NPD Sales for October

I think Microsoft's machine has all the potential for becoming something huge... Shame-usBlackley

The way I see it, the 360 already has the guys who love gaming more than ever and who buy a couple games a month (at full price). This is the market that MS wants.

On the other hand, Nintendo has found a way to make profit on the "casual" crowd. That way is to sell an inexpensive system at a premium price so that they actually make money on the hardware. That's a special situation and not one that I think anyone else could reproduce. As Carnage mentioned, Nintendo also has a following of faithful who will buy the majority of their big first party offerings and that pretty much locks in the big profits.

I also believe that there is a large number of the former PS2 crowd who don't see anything offered by anyone that really adds much to what they could play on the PS2. I'm one of these. I think Nintendo is trying the hardest to grab my attention with their new control system, but they have yet to convince me that they have any games that play better than they would on another console. I think most people like me refuse to bite on any new console.

I really can't see any of these systems achieving "success" if you choose to measure that success against PS2 type hardware and software sales. The fact that the 360 is even coming close on the software front is very impressive. To me it indicates that the market is really split with the 360 capturing a relatively small, but very ravenous crowd of game consumers.

Bear in mind that I didn't say that the Wii's audience is exclusively casual gamers, I stated it was a mix of casual gamers and longtime Nintendo fans.

VGChartz's numbers have at best a nodding relationship with reality, but for the purposes of this discussion, I will take them as gospel.

By my count, five of the games on VG chartz's top ten selling Wii games are minigame collections (Wii Sports, Wii Play, Mario Party 8, Raving Rabbits and Warioware). Wii Sports' US popularity is hard to quantify since it comes packed with every system, but mainstream publications have sung its praises and newspaper articles have talked about people being sucked in by it, so I assume it is well regarded (the last minigame collection I loved was Combat!, so I am in no position to judge). Ditto for Wii Play (which is a controller pack-in). There are also six GC sequels/ports (RE4, Mario Party, Paper Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Warioware) though the lists overlap. The only game which falls outside either of the two categories is Red Steel, which is the exception that proves the rule.

I fully agree with your last point that third parties don't care what sells for Nintendo, but what sells for them. Look at what happened with Madden. EA put a special team on Madden Wii who rebuilt the game around the Wiimote and offered up a sort of beginner's mode and thew in a bunch of minigames. Reviewers praised them for 'getting' the Wii. Despite this, Madden Wii was outsold by every other version(X360, PS2, PS3, Xbox1) version and the Xbox1 was discontinued a long time ago. This despite the vast numbers of Wiis sold each month. Yes, Guitar Hero did well, but it is a game built around a controller which lends itself to parties, so it was more compatible with casual gamers than the likes of Madden or Bioshock (not two games one often sees in the same sentence).

CarnageHeart

First of all Combat is one of the games in Wii Play so I think if you own a Wii you should check it out. :)

Madden has never ever sold on a Nintendo system. Madden for the PSP even ousold Madden for DS and I'm sure we both know which has better selling third party titles. Though my only source is VGCharts and both you and me know that they are inaccurate, but the PSP version sold way more then it so I doubt they could be off by that much. By my knowledge in the Super Nintendo vs. SEGA Genesis days Nintendo sold the least copies of Madden (reading your past posts it seems like you've been gaming for a while so I assume that you should be familiar this).

EDIT - I found a link to back up my claims. Strangely the Wii version outsold Madden on the Xbox by one rank (I guess you ment long term but I would like some numbers to those) and Madden PSP sold less then the Wii (same as I said for the Xbox) But as you can see there is no Madden DS in sight.

To your first paragraph, the thing is what else has came out that people could buy? It's no secret that the Wii's library was atrocious, hell it was so bad that it was even called the system to "kill hardcore gaming" because it was selling so well and the games sucked so bad. I mean what else are people going to buy Prince of Persia: Warrior Within? Far Cry Vengance? In my eyes the reason why the third party sales have been so sluggish is mostly contributed with how bad the line-up was. The Xbox 360 had some million sellers in it's first year yes, but games like Dead Rising and Saints Row are of some quality and developed ground up for the system, so I assume that they would sell better then most of the games that came out for the Wii. You mention that most of the third party games that sold well cater to the Nintendo fanbase however I can't even think of a ground up third party game not geared towards casuals released for the Wii over the past year that wasn't. Trauma Center: Second Opinion was a remake of the DS game, Sonic and the Secret Rings bares the old rivalry of Nintendo vs. SEGA, Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition is as you said before a port, and to my eyes at least that was the end of serious third party focus on the Wii until Zack and Wiki which Capcom has even admitted to not bother to advertise with. If I missed a game then feel free to tell me about it because I feel like I'm forgot something here. Though this is obvious since developers and probably even Nintendo themselves never knew that the Wii was going to be so successful. So game built around the Nintendo fanbase was probably the only thing planned at the time.

Don't mis-understand the last paragrah however, I'm not saying that anything can sell on the Wii. Not everything can sell on everything even the 360 has some hiccups with some particular games. I'm just saying that the Wii could (probably IMO) go beyond the Hardcore Nintendo Fanbase and Casuals since there weren't really any games that had potential of selling that went the other route. The Wii is the fastest selling gaming hardware of all-time, so I don't think it's only hardcore Nintendo fans and new to gaming casuals buying it.

Madden has never ever sold on a Nintendo system. Madden for the PSP even ousold Madden for DS and I'm sure we both know which has better selling third party titles. Though my only source is VGCharts and both you and me know that they are inaccurate, but the PSP version sold way more then it so I doubt they could be off by that much. By my knowledge in the Super Nintendo vs. SEGA Genesis days Nintendo sold the least copies of Madden (reading your past posts it seems like you've been gaming for a while so I assume that you should be familiar this).

Gunraidan

Why do you think that is? I'm interested in hearing.

Why do you think that is? I'm interested in hearing.

Ghost_Face

The same reason why desipite the 360 being a software sale behemoth, Eternal Sonata (along with almost every other Japanese Centric Game released on an Xbox system) sold like complete crap. Some games sell worse on other consoles due to the types of people who buy the system. Take the buyer of the Nintendo DS for example what people want for the DS is Innovation, Nintendo Franchises, Reliving the franchises of the 16-Bit era, Japanese Games, Cartoony Themes, none that are listed are very "Madden Friendly", Nintendo fans aren't really ones to usually dip themselves into the American Way of Gaming of guns, sports, and movie like attitudes (yes that was a way over-generalization but please bare with me here). The types of people who buy the systems matter to what game sell on them. Is there a way to make a sports game sell on a Nintendo console? Probably, you can market anything anyway to make a game sell good. I mean previously I listed that Cinematic Type games usually don't sell on Nintendo Systems, yet Red Steel was one of the Wii's first million sellers.

It turns out that in addition to not having any WalMart data, the NDP has also lost access to all Toys R Us data. The NDP spins this by saying for each they lose they gain the same so it all evens out in the end, but wouldn't provide any names of what they gained.

People always say how this industry is now larger than movies and music, yet movies have how many tickets were bought right down to the dollar the moment the weekend ends. Here it takes many weeks to make an estimated guess about how many units sold. I just don't get it. Japan's Media Create is just worlds ahead of the NDP.

First of all Combat is one of the games in Wii Play so I think if you own a Wii you should check it out. :)

Madden has never ever sold on a Nintendo system. Madden for the PSP even ousold Madden for DS and I'm sure we both know which has better selling third party titles. Though my only source is VGCharts and both you and me know that they are inaccurate, but the PSP version sold way more then it so I doubt they could be off by that much. By my knowledge in the Super Nintendo vs. SEGA Genesis days Nintendo sold the least copies of Madden (reading your past posts it seems like you've been gaming for a while so I assume that you should be familiar this).

EDIT - I found a link to back up my claims. Strangely the Wii version outsold Madden on the Xbox by one rank (I guess you ment long term but I would like some numbers to those) and Madden PSP sold less then the Wii (same as I said for the Xbox) But as you can see there is no Madden DS in sight.

To your first paragraph, the thing is what else has came out that people could buy? It's no secret that the Wii's library was atrocious, hell it was so bad that it was even called the system to "kill hardcore gaming" because it was selling so well and the games sucked so bad. I mean what else are people going to buy Prince of Persia: Warrior Within? Far Cry Vengance? In my eyes the reason why the third party sales have been so sluggish is mostly contributed with how bad the line-up was. The Xbox 360 had some million sellers in it's first year yes, but games like Dead Rising and Saints Row are of some quality and developed ground up for the system, so I assume that they would sell better then most of the games that came out for the Wii. You mention that most of the third party games that sold well cater to the Nintendo fanbase however I can't even think of a ground up third party game not geared towards casuals released for the Wii over the past year that wasn't. Trauma Center: Second Opinion was a remake of the DS game, Sonic and the Secret Rings bares the old rivalry of Nintendo vs. SEGA, Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition is as you said before a port, and to my eyes at least that was the end of serious third party focus on the Wii until Zack and Wiki which Capcom has even admitted to not bother to advertise with. If I missed a game then feel free to tell me about it because I feel like I'm forgot something here. Though this is obvious since developers and probably even Nintendo themselves never knew that the Wii was going to be so successful. So game built around the Nintendo fanbase was probably the only thing planned at the time.

Don't mis-understand the last paragrah however, I'm not saying that anything can sell on the Wii. Not everything can sell on everything even the 360 has some hiccups with some particular games. I'm just saying that the Wii could (probably IMO) go beyond the Hardcore Nintendo Fanbase and Casuals since there weren't really any games that had potential of selling that went the other route. The Wii is the fastest selling gaming hardware of all-time, so I don't think it's only hardcore Nintendo fans and new to gaming casuals buying it.

Gunraidan

Below is the link to August 2007 NPD sales as posted by Sonycowboy of the GAF, who is normally the guy who releases NPD numbers. Below that is a GS article based on an NPD press release which contains the same info.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189989

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6178770.html?tag=result;title;2

As for who has released a kickbutt original game on the Wii and properly advertised it, I don't think anyone has, but as I've said in the past, going out on limbs is the type of thing first parties should do. This gen, MS has funded Viva Pinata in an attempt to create/prove the existence of a market for family friendly games on the Xbox and Sony funded Resistance for the same reasons (well, take out family friendly and insert fps).

P.S. - In regards to Combat are we talking about the same game? The game I am thinking of is a 2600 game in which one controlled different units (tanks, planes and suchlike) and shot it out with a buddy. According to Wikipedia there were 27 different games, but I'll admit I don't recall the exact number (I remember the bomber vs trio of biplanes stage very well though since that was a personal favorite).

Below is the link to August 2007 NPD sales as posted by Sonycowboy of the GAF, who is normally the guy who releases NPD numbers. Below that is a GS article based on an NPD press release which contains the same info.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189989

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6178770.html?tag=result;title;2CarnageHeart

I guess Kotaku was wrong. My mistake.:oops:

As for who has released a kickbutt original game on the Wii and properly advertised it, I don't think anyone has, but as I've said in the past, going out on limbs is the type of thing first parties should do. This gen, MS has funded Viva Pinata in an attempt to create/prove the existence of a market for family friendly games on the Xbox and Sony funded Resistance for the same reasons (well, take out family friendly and insert fps).CarnageHeart

Well Microsoft really didn't push Viva Pinate and concentrated more so on Gears (LINK). And while Sony's software sales aren't high Resistence sold an extremely high amount. However looking at these games there still wasn't that much of a result, I can't really think of a family friendly game amongst that aspect on the 360 by third parties (outside of movie games). And releasing Resistance didn't really turn heads for the FPS crowd as Rainbow Six and the Darkness PS3 still weren't too impressive, not to mention with Unreal Tournament III is now also going to be on the 360. Though I think HAZE going PS3 exclusive can support your statement to some extent.

Overall I think that Nintendo feels no need to launch a new IP of that requiem since it rarely is beneficial. I also don't see how that effects non-casual IP's on the console since most of the games listed are game traditional gamers catter to. If Mario sells good developers will see that there is a market for platformers, the same goes for other games in Nintendo's franchises. I understand you were referring to the die hard Nintendo fan who only buys Nintendo's games but I'm talking about the average gamer who is just buying a Wii. If someone buys a Wii and buys Zelda and likes it then that's potential of a fan for Action-Adventure Games. Simlar to Halo, yes it isn't really the system seller it use to be (as this NPD shows) but if somebody buys a 360 they would definately enjoy the game and look to other things. Obviously they aren't going to be as benefitial as a new IP, but Nintendo has the franchises long built it's just that the developers have to take action to at least get new fans of genres (don't know if I said that right).

Despite me doubting the importance of this, it seems that Nintendo has indeed taken action to this topic. Recently they purchased Monolith who is currently working on Disaster Day of Crisis (possibly for that cinematic action department Nintendo lacks) and also for their history of the lack of RPG's on the systems.

So far the only games I see that are coming out exclusively to the Wii that have potential to sell to the traditional gamer in North America is "Nitrobike" and that's if it's marketed well. On the Japanese front I would say Tales of Symphonia 2, but it's predecessor was on the Gamecube (and performed miraculously) so I'll count that out. I'd probably have to go with Monster Hunter 3 and see how that goes compared to the PSP and PS2 releases. And again if I'm missing something here feel free to correct me. Then again looking at Dragon Quest Swords selling so well on the Wii (it outsold nearly every if not then every Dragon Quest spin-off on the PS2) I don't have too many doubts.

P.S. - In regards to Combat are we talking about the same game? The game I am thinking of is a 2600 game in which one controlled different units (tanks, planes and suchlike) and shot it out with a buddy. According to Wikipedia there were 27 different games, but I'll admit I don't recall the exact number (I remember the bomber vs trio of biplanes stage very well though since that was a personal favorite).

CarnageHeart

Well it only focus's around the Tank Battling in Combat (I personally haven't played it too often to 100% Confirm this). It's similar by shooting missiles and having them bounce of walls to hit your enemy and such. I think some videos would be a better indication of what I'm talking about.

Atari Combat

Wii Play

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Below is the link to August 2007 NPD sales as posted by Sonycowboy of the GAF, who is normally the guy who releases NPD numbers. Below that is a GS article based on an NPD press release which contains the same info.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189989

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6178770.html?tag=result;title;2Gunraidan

I guess Kotaku was wrong. My mistake.:oops:

As for who has released a kickbutt original game on the Wii and properly advertised it, I don't think anyone has, but as I've said in the past, going out on limbs is the type of thing first parties should do. This gen, MS has funded Viva Pinata in an attempt to create/prove the existence of a market for family friendly games on the Xbox and Sony funded Resistance for the same reasons (well, take out family friendly and insert fps).CarnageHeart

Well Microsoft really didn't push Viva Pinate and concentrated more so on Gears (LINK). And while Sony's software sales aren't high Resistence sold an extremely high amount. However looking at these games there still wasn't that much of a result, I can't really think of a family friendly game amongst that aspect on the 360 by third parties (outside of movie games). And releasing Resistance didn't really turn heads for the FPS crowd as Rainbow Six and the Darkness PS3 still weren't too impressive, not to mention with Unreal Tournament III is now also going to be on the 360. Though I think HAZE going PS3 exclusive can support your statement to some extent.

Overall I think that Nintendo feels no need to launch a new IP of that requiem since it rarely is beneficial. I also don't see how that effects non-casual IP's on the console since most of the games listed are game traditional gamers catter to. If Mario sells good developers will see that there is a market for platformers, the same goes for other games in Nintendo's franchises. I understand you were referring to the die hard Nintendo fan who only buys Nintendo's games but I'm talking about the average gamer who is just buying a Wii. If someone buys a Wii and buys Zelda and likes it then that's potential of a fan for Action-Adventure Games. Simlar to Halo, yes it isn't really the system seller it use to be (as this NPD shows) but if somebody buys a 360 they would definately enjoy the game and look to other things. Obviously they aren't going to be as benefitial as a new IP, but Nintendo has the franchises long built it's just that the developers have to take action to at least get new fans of genres (don't know if I said that right).

Despite me doubting the importance of this, it seems that Nintendo has indeed taken action to this topic. Recently they purchased Monolith who is currently working on Disaster Day of Crisis (possibly for that cinematic action department Nintendo lacks) and also for their history of the lack of RPG's on the systems.

So far the only games I see that are coming out exclusively to the Wii that have potential to sell to the traditional gamer in North America is "Nitrobike" and that's if it's marketed well. On the Japanese front I would say Tales of Symphonia 2, but it's predecessor was on the Gamecube (and performed miraculously) so I'll count that out. I'd probably have to go with Monster Hunter 3 and see how that goes compared to the PSP and PS2 releases. And again if I'm missing something here feel free to correct me. Then again looking at Dragon Quest Swords selling so well on the Wii (it outsold nearly every if not then every Dragon Quest spin-off on the PS2) I don't have too many doubts.

P.S. - In regards to Combat are we talking about the same game? The game I am thinking of is a 2600 game in which one controlled different units (tanks, planes and suchlike) and shot it out with a buddy. According to Wikipedia there were 27 different games, but I'll admit I don't recall the exact number (I remember the bomber vs trio of biplanes stage very well though since that was a personal favorite).

CarnageHeart

Well it only focus's around the Tank Battling in Combat (I personally haven't played it too often to 100% Confirm this). It's similar by shooting missiles and having them bounce of walls to hit your enemy and such. I think some videos would be a better indication of what I'm talking about.

Atari Combat

Wii Play

I think original games are risky, but the payoff can be huge. Motor Toon GP was a moderately successful franchise, but Yamauchi abandoned it and made GT which went on to become the bestselling racing game of all time. Resistance didn't cause fps makers to abandon the X360, but it showed them their is money to be made on the PS3 (though if Ratchet's sales this month don't spike and Uncharted puts up low numbers I can't blame anyone for reaching the opposite conclusion). Granted, some of the PS3 third party games have been subpar, but it seems that is due more to the fact that the initial PS3 development kits were hard to use than anything else (I know Sony has tried to solve that problem over time, and recent games like CoD4 and Assasin's Creed are more or less on par with their X360 counterparts).

You're right about Disaster Day of Crisis. That is an interesting looking original Nintendo game I had forgotten about.

That Wii Play game does look a heck of a lot like Combat.

[QUOTE="argianas"]

It's back up, and the promotion now has one major catch - you have to be a paid subscriber to Xbox Live on the original Xbox. How many people are still keeping an active account on the original Xbox? Is this promotion targetting 23 people?

Ghost_Face

That promotion blows chunks...

You said it man. This is the way that translates to me:

Attention Xbox users who still haven't bought a 360 (both of you).....you can get Halo 3 if you blah, blah, blah......

What a wicked way to mess up an awesome promo. 'Grats, Microsoft!

I think original games are risky, but the payoff can be huge. Motor Toon GP was a moderately successful franchise, but Yamauchi abandoned it and made GT which went on to become the bestselling racing game of all time. Resistance didn't cause fps makers to abandon the X360, but it showed them their is money to be made on the PS3 (though if Ratchet's sales this month don't spike and Uncharted puts up low numbers I can't blame anyone for reaching the opposite conclusion). Granted, some of the PS3 third party games have been subpar, but it seems that is due more to the fact that the initial PS3 development kits were hard to use than anything else (I know Sony has tried to solve that problem over time, and recent games like CoD4 and Assasin's Creed are more or less on par with their X360 counterparts).

You're right about Disaster Day of Crisis. That is an interesting looking original Nintendo game I had forgotten about.

That Wii Play game does look a heck of a lot like Combat.

CarnageHeart

What I personally think Nintendo is doing in terms of serious third party support is having third parties test the waters by releasing tons of games, and what games perform well they would actually release a ground up version of the games (if all goes to plan). I mean for Quarter 4 there are more games coming to the Wii from Third Parties then the 360 and PS3 combined (LINK).

Here's probably the most perfect example for this statement.

Trauma Center: New Blood is a solid game, yet it originally wasn't even planned. What actually triggered this was the enhance port of the DS game "Trauma Center: Second Opinion" which was released for the Wii a year ago. The title performed so well infact that Atlus decided to create a sequel right away ground up for the system. There are other examples such as how the Dragon Quest spin-offs on the DS translated into the next mark of the franchise appearing on it, but I think this does best because it talks about something that just happened. :P

[QUOTE="Ghost_Face"][QUOTE="argianas"]

It's back up, and the promotion now has one major catch - you have to be a paid subscriber to Xbox Live on the original Xbox. How many people are still keeping an active account on the original Xbox? Is this promotion targetting 23 people?

Shame-usBlackley

That promotion blows chunks...

You said it man. This is the way that translates to me:

Attention Xbox users who still haven't bought a 360 (both of you).....you can get Halo 3 if you blah, blah, blah......

What a wicked way to mess up an awesome promo. 'Grats, Microsoft!

Yeah, this, the bundled games and the Target deal almost had me run out tonight to get a 360 even though it's not the wisest investment for me at the present time. It's probably a good thing this promotion is so horrendously lame.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

I think original games are risky, but the payoff can be huge. Motor Toon GP was a moderately successful franchise, but Yamauchi abandoned it and made GT which went on to become the bestselling racing game of all time. Resistance didn't cause fps makers to abandon the X360, but it showed them their is money to be made on the PS3 (though if Ratchet's sales this month don't spike and Uncharted puts up low numbers I can't blame anyone for reaching the opposite conclusion). Granted, some of the PS3 third party games have been subpar, but it seems that is due more to the fact that the initial PS3 development kits were hard to use than anything else (I know Sony has tried to solve that problem over time, and recent games like CoD4 and Assasin's Creed are more or less on par with their X360 counterparts).

You're right about Disaster Day of Crisis. That is an interesting looking original Nintendo game I had forgotten about.

That Wii Play game does look a heck of a lot like Combat.

Gunraidan

What I personally think Nintendo is doing in terms of serious third party support is having third parties test the waters by releasing tons of games, and what games perform well they would actually release a ground up version of the games (if all goes to plan). I mean for Quarter 4 there are more games coming to the Wii from Third Parties then the 360 and PS3 combined (LINK).

Here's probably the most perfect example for this statement.

Trauma Center: New Blood is a solid game, yet it originally wasn't even planned. What actually triggered this was the enhance port of the DS game "Trauma Center: Second Opinion" which was released for the Wii a year ago. The title performed so well infact that Atlus decided to create a sequel right away ground up for the system. There are other examples such as how the Dragon Quest spin-offs on the DS translated into the next mark of the franchise appearing on it, but I think this does best because it talks about something that just happened. :P

You stipulated earlier in this thread that the quality of the Wii's original hardcore third party games are lacking, so the total number of third party games released is kind of besides the point, isn't it?

The original Traume Center for the Wii (and the success of the DS port) is interesting, but is it a good example of a game going against type and suceeding anyway?

Now let's look at the Wii, which sold 500,000+ systems on the month PRIOR to Mario Galaxy hitting. I don't know what to say anymore, folks, other than this has gone on long enough now to be officially a trend and not a fad. The Wii is bat-poop crazy popular, and the thing is, there really isn't a whole lot to play on it. What happens when Galaxy gets tallied next month and a base that appreciates great games (read: not Japan) gets to appreciate it? What happens when one of best-selling games of last-gen shows up early next year in Smash Brothers Brawl? I hated the last two Smash Bros., and I'm sure I'll hate brawl, but no one is more aware than me that I'm going to be in the minority here. And that's not even getting into the non-games that are coming, like Wii Fit. Shame-usBlackley

I've been saying this for a while, software-wise the Wii has finally caught up, yet it has still been pummeling the competition before-hand.

Let's also not forget the shortage, I hear that they are currently producing 1.8 million consoles per/month, yet they're still outsold.

Great post btw.

You stipulated earlier in this thread that the quality of the Wii's original hardcore third party games are lacking, so the total number of third party games released is kind of besides the point, isn't it?

The original Traume Center for the Wii (and the success of the DS port) is interesting, but is it a good example of a game going against type and suceeding anyway?

CarnageHeart

The reason the Wii didn't get too much support early on and the majority of the titles were just shovelware or last gen ports. The reason the Wii titles were pitiful before was more so because the Wii caught the developers off guard. This is why since the console is a little more settled that we are seeing some titles with that look to be of much higher quality such as NiGHTS, Nitrobike, Ghost Squad (personally hate it but some people enjoy it), Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles, Metal of Honor Heroes 2 (I know it's on the PSP but this is the definitive version),etc. along with some multiplats or ports that look to be of at least somewhat quality (Guilty Gear Accent Core, Naruto: Clash, Tomb Raider Anniversary, etc.) And those are just games that are already or will very soon be released, not including future titles such as Dragon Quest Swords (which already performed phenomenally in Japan since it was one of the best selling Dragon Quest console spin-offs of all-time), House of the Dead 2 and 3 Collection, etc. I could easily go on, but I think you want me to get to the point now (since this paragraph is so long)

I think you may have took my previous post out of context. What I was saying is that third parties will publish titles and if one of their titles does well they will put a more serious continuation to it or a serious similar to it on the Wii that is taking more serious.

I didn't mean to make Trauma Center sound like the ultimate proof that the Wii would eventually get some serious third party franchises as say the Metal Gear Solid series. I just gave an example of a port that sold good that led a ground up sequal on the Wii, somehting that could result in franchises succeeding (or if they succeed) on the Wii.