believe you are wrong and said why I think so, at the same time, I said I fully respect your opinion even if I think you are wrong.

youre the one who took it the wrong way as some sort of attack on you personally,

and again , when did I call you a jerk? or any insult? see again , youre inventing things.

quote me if you like, but do not invent things I never said and blame me for them , thats lying, and as you know, its quite morally incorrect.

if you read above I actually said "Im quite happy youre having fun with the Saturn".

yeah.....Im really telling you that you dislike the system.......

come on , plain English right there.

when I said I prefered the Saturn's fighting game library, you basically said I was wrong , or at least that you disagreed with me (although by the tone of that arguement there was little respect in it) .

did I take it personally? did I insult you multiple times like you did to me? no , I simply explained my opinion , simple as that.

now I didn't even ask you to reply, and yet the only thing you did was invent things , and then throw insults left and right.

What aren't you getting here? There was never an argument. It's all in your head. You're going as far as pulling stuff from old threads the way a wife would do to their husband pulling things from old arguments. You're then using that to try and paint a picture that I don't like Saturn then arguing with me as if I was somehow arguing with you through those old threads and telling me that I think Saturn is "inferior", excuse me if I said "didn't like" instead of "inferior" like it's some big difference. Everything you're talking about that I said are from other freaking threads. When I tell you "I like the Saturn", you go on and continue to argue with as to how I still feel it's inferior based on my game library. All you're doing is making me angry, not "debating" with me. You almost make want to scream at you that Saturn sucks just because your being so dang pompous about it all.

THERE IS NO ARGUMENT AND I LIKE SATURN MOVE THE HECK ON ALREADY!!!

What aren't you getting here? There was never an argument. It's all in your head. You're going as far as pulling stuff from old threads the way a wife would do to their husband pulling things from old arguments. You're then using that to try and paint a picture that I don't like Saturn then arguing with me as if I was somehow arguing with you through those old threads and telling me that I think Saturn is "inferior", excuse me if I said "didn't like" instead of "inferior" like it's some big difference. Everything you're talking about that I said are from other freaking threads. When I tell you "I like the Saturn", you go on and continue to argue with as to how I still feel it's inferior based on my game library. All you're doing is making me angry, not "debating" with me. You almost make want to scream at you that Saturn sucks just because your being so dang pompous about it all.

THERE IS NO ARGUMENT AND I LIKE SATURN MOVE THE HECK ON ALREADY!!!

Emerald_Warrior

who says Im pulling things out of old threads? its known as a good memory :P , interesting analogy though , never knew wives do that :P

and what are you not getting here? when did I ever say you dislike the Saturn? again inventions on your part just so can can call me a fanboy.

there have been many useful inventions in history, but inventing things I said is not one of those :P.

and since when am I pompous about it? its called opinion , youre free to tell me your opinion regarding anything you want or if you think Im wrong about something, and I doubt I would take it personally like you do.

again , argueing and giving an opinion are two very different things, youre mixing it up so for the last time, I did not want an argument with you, that is your invention , I simply stated my opnion on why I think you are wrong, while you took it way too far

and its pretty obvious youre taking things way too seriously , I would advise you to cool down and have a glass of water or something, youre the one going berserk here , not me .

At any rate, Im not going to sit here and argue with you on why you or me want to argue with each other, we will leave it at that.

now what if I told you the Saturn version runs at 10-15 fps nearly all the time?

Darkman2007

So it's like Enemy Zero on the FMV sequences? Ouch!

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

now what if I told you the Saturn version runs at 10-15 fps nearly all the time?

KillerJuan77

So it's like Enemy Zero on the FMV sequences? Ouch!

[/QUOTE

] its like recording a football match and running the DVD in slow motion sometimes.

there are times when its faster, but generally its not. if you want a good Football game on the Saturn , get Go Go Goal , it looks , runs and plays much better, the only problem is that its got Japan only teams.

just for comparison

Fifa 98 Saturn

Go Go Goal

keep in mind Go Go Goal is a few months older then Fifa98

[QUOTE="KillerJuan77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

pretty much anything made directly by Akklaim on the Saturn sucks, unless they only published it (like children of the atom), Alien Trilogy is alright though

Darkman2007

Revolution X is also pretty decent on the Saturn, but that was developed by Midway and the game is still B-Movie material.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="KillerJuan77"]

Revolution X is also pretty decent on the Saturn, but that was developed by Midway and the game is still B-Movie material.

godzillavskong

with EA it was simply them making their games for the PS1, and then doing a sloppy port to the Saturn.

as for top 10 ..... Im usually weary of giving top 10s because they will sometimes change. but 10 games I would go for in no particular order

1 , Panzer Dragoon Saga

2. Burning Rangers

3. Street Fighter Zero/Alpha 3

4. X-Men Vs Street Fighter (Marvel Vs Street Fighter as well)

5 . Dead Or Alive

6 . Nights Into Dreams (3D controller is almost a must)

7. Grandia

8 Daytona USA CE (get the JPN version , the US/PAL version has control issues and iffy music)

9 . Deep Fear

10 . Virtua Fighter 2

other good ones include , Shining Force 3 ep 1/2/3 , Last Bronx , Resident Evil . Sega Rally, Shutokou Battle 97 , Lunar and Lunar 2 , Winter Heat, Decathlete , Anarchy in the Nippon , Vampire Savior (Darkstalkers 3) , Bulk Slash , Quake , Duke Nukem 3D and alot of other ones too.

note I didn't take price into account, some of these can cost alot, especially in their US/PAL versions, JPN version might be cheaper , also some are Japanese RPGs, but its up to you which ones to get.

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] Akklaim and EA are the culprits from some of the most lazy games on the system , I had very little respect for Akklaim anyways, but the fact EA ruined alot of their Saturn games really was a poor effort on their part. the only exception to this was Soviet Strike, because EA handed the Saturn port to a developer call Tiburon , who did such a good job , the Saturn version is actually better then the PS1 version (yes I own both) play the likes of Fifa 98 on the Saturn (or most of their late Saturn games actually) and it will make you cry, its that bad.Darkman2007

with EA it was simply them making their games for the PS1, and then doing a sloppy port to the Saturn.

as for top 10 ..... Im usually weary of giving top 10s because they will sometimes change. but 10 games I would go for in no particular order

1 , Panzer Dragoon Saga

2. Burning Rangers

3. Street Fighter Zero/Alpha 3

4. X-Men Vs Street Fighter (Marvel Vs Street Fighter as well)

5 . Dead Or Alive

6 . Nights Into Dreams (3D controller is almost a must)

7. Grandia

8 Daytona USA CE (get the JPN version , the US/PAL version has control issues and iffy music)

9 . Deep Fear

10 . Virtua Fighter 2

other good ones include , Shining Force 3 ep 1/2/3 , Last Bronx , Resident Evil . Sega Rally, Shutokou Battle 97 , Lunar and Lunar 2 , Winter Heat, Decathlete , Anarchy in the Nippon , Vampire Savior (Darkstalkers 3) , Bulk Slash , Quake , Duke Nukem 3D and alot of other ones too.

note I didn't take price into account, some of these can cost alot, especially in their US/PAL versions, JPN version might be cheaper , also some are Japanese RPGs, but its up to you which ones to get.

Even the Japanese version of DAYTONA USA CCE doesn't handle as great as the first one. In spite of the shoddy graphics, DAYTONA USA is amazingly fun and a must-have SS game in my opinion.

Deep Fear is a pretty awesome survival-horror game. The Japanese version is inexpensive and is in English, like the Bio Hazard games.

The characters are totally forgettable though, and the main character couldn't have been more generic, that's the main flaw of the game. But still, the setting and gameplay make one hell of a survival horror.

I also recommend Enemy Zero, though it is also on PC with some minor improvements. It has a better looking 3D corridor graphics, but the FMVs look better on the SS.

Another similarly overlooked game is Torico.

I also recommend Enemy Zero, though it is also on PC with some minor improvements. It has a better looking 3D corridor graphics, but the FMVs look better on the SS.

Another similarly overlooked game is Torico.

Panzer_Zwei

I don't really recommend it though, the game is a frustrating, slow and short (Even though the game tries to extend it's length by adding handicaps to you like limited load/saves, incredibly scarce ammo and a ridiculous ammount of enemies).

I liked Lunacy though.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"] Do you think them being lazy on the development part(EA) may have anything to do with their efforts with the 3DO? I doubt it, seeing as how they stand to make $$ either way, just wondering though, since they were invested in that console? Off the topic, which of the Saturn games, if you had to choose the top 10, which ones would you go with? I'm trying to add to my library, and I thought Burning Rangers looked pretty interesting, just a little unsure. godzillavskong

with EA it was simply them making their games for the PS1, and then doing a sloppy port to the Saturn.

as for top 10 ..... Im usually weary of giving top 10s because they will sometimes change. but 10 games I would go for in no particular order

1 , Panzer Dragoon Saga

2. Burning Rangers

3. Street Fighter Zero/Alpha 3

4. X-Men Vs Street Fighter (Marvel Vs Street Fighter as well)

5 . Dead Or Alive

6 . Nights Into Dreams (3D controller is almost a must)

7. Grandia

8 Daytona USA CE (get the JPN version , the US/PAL version has control issues and iffy music)

9 . Deep Fear

10 . Virtua Fighter 2

other good ones include , Shining Force 3 ep 1/2/3 , Last Bronx , Resident Evil . Sega Rally, Shutokou Battle 97 , Lunar and Lunar 2 , Winter Heat, Decathlete , Anarchy in the Nippon , Vampire Savior (Darkstalkers 3) , Bulk Slash , Quake , Duke Nukem 3D and alot of other ones too.

note I didn't take price into account, some of these can cost alot, especially in their US/PAL versions, JPN version might be cheaper , also some are Japanese RPGs, but its up to you which ones to get.

Even the Japanese version of DAYTONA USA CCE doesn't handle as great as the first one. In spite of the shoddy graphics, DAYTONA USA is amazingly fun and a must-have SS game in my opinion.

Deep Fear is a pretty awesome survival-horror game. The Japanese version is inexpensive and is in English, like the Bio Hazard games.

The characters are totally forgettable though, and the main character couldn't have been more generic, that's the main flaw of the game. But still, the setting and gameplay make one hell of a survival horror.

I also recommend Enemy Zero, though it is also on PC with some minor improvements. It has a better looking 3D corridor graphics, but the FMVs look better on the SS.

Another similarly overlooked game is Torico.

Panzer_Zwei

I think people make a bit of a big deal of Daytona CE (especially the JPN one), some people really do seem to hate it, when its still a very good game, even if its not 100% like the original.

Deep Fear kinda suffers from the generic character issues that RE1 did, but less so , at least they have a bit of a story around them. I can assure you that if RE1 had no sequel , the characters would be called generic (the sequels developed their characters somewhat), also the story is generally better in Deep Fear.

and as bad as the voice acting is, I think it has its charm :P

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]well, I don't know if the same is true for the neo-geo. But I do know that almost every good game on the 3DO was ported to other systems, specially the PC, the alone in the dark games, Star Control, the wing commander games, all of them are on the PCDarkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]well, I don't know if the same is true for the neo-geo. But I do know that almost every good game on the 3DO was ported to other systems, specially the PC, the alone in the dark games, Star Control, the wing commander games, all of them are on the PCjakandsig

well ,alot of good Neo Geo games made their way to the Saturn and Dreamcast nearly perfectly in most cases (there are some PS1 ports too , but they are more of a mixed bag in quality)Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="jakandsig"] Not a lot of GOOD a lot of KNOWN Neo-geo games were ported. People have no clue about the Neo-Geo's varied library.

jakandsig

the Saturn port of Metal Slug is a very competent port with minimal loading and a good frame rate (yes I own it)

Even the Japanese version of DAYTONA USA CCE doesn't handle as great as the first one. In spite of the shoddy graphics, DAYTONA USA is amazingly fun and a must-have SS game in my opinion.

Deep Fear is a pretty awesome survival-horror game. The Japanese version is inexpensive and is in English, like the Bio Hazard games.

The characters are totally forgettable though, and the main character couldn't have been more generic, that's the main flaw of the game. But still, the setting and gameplay make one hell of a survival horror.

I also recommend Enemy Zero, though it is also on PC with some minor improvements. It has a better looking 3D corridor graphics, but the FMVs look better on the SS.

Another similarly overlooked game is Torico.

Panzer_Zwei

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]well, I don't know if the same is true for the neo-geo. But I do know that almost every good game on the 3DO was ported to other systems, specially the PC, the alone in the dark games, Star Control, the wing commander games, all of them are on the PCjakandsig

[QUOTE="jakandsig"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] well ,alot of good Neo Geo games made their way to the Saturn and Dreamcast nearly perfectly in most cases (there are some PS1 ports too , but they are more of a mixed bag in quality)godzillavskong

HUDSON, TECHNOS JAPAN and DECO released a couple of games on the Neo*Geo. Console third party support doesn't really apply to the Neo*Geo though. SNK did tried to get exclusive third party support with the Neo*Geo CD but they failed miserably.

Also, the Street Fighter series ran on rival arcade hardware. SNK was CAPCOM's more direct competitor.

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="jakandsig"] Not a lot of GOOD a lot of KNOWN Neo-geo games were ported. People have no clue about the Neo-Geo's varied library.

Panzer_Zwei

HUDSON, TECHNOS JAPAN and DECO released a couple of games on the Neo*Geo. Console third party support doesn't really apply to the Neo*Geo though. SNK did tried to get exclusive third party support with the Neo*Geo CD but they failed miserably.

Also, the Street Fighter series ran on rival arcade hardware. SNK was CAPCOM's more direct competitor.

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="jakandsig"] Not a lot of GOOD a lot of KNOWN Neo-geo games were ported. People have no clue about the Neo-Geo's varied library.

Panzer_Zwei

HUDSON, TECHNOS JAPAN and DECO released a couple of games on the Neo*Geo. Console third party support doesn't really apply to the Neo*Geo though. SNK did tried to get exclusive third party support with the Neo*Geo CD but they failed miserably.

Also, the Street Fighter series ran on rival arcade hardware. SNK was CAPCOM's more direct competitor.

Man this thread is making me regret selling my 3DO. I didn't want to sell it at the time but i needed the money. I've never had the opportunity to play the Neo-Geo so I cannot say anything about it. But the 3DO is a good system, there were some really enjoyable games for it. The games that are most memorable for the 3DO to me were Street Fighter 2, Star Control 2, Road Rash (GET THIS GAME!), Gex, Need for Speed (I doubt this age'd well), FIFA (doubt that age'd well, but still highly recommend it)

littlestreakier

just wondering. how much did you get for it and why sell it? I mean a 3do could maybe get you 100-200$ if you have all the great games complete with console. that's nothing in regular life right?

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="nameless12345"]

He has a point. Neo Geo came out in 1990 and at the time a console with arcade perfect graphics, sound and control was the stuff of dreams for many console gamers.

nameless12345

NES and Master System could never run the arcade games at the time arcade perfect unless they had poor graphics for arcade standards.

There was a massive difference between the NES and Neo Geo in terms of graphics and sound. Infact it was a great difference between the 16-bit consoles and Neo Geo.

Considering many people back then still had a NES the Neo Geo was a very desirable console and far ahead of it's time.

exactly. it was the wet dream of every gamer. it was like owning a ferrari.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="nameless12345"]

I still think the 32X could do better. For example MKII on the 32X is just a recolored Genesis version with a bit more background detail. I'm confident 32X could do better than this.

nameless12345

I think Metal Head was quite graphically advanced for the 32X:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueocArqPT8A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOWZbydnlZE

may not seem like much now but was impressive back in 1994. no game pushed it probably but this one game closest I suppose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPUCICkqd1U

By the way there was also a 3DO successor in the works - the M2. You can read about it here:

http://ultimateconsoledatabase.com/unreleased/m2.htm

There are also some vids about it on youtube.

nameless12345

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6O6jKswvQ4

the original d2 was supposed to be exlusive to this platform and was totally different from the dreamcast version that was released. it looks like it was based upon the reallife horror story's of vlad "tepes" dracula. as can be seen from the spiked people

I wish we would've found out more about this, is great trailer video

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] the 32X was capable of some very decent stuff. from what I understand, alot of games on the 32X use the Mega Drive extensively, leading to ports that looked like slightly better MD versionsbultje112

I think Metal Head was quite graphically advanced for the 32X:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueocArqPT8A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOWZbydnlZE

may not seem like much now but was impressive back in 1994. no game pushed it probably but this one game closest I suppose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPUCICkqd1U

Yeah, I've seen that demo several times now. I find those fully texture mapped mountains very impressive. Pretty good proof that the 32X wasn't bad hardware. It had the same CPUs like the Sega Saturn after all, just a little slower. Too bad that Darkside game is so boring. I mean shooting rocks in Asteroids was fun but here it's just boring and tiresome.

As for M2, I like how they tried to convince people it will have graphics like these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE0-NVXfEqU

Not much different from Sony and theif pre-rendered Motorstorm and Killzone 2 footage :)

The console was stronger than the N64 and PS1 though.

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

I think Metal Head was quite graphically advanced for the 32X:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueocArqPT8A

nameless12345

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOWZbydnlZE

may not seem like much now but was impressive back in 1994. no game pushed it probably but this one game closest I suppose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPUCICkqd1U

Yeah, I've seen that demo several times now. I find those fully texture mapped mountains very impressive. Pretty good proof that the 32X wasn't bad hardware. It had the same CPUs like the Sega Saturn after all, just a little slower. Too bad that Darkside game is so boring. I mean shooting rocks in Asteroids was fun but here it's just boring and tiresome.

As for M2, I like how they tried to convince people it will have graphics like these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE0-NVXfEqU

Not much different from Sony and theif pre-rendered Motorstorm and Killzone 2 footage :)

The console was stronger than the N64 and PS1 though.

yes it had the same CPUs, but it was worse in everything else, not to mention the lack of the VDP2.

and again tech demos are not indicative of real time , in game conditions, the moment you add in things like AI, movement by anything other then the camera, actual enemies, the frame rate takes a hit.

the lack of any enemies or characters is actually fairly important because believe it or not, characters or any kind can take more polygons to create a human in a game, then it does most other things

compare Darxide to something like Bulk Slash on the Saturn , space level

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDJ13x7yIg0&feature=related

or one of the city based levels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBv1UiczWQU&feature=related

while Bulk Slash's main character is a sprite, just about everything else is better , its not just meteors, the frame rate is better , and even on the rock surfaces, the textures are better then in Darxide.

now, Bulk Slash is over a year newer, but the difference is quite apparent.

comparing the 32X to the Saturn is like comparing the Colecovision to the Master System, both of them have the same CPU (the famous and popular Z80), but the difference is quite apparent due to a lesser video chip and alot less RAM (not to mention sound hardware, which is phenomenal on the Saturn and the lack of the VDP2 in the 32X)

Well of course the Saturn was better. My point was simply that it [32X] wasn't that bad in hardware terms. It's main problem was that it just didn't have very good games (imo).

its 2 main problems in my opinon were these

1. lack of support from Sega , both Sega and the devs, along with most of the marketing and development resources , were either still going to the Mega Drive , or to the Saturn

2. Hardware that wouldnt have been able to keep up , wheter you believe the Saturn is better or worse then its competitors in the 3D arena, at least it could keep up , the 32X would not.

the other issue was its nature as an add on , but thats less of an issue and maybe even beneficial in the short term.