I'm disappointed in the amount of selfish Nintendo fans lately

It's time to stop complaining over Nintendo's E3 and all this rubbish about them not catering to the hardcore.

In only 20 months of the Wii's life cycle, Nintendo has already given us installments from their main franchise hits -- what the hardcore fans want. Metroid, Mario, Paper Mario, Zelda, Brawl, Kart, Fire Emblem, Pokemon etc. as opposed to what.. Wii Sports and Wii Fit for the casuals?

For 2008, as for as we know, we're getting Wario Land, Animal Crossing, Fatal Frame IV and probably Disaster. At E3, Pikmin and Zelda were confirmed and Kid Icarus is almost definitely coming. Not only that, but amazing first party devs like Retro and Intelligent Systems are also working on Wii games.

Yet people still complain. Nintendo has just finished games from the end of 2007, Mario Kart, and are making Animal Crossing and Wii Music. How many freaking games do you think they can handle at once all ready to be announced and on shelves by the end of 2008?

As Iwata said: Big games take time to make. It's not hard to understand.

Bottom line: The hardcore games from Nintendo are coming, just be patient. They can't make 100 games at once.

I agree. The thought of Intelligent Systems and Retro(both sit completely empty, aside from possibly the translation of Fire Emblem DS), sitting their working on who knows how many projects, makes me happy.

Also, if you skim through all the Nintendo games(for Wii and DS) that have already been announced. You will notice that it is a fairly small list for what they can produce. Especially when you consider that games like Wario Land and Fire Emblem DS are completed and awaiting translation.

Nintendo has a lot of stuff up their sleeves, we just need to wait for them to show it.

I like how this was posted like a minute after the "I've been very angry at Nintendo lately" thread :P.

But yes I agree, people need to calm down. Nintendo has not forgot about the "hardcore" gamers. The thing for me though, is that I know there are more hardcore games and stuff coming, but Nintendo just isn't showcasing them (like the E3 press conference, they just talked about their sales and casual games).

lol, selfish? It's selfish now to expect good games? To expect third party support (and Nintendo forcefully going after it)?

Don't you think it's a little more selfish to...oh, say, cash in on the casual gaming frenzy with a bunch of mediocre games rather than complaining about it?

lol, selfish? It's selfish now to expect good games? To expect third party support (and Nintendo forcefully going after it)?

Don't you think it's a little more selfish to...oh, say, cash in on the casual gaming frenzy with a bunch of mediocre games rather than complaining about it?

clicketyclick

We did expect good games, and we're getting them

Third party support is constantly getting better

Cashing in on casual gaming? Nintendo hasn't done that. Wii Sports was a bundle game, Wii Play is a remote and Wii Fit althoguh very casual had alot of effort put into it.

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"]

lol, selfish? It's selfish now to expect good games? To expect third party support (and Nintendo forcefully going after it)?

Don't you think it's a little more selfish to...oh, say, cash in on the casual gaming frenzy with a bunch of mediocre games rather than complaining about it?

Erebyssial

We did expect good games, and we're getting them

Third party support is constantly getting better

Cashing in on casual gaming? Nintendo hasn't done that. Wii Sports was a bundle game, Wii Play is a remote and Wii Fit althoguh very casual had alot of effort put into it.

I honestly only know 2 people who have that game...Nintendo isn't "cashing" in, they're just attracting users with those bundle....the other casual games on the Wii from third party and stuff, really isn't all that great...

And yes the good games are coming, patience is the key :).

We did expect good games, and we're getting themErebyssial

Very few. The rate of stud-to-dud is low indeed.

Third party support is constantly getting betterErebyssial

Is that so? The quality too?

Cashing in on casual gaming? Nintendo hasn't done that.Erebyssial

Never said I was referring just to Nintendo.

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]

We did expect good games, and we're getting themclicketyclick

Very few. The rate of stud-to-dud is low indeed.

First party: Wario Land, Disaster, Animal Crossing, Fatal Frame IV, Zelda, Pikmin, 99% Kid Icarus and stuff we don't know about from devs like Retro.

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]Third party support is constantly getting betterclicketyclick

Is that so? The quality too?

Yes. Compare current and upcoming third party titles for 2008/2009 to what we had last year and 2006.

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]Cashing in on casual gaming? Nintendo hasn't done that.clicketyclick

Never said I was referring just to Nintendo.

I'm talking about Nintendo and their fans that are complaining about them, not third parties.

First party: Wario Land, Disaster, Animal Crossing, Fatal Frame IV, Zelda, Pikmin, 99% Kid Icarus and stuff we don't know about from devs like Retro.Erebyssial

How can you judge whether it's a hit or a miss if it's not out yet? I'm talking about critical reception.

Yes. Compare current and upcoming third party titles for 2008/2009 to what we had last year and 2006.Erebyssial

Are you going to give me the average of third party titles from 2008 and compare it to the average of third party titles from 2007? Because I suspect the average is getting lower. It's an interesting area of simple statistical calculations to pursue. I think I'll do the calcs tomorrow and make a thread. Thanks for the idea.

I'm talking about Nintendo and their fans that are complaining about them, not third parties.

Erebyssial

Nintendo is a publisher and a console maker, not just a developer.

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="Erebyssial"]

We did expect good games, and we're getting themErebyssial

Very few. The rate of stud-to-dud is low indeed.

First party: Wario Land, Disaster, Animal Crossing, Fatal Frame IV, Zelda, Pikmin, 99% Kid Icarus and stuff we don't know about from devs like Retro.

Fatal Frame IV....is first party?

I'm disappointed in the number of blind worshipping Nintendo fans.Englando_IV

Blind people are worshipping Nintendo fans?

[QUOTE="Englando_IV"]I'm disappointed in the number of blind worshipping Nintendo fans.Huell_Howser

Blind people are worshipping Nintendo fans?

I added a comma for you, but that sentence implied Nintedo fans who worshipped blind people, to me. It kind of works both ways. Weird.

Fatal Frame IV....is first party?

Bass7

I agree that people complain too much. I doubt the complainers own and have completed all of Nintendo's first party Wii games already.

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]First party: Wario Land, Disaster, Animal Crossing, Fatal Frame IV, Zelda, Pikmin, 99% Kid Icarus and stuff we don't know about from devs like Retro.clicketyclick

How can you judge whether it's a hit or a miss if it's not out yet? I'm talking about critical reception.

You could say that for every upcoming game on every console and say its lineup is crap. How is it any different for the Wii?

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]Yes. Compare current and upcoming third party titles for 2008/2009 to what we had last year and 2006.clicketyclick

Are you going to give me the average of third party titles from 2008 and compare it to the average of third party titles from 2007? Because I suspect the average is getting lower. It's an interesting area of simple statistical calculations to pursue. I think I'll do the calcs tomorrow and make a thread. Thanks for the idea.

Averages? The PS2 had the lowest average of games last gen, and it didn't mean anything.

Explain how Wii's third party support isn't getting better, because it clearly is.

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]I'm talking about Nintendo and their fans that are complaining about them, not third parties.

clicketyclick

Nintendo is a publisher and a console maker, not just a developer.

And?

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="Erebyssial"]

We did expect good games, and we're getting themBass7

Very few. The rate of stud-to-dud is low indeed.

First party: Wario Land, Disaster, Animal Crossing, Fatal Frame IV, Zelda, Pikmin, 99% Kid Icarus and stuff we don't know about from devs like Retro.

Fatal Frame IV....is first party?

Yeah Nintendo's publishing it but I'm not sure how large a role they have in developing it.

You could say that for every upcoming game on every console and say its lineup is crap. How is it any different for the Wii?Erebyssial

It's no different. I'm talking about games already out, and people are complaining about that, and they're looking at the Wii's future in 2009, and not seeing many good games (or surprises) for them on the horizon.

Averages? The PS2 had the lowest average of games last gen, and it didn't mean anything.Erebyssial

That so? I bet the PS2's average is higher than the Wii's.

Explain how Wii's third party support isn't getting better, because it clearly is.Erebyssial

Because most 3rd party games still suck.

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="Erebyssial"]I'm talking about Nintendo and their fans that are complaining about them, not third parties.

Erebyssial

Nintendo is a publisher and a console maker, not just a developer.

And?

And so one can be a Nintendo fan at the same time as criticising Nintendo's 3rd party support for its latest console as well as criticising their 1st party lineup.

[QUOTE="Bass7"][QUOTE="Erebyssial"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="Erebyssial"]

We did expect good games, and we're getting themErebyssial

Very few. The rate of stud-to-dud is low indeed.

First party: Wario Land, Disaster, Animal Crossing, Fatal Frame IV, Zelda, Pikmin, 99% Kid Icarus and stuff we don't know about from devs like Retro.

Fatal Frame IV....is first party?

Yeah Nintendo's publishing it but I'm not sure how large a role they have in developing it.

Ah I didn't know :P....there hasn't been very much information on the game, so I never had a chance to really do any research on it.

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]

You could say that for every upcoming game on every console and say its lineup is crap. How is it any different for the Wii?clicketyclick

It's no different. I'm talking about games already out, and people are complaining about that, and they're looking at the Wii's future in 2009, and not seeing many good games (or surprises) for them on the horizon.

Once again this is about Nintendo, they haven't done anything wrong with quality Wii games. 2009? We can't see that many big games in 2009 because they're not announced yet. :|

Averages mean nothing. The good games are the ones that matter, not the bad ones.

Third party support: There are more third party Wii games rated over 80% on gamerankings already in 2008 than 2006 and 2007 combined. We're getting games like The Conduit, CoD and Tales of Symphonia that we didn't see last year. Effort is being put into the Wii version of multiplats which we barely saw last year. I could go on.

Once again this is about Nintendo, they haven't done anything wrong with quality Wii games. 2009? We can't see that many big games in 2009 because they're not announced yet. :|Erebyssial

Nintendo said there are no more surprises. They've announced everything coming out in 2009 (except WiiWare and VC titles.) That's it. That's all we're getting. Fini. That is why people are upset.

Averages mean nothing. The good games are the ones that matter, not the bad ones.Erebyssial

Bad games impact reputation as many people don't look at reviews before buying. And even if you just consider the top five games, PS3 and 360 still beat Wii out in that respect. GamesRadar did a comparison.

Third party support: There are more third party Wii games rated over 80% on gamerankings already in 2008 than 2006 and 2007 combined.Erebyssial

I suspect there are also more third-party Wii games rated under 80%. ;) Straight-up number comparisons mean nothing, because of course there are going to be more titles the more years the console is on the market since the installed base increases. It's the ratio of good to bad that is a true measure of improvement.

We're getting games like The Conduit, CoD and Tales of Symphonia that we didn't see last year. Effort is being put into the Wii version of multiplats which we barely saw last year. I could go on.Erebyssial

Well maybe you should because the Conduit doesn't really impress me (though it's sad to see how desperate Wii fans are that they are clinging hopefully to it; the comments on the videos are precious. "Please don't turn out to be crap!" etc.) and I don't have high hopes for CoD after CoD3 from 2006.

I like how this was posted like a minute after the "I've been very angry at Nintendo lately" thread :P.

But yes I agree, people need to calm down. Nintendo has not forgot about the "hardcore" gamers. The thing for me though, is that I know there are more hardcore games and stuff coming, but Nintendo just isn't showcasing them (like the E3 press conference, they just talked about their sales and casual games).

Bass7

Thats nintendo for you. Nintendo never announces stuff as soon as they decide to make it. They like to have proof that it is in development. They wait to announce, unlike M$ who " hey guys... this new game, hasn't started dev yet........... but 2010 and its OUT !! " no... thats no fun/

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]Once again this is about Nintendo, they haven't done anything wrong with quality Wii games. 2009? We can't see that many big games in 2009 because they're not announced yet. :|clicketyclick

Nintendo said there are no more surprises. They've announced everything coming out in 2009 (except WiiWare and VC titles.) That's it. That's all we're getting. Fini. That is why people are upset.

..I hope you're joking

I'm not gonna bother going into third party again because I'm just repeating myself and you're ignoring the facts

lol, selfish? It's selfish now to expect good games? To expect third party support (and Nintendo forcefully going after it)?

Don't you think it's a little more selfish to...oh, say, cash in on the casual gaming frenzy with a bunch of mediocre games rather than complaining about it?

clicketyclick

And considering that Reggie said in an interview there would be a game for core gamers, I think we have every right to complain.

Yes im selfish, im selfish for supporting nintendo eversince the n64 era(that was the time that I really started playing games) and expecting them to at least give us (the long time nintendo fans) something that would be of our interestArclight_Blue

Animal Crossing, Wario Land, Fatal Frame IV and Disaster this year from first party? This is what I'm trying to say, everyone was expecting more games, they exist.. they just weren't ready for E3 and a 2008 release.

how does it make me selfish to say that nintendo's e3 conference was bad?presto7640

Nope, Nintendo's conference did suck.

The people I'm refering to are the ones saying Nintendo isn't catering to the hardcore anymore and blah blah blah which is just a load of crap.

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"]

lol, selfish? It's selfish now to expect good games? To expect third party support (and Nintendo forcefully going after it)?

Don't you think it's a little more selfish to...oh, say, cash in on the casual gaming frenzy with a bunch of mediocre games rather than complaining about it?

Dark_Knight6

And considering that Reggie said in an interview there would be a game for core gamers, I think we have every right to complain.

I agree Reggie made a mistake on that one, but I'm not only talking about E3 and 2008. This goes back to my point that Nintendo needs time to make the big titles, and since their main games were finished in 2007 they obviously need more than a year to release the same amount of quality again.

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"]

lol, selfish? It's selfish now to expect good games? To expect third party support (and Nintendo forcefully going after it)?

Don't you think it's a little more selfish to...oh, say, cash in on the casual gaming frenzy with a bunch of mediocre games rather than complaining about it?

Erebyssial

And considering that Reggie said in an interview there would be a game for core gamers, I think we have every right to complain.

I agree Reggie made a mistake on that one, but I'm not only talking about E3 and 2008. This goes back to my point that Nintendo needs time to make the big titles, and since their main games were finished in 2007 they obviously need more than a year to release the same amount of quality again.

I'm not asking for a new Metroid, Zelda, and Mario each year but some good new, core IPs wouldn't hurt.

[QUOTE="Arclight_Blue"]Yes im selfish, im selfish for supporting nintendo eversince the n64 era(that was the time that I really started playing games) and expecting them to at least give us (the long time nintendo fans) something that would be of our interestErebyssial

Animal Crossing, Wario Land, Fatal Frame IV and Disaster this year from first party? This is what I'm trying to say, everyone was expecting more games, they exist.. they just weren't ready for E3 and a 2008 release.

whoa there, Disaster doesnt have a "proper" release date yet, the last news that we heard about that game was it was being delayed, pushed, whatever...

yep, I expected more, probably because that @$^ reggie hyped us(core fans) before E3, only to come out with more casual ware and a potential noise maker

But here is the problem with the "Confirmed" Zelda. If they actually "confirmed" it, which was barely noticable in the first place, don't you know that it will take them years to finish it? God knows if they have even started it, it's silly for everyone to say "they're bringing a new zelda." It wasn't an actual announcement like the other games, which are coming out in a couple of months. It will take years. So saying "Stop being so selfish, they announced a new zelda" is like saying "Stop being so selfish, you can have dinner next week."

But here is the problem with the "Confirmed" Zelda. If they actually "confirmed" it, which was barely noticable in the first place, don't you know that it will take them years to finish it? God knows if they have even started it, it's silly for everyone to say "they're bringing a new zelda." It wasn't an actual announcement like the other games, which are coming out in a couple of months. It will take years. So saying "Stop being so selfish, they announced a new zelda" is like saying "Stop being so selfish, you can have dinner next week."

amirbrandon

Don't forget that Miyamoto is a perfectionist and takes his time on games.

But here is the problem with the "Confirmed" Zelda. If they actually "confirmed" it, which was barely noticable in the first place, don't you know that it will take them years to finish it? God knows if they have even started it, it's silly for everyone to say "they're bringing a new zelda." It wasn't an actual announcement like the other games, which are coming out in a couple of months. It will take years. So saying "Stop being so selfish, they announced a new zelda" is like saying "Stop being so selfish, you can have dinner next week."

amirbrandon

Zelda Wii was confirmed at E3 2007 to be in development and at this year's E3 Miyamoto said it's coming along nicely. It should be due by the end of 2009 with the usual three year cycle, possibly a bit longer but definitely not years from now.

Wait, wait, wait. E3 has been over for a while, Miyamoto already confirmed a new zelda, mario, and pikmin 3, and 3rd-party support is slowly but surely improving, yet people here are STILL playing the hate game on Nintendo?mkDSpro63

But unfortunately it takes a while to develop games like Zelda and Mario.

I agree with the TC, we already got many games from Nintendo and a few great ones from third-parties. How many great thrid-party games are coming out this year? I think we should complain about them, not a about a company that has already given us games like Brawl, Mario Kart, Twilight Princess (a GC port), Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, Wario Ware and other nice games.

We have yet to see any third party developers taking the Wii more serious then last year. Capcom and EA is the only third party developer that cares about us core gamers. The rest sees the Wii as a casual money maker.JLF1

Namco: Tales of Symphonia 2, Fragile, unannounced Tales game for 09.

Activision: CoD: World at War is built specifically for the Wii, GH: World Tour has DLC for the Wii version

THQ: de Blob and Deadly Creatures, IGN have said good stuff about them

Sega: MadWorld, Sonic Unleashed and the new Wii exclusive Sonic game

Square-Enix: FF Fables, My Life as a King, FFCC: Crystal Bearers

Other: The Conduit, Force Unleashed built for Wii, Little King's Story and others I cant think of. Plus all the great stuff we've already got this year. Seriously there's lots of this we didn't see last year.

[QUOTE="mkDSpro63"]Wait, wait, wait. E3 has been over for a while, Miyamoto already confirmed a new zelda, mario, and pikmin 3, and 3rd-party support is slowly but surely improving, yet people here are STILL playing the hate game on Nintendo?JLF1

We could have games now as a rushed product or wait until it's finished. This is what I'm talking about, too many people assume Nintendo can make huge games in such a short period of time.

I made a similar thread a few days ago.

Hopefully this gets as much attention as mine got.

Gamers have become spoilt, really, they have.
Haziqonfire

Yeah, I made a similar thread like this the same day of Nintendo's press conference as well as one on my blog. It really is the truth. Some of these complaining gamers need lives or to just finish other games in the meantime. I personally am taking my time with The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess in order to get the most out of it and not to feel like I rushed through the game (It's the same way with eating speed; eat slower and you get to savor the taste of the food). I am enjoying the other games I haven't finished, especially some that I still have from Gamecube. Nintendo is giving many fans more time to finish games before they release another deep game. One thing I think Nintendo should do is release Super Smash Bros. on the VC, that should keep some people busy.

Namco: Tales of Symphonia 2, Fragile, unannounced Tales game for 09.

Activision: CoD: World at War is built specifically for the Wii, GH: World Tour has DLC for the Wii version

THQ: de Blob and Deadly Creatures, IGN have said good stuff about them

Sega: MadWorld, Sonic Unleashed and the new Wii exclusive Sonic game

Square-Enix: FF Fables, My Life as a King, FFCC: Crystal Bearers

Other: The Conduit, Force Unleashed built for Wii, Little King's Story and others I cant think of. Plus all the great stuff we've already got this year. Seriously there's lots of this we didn't see last year.

Erebyssial

*Sonic and the Black Knight

Arc Rise Fantasia

Dead Rising:Chop till you drop

Major Minor's Majestic March(from the makers of PaRappa the Rapper)

Sam & Max

Runefactory Wii

Animal Crossing, Wario Land, Fatal Frame IV and Disaster this year from first party? This is what I'm trying to say, everyone was expecting more games, they exist.. they just weren't ready for E3 and a 2008 release.Erebyssial

Of those, only Fatal Frame interests me.

This goes back to my point that Nintendo needs time to make the big titles, and since their main games were finished in 2007 they obviously need more than a year to release the same amount of quality again ...We could have games now as a rushed product or wait until it's finished. This is what I'm talking about, too many people assume Nintendo can make huge games in such a short period of time.Erebyssial

Other publishers, like EA, manage to put out many games that interest me every year. Nintendo manages to put out many casual games. What's next? Wii Ballet and for DS, Vision Training and Face Training? Oh wait, those two already exist!

Wait, wait, wait. E3 has been over for a while, Miyamoto already confirmed a new zelda, mario, and pikmin 3, and 3rd-party support is slowly but surely improving, yet people here are STILL playing the hate game on Nintendo?mkDSpro63

You wanna know why? Listen toDark_Knight6, who said, "I'm not asking for a new Metroid, Zelda, and Mario each year but some good new, core IPs wouldn't hurt."

Some of these complaining gamers need lives or to just finish other games in the meantime. I personally am taking my time with The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess in order to get the most out of it and not to feel like I rushed through the game (It's the same way with eating speed; eat slower and you get to savor the taste of the food). I am enjoying the other games I haven't finished, especially some that I still have from Gamecube. Nintendo is giving many fans more time to finish games before they release another deep game.livinitup01

What a bunch of apologist crap. Fans don't want more time to "finish games"; they want new games. I spent 70+ hours on TP thankyouverymuch, and yes I do have a life; I'm a university student. I haven't finished every game I want to play for 2008, but I want games on the horizon in 2009 that I'm willing to buy. I'll never sell my Wii, but I am seriously considering getting a PS3.

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]Zelda Wii was confirmed at E3 2007 to be in development and at this year's E3 Miyamoto said it's coming along nicely. It should be due by the end of 2009 with the usual three year cycle, possibly a bit longer but definitely not years from now.clicketyclick

It will be years from now. Reggie said that They've already announced everything for 2009! How many times do I have to repeat myself? How much longer are YOU going to be "ignoring the facts"?

Hold on. That's not true is it? I thought it was just 2008 that they've announced all their first party releases for. Do you have a source for this?