New "Tales of" game Tales of Graces information and discussion

There better be more main story to make up for it. Dawn was way to freaking short for a tales game, partially because of that.Saxsoon

Sweet, cant wait for it. Love the fact that the overworld was ditched, cuts the 5 accumulated hours of roaming and battles in between actual areas.

Both Tales games in that video look awesome! 8)

It's too bad there's no world map. It might be pretty good, tales of symphonia 2 was awful.

[QUOTE="Saxsoon"]There better be more main story to make up for it. Dawn was way to freaking short for a tales game, partially because of that.AlexSays

A little dissappointed to hear that there isn't a world map. Sure, you could get lost and spend lots of time in it, but I loved exploring the maps on Symphonia and the random battles were great training, especially in the beginning.

Oh well, I'm sure it will still be an excellent game, even without the world map.

No world map; well crap. Don't get me wrong, I love DotNW even without a map; but I would love it more with a map. I love the exploration involved with world maps and RPG's in general (final fantasies for example) are dumping world maps all together. It adds another layer of challege and satisfaction. It also makes the world seem bigger and more epic; that example is most present in the original Symphonia. When you finally get to Tethaella and hear that awesome music, it really gives the game an epic feel. Oh well, I know I will still love this game regardless; I love the Tales series.

Figuring out what to do next is what makes any game fun. When they tell you what to do its like, ok follow the line to the next battle. Don't get me wrong I really enjoued DotNW but the original was so much better.firefox59

I don't know... I mean for startes I don't like the Tales of Destiny team. Tales of Destiny, Tales of Destiny 2 (or Tales of Eternia or whichever one it is) weren't enjoyable Tales games. And the fact that the rest of their products haven't been released outside of Japan... Yeah, I don't think so. A 7.0 at best, and Namco isn't known for doing their best.

I'm going to keep a pessimistic opinion until the final product, and I really doubt I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Uhh no. I knew what you had to do next in the original. The thing was if you shut the game off and came back on, you had no idea where to go because either (A) you forgot what previously happened or (B) nothing's labeled so you don't know where anything is! If people are going to ask for a world map, how about actually asking for a map? The overworld was ridiculous enough, but not knowing where certain locations were made the game tedious. .AlexSays

There is a new Tales of Graces trailer, here is the link(thanks to youtube user lafut4 for the video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=punKaeGQ1VYcurrentlemon

The best part about Symphonia was if you walked away for a week you could just go to the Synopsis and catch yourself back up on the story; it was the greatest invention in RPG history. And there also was a map you could view by pressing Z or something (can't remember the controls exactly). Tales of the Abyss had teh same stuff. Did you really play Symphonia?roboccs

[QUOTE="firefox59"]Figuring out what to do next is what makes any game fun. When they tell you what to do its like, ok follow the line to the next battle. Don't get me wrong I really enjoued DotNW but the original was so much better.AlexSays

You know the game supplied you with a word map with locations for both Sylvarant and Tethealla. Plus there was an in game record telling you what you have already done and what date you did it on!!! Guess you never knew about those tools...firefox59

1. Labeled maps? Other than the little dots showing locations you've previously visited, I don't know what you're talking about.

2. Never said anything about what I've already done. What's done is done and that's great.

[QUOTE="roboccs"]The best part about Symphonia was if you walked away for a week you could just go to the Synopsis and catch yourself back up on the story; it was the greatest invention in RPG history. And there also was a map you could view by pressing Z or something (can't remember the controls exactly). Tales of the Abyss had teh same stuff. Did you really play Symphonia?AlexSays

No overworld? Darn, I missed that in Dawn of the New World. Classic Controller support? Hm, maybe I'll finally buy one. I'm curious as to what this sidestep thing is and the characters having different ways of fighting is.

the game keep better

No overworld? Darn, I missed that in Dawn of the New World. Classic Controller support? Hm, maybe I'll finally buy one. I'm curious as to what this sidestep thing is and the characters having different ways of fighting is.

Shy_Guy_Red

1. The synopsis also tells you "let's head to BLANK which is northwest of BLANK" so you have an idea where to go.

2. Plus, like I said before it adds to the exploration. And there is a map if you've been to the place before and since there is backtracking a lot it is a helpful map.

3. Man, when did gamers get so lazy. Oh no, I have to search for stuff and walk unaided for a few minutes. Ever play old Zelda games, Dragon Warrior or the original Final Fantasy? They gave you no clues practically!roboccs

1. No. There are several times over the course of the 40 hour adventure, it doesn't. If you'd like to pop in the game and look at the entire Synopsis, be my guest.

2. No it doesn't. Walking to your next objective isn't "exploring". You're not exploring, you're trying to continue the story but can't because you have this large, ugly world you have to walk through.

What, was there a couple of chests and a couple events that could be triggered? Oh yes, there's so much to explore.

3. Not liking a certain uneeded part of the game = lazy?

Uh, yeahhh. If you say so, chief.

Walking around the map was not a necessary part of Tales. It is for the games you mentioned.

Proof? It got taken out in the next game. So yeah, there's that.

Walking around the map was not a necessary part of Tales. It is for the games you mentioned.

Proof? It got taken out in the next game. So yeah, there's that.

AlexSays

I don't see how removing something in a sequel has any bearing if it was needed in its predecessor or not.The magic bar was removed from Twilight Princess,so I suppose it wasn't needed in any of the Zelda games that came before it.

I don't see how removing something in a sequel has any bearing if it was needed in its predecessor or not.The magic bar was removed from Twilight Princess,so I suppose it wasn't needed in any of the Zelda games that came before it.

VGobbsesser

The magic bar was actually part of the gameplay.

The overworld in Tales was not. It was just a filler for in between sequences of gameplay.

Some of us just want the gameplay without the filler.

Tales 2 had the same kind of gameplay, puzzles, etc. without the map and nothing was affected.

Like if you took the map out of Symphonia, would anything change? Nope, not at all.

I like world maps but they are becoming too basic, seriously, there is only so many top down walking to location in this manner I can take. I like the idea of having no world map bt rather a big world displayed like in the first trailer with a pulled back camera. Have the world available for me to explore from a different perspective, it'll feel better. Also, the fact that the characters tranverse the world without ever talking to each other is annoying. Its 2009 and I can still have character travel to the other side of the world not saying anything to each other until in game script occurs? I want the characters to talk to each other as they travel, give us a better idea of their regular peronality.

Like if you took the map out of Symphonia, would anything change? Nope, not at all.

AlexSays

It would completely change the entire pacing of the game; that's a pretty important thing.

It would completely change the entire pacing of the game; that's a pretty important thing.VGobbsesser

Huh? Well of course if you take out the filler, the game isn't as slow. This is common knowledge. Making the game slower than it should be doesn't make it a necessary part of the game.AlexSays

If they remove the overworld,it wouldn't be as slow,but with that said,for all we know,it would be too fast for what the experience is trying to deliver.Along with that,a number of other gameplay and story elements would probably be changed,as well.And whose to say how fast or slow the game should be?As far as I'm concerned,the general pacing of the original Tales of Symphonia was fine,only facing a couple problems in balancing the difficulty and narrating.

There's no way of knowing if the original Tales of Symphonia would be better or worse without the overworld,anyways; this is all just speculation.

[QUOTE="AlexSays"]Uhh no. I knew what you had to do next in the original. The thing was if you shut the game off and came back on, you had no idea where to go because either (A) you forgot what previously happened or (B) nothing's labeled so you don't know where anything is! If people are going to ask for a world map, how about actually asking for a map? The overworld was ridiculous enough, but not knowing where certain locations were made the game tedious. .roboccs

It really doesn't sound like it roboccs.

@AlexSays

World map or as I like to call it "Map-Walk" makes RPG's great. It allows for great exploration as opposed to having follow a specific already plotted out destinations. Also, it allows for you to have to actually grow/level up to get strong enough to face the bosses as opposed to just knowing a strategy to defeat them. It also gives possibility to have secret characters placed at secret areas that are completely off from where you have to go making that exploration even more worth it. This No Map-Walk/World Map thing in New RPG's really takes away from the games. As for knowing where you were and what you have to do, RPG's now usually have some sort of log or history that get's you back up to date with the story. For example, What if Pokemon had no world map? That game would be nowhere near as good as it is with it. You can also use for example, Legend of Legaia 1 & 2. Legend of Legaia 1 was more impactful to me due to the World Map feature as I had to level up more to defeat the bosses and absorb the "all" of the Seru creatures. I had much much more to do and many more secret areas than in Legaia 2 (Which was still a really great game, but not nearly as good as Legend of Legaia 1 mainly due to them taking out World Map/Map Walk).

@AlexSays

World map or as I like to call it "Map-Walk" makes RPG's great. It allows for great exploration as opposed to having follow a specific already plotted out destinations. Also, it allows for you to have to actually grow/level up to get strong enough to face the bosses as opposed to just knowing a strategy to defeat them. It also gives possibility to have secret characters placed at secret areas that are completely off from where you have to go making that exploration even more worth it.This No Map-Walk/World Map thing in New RPG's really takes away from the games.

As for knowing where you were and what you have to do, RPG's now usually have some sort of log or history that get's you back up to date with the story.

For example, What if Pokemon had no world map? That game would be nowhere near as good as it is with it.

You can also use for example, Legend of Legaia 1 & 2. Legend of Legaia 1 was more impactful to me due to the World Map feature as I had to level up more to defeat the bosses and absorb the "all" of the Seru creatures. I had much much more to do and many more secret areas than in Legaia 2 (Which was still a really great game, but not nearly as good as Legend of Legaia 1 mainly due to them taking out World Map/Map Walk).

nini200

First off, paragraphs are our friend.

Now, about leveling up, there are tons of places you can level up. Did you have trouble leveling up in Tales 2 because there was no world map? Yeah me neither.

Matter of fact, since you know I haven't played the game or anything, training in dungeons racks up experience a lot faster than fighting off those ladybugs. There's no need, and it's actually quite easier, if you don't use the world map for training.

Oh, and there are no "secret characters" in Symphonia's world map. That's the game we're talking about, so I don't care why you think it's good in other games.

As for Pokemon, you're comparing apples and oranges. The routes in Pokemon actually have buildings, caves, etc. that are a part of the main story line. What was the point in having a world map in Tales?

What sort of gratification did you get from seeing your character traverse the land between point A and point B instead of just being there?

If the world map played a role in Legaia, that's great. It didn't in Symphonia. Me and VG already established it just made the game slower.

Besides a couple chests and skits, what would have been missed from not having a world map? Oh nothing? Yeah that's right, we saw that with Tales 2.

This is basically like some people saying for Mario Galaxy "hey I'd really like to fly to the next Galaxy myself" while some of us are like "there's no point, let's just get on with the damn game and skip those pointless parts"

If the world map played a role in Legaia, that's great. It didn't in Symphonia. Me and VG already established it just made the game slower.

AlexSays

I said it made the game slower.I never said it was a bad thing,nor did I say that it wasn't part of the game or that it didn't belong.:|

[QUOTE="AlexSays"]

If the world map played a role in Legaia, that's great. It didn't in Symphonia. Me and VG already established it just made the game slower.

VGobbsesser

I said it made the game slower.I never said it was a bad thing,nor did I say that it wasn't part of the game or that it didn't belong.:|

Yeah we came to the agreement it made the game slower.

In the part you quoted I never said you said it was a bad thing either. lol

I'm unsure as to what you're confused about.

First off, paragraphs are our friend.

Now, about leveling up, there are tons of places you can level up. Did you have trouble leveling up in Tales 2 because there was no world map? Yeah me neither.

Matter of fact, since you know I haven't played the game or anything, training in dungeons racks up experience a lot faster than fighting off those ladybugs. There's no need, and it's actually quite easier, if you don't use the world map for training.

Oh, and there are no "secret characters" in Symphonia's world map. That's the game we're talking about, so I don't care why you think it's good in other games.

As for Pokemon, you're comparing apples and oranges. The routes in Pokemon actually have buildings, caves, etc. that are a part of the main story line. What was the point in having a world map in Tales?

What sort of gratification did you get from seeing your character traverse the land between point A and point B instead of just being there?

If the world map played a role in Legaia, that's great. It didn't in Symphonia. Me and VG already established it just made the game slower.

Besides a couple chests and skits, what would have been missed from not having a world map? Oh nothing? Yeah that's right, we saw that with Tales 2.

This is basically like some people saying for Mario Galaxy "hey I'd really like to fly to the next Galaxy myself" while some of us are like "there's no point, let's just get on with the damn game and skip those pointless parts"

AlexSays

Ooh, sounding mighty macho here aren't we with your "First off"? How are you going to tell me that "paragraphs are our friend" and you didn't even use them? Lol.

Anyway, On Topic, You wrote all that just to still end up wrong. Nice. Easy way to simplify which style is better, which one always has the most hours of gameplay time without question? RPG's with or without world maps? Which style of RPG (world Map or no world map), got the highest game ratings and replay value, not to mention fun factor? RPG's with no world map just aren't as good due to the fact that there is nowhere near as much exploration involved. And as for comparing TOS to Pokemon, they are BOTH RPG's correct? So explain how that is like comparing Apples and Oranges? I can see if it was an entirely different genre of game, but they aren't so there again, you are wrong. The gratification you get from seeing your character traverse from point A to point B is for one, the gratification of fighting on the way so it actually would make sense as to how the character got stronger, the gratification of finding secret areas and side quests, the gratification of getting all the summons, etc. Seeing this quote "training in dungeons racks up experience a lot faster than fighting off those ladybugs." has let me know that debating with you on this matter isn't worth it. I, for one, don't want an RPG I can complete in less than 1 week. That to me, doesn't qualify as a good RPG. Also, which pokemon did you think was better, Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green or Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness? I see that you and I aren't going to agree on this no matter what happens so with this, I am not going to debate this matter anymore with you.

1. Easy way to simplify which style is better, which one always has the most hours of gameplay time without question? RPG's with or without world maps?

2. Which style of RPG (world Map or no world map), got the highest game ratings and replay value, not to mention fun factor? RPG's with no world map just aren't as good due to the fact that there is nowhere near as much exploration involved.

3. And as for comparing TOS to Pokemon, they are BOTH RPG's correct? So explain how that is like comparing Apples and Oranges? I can see if it was an entirely different genre of game, but they aren't so there again, you are wrong.

4. The gratification you get from seeing your character traverse from point A to point B is for one, the gratification of fighting on the way so it actually would make sense as to how the character got stronger, the gratification of finding secret areas and side quests, the gratification of getting all the summons, etc. Seeing this quote "training in dungeons racks up experience a lot faster than fighting off those ladybugs." has let me know that debating with you on this matter isn't worth it.

5. I, for one, don't want an RPG I can complete in less than 1 week. That to me, doesn't qualify as a good RPG. Also, which pokemon did you think was better, Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green or Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness? I see that you and I aren't going to agree on this no matter what happens so with this, I am not going to debate this matter anymore with you.

nini200

1. So you like world maps because they make the game longer? Which means you like the filler? That's awesome. I'd rather just play the actual game, but it's nice to see people will enjoy anything if it means the main quest is longer.

2. Reviews for RPGs aren't solely based on the status of having a world map or not, which makes your claim guesswork, meaning I could just as well say "RPGs without maps score better"

3. The aspects you're trying to compare aren't comparable. The routes in between cities are necessary in Pokemon, and not even for the "exploration" you're ranting about. The map in Symphonia could have been taken out with no harm done and it was in the sequel. Not sure why that's so difficult to grasp.

4. Your character can get stronger in other areas, and in Tales it's much easier to get stronger in dungeons. If you leveled your way through Tales in the world map, the game must have taken you an absurd amount of time.

There are no "secret areas" you're talking about in Tales. Unless you count the other side of a mountain a "secret area". We're talking about Tales so stick with that.

What did the map bring to the table in Symphonia? Absolutely nothing.

We both know this because you haven't said anything specifically against that (ie. why you bring up other games and can't stick with this one), so I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like you disagree.

5. So you don't care what's in the RPG, as long as it lasts a really long time? So you'd be perfectly content with a story of about 5 hours, as long as traveling took about 50 hours? See I'd rather the story be longer, and have less filler, but it's great you think otherwise because opinions make us unique.

1. Also, which pokemon did you think was better, Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green or Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness?

2. I see that you and I aren't going to agree on this no matter what happens so with this, I am not going to debate this matter anymore with you.nini200

1. I thought we already determined we can't use Pokemon here. Pokemon is nothing like Tales. If you played the game, you'd also know this.

2. You haven't brought anything to the table to agree with.

You've said "Oh it's nice for exploring"

That's great, in Tales there was nothing to explore.

You've said "Oh it's nice for training"

That's great, but it's much easier to train elsewhere.

What exactly are you wanting me to agree with here? That a world map would be nice if implemented correctly, but it was terrible in Tales? Or that the world map is in no way necessary but some people like it? Yeah I'd take both of those.

Well even though we all seem to disagree on the whole world map scenario, it is great to actually have a Tales game to discuss. Here's my question, do you think there is going to be a party or are they going to change the formula completely and have you travel around alone?

And Alexsays, I have a question for you: Did you like Symphonia 2 better than the original? Which one did you play first? I played the original first and just loved everything about it. I'm about 22 hours into part 2 and really like it as well. Not as much as the first but I'm glad the story is a really good one because when it comes down to it, IMO the story and characters are by far the most important part. I love the stories in tales games being all emotional and cliched.

And not to beat the world map topic like a dead horse, but Tales of the AByss did it how you explored the world map like in Symphonia, but then as you progress into the game, there is an auto pilot mode that you can automaticlly transport yourself to places you already went to.

there is no info of the NA release yetcurrentlemon

I think they'll release it here in NA. All of the last mothership Tales titles since Symphonia have been released here and I think they sold pretty well. I'm actually more concerned that the port Tales of Vesperia for PS3 won't be localized. It is going to be Tales mania for me if both are released in NA at the end of this year!