Yet another ridiculous defense of day-one DLC

I don't understand the outcry. What's the big f*cking deal about day-one add-ons? If you don't want them, don't buy 'em. Acting like they're some affront to our rights is just ridiculous.

c_rake

I don't understand the outcry. What's the big f*cking deal about day-one add-ons? If you don't want them, don't buy 'em. Acting like they're some affront to our rights is just ridiculous.

c_rake

The problem is, certain developers will take out content that may be important to the actual game simple to sell it as DLC to collect more cash. It's not necessarily the idea of Day 1 DLC, as it is the application of the idea.ArchonOver

Is that really a wide-spread issue? I know there's evidence to suggest its possible, but have ever ever run into a clear-cut case of holding back content as DLC?

It's a two sided thing. Day one DLC that indeed was developed while the development process of the base game was finished as "time killing" so the people who worked on the game have something to do that is directly linked to it instead of being fired and sitting on the street or getting thrown around in other dev teams is ok in my opinion. I don't exactly like it either, but at least it's reasonable.

Where it indeed IS a greedy fraud is when it's Day One DLC that IS already on the disc and locked away or if stuff that actually was intended to be in the base game is cut out to be then sold as day one DLC. And here I can understand all the "outcry" there is.

Justforvisit

Depends on the content. If we're talking something like fighting games, where everyone needs to be able to see DLC characters even if they haven't bought them, that's fine. Technical limitations force this upon them. I think it was the 2011 Mortal Kombat game that didn't do that and had a ton of issues because of it.

Now if we're talking about, say, a mode that's on the disc from day-one and is locked until a month or two after release (want to say there was a game that did this in some manner?), that's dumb. Even if its free, that's dumb. In fact, it being free makes it worse, because what's the f*cking point in locking the damn thing away? All they're doing at that point is holding content ransome with no benefit. Just unlock it from the start and save everyone time.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/400341/bethesdas-hines-thinks-some-gamers-misunderstand-day-one-dlc/?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-News-RSS

This time is Bethesda's markeping VP. I paraphrase what he said:

"Gamers who complain about day one DLC don't understand how game-making works. We finish the game months before it hits the shelves, so in these months we can't just waste our creative team on bug fixing, so we make them produce DLC for the game."

This excuse is stupid for three reason:

1) If bug fixing is such a trivial and routine matter, why did Skyrim come out in a barely playable form with more bugs than anyone could count that Besthesda had to work for months to fix?

2) If bug fixing is such a trivial and routine matter and the development of DLC doesn't interfere with it, why did the trend of releasing buggy, unfinished games start simultaneously with the DLC trend? In other words: last gen had no DLC and I can't think of a single game that had a game-breaking bug.

3) This guy doesn't realise that we have no objection to day-one DLC per se: we object to being charged extra for it when it could be included in the game disc.

Can't put in the disc? Either release it for free or be smart and release it a few months later so that no one will complain. Just stop blaming us for your greed/stupidity.

Black_Knight_00

After reading the article, I don't see how he said that bug fixing is "trivial" or "routine". In fact what he said suggests something else entirely, which is that fixing bugs in a modern AAA game is a time-consuming process that takes up a large portion of the end of the development cycle. Here's the real quote:

"There's a pretty long gap where your artists and designers are fixing a bug if they get one, or they may be playing the game to find bugs, but they're not making a new anything for a long time, and you have creative people who are used to creating - so why would you make them wait some period of time, months in some cases, to start making new stuff so you can say it was after DLC?""

What he *actually* said is that a bunch of people are twiddling their thumbs instead of doing what they're actually good at: making content. So they have them make DLC.

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

I don't understand the outcry. What's the big f*cking deal about day-one add-ons? If you don't want them, don't buy 'em. Acting like they're some affront to our rights is just ridiculous.

ArchonOver

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/400341/bethesdas-hines-thinks-some-gamers-misunderstand-day-one-dlc/?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-News-RSS

This time is Bethesda's markeping VP. I paraphrase what he said:

"Gamers who complain about day one DLC don't understand how game-making works. We finish the game months before it hits the shelves, so in these months we can't just waste our creative team on bug fixing, so we make them produce DLC for the game."

This excuse is stupid for three reason:

1) If bug fixing is such a trivial and routine matter, why did Skyrim come out in a barely playable form with more bugs than anyone could count that Besthesda had to work for months to fix?

2) If bug fixing is such a trivial and routine matter and the development of DLC doesn't interfere with it, why did the trend of releasing buggy, unfinished games start simultaneously with the DLC trend? In other words: last gen had no DLC and I can't think of a single game that had a game-breaking bug.

3) This guy doesn't realise that we have no objection to day-one DLC per se: we object to being charged extra for it when it could be included in the game disc.

Can't put in the disc? Either release it for free or be smart and release it a few months later so that no one will complain. Just stop blaming us for your greed/stupidity.

Teufelhuhn

After reading the article, I don't see how he said that bug fixing is "trivial" or "routine". In fact what he said suggests something else entirely, which is that fixing bugs in a modern AAA game is a time-consuming process that takes up a large portion of the end of the development cycle. Here's the real quote:

"There's a pretty long gap where your artists and designers are fixing a bug if they get one, or they may be playing the game to find bugs, but they're not making a new anything for a long time, and you have creative people who are used to creating - so why would you make them wait some period of time, months in some cases, to start making new stuff so you can say it was after DLC?""

What he *actually* said is that a bunch of people are twiddling their thumbs instead of doing what they're actually good at: making content. So they have them make DLC.

Even if that is true they are releasing a faulty product and using the difficulty of it's creation as an excuse. I'm glad that logic isn't tolerated in the automobile industry, construction, e.t.c; And the ironic thing is that the horrible time constraints set by publishers(?) are the cause of most buggy games in the first place.

Even if that is true they are releasing a faulty product and using the difficulty of it's creation as an excuse. I'm glad that logic isn't tolerated in the automobile industry, construction, e.t.c; And the ironic thing is that the horrible time constraints set by publishers(?) are the cause of most buggy games in the first place.

anthonycg

It not we want a rear ending to cause a fire...oh wait http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G_dt-lQVS8 ...forget I said anything.

You posted a video about a car in a time where cars didn't even have anti-lock brakes. Why not post the leaning tower of Pizza while you're at it? Or maybe the Wright Brother's airplane is a good one... Yeah.... 

You posted a video about a car in a time where cars didn't even have anti-lock brakes. Why not post the leaning tower of Pizza while you're at it? Or maybe the Wright Brother's airplane is a good one... Yeah.... 

anthonycg

You posted a video about a car in a time where cars didn't even have anti-lock brakes. Why not post the leaning tower of Pizza while you're at it? Or maybe the Wright Brother's airplane is a good one... Yeah.... 

anthonycg

F*ck, that sounds delicious. Where the heck can I find this baby? :lol:

[QUOTE="anthonycg"]

You posted a video about a car in a time where cars didn't even have anti-lock brakes. Why not post the leaning tower of Pizza while you're at it? Or maybe the Wright Brother's airplane is a good one... Yeah.... 

Lucky_Krystal

F*ck, that sounds delicious. Where the heck can I find this baby? :lol:

It's because they're greedy. No matter what these BS game devs and publishers tell the public, the reason they make you pay an extra 10-30 dollars on top of the 60 for a new game is because they're greedy corporate b@stards.

zombehhhhh

That is right, it has nothing to do with the cost of games increasing while greedy gamers refuses to pay more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugjvWw4Hbg0

It's because they're greedy. No matter what these BS game devs and publishers tell the public, the reason they make you pay an extra 10-30 dollars on top of the 60 for a new game is because they're greedy corporate b@stards.

[QUOTE="Lucky_Krystal"]

[QUOTE="anthonycg"]

You posted a video about a car in a time where cars didn't even have anti-lock brakes. Why not post the leaning tower of Pizza while you're at it? Or maybe the Wright Brother's airplane is a good one... Yeah.... 

Black_Knight_00

F*ck, that sounds delicious. Where the heck can I find this baby? :lol:

Damn, Civ V had it all wrong then. That really would be a Wonder of the World.

"Gamers who complain about day one DLC don't understand how game-making works. We finish the game months before it hits the shelves, so in these months we can't just waste our creative team on bug fixing, so we make them produce DLC for the game." 

I consider fixing game bugs before a game is on sale a good utilization of time. If there are issues with a title which prevent a gamer from playing a game, he or she might not ever buy the title in question. In such a case as not buying a game, getting downloable content for it would be pointless and never be bought, either. A well-made game is a good purchase and should be the standard game makers work for. Extra content is not as important as main content.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/400341/bethesdas-hines-thinks-some-gamers-misunderstand-day-one-dlc/?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-News-RSS

This time is Bethesda's markeping VP. I paraphrase what he said:

"Gamers who complain about day one DLC don't understand how game-making works. We finish the game months before it hits the shelves, so in these months we can't just waste our creative team on bug fixing, so we make them produce DLC for the game."

This excuse is stupid for three reason:

1) If bug fixing is such a trivial and routine matter, why did Skyrim come out in a barely playable form with more bugs than anyone could count that Besthesda had to work for months to fix?

2) If bug fixing is such a trivial and routine matter and the development of DLC doesn't interfere with it, why did the trend of releasing buggy, unfinished games start simultaneously with the DLC trend? In other words: last gen had no DLC and I can't think of a single game that had a game-breaking bug.

3) This guy doesn't realise that we have no objection to day-one DLC per se: we object to being charged extra for it when it could be included in the game disc.

Can't put in the disc? Either release it for free or be smart and release it a few months later so that no one will complain. Just stop blaming us for your greed/stupidity.

Black_Knight_00

After reading the article, I don't see how he said that bug fixing is "trivial" or "routine". In fact what he said suggests something else entirely, which is that fixing bugs in a modern AAA game is a time-consuming process that takes up a large portion of the end of the development cycle. Here's the real quote:

"There's a pretty long gap where your artists and designers are fixing a bug if they get one, or they may be playing the game to find bugs, but they're not making a new anything for a long time, and you have creative people who are used to creating - so why would you make them wait some period of time, months in some cases, to start making new stuff so you can say it was after DLC?""

What he *actually* said is that a bunch of people are twiddling their thumbs instead of doing what they're actually good at: making content. So they have them make DLC.

Are you suggesting that content people work on DLC when they could be fixing bugs?Teufelhuhn

It does sound weird, that "artists fixing bugs", but that's word by word what he said, as you can confirm. What it sounds like to me is "Our staff prefers making DLC than doing bug fixing." Judge for yourself.