Retailers: 360 Failure As High As 33%

Oh snap! Quick guys I need some advice, I bought my 360 from Ebgames on July 4th last year with a one year warranty. The warranty expires today I think, I want to extend the warranty through MS though. My question is do I still get an extra year warranty after my EBgames warrantyexpired because of MS' newfree one year replacement planor it only covers the day you purchased your console through one year?D3s7rUc71oN

I'd start making some calls for clarification on all that. You don't want to "think", you'd want to know.

[QUOTE="yomi_basic"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="yomi_basic"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="yomi_basic"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="Shifty_Pete"][QUOTE=""]

"After contacting several retailers from various regions in North America, the responses were unanimous: the Xbox 360 is the least reliable gaming console in recent history."

MarcusAntonius

No, recent is fine. The PS2 was far worse.

LOL, I knew you'd try and say that!!

It's nice to have a reputation for bringing up facts and having the ability to put things into perspective. Thanks Yomi.

You don't really beleive you have any fact or perspective do you? You do know that you are as biased as they come don't you. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are kidding and have not deluded yourself into thinking you are an unbiased source of "fact"

Are you actually going to comment on what I posted or just take shots at me? Yomi, you and Flood are the last people on GGD who should slamming anyone as biased.

You would never see me blaming MS for Sony's mistakes.

That's not what my post indicates. But again, you would actually have to read what I posted to have understood the meaning. Again, are you going to engage in a discussion or just toss flames my way?

Yes it plainly does. I admit you try and do it in a rounabout way but in the end it comes down to it's Sony's fault. It was a silly comment and you deserved to get called out for it. You even tried to say say the PS3 defect rates were far worse which is not supported by any evidence.

So you've bought four PS2's all that shows is that you were burned in the past all that does is show why you might be so biased.

You've derailed thisdiscussion enough trying to bring Sony into this thread. I'll stop ripping you and we can get back to the topic of this thread.

Oh snap! Quick guys I need some advice, I bought my 360 from Ebgames on July 4th last year with a one year warranty. The warranty expires today I think, I want to extend the warranty through MS though. My question is do I still get an extra year warranty after my EBgames warrantyexpired because of MS' newfree one year replacement planor it only covers the day you purchased your console through one year?D3s7rUc71oN

Probably not but the good news is that if you have made it this far your chances of having a bad console diminish quite a bit.

And Nintendo...well, those guys are amazing, reliability-wise. Has anyone EVER had a Nintendo console die on them in the past 20 years? I mean, I'm actually asking. I've never met anyone who has.

fathoms_basic

The original NES had a problem with the pin connector, which would break easily and render itself unable to read carts. Though they were easy to get and the console was easy enough to repair on their own, it did leave a bitter taste in some people's mouths.

When the top-loading NES systems came out at the end of the NES' life cycle, I was quick to pick one up. They are FAR more reliable.

Still you are correct -- Nintendo has a history of good quality in all of their devices.

Yes it plainly does. I admit you try and do it in a rounabout way but in the end it comes down to it's Sony's fault. It was a silly comment and you deserved to get called out for it. You even tried to say say the PS3 defect rates were far worse which is not supported by any evidence.

So you've bought four PS2's all that shows is that you were burned in the past all that does is show why you might be so biased.

You've derailed thisdiscussion enough trying to bring Sony into this thread. I'll stop ripping you and we can get back to the topic of this thread.

yomi_basic

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

I wonder if the unreliability of the X360 is slowing down sales (it didn't appreciably hurt the PS2, but there is a first time for everything) since there is a noticable gap inbetween the quality of the X360's library and its sales.

P.S. - I don't see why a thread about any flaw, no matter how unabashedly detrimental to consumers (a thread about third parties' difficulties with PS3 game development saw a similar arc) eventually sees people defending the flaw and labelling those who wish to see it corrected as biased.

Technically, if the failure represents an inherent hardware problem the actual failure rate is 100%. We're not talking about some 3-5% inconsistency with material process here but a fundamental design flaw (going by the large thread in Neogaf forums). Only those that have so far returned it actually managed to get the hardware problem to manifest itself, the others are just waiting or hoping.

What should happen is a recall and restitution (because I'm sure anyone paying S&H fees will want that money back), or a class action suit. Which again is probably what some people on the various forums have already proposed.

Still you are correct -- Nintendo has a history of good quality in all of their devices.

m0zart

Other than Nintendo controllers on every one of their consoles from the NES and on and the NES console itself, Nintendo has pretty good workmanship. People had to try hard to break the Gamecube. Whenever someone returned one as defective, 9/10 times it was because it was operating on carpet.

How is the game not linked to the hardware if the game is on the HDD, that's the part I'm not understanding.MarcusAntonius

The game is linked to your gamertag and hardware. Since I changed my hardware, the game will only unlock if I'm logged in to Live. Keep in mind, I can play the demo, just not the full game.The gamedoesn't recognize my current 360 as the one I used to make the purchase. So, if I'm not on Live, the game can't get the authorization from the Live servers or the 360 that I have bought the full game.

Yes, the game is on the HDD, but it authenticates against your 360's serial number.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]How is the game not linked to the hardware if the game is on the HDD, that's the part I'm not understanding.Grieverr

Yes, the game is on the HDD, but it authenticates against your 360's serial number.

A patch sure would be nice. I'm honestly shocked that is still being overlooked at this point, especially with how big XBL marketplace.

Wow, that really blows.

Marcus, I'm going to nail you on your BS right here and now.

The RUMORS that Sony had bad defective rates with the PS2 were just that: rumors. There was never any substantiated evidence for it, and there's a damn good reason- I worked at EB during the launch, and through the first two years of that console's existence. I remember the defective ratios we reported on those, and I know what the defect rates EB reported in the Northeast, most of the Eastern seaboard, and how the company reported on failure rates as a whole regarding the PS2. And here are the facts-

Sony suffered through a bad launch, reliability-wise, and it was due to the drive scratching game discs, mostly when the system was placed in a vertical position. The defect rates were high; as high as 10% at the time, even 20% for certain individual shipments. That lasted exactly three months. The defect rates continued to fall from March 2001 and on, from January 2002 through the end of the console's existence, the common reported defect rate for the PS2 was between 2 and 4%. They sold 111 million PS2s worldwide, and in the end, it was actually less than 2% that turned out defective, according to the last numbers I saw from Sony and EB.

Sony set no precedent, and you have NO leg to stand on here. Nobody has ever seen a defect rate - especially a sustained defect rate - as high as the 360, and that includes retailers. Nobody has ever seen this absurdly high level of negative press regarding a console's reliability, and that most certainly includes the PS2. It's never even been close. So please STOP trolling threads with your constant anti-Sony nonsense! Especially when you clearly have absolutely no clue what the hell you're talking about.

[QUOTE="yomi_basic"]

Yes it plainly does. I admit you try and do it in a rounabout way but in the end it comes down to it's Sony's fault. It was a silly comment and you deserved to get called out for it. You even tried to say say the PS3 defect rates were far worse which is not supported by any evidence.

So you've bought four PS2's all that shows is that you were burned in the past all that does is show why you might be so biased.

You've derailed thisdiscussion enough trying to bring Sony into this thread. I'll stop ripping you and we can get back to the topic of this thread.

MarcusAntonius

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

Hey, if you want to believe this then by all means do so. All I am saying is that it's funny that Sony comes up first and you're pretty quick to try and say the PS2 was far worse.

I think you ought to re-read your own posts and think about what they really say. You're comments are nowhere near as innocent as you try to make them seem.

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

MarcusAntonius

I agree that the precedent was set during the PS1 & PS2 eras. In fact, I think Microsoft has known there was a problem for a long time but was following the successful trend of rewarding bad behavior (IE : success to the hardware that least deserves it) set by those two systems. As bad as it's gotten for Microsoft, they still haven't been class-actioned (as Sony was for the PS2), but I've not a doubt that they will be soon, and deservedly so. This **** has got to stop.

And that really ties into my whole point. If the 360 becomes the third faulty system in as many generationsto dominate, we can all kiss quality hardware goodbye.

Yes Fathoms, I find that your anecdotal evidence is really a backbreaker. I also find it laughable that you accuse me of trolling given your post history.

You see Fathoms, when I post, I'm engaging in a discussion, sometimes expanding its scope as others have done in this thread as well. Is Mozart a Nintendo hater just because he referenced the NES as an example of poor Nintendo workmanship?

Its funny, I post a harmless factual reference and I'm immediately labeled a Sony hater. It seems to me, that some of you here simply read that part of my post without actually reading the rest of it where I indicted MS as well.

Oh yeah, learn how to carry on a discussion like a civil human being Fathoms, you'd be surprised at the good it will do you.

Yes, I suppose posting this link is trolling as well.

Yes Fathoms, I find that your anecdotal evidence is really a backbreaker. I also find it laughable that you accuse me of trolling given your post history.

You see Fathoms, when I post, I'm engaging in a discussion, sometimes expanding its scope as others have done in this thread as well. Is Mozart a Nintendo hater just because he referenced the NES as an example of poor Nintendo workmanship?

Its funny, I post a harmless factual reference and I'm immediately labeled a Sony hater. It seems to me, that some of you here simply read that part of my post without actually reading the rest of it where I indicted MS as well.

Oh yeah, learn how to carry on a discussion like a civil human being Fathoms, you'd be surprised at the good it will do you.

Yes, I suppose posting this link is trolling as well.

MarcusAntonius

Oh my god, you really believe this crap you are posting.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="yomi_basic"]

Yes it plainly does. I admit you try and do it in a rounabout way but in the end it comes down to it's Sony's fault. It was a silly comment and you deserved to get called out for it. You even tried to say say the PS3 defect rates were far worse which is not supported by any evidence.

So you've bought four PS2's all that shows is that you were burned in the past all that does is show why you might be so biased.

You've derailed thisdiscussion enough trying to bring Sony into this thread. I'll stop ripping you and we can get back to the topic of this thread.

yomi_basic

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

Hey, if you want to believe this then by all means do so. All I am saying is that it's funny that Sony comes up first and you're pretty quick to try and say the PS2 was far worse.

I think you ought to re-read your own posts and think about what they really say. You're comments are nowhere near as innocent as you try to make them seem.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

Shame-usBlackley

I agree that the precedent was set during the PS1 & PS2 eras. In fact, I think Microsoft has known there was a problem for a long time but was following the successful trend of rewarding bad behavior (IE : success to the hardware that least deserves it) set by those two systems. As bad as it's gotten for Microsoft, they still haven't been class-actioned (as Sony was for the PS2), but I've not a doubt that they will be soon, and deservedly so. This **** has got to stop.

And that really ties into my whole point. If the 360 becomes the third faulty system in as many generationsto dominate, we can all kiss quality hardware goodbye.

Do you really believe MS released hardware that they knew was this bad? I highly doubt it.

I'm guessing that thiese issues are causing quite a bit of heartburn within the company.

[QUOTE="Grieverr"]

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]How is the game not linked to the hardware if the game is on the HDD, that's the part I'm not understanding.MarcusAntonius

Yes, the game is on the HDD, but it authenticates against your 360's serial number.

A patch sure would be nice. I'm honestly shocked that is still being overlooked at this point, especially with how big XBL marketplace.

Wow, that really blows.

Whats the big deal, cant you just log on live and everything is ok? Im not quite sure if im understanding that right

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

yomi_basic

I agree that the precedent was set during the PS1 & PS2 eras. In fact, I think Microsoft has known there was a problem for a long time but was following the successful trend of rewarding bad behavior (IE : success to the hardware that least deserves it) set by those two systems. As bad as it's gotten for Microsoft, they still haven't been class-actioned (as Sony was for the PS2), but I've not a doubt that they will be soon, and deservedly so. This **** has got to stop.

And that really ties into my whole point. If the 360 becomes the third faulty system in as many generationsto dominate, we can all kiss quality hardware goodbye.

Do you really believe MS released hardware that they knew was this bad? I highly doubt it.

I'm guessing that thiese issues are causing quite a bit of heartburn within the company.

No, I believe that they did know they were doing rush jobs on 360sin facilities that were quickly thrown together.

[QUOTE="yomi_basic"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="yomi_basic"]

Yes it plainly does. I admit you try and do it in a rounabout way but in the end it comes down to it's Sony's fault. It was a silly comment and you deserved to get called out for it. You even tried to say say the PS3 defect rates were far worse which is not supported by any evidence.

So you've bought four PS2's all that shows is that you were burned in the past all that does is show why you might be so biased.

You've derailed thisdiscussion enough trying to bring Sony into this thread. I'll stop ripping you and we can get back to the topic of this thread.

rragnaar

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

Hey, if you want to believe this then by all means do so. All I am saying is that it's funny that Sony comes up first and you're pretty quick to try and say the PS2 was far worse.

I think you ought to re-read your own posts and think about what they really say. You're comments are nowhere near as innocent as you try to make them seem.

It's funny that you try and paint me as trying to rip Microsoft because I've never said that I have a major problem with how they have handled the situation so far.

I've said in other threads that as long as they do everything they can to fix the issue I that's all you can ask. As far as I can tell they have been pretty good about not leaving people hanging. So you can step off your soap box because my issue is not with MS it's with Marcus who is clearly attempting to throw others under the bus rather than just address the situation MS currently finds itself in.

[QUOTE="yomi_basic"][QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

MarcusAntonius

I agree that the precedent was set during the PS1 & PS2 eras. In fact, I think Microsoft has known there was a problem for a long time but was following the successful trend of rewarding bad behavior (IE : success to the hardware that least deserves it) set by those two systems. As bad as it's gotten for Microsoft, they still haven't been class-actioned (as Sony was for the PS2), but I've not a doubt that they will be soon, and deservedly so. This **** has got to stop.

And that really ties into my whole point. If the 360 becomes the third faulty system in as many generationsto dominate, we can all kiss quality hardware goodbye.

Do you really believe MS released hardware that they knew was this bad? I highly doubt it.

I'm guessing that thiese issues are causing quite a bit of heartburn within the company.

No, I believe that they did know they were doing rush jobs on 360sin facilities that were quickly thrown together.

I'm sure MS knew there would be some failure rates but there is no way they could have anticipated things would be this bad. I'm guessing they figured it would be about the same level as the Xbox 1 but things have just gone horribly wrong.

I wonder if the unreliability of the X360 is slowing down sales (it didn't appreciably hurt the PS2, but there is a first time for everything) since there is a noticable gap inbetween the quality of the X360's library and its sales.

P.S. - I don't see why a thread about any flaw, no matter how unabashedly detrimental to consumers (a thread about third parties' difficulties with PS3 game development saw a similar arc) eventually sees people defending the flaw and labelling those who wish to see it corrected as biased.

CarnageHeart

Though I agree with thread as a whole (I'm on my 3rd 360) it brings out people who want to attack 360 just because they own the other consoles or don't want to buy a 360 or don't like MS or whatever. They could care less about 360, failure rates or anything else about the console they are just attack dogs which is fairly pathetic. I refuse to argue with certain parties on this board that have an agenda of who knows what or maybe its just insecurity about the purchase that have made? In any case I grow tired of the ones and they know who they are, that just want to fight over something none of us have much control over, its very immature. Personally I own 360 and PS3 this failure rate thing sucks, but I still love my 360. PS3 is coming along nicely. I do wish MS would address this issue, I don't know what they are going to do but its obvious they have to do something.

Shamus i dont agree with that because IF sonys hardware was really that bad, wouldnt THEY be the ones who would have another faulty system since they can "get away with it". I mean, it seems they went out of their way to avoid another lawsuit, and i guarantee MS's next console will be sure to not have this problemF1Lengend

Very good point.

[QUOTE="D3s7rUc71oN"]Oh snap! Quick guys I need some advice, I bought my 360 from Ebgames on July 4th last year with a one year warranty. The warranty expires today I think, I want to extend the warranty through MS though. My question is do I still get an extra year warranty after my EBgames warrantyexpired because of MS' newfree one year replacement planor it only covers the day you purchased your console through one year?yomi_basic

Probably not but the good news is that if you have made it this far your chances of having a bad console diminish quite a bit.

I'm not taking any chances:P so I just got off the phone from calling MS customer service and extended the warranty for 2 more years= $50. The one year plan was $35. Oh well I can do whatever the hell I want to my system now:P

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="yomi_basic"][QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

yomi_basic

I agree that the precedent was set during the PS1 & PS2 eras. In fact, I think Microsoft has known there was a problem for a long time but was following the successful trend of rewarding bad behavior (IE : success to the hardware that least deserves it) set by those two systems. As bad as it's gotten for Microsoft, they still haven't been class-actioned (as Sony was for the PS2), but I've not a doubt that they will be soon, and deservedly so. This **** has got to stop.

And that really ties into my whole point. If the 360 becomes the third faulty system in as many generationsto dominate, we can all kiss quality hardware goodbye.

Do you really believe MS released hardware that they knew was this bad? I highly doubt it.

I'm guessing that thiese issues are causing quite a bit of heartburn within the company.

No, I believe that they did know they were doing rush jobs on 360sin facilities that were quickly thrown together.

I'm sure MS knew there would be some failure rates but there is no way they could have anticipated things would be this bad. I'm guessing they figured it would be about the same level as the Xbox 1 but things have just gone horribly wrong.

Again, with the X360, its almost like MS treated it like anotherOS launch and went for a quick lead of marketshare and then would solve problems later. Instead of putting out patches, they just extend warranties.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="Grieverr"]

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]How is the game not linked to the hardware if the game is on the HDD, that's the part I'm not understanding.F1Lengend

Yes, the game is on the HDD, but it authenticates against your 360's serial number.

A patch sure would be nice. I'm honestly shocked that is still being overlooked at this point, especially with how big XBL marketplace.

Wow, that really blows.

Whats the big deal, cant you just log on live and everything is ok? Im not quite sure if im understanding that right

well it will be nice in case you want to change your gamertag or avoid the need to log into XBL to play for something that you purchased. Pretty lame move by MS.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

Shame-usBlackley

I agree that the precedent was set during the PS1 & PS2 eras. In fact, I think Microsoft has known there was a problem for a long time but was following the successful trend of rewarding bad behavior (IE : success to the hardware that least deserves it) set by those two systems. As bad as it's gotten for Microsoft, they still haven't been class-actioned (as Sony was for the PS2), but I've not a doubt that they will be soon, and deservedly so. This **** has got to stop.

And that really ties into my whole point. If the 360 becomes the third faulty system in as many generationsto dominate, we can all kiss quality hardware goodbye.

I think the question first parties should ask themselves is 'How much better would our systems sell if there were no reliability issues?'. Also, sometimes companies do the right thing even if the past doesn't really provide them with definite reasons to do so. For example, the absence of a hard drive didn't appreciably hurt PS2 sales last gen (and boosted the sales of memory cards), but that didn't stop them from deciding that hard drives were the way to go this gen. On a related note, the first offender has changed its ways (the PSP and PS3 have been very reliable) so I am confident that MS can and eventually will do as well.

[QUOTE="TenaciousD29"]

I'm so sick of the same people always defending the PS3 and only bringing up FUD when it comes to the 360. Why don't the MODs do something?

I don't really care.I just needed to bring some balance to this forum.:P

yomi_basic

So you're upset with the people that are the reverse of you?

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

sigh...............

Setting a precedent and being at fault are not the same thing Yomi. If you had read my post in its entirety, you would have picked up on my statement about MS approaching the console market the same way as they do with their operating system.

I didn't derail the discussion. My post was expanding on Shamus's statement about defective hardware becoming an accepted standard among gamers and I expanded on that. Again, I merely ask you to take the time to read over my posts and some of the others in thisthread as well.

The only one derailing the thread is you with your rampant flame job. At this point you're not even arguing, you're just insulting.

CarnageHeart

I agree that the precedent was set during the PS1 & PS2 eras. In fact, I think Microsoft has known there was a problem for a long time but was following the successful trend of rewarding bad behavior (IE : success to the hardware that least deserves it) set by those two systems. As bad as it's gotten for Microsoft, they still haven't been class-actioned (as Sony was for the PS2), but I've not a doubt that they will be soon, and deservedly so. This **** has got to stop.

And that really ties into my whole point. If the 360 becomes the third faulty system in as many generationsto dominate, we can all kiss quality hardware goodbye.

I think the question first parties should ask themselves is 'How much better would our systems sell if there were no reliability issues?'. Also, sometimes companies do the right thing even if the past doesn't really provide them with definite reasons to do so. For example, the absence of a hard drive didn't appreciably hurt PS2 sales last gen (and boosted the sales of memory cards), but that didn't stop them from deciding that hard drives were the way to go this gen. On a related note, the first offender has changed its ways (the PSP and PS3 have been very reliable) so I am confident that MS can and eventually will do as well.

I agree, my PSP 2nd one has been flawless and my PS3 has been great. First PSP was Japanese one where the Memory stick slot shorted out. Hopefully MS will fix this and offer all 360 owners a solution, I'm not holding my breath however, I have not had good luck with any large company, that has promised things and has not delivered. I think its weird how reliable at least for me the original xbox was, never any problems with either of the two I own including a launch. I never ever had a console fail over 20 years until the Gamecube, weird as it seems to have been one of the more reliable consoles last gen. My launch PS2 still works flawlessly, I have a bit of troubles with my launch PS1's but they both still work. So really I consider this unprecedented, and MS needs to take care of it ASAP, before they lose any more consumer confidence.

oh i see, So you have to log on everytime to play? F1Lengend

Once you have a different 360 from the one you bought the games on yes, which is very irritating.

I've had a 360 since December of '06 and it's had no problems what-so-ever. No scratched games and no issues. I did see the red ring once, but that's only because I didn't have the AV cables plugged into the system. I hear a lot about the issues revolving around the xbox 360 and microsoft should do as much as they possibly can to fix them. For some people they have and others they havn't. For a good majority of the problems, I hear about the rings scratched onto the game discs. One major problem with this is that people change their console's position from horizontal to vertical (or visa-versa) when their system is powered up. If there is a game in the system, it will get scratched up, and a lot of people don't realize that. Also, i've never moved my console ever, with a game inside. This avoids the game from potentially slipping deeper into the console and getting jammed inside.

Another problem with the scratched discs is how they get scratched without the console ever being touched while operating. Well, a television show called Kassa recently did tests on an XBOX 360 and came to a conclusion. "Kassa reports that the problem is created by the TSST drive missing parts that stabilize the disc and prevent the drive's lens from coming into contact with the disc. The problem is mostly found in consoles produced in Dec. 2006, and the show estimates that 1 to 2 million units are affected," as stated by joystick.com on their website. People have actually been able to successfully correct the problem and one company (Zoozen) has a product that you can buy. It's called the Protector 360 and only costs $9.99.

You can purchase the product from the following webpage: http://www.divineo.com/cgi-bin/div-us/zz-36-protec.html

You can read a review for the product on the following webpage: http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=51437

All in all, I think that the majority of the issues causing games to be scratched are easily correctible. Try out the above solutions and hopefully they work for you. Also, about the Protector 360 product, it doesn't break warranty because you don't have to open up your system so don't worry about it. Have a nice day.

To everyone that complains about the failure rate for the 360..............can't blame you. What, you thought I was gonna say negative? :P Everyone here that have had problems with their 360 systems have every right to complain, no matter what anyone else say. Simply put, we need to make our complaints louder, towards Microsoft's ear. I have had my Xbox 360 since the middle of January and I have had no major problems with it just yet. However, I fear the time when my system might just fail on me, even when the warranty expires. Even with a vertical stand with a built-in fan, I don't think it's quite enough to keep my system from overteating much and break down. Don't get me wrong, the Xbox 360 is a really nice system and it has some good games, along with more good games comming out for it, but the failure rate is what's killing off this great brand of consoles. If Microsoft wants to improve their reliability, and sales, then they need to deal with the failure rate issue. In case if my system breaks down on me multiple times, they WILL hear it from me. C'mon, Microsoft, can't you realize people want a more dependable console system?

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Yes Fathoms, I find that your anecdotal evidence is really a backbreaker. I also find it laughable that you accuse me of trolling given your post history.

You see Fathoms, when I post, I'm engaging in a discussion, sometimes expanding its scope as others have done in this thread as well. Is Mozart a Nintendo hater just because he referenced the NES as an example of poor Nintendo workmanship?

Its funny, I post a harmless factual reference and I'm immediately labeled a Sony hater. It seems to me, that some of you here simply read that part of my post without actually reading the rest of it where I indicted MS as well.

Oh yeah, learn how to carry on a discussion like a civil human being Fathoms, you'd be surprised at the good it will do you.

Yes, I suppose posting this link is trolling as well.

fathoms_basic

You posted no "factual reference." I posted the facts, and they're hardly "anecdotal." They're straightforward statistics that fly in the face of your BS argument.

Your purpose of coming in here was to somehow prove Microsoft's incompetence is due - at least in part - to Sony's because the latter company "set a precedent." That's crap, what you posted was insanely predictable, and that's that. Take it or leave it, champ.

Well at least you got something right. Someone's spouting off BS here. :P

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

It's becoming increasingly evident that Microsoft is going to be forced to correct this issue before they do it on their own. Sad, because it's going to do irrepairable damage to the brand, and the system's library is the best out there in my opinion.

It's good that retailers are reporting how bad this really is, because it's going to force that the issue gets dealt with sooner rather than later. This is the first time in any generation that I've wanted to recommend people a system based on its library, but am unable to do so due to how flat-out unreliable the hardware running it is.

This may be Microsoft's own version of a $600 pricetag. Time will tell.

rragnaar

Not as disappointing or the same in the details, the last gen is the one I see as being the least flawed, with perhaps the exception of the NES/SMS gen, which I don't have much knowledge of.

SNES/Genesis: Not sure about price here. The SNES had the superior hardware and a controller that could adapt, whereas the Genesis just had "blast processing". The Genesis' original, maincontroller was an upgrade over its predecessor analogous to the control upgrade from the GB/GBC to the GBA, except that two buttons were added in the latter case. The SNES definitely deserved to win that gen, even if we didn't pay any heed to the library at all (not saying it didn't matter, just saying the SNES was the better system).

N64/PS/Saturn: N64 had smaller games, a weird controller, and texture problems, whereas the PS had a good controller (in the DualShock, not the previous two), the potential for larger games and audio files, but bad hardware and grainy textures. It also cost more... $100 or so, but I don't really remember exactly. The Saturn was decimated before the other two even started competing seriously, if I recall. And it wasn't that great with 3D games... or at least I think I remember hearing that.

GC/Xbox/PS2: PS2 had lesser hardware, with the exception of the GPU or CPU, I think, and I forget which. But it also had the best controller for most games sty/es, IMO. GC had less disc space and a strange controller, albeit more standard than the N64 one. The Xbox was truly and clearly the best console last gen, but it just didn't do what PlayStation did. Western product. First Western system to be mentioned in the same breath as the two Japanese game giants. Lacking in software diversity. But hardware-wise, it was clearly the best.

Wii/360/PS3: Everyone knows about said "Achilles' heels". This gen is by far the most uncertain and strangest.

[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

It's becoming increasingly evident that Microsoft is going to be forced to correct this issue before they do it on their own. Sad, because it's going to do irrepairable damage to the brand, and the system's library is the best out there in my opinion.

It's good that retailers are reporting how bad this really is, because it's going to force that the issue gets dealt with sooner rather than later. This is the first time in any generation that I've wanted to recommend people a system based on its library, but am unable to do so due to how flat-out unreliable the hardware running it is.

This may be Microsoft's own version of a $600 pricetag. Time will tell.

Angry_Beaver

Not as disappointing or the same in the details, the last gen is the one I see as being the least flawed, with perhaps the exception of the NES/SMS gen, which I don't have much knowledge of.

SNES/Genesis: Not sure about price here. The SNES had the superior hardware and a controller that could adapt, whereas the Genesis just had "blast processing". The Genesis' original, maincontroller was an upgrade over its predecessor analogous to the control upgrade from the GB/GBC to the GBA, except that two buttons were added in the latter case. The SNES definitely deserved to win that gen, even if we didn't pay any heed to the library at all (not saying it didn't matter, just saying the SNES was the better system).

N64/PS/Saturn: N64 had smaller games, a weird controller, and texture problems, whereas the PS had a good controller (in the DualShock, not the previous two), the potential for larger games and audio files, but bad hardware and grainy textures. It also cost more... $100 or so, but I don't really remember exactly. The Saturn was decimated before the other two even started competing seriously, if I recall. And it wasn't that great with 3D games... or at least I think I remember hearing that.

GC/Xbox/PS2: PS2 had lesser hardware, with the exception of the GPU or CPU, I think, and I forget which. But it also had the best controller for most games sty/es, IMO. GC had less disc space and a strange controller, albeit more standard than the N64 one. The Xbox was truly and clearly the best console last gen, but it just didn't do what PlayStation did. Western product. First Western system to be mentioned in the same breath as the two Japanese game giants. Lacking in software diversity. But hardware-wise, it was clearly the best.

Wii/360/PS3: Everyone knows about said "Achilles' heels". This gen is by far the most uncertain and strangest.

It was actuallymore powerfulthan the PSX at 3D games on paper IIRC. It was just so complex and hard to develope for compared to the Playstation that nobody found it worth the time to get the preformance out of it not named Sonic Team, Team Andromeda or AM2 and even they struggled mightily.

[QUOTE="fathoms_basic"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Yes Fathoms, I find that your anecdotal evidence is really a backbreaker. I also find it laughable that you accuse me of trolling given your post history.

You see Fathoms, when I post, I'm engaging in a discussion, sometimes expanding its scope as others have done in this thread as well. Is Mozart a Nintendo hater just because he referenced the NES as an example of poor Nintendo workmanship?

Its funny, I post a harmless factual reference and I'm immediately labeled a Sony hater. It seems to me, that some of you here simply read that part of my post without actually reading the rest of it where I indicted MS as well.

Oh yeah, learn how to carry on a discussion like a civil human being Fathoms, you'd be surprised at the good it will do you.

Yes, I suppose posting this link is trolling as well.

TenaciousD29

You posted no "factual reference." I posted the facts, and they're hardly "anecdotal." They're straightforward statistics that fly in the face of your BS argument.

Your purpose of coming in here was to somehow prove Microsoft's incompetence is due - at least in part - to Sony's because the latter company "set a precedent." That's crap, what you posted was insanely predictable, and that's that. Take it or leave it, champ.

Well at least you got something right. Someone's spouting off BS here. :P

I wasn't going to go there. That would have been too easy.

Marcus, I'm going to nail you on your BS right here and now.

The RUMORS that Sony had bad defective rates with the PS2 were just that: rumors. There was never any substantiated evidence for it, and there's a damn good reason- I worked at EB during the launch, and through the first two years of that console's existence. I remember the defective ratios we reported on those, and I know what the defect rates EB reported in the Northeast, most of the Eastern seaboard, and how the company reported on failure rates as a whole regarding the PS2. And here are the facts-

Sony suffered through a bad launch, reliability-wise, and it was due to the drive scratching game discs, mostly when the system was placed in a vertical position. The defect rates were high; as high as 10% at the time, even 20% for certain individual shipments. That lasted exactly three months. The defect rates continued to fall from March 2001 and on, from January 2002 through the end of the console's existence, the common reported defect rate for the PS2 was between 2 and 4%. They sold 111 million PS2s worldwide, and in the end, it was actually less than 2% that turned out defective, according to the last numbers I saw from Sony and EB.

Sony set no precedent, and you have NO leg to stand on here. Nobody has ever seen a defect rate - especially a sustained defect rate - as high as the 360, and that includes retailers. Nobody has ever seen this absurdly high level of negative press regarding a console's reliability, and that most certainly includes the PS2. It's never even been close. So please STOP trolling threads with your constant anti-Sony nonsense! Especially when you clearly have absolutely no clue what the hell you're talking about.

fathoms_basic

The problem with this argument is that you're basing the overall lifetime failure rate of the PS2 against a console that has only been out for two years. We don't know if the failure rate of the 360 will fall to acceptable ratios at the end of it's lifecycle or not.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Yes Fathoms, I find that your anecdotal evidence is really a backbreaker. I also find it laughable that you accuse me of trolling given your post history.

You see Fathoms, when I post, I'm engaging in a discussion, sometimes expanding its scope as others have done in this thread as well. Is Mozart a Nintendo hater just because he referenced the NES as an example of poor Nintendo workmanship?

Its funny, I post a harmless factual reference and I'm immediately labeled a Sony hater. It seems to me, that some of you here simply read that part of my post without actually reading the rest of it where I indicted MS as well.

Oh yeah, learn how to carry on a discussion like a civil human being Fathoms, you'd be surprised at the good it will do you.

Yes, I suppose posting this link is trolling as well.

fathoms_basic

You posted no "factual reference." I posted the facts, and they're hardly "anecdotal." They're straightforward statistics that fly in the face of your BS argument.

Your purpose of coming in here was to somehow prove Microsoft's incompetence is due - at least in part - to Sony's because the latter company "set a precedent." That's crap, what you posted was insanely predictable, and that's that. Take it or leave it, champ.

Can we stop this so the thread doesn't get locked? There's some good discussion here and it would be nice if it were to go on.

I don't have numbers for the PS2. All I know are these three things:

1. The forums were constantly seeing threads and posts about broken PS2s, especially right after the console launched (which fits the "exactly three months" claim, and it's also to be expected that the most complaints would come in early).

2. There was a c1ass action lawsuit against Sony, about which a link was posted above.

3. Two of my friends had around 3 PS2s, though it must be noted that at least one of them had an early console.

If there was a precedent, Sony set it. But that doesn't excuse MS. It just makes their move--whether deliberate or through negligence--understandable in the context of console history. The earliest console I've heard(i.e. I'm talking about anecdotes and what I've read on Wikipedia)had serious problems was the PS1. After that, the PS2. And now, with numbers AND anecdotes, the Xbox 360. So while we can direct some mental megahertz to blaming Sony, this current problem is all on Microsoft.

[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

It's becoming increasingly evident that Microsoft is going to be forced to correct this issue before they do it on their own. Sad, because it's going to do irrepairable damage to the brand, and the system's library is the best out there in my opinion.

It's good that retailers are reporting how bad this really is, because it's going to force that the issue gets dealt with sooner rather than later. This is the first time in any generation that I've wanted to recommend people a system based on its library, but am unable to do so due to how flat-out unreliable the hardware running it is.

This may be Microsoft's own version of a $600 pricetag. Time will tell.

Angry_Beaver

Not as disappointing or the same in the details, the last gen is the one I see as being the least flawed, with perhaps the exception of the NES/SMS gen, which I don't have much knowledge of.

SNES/Genesis: Not sure about price here. The SNES had the superior hardware and a controller that could adapt, whereas the Genesis just had "blast processing". The Genesis' original, maincontroller was an upgrade over its predecessor analogous to the control upgrade from the GB/GBC to the GBA, except that two buttons were added in the latter case. The SNES definitely deserved to win that gen, even if we didn't pay any heed to the library at all (not saying it didn't matter, just saying the SNES was the better system).

N64/PS/Saturn: N64 had smaller games, a weird controller, and texture problems, whereas the PS had a good controller (in the DualShock, not the previous two), the potential for larger games and audio files, but bad hardware and grainy textures. It also cost more... $100 or so, but I don't really remember exactly. The Saturn was decimated before the other two even started competing seriously, if I recall. And it wasn't that great with 3D games... or at least I think I remember hearing that.

GC/Xbox/PS2: PS2 had lesser hardware, with the exception of the GPU or CPU, I think, and I forget which. But it also had the best controller for most games sty/es, IMO. GC had less disc space and a strange controller, albeit more standard than the N64 one. The Xbox was truly and clearly the best console last gen, but it just didn't do what PlayStation did. Western product. First Western system to be mentioned in the same breath as the two Japanese game giants. Lacking in software diversity. But hardware-wise, it was clearly the best.

Wii/360/PS3: Everyone knows about said "Achilles' heels". This gen is by far the most uncertain and strangest.

Wow.dohhyulittle

:lol:

I don't understand though. Does it matter? From what I understand, if you 360 dies, they will replace it, no?rimnet00

Yes but its a hassle and not always clear how long they will replace it, or how long the "fixed" console will stay fixed. I'm on the a 3rd console at this moment, but its been a year since my last replacement so I'm not happily awaiting my next soon to be failure.

You posted no "factual reference." I posted the facts, and they're hardly "anecdotal." They're straightforward statistics that fly in the face of your BS argument.

Your purpose of coming in here was to somehow prove Microsoft's incompetence is due - at least in part - to Sony's because the latter company "set a precedent." That's crap, what you posted was insanely predictable, and that's that. Take it or leave it, champ.

fathoms_basic

I must have missed it because I didn't see any statistics in that link.