3 Things you should know about Islam

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="herpderp9000"] As the other posters have established, it was a very intelligent video that pwned the other argument, becase not one person has provided a repartee. Why are you so mad if the video is just trolling? counterpoint, then. Prove it wrong.herpderp9000

the video is far from intelligent but haters like you are gonna love the video ofcourse. im still waiting for those violent verses that contradict peaceful verses

the first verse is taken out of context.read this http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/surah9_29.asp

Chapter 9 of Quran is a favourite for haters coz they can easily take verses out of context to prove their points

[QUOTE="herpderp9000"][QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]I think you've just lost altogether.GazaAli

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="herpderp9000"] He has. sikanderahmed just lost in a PM battle with me also.herpderp9000

[QUOTE="herpderp9000"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

the video is far from intelligent but haters like you are gonna love the video ofcourse. im still waiting for those violent verses that contradict peaceful verses

sikanderahmed

the first verse is taken out of context.read this http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/surah9_29.asp

Chapter 9 of Quran is a favourite for haters coz they can easily take verses out of context to prove their points

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="herpderp9000"] (9:29) "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth ....." (45:14) "Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not hope for the Days of Allah; It is for Him to recompense (for good or evil) each people according to what they have earned" For startersBAHAHAHAHAHA

the first verse is taken out of context.read this http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/surah9_29.asp

Chapter 9 of Quran is a favourite for haters coz they can easily take verses out of context to prove their points

you forgot to quote the rest:

"Jizyah was a tax much lower than the Zakat paid by the Muslims and its payment gave non-Muslims equal citizenship rights with the Muslims besides exempting them from military service. This is the reason Jizyah has been translated as protection tax (giving full citizenship rights except becoming head of the state) and exemption tax (giving exemption from military service which was not given to the Muslims). Payment of Jizyah is a symbol of accepting to live under Islamic law; this is what it means to be subdued. This is the same as the taxes all Americans have to pay."

i dont see any problem. you live under islamic state, you pay tax

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

the first verse is taken out of context.read this http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/surah9_29.asp

Chapter 9 of Quran is a favourite for haters coz they can easily take verses out of context to prove their points

sikanderahmed

you forgot to quote the rest:

"Jizyah was a tax much lower than the Zakat paid by the Muslims and its payment gave non-Muslims equal citizenship rights with the Muslims besides exempting them from military service. This is the reason Jizyah has been translated as protection tax (giving full citizenship rights except becoming head of the state) and exemption tax (giving exemption from military service which was not given to the Muslims). Payment of Jizyah is a symbol of accepting to live under Islamic law; this is what it means to be subdued. This is the same as the taxes all Americans have to pay."

[QUOTE="herpderp9000"][QUOTE="GazaAli"] :lol:you two are literally cracking me up, lost, battles XD you seriously need to get a hobby or something.GazaAli

[QUOTE="herpderp9000"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

the video is far from intelligent but haters like you are gonna love the video ofcourse. im still waiting for those violent verses that contradict peaceful verses

the first verse is taken out of context.read this http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/surah9_29.asp

Chapter 9 of Quran is a favourite for haters coz they can easily take verses out of context to prove their points

Um, so you just quoted part of your source which advocates a theocratic protection racket on the basis of the Qur'an. And you think that's a point in YOUR favour? Bloody hell.BAHAHAHAHAHA

i dont see any problem with that. but you being an infidel will ofcourse have major problem with it. with that said i must say you failed to come up with the "contradiction"

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Um, so you just quoted part of your source which advocates a theocratic protection racket on the basis of the Qur'an. And you think that's a point in YOUR favour? Bloody hell.sikanderahmed

i dont see any problem with that. but you being an infidel will ofcourse have major problem with it. with that said i must say you failed to come up with the "contradiction"

I watched the whole video, and I think it's trying to scare people more than anything. While some Muslims are Islamists, such as Anjem Choudary in the UK, you also have many Muslims that are not, like Baron Alli, who is a member of the House of Lords and the Labour Party. I think it is important to realise that Islam, like many religions, is complementary with culture, as in, a Turkish Muslim would be culturally different from a Saudi Arabian Muslim. It's the same really with Christianity; I remember watching a programme about Christian pastors in Nigeria conducting witch-hunts (Wikipedia has an article on it here). While all of us here would think something like that no longer happened, the programme I watched did indeed have pastors being actively involved in witch-hunts, and they were quite public about it too. I would be interested in the thoughts of GameSpot's Muslims on whether or not liberal movements within Islam would be a good idea, in order for the religion and its adherents to be viewed more favourably by other people.michaelP4

how about this one? "Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Sura 48.29) And yet: "Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clearly from error" (Sura 2.256). I don't feel like copypasting all these, see for yourself. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/islam/1754-abrogated-verses-in-the-koran.htmlherpderp9000

one verse is talking about compulsionand the other about being strong or ruthless against the haters. again wheres the contradiction? they're talking about 2 seperate things. i cant be bothered answering all of those verses, you can just find answers yourself from google, if not then just pm me. also i find it quite hilarious that this stuff is posted on sikh website.....

[QUOTE="herpderp9000"] how about this one? "Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Sura 48.29) And yet: "Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clearly from error" (Sura 2.256). I don't feel like copypasting all these, see for yourself. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/islam/1754-abrogated-verses-in-the-koran.htmlsikanderahmed

one verse is talking about compulsionand the other about being strong or ruthless against the haters. again wheres the contradiction? they're talking about 2 seperate things. i cant be bothered answering all of those verses, you can just find answers yourself from google, if not then just pm me. also i find it quite hilarious that this stuff is posted on sikh website.....

So ironic that he talks about propaganda and then goes on to do just that.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Um, so you just quoted part of your source which advocates a theocratic protection racket on the basis of the Qur'an. And you think that's a point in YOUR favour? Bloody hell.BAHAHAHAHAHA

i dont see any problem with that. but you being an infidel will ofcourse have major problem with it. with that said i must say you failed to come up with the "contradiction"

jeez all you have to do is pay small tax fee when living under islamic state and you can live peacefully. hows that bad?

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

i dont see any problem with that. but you being an infidel will ofcourse have major problem with it. with that said i must say you failed to come up with the "contradiction"

sikanderahmed

jeez all you have to do is pay small tax fee when living under islamic state and you can live peacefully. hows that bad?

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="herpderp9000"] how about this one? "Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Sura 48.29) And yet: "Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clearly from error" (Sura 2.256). I don't feel like copypasting all these, see for yourself. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/islam/1754-abrogated-verses-in-the-koran.htmlBAHAHAHAHAHA

one verse is talking about compulsionand the other about being strong or ruthless against the haters. again wheres the contradiction? they're talking about 2 seperate things. i cant be bothered answering all of those verses, you can just find answers yourself from google, if not then just pm me. also i find it quite hilarious that this stuff is posted on sikh website.....

i, along with many scholars, think that death penalty for apostasy is wrong coz it contradicts Quran. you must remember that death penality is not based on Quran teaching

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Surely that amounts pretty much to abrogation?BAHAHAHAHAHA

The thing all religions have in common is that its purely made for war. ( its no freedom at all what its suppose to be ) cause there will always be misunderstandings from the other side dont matter if it is islam or christian.

I am from the netherlands were geert wilders is from and he is making big mistakes by only putting the islam to the ground ( he wants all muslims out of the country )
What i see is that religions create hate for people, and if there wouldnt be any so called god or religions there would be more peace around the world.
But then again this will never happen and humans will always be full whit hate and it will only be bigger cause there is too many difference between subculters

I hardly think the freedom of religion espoused by the one is compatible with the clerical bullying advocated by the other. You're not really free from compulsion when the Sharia penalty for Apostasy is death, are you?BAHAHAHAHAHA

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]You don't see a problem with theocratic protection rackets? This isn't about contradiction any more. This about the fact that this verse reveals Islam as not just a religion but also an imperalist ideology wherein infidels are subjugated under the Islamic state. It is utterly incompatible with any notion of Islam as a peaceful religion.BAHAHAHAHAHA

jeez all you have to do is pay small tax fee when living under islamic state and you can live peacefully. hows that bad?

first of all i dont know why you would have problem giving an extremely small amount of tax and in return you get to live peacefully under the states protection. second if you do have problem with it you can then simply leave the islamic state. its completely justifiable.i would explain why its justifiable but that would take too long as i would need to explain alot of other stuff and i simply cant be bothered doing that

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]I hardly think the freedom of religion espoused by the one is compatible with the clerical bullying advocated by the other. You're not really free from compulsion when the Sharia penalty for Apostasy is death, are you?Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

i dont see any problem with that. but you being an infidel will ofcourse have major problem with it. with that said i must say you failed to come up with the "contradiction"

sikanderahmed

jeez all you have to do is pay small tax fee when living under islamic state and you can live peacefully. hows that bad?

That is terrible, then again I couldn't care less what they did in their country.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]I hardly think the freedom of religion espoused by the one is compatible with the clerical bullying advocated by the other. You're not really free from compulsion when the Sharia penalty for Apostasy is death, are you?BAHAHAHAHAHA

All sides have their nutjobs, and to say that passages like that don't exist in other religion's books isn't accurate. Regardless this doesn't matter.

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

jeez all you have to do is pay small tax fee when living under islamic state and you can live peacefully. hows that bad?

sikanderahmed

first of all i dont know why you would have problem giving an extremely small amount of tax and in return you get to live peacefully under the states protection. second if you do have problem with it you can then simply leave the islamic state. its completely justifiable.i would explain why its justifiable but that would take too long as i would need to explain alot of other stuff and i simply cant be bothered doing that

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Um, and if I have a problem with that and am then prevented with a choice between Islam and execution? You think that's justifiable, do you?BAHAHAHAHAHA

first of all i dont know why you would have problem giving an extremely small amount of tax and in return you get to live peacefully under the states protection. second if you do have problem with it you can then simply leave the islamic state. its completely justifiable.i would explain why its justifiable but that would take too long as i would need to explain alot of other stuff and i simply cant be bothered doing that

You forget the crusades and the spanish inquisition.

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

jeez all you have to do is pay small tax fee when living under islamic state and you can live peacefully. hows that bad?

first of all i dont know why you would have problem giving an extremely small amount of tax and in return you get to live peacefully under the states protection. second if you do have problem with it you can then simply leave the islamic state. its completely justifiable.i would explain why its justifiable but that would take too long as i would need to explain alot of other stuff and i simply cant be bothered doing that

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] You realize there are over a billion muslims in the world, right? You realize there are American muslims? British muslims? What you're describing is not the religion of muslims but the law of middle-east dictatorships. Why are we drumming up a muslim witch-hunt? What's the purpose? Former_Slacker

All sides have their nutjobs, and to say that passages like that don't exist in other religion's books isn't accurate. Regardless this doesn't matter.

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

first of all i dont know why you would have problem giving an extremely small amount of tax and in return you get to live peacefully under the states protection. second if you do have problem with it you can then simply leave the islamic state. its completely justifiable.i would explain why its justifiable but that would take too long as i would need to explain alot of other stuff and i simply cant be bothered doing that

Former_Slacker

You forget the crusades and the spanish inquisition.

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

first of all i dont know why you would have problem giving an extremely small amount of tax and in return you get to live peacefully under the states protection. second if you do have problem with it you can then simply leave the islamic state. its completely justifiable.i would explain why its justifiable but that would take too long as i would need to explain alot of other stuff and i simply cant be bothered doing that

You forget the crusades and the spanish inquisition.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]You don't see a problem with theocratic protection rackets? This isn't about contradiction any more. This about the fact that this verse reveals Islam as not just a religion but also an imperalist ideology wherein infidels are subjugated under the Islamic state. It is utterly incompatible with any notion of Islam as a peaceful religion.BAHAHAHAHAHA

jeez all you have to do is pay small tax fee when living under islamic state and you can live peacefully. hows that bad?

Thanks to you, I haven't had to interject myself in this thread one time. Almost all of your posts have been spot on, and I appreciate that. You're not afraid to tell it like it is.

The authoritarian nature of Islam when implemented as a form of government is wholly contrary to liberty and extremely dangerous.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Um, and if I have a problem with that and am then prevented with a choice between Islam and execution? You think that's justifiable, do you?BAHAHAHAHAHA

first of all i dont know why you would have problem giving an extremely small amount of tax and in return you get to live peacefully under the states protection. second if you do have problem with it you can then simply leave the islamic state. its completely justifiable.i would explain why its justifiable but that would take too long as i would need to explain alot of other stuff and i simply cant be bothered doing that

ofcourse the final goal is that all the world should be islamic and which muslim wouldnt support that? would a christian not like the whole world to be under christian rule? or same with jew and anyone else. this is Gods world and only Gods rule should be estabilished here. if you have a problem paying tax to the state you are living under then thats your problem and it would be YOU who would be denying a peaceful solution

[QUOTE="Former_Slacker"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Oh, but we both know it's not that simple - Islam is fundamentally an imperialist ideology, whose final goal is that all the world be Islamic. In other words, if Islam had its way, there would be no option to leave for a non-Islamic state. Your first point is disingenuous, especially taking into account that I may not wish to fund the theocratic power structure of a religion to which I object. The fact still remains that if I don't want to convert to Islam, and I don't want to pay a tithe to Islamists, then in the Qur'an's ideal world, I am executed. Morally, this is inexcusible.mattbbpl

You forget the crusades and the spanish inquisition.

I wasn't saying it should be condoned, I'm saying that everyone is guilty of it.

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

first of all i dont know why you would have problem giving an extremely small amount of tax and in return you get to live peacefully under the states protection. second if you do have problem with it you can then simply leave the islamic state. its completely justifiable.i would explain why its justifiable but that would take too long as i would need to explain alot of other stuff and i simply cant be bothered doing that

sikanderahmed

ofcourse the final goal is that all the world should be islamic and which muslim wouldnt support that? would a christian not like the whole world to be under christian rule? or same with jew and anyone else. this is Gods world and only Gods rule should be estabilished here. if you have a problem paying tax to the state you are living under then thats your problem and it would be YOU who would be denying a peaceful solution

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="Former_Slacker"]

You forget the crusades and the spanish inquisition.

Former_Slacker

I wasn't saying it should be condoned, I'm saying that everyone is guilty of it.

Okay, since I have a lot of free time, I'll be the first Muslim to address the main points made in the video:

1. "It's explained in the Qur'an that if you have two passages that contradict each other, the written later supercedes the one written earlier"

Here is that verse that is related to the above.

"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten,but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou notthat Allah hath power over all things?" [Al-Qur'an 2:106]

This is not abrogation; it's substitution. A good example is the prohibition of alcohol. There is a verse that says that Allah doesn't accept the prayer of a drunk person, and there's another, seemingly contradictory verse that says alcohol is forbidden. However, it is evident in the ahadith that alcohol was banned in stages, so this matter is closely related to the verse. That is, the revelation was not abrogated, rather it was substituted by something better.

2. "Striving to institute worldwide Sharia law is a religious duty"

No, it's not. It is a Muslims duty to spread Islam, that's all. It's called dawah. And dawah literally means "invitation to the religion", not "forced conversion". Muslims even do dawah among other Muslims to increase their faith.

3. "Muslims are allowed to decieve non-Muslims through taqiyyah if it helps Islam"

This point itself is a lie. Lying is among the list of major sins. In fact, lying is such a terrible sin that it is even forbidden to lie about someone as a joke. Muslims can only lie if:

• Lying might prevent or calm down a conflict between two people. However, it can only be a small lie. And if there's a better way to solve said conflict, lying is inexcusable.

• Lying might please one's spouse. Again, this should only be a harmless lie. If, for example, your spouse is worried about you, you must tell him or her that you're fine, regardless of whether you really are in a bad situation.

• Lying might bring reconciliation amongst people in war.

Also, I was surprised by the video's incorrect use of the word taqiyyah. Taqiyyah is actually the concealing of one's faith under threat, compulsion or persecution.

It is quite ironic how the video starts out... "For every opinion or belief someone may hold there will be another party who just as strongly opppose that idea. Both sides usually claim to sit with the best arguments, the real facts, and the correct world view and (ironically) both sides regard the other as being indoctrinated, blind to the obvious and outright stupid."

Isn't this exactly what this video is doing?

1. The Qur'an, despite what this guy and many Muslims might have you believe, is actually written by many different authors at different times. There is even some scholars who think that many of the stories are folklore that predate the formation of Islam itself, and were integrated into the world-view by Muhammed, much like any other religious creator who wishes to make their own version of the local moral teachings and history.

- The Bible, as many Christians would have us believe, is a book of law handed down by God, commanding us to do everything within its pages, and was passed down to Jesus' disciples through him via oral teachings.

- Violent passages abrogating peaceful ones? Care to give us some examples? No? Okay then. Why can't some Muslims interpret the Qur'an like some Christians interpret the Bible? Why can't the Qur'an not be a literal text, and actually contain some value as a parabolic text? They will burn in fiery torment if they do not obey? Care to cite that as well?

2. Any citations in this video? Because this is absurd. Religion and religious ideology are different things? Is this guy smoking something good? Because I want some. There is no separation between religious and political... well, we definitely don't have Christians trying to make the United States "one nation under God" and institute the teaching of creationism as an "alternative explanation" to evolution in science cIasses. ALL religions, have rules built into their foundations for governing a society. The Pentateuch is the Jewish means of governing. Jesus' teachings are the Christian interpretation of the Jewish law.

- Democracy and free speech are abominations. Citation please. "Creeping Shari'a," any examples or sources for these claims? There is something wrong with a religious community settling certain things within themselves? At least in the sense of using their beliefs to guide them in decision making? Since this video does not cite anything to actually analyze this point, speculation regarding this is futile.

- Shari'a examples; okay, any examples of this happening in the United States, or the UK? No? The way this video is presenting Shari'a, it makes me think all the person who wrote the script ever looked at was the Wahabbi interpretation of Shari'a. Citation needed, citation needed, citation needed...

3. Islamic charity organization deceiving Westerners. Now is this because of Islam, or because human beings are corruptible and ultimately selfish beings that only wish to help themselves? I personally think Occam's Razor would posit the latter to the former.

- "Do the research yourself." :lol: My ****ing lord! Is this guy serious? Anyone who seriously considers what this video is saying is true, really needs to check themselves, because there has yet to be a single citation of anything claimed in this video, and when someone tells you the viewer to "do the research yourself" they know that either you will and disregard the video, or are too lazy and will just accept it as fact regardless.

- Islam as a religion of peace. What is this "early" and "later" in the Qur'an business? From what I've learned, the order of the passages in the Qur'an are not based on the date of writing, but based on the length of the text itself. The shorter texts coming before the longer ones (or vice versa, I'm not sure).

--

So, if you wish to inform me about these "truths" then why haven't you given me any citations for your claims? If I am to believe this abhorrent propaganda, which I would consider the worst kind of propaganda (that is, one that attacks a religion because they disagree with it), then what am I supposed to do... put faith in your claims and just accept them as true, as I would a religion? This video is absolute garbage, and I am surprised I had the patience to go through it all. Please in the future, to anyone out there who wishes to learn about a religion the right way, don't listen to crap on a Youtube video. Go to a library, check out some scholarly texts and sit down and read for a few hours. that'll be what surprises you.

Also, most, if not all of what this video brings up, can be placed on the falibility of human nature, and our inherent selfishness. It isn't necessarily a direct by-product of Islam itself.

Oh, and here's another contradiction: 5:72 'They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.' 5:69 'Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.' Do all Christians go to hell, Muslims?BAHAHAHAHAHA

the first verse makes it clear that the people who say God is the messiah, son of mary are DISBELIEVING in Allah (e.g. todays christians). you need to understand the islamicview of jesus which is that jesus was just a prophet like moses and all others so yes the true followers of jesus who knew jesus was simply a prophet will go to heaven while people who claim that jesus is son of God or THE God in human form are disbelieving and commiting SHIRK (the worst sin in islam) and are unfortunatley on their way to hell. again no contradiction sighted, fission mailed.

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

first of all i dont know why you would have problem giving an extremely small amount of tax and in return you get to live peacefully under the states protection. second if you do have problem with it you can then simply leave the islamic state. its completely justifiable.i would explain why its justifiable but that would take too long as i would need to explain alot of other stuff and i simply cant be bothered doing that

sikanderahmed

ofcourse the final goal is that all the world should be islamic and which muslim wouldnt support that? would a christian not like the whole world to be under christian rule? or same with jew and anyone else. this is Gods world and only Gods rule should be estabilished here. if you have a problem paying tax to the state you are living under then thats your problem and it would be YOU who would be denying a peaceful solution

:|

1. The Qur'an, despite what this guy and many Muslims might have you believe, is actually written by many different authors at different times. There is even some scholars who think that many of the stories are folklore that predate the formation of Islam itself, and were integrated into the world-view by Muhammed, much like any other religious creator who wishes to make their own version of the local moral teachings and history.

foxhound_fox

gotta call BS on that one mate. i would suggest you do more research on islam and fully understand islam

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Oh, but we both know it's not that simple - Islam is fundamentally an imperialist ideology, whose final goal is that all the world be Islamic. In other words, if Islam had its way, there would be no option to leave for a non-Islamic state. Your first point is disingenuous, especially taking into account that I may not wish to fund the theocratic power structure of a religion to which I object. The fact still remains that if I don't want to convert to Islam, and I don't want to pay a tithe to Islamists, then in the Qur'an's ideal world, I am executed. Morally, this is inexcusible.BAHAHAHAHAHA

ofcourse the final goal is that all the world should be islamic and which muslim wouldnt support that? would a christian not like the whole world to be under christian rule? or same with jew and anyone else. this is Gods world and only Gods rule should be estabilished here. if you have a problem paying tax to the state you are living under then thats your problem and it would be YOU who would be denying a peaceful solution

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Oh, but we both know it's not that simple - Islam is fundamentally an imperialist ideology, whose final goal is that all the world be Islamic. In other words, if Islam had its way, there would be no option to leave for a non-Islamic state. Your first point is disingenuous, especially taking into account that I may not wish to fund the theocratic power structure of a religion to which I object. The fact still remains that if I don't want to convert to Islam, and I don't want to pay a tithe to Islamists, then in the Qur'an's ideal world, I am executed. Morally, this is inexcusible.Former_Slacker

ofcourse the final goal is that all the world should be islamic and which muslim wouldnt support that? would a christian not like the whole world to be under christian rule? or same with jew and anyone else. this is Gods world and only Gods rule should be estabilished here. if you have a problem paying tax to the state you are living under then thats your problem and it would be YOU who would be denying a peaceful solution

:|

i knowyouwill have problem with this but thats the way it is.

gotta call BS on that one mate. i would suggest you do more research on islam and fully understand islam

sikanderahmed