9/11 - We had it coming

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

America is the most recent iron fist on the block in living memory, the rest are just history. That and there are various ways to run an Empire, America's approach just seems to attract the most hate.

topsemag55

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make. You can list countries that like America, therefore other countries cannot have any reason to hate them?

[QUOTE="topsemag55"][QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

America is the most recent iron fist on the block in living memory, the rest are just history. That and there are various ways to run an Empire, America's approach just seems to attract the most hate.

AnnoyedDragon

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make. You can list countries that like America, therefore other countries cannot have any reason to hate them?

We don't usually run the countries.....we leave them to their own leaders once the country is stable. Unlike how other countries do it....LJS9502_basic

We administer these countries, so to speak, and provide protection, and they don't have a problem being under our wing. If we were so terrible, they would be clamoring to get away from our sphere of influence, but they are not.topsemag55

I think you have to look at media outside your own country to get any real picture, because all you are going to get from your own government and media is propaganda. The line that the US is sending their military around the world to help people, to provide stability and protection, is actually quite laughable. My general impression of the US is they go around the world destabilizing countries with valuable resources, and then putting in favourable dictators to keep the population under control; and ensure extraction.

I'm sure some quite terrifying things are going to come out about the US, but probably not in our lifetimes. Stuff like that usually comes out 50 years later, when most of the people involved at the time are dead. You only have to turn on the history channel to see the monstrosities that governments got up to 50 years ago, and they are undoubtedly happening right now, we just won't hear about it until there is no one to punish.

Until then, we are only seeing snippets come through the cracks, and those snippets are piles of dead civilians and deformed babies.

I think you have to look at media outside your own country to get any real picture, because all you are going to get from your own government and media is propaganda. The line that the US is sending their military around the world to help people, to provide stability and protection, is actually quite laughable. My general impression of the US is they go around the world destabilizing countries with valuable resources, and then putting in favourable dictators to keep the population under control; and ensure extraction.

I'm sure some quite terrifying things are going to come out about the US, but probably not in our lifetimes. Stuff like that usually comes out 50 years later, when most of the people alive at the time are dead. You only have to turn on the history channel to see the monstrosities that governments got up to 50 years ago, and they are undoubtedly happening right now, we just won't hear about it until there is no one to punish.

Until then, we are only seeing snippets come through the cracks, and those snippets are piles of dead civilians and deformed babies.

AnnoyedDragon

I think you have to look at media outside your own country to get any real picture, because all you are going to get from your own government and media is propaganda. The line that the US is sending their military around the world to help people, to provide stability and protection, is actually quite laughable. My general impression of the US is they go around the world destabilizing countries with valuable resources, and then putting in favourable dictators to keep the population under control; and ensure extraction.

I'm sure some quite terrifying things are going to come out about the US, but probably not in our lifetimes. Stuff like that usually comes out 50 years later, when most of the people involved at the time are dead. You only have to turn on the history channel to see the monstrosities that governments got up to 50 years ago, and they are undoubtedly happening right now, we just won't hear about it until there is no one to punish.

Until then, we are only seeing snippets come through the cracks, and those snippets are piles of dead civilians and deformed babies.

AnnoyedDragon

The people who died on 9/11 didn't have it coming. Maybe some world leaders and even then. The people died on that day didn't deserve to die and i feel sorry for them and their families.

Saying you had it coming shows that you have no clue how bad this event actually was.

I'm from europe and seeing the images on the news was for me shocking. The picture of the falling man still haunts me to this day.

did we have a retaliatory strike against us coming? Maybe...

but 9/11? Stop trying to justify it, that was a barbaric attack targeted at civilians to cause panic, terror, and worse.

mrbojangles25

Recognizing cause and effect isn't justifying it. For decades we're been poking the proverbial wasp's nest in the Middle East. It was only a matter of time before we got stung.

Look at Iraq. We aren't occupying, and as soon as their government feels they can handle their defense, we will be out. Besides, the Kurdish population is begging for our troops to stay - they want our protection (note protection =/= occupation).topsemag55

I honestly don't believe a word the US has to say about their own military operations. As if they would tell their own civilians if they had any ulterior motives.

I'm not in the US, so I don't get US media. So excuse me if I don't sound so positive about the situation, when my own country isn't afraid to report on US ****ups. Particularly when it comes to friendly fire.

I'd hate to see what is going to come out after a couple of decades over all this.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"]If their real beef is with meddling, I have to wonder why they didn't direct more of their anger toward the British, French, or Italians who, unlike the US, were legit imperial powers and actually had colonies and spheres of influence in the Islamic world. Or toward the Turks, who ruled over most of the region for like 400 years. LJS9502_basic

America is the most recent iron fist on the block in living memory, the rest are just history. That and there are various ways to run an Empire, America's approach just seems to attract the most hate.

You mean like when we overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran, Mohammed Mosaddegh?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

America is the most recent iron fist on the block in living memory, the rest are just history. That and there are various ways to run an Empire, America's approach just seems to attract the most hate.

worlock77

You mean like when we overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran, Mohammed Mosaddegh?

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]Look at Iraq. We aren't occupying, and as soon as their government feels they can handle their defense, we will be out. Besides, the Kurdish population is begging for our troops to stay - they want our protection (note protection =/= occupation).AnnoyedDragon

I honestly don't believe a word the US has to say about their own military operations. As if they would tell their own civilians if they had any ulterior motives.

I'm not in the US, so I don't get US media. So excuse me if I don't sound so positive about the situation, when my own country isn't afraid to report on US ****ups. Particularly when it comes to friendly fire.

I'd hate to see what is going to come out after a couple of decades over all this.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

America is the most recent iron fist on the block in living memory, the rest are just history. That and there are various ways to run an Empire, America's approach just seems to attract the most hate.

worlock77

You mean like when we overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran, Mohammed Mosaddegh?

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

did we have a retaliatory strike against us coming? Maybe...

but 9/11? Stop trying to justify it, that was a barbaric attack targeted at civilians to cause panic, terror, and worse.

worlock77

Recognizing cause and effect isn't justifying it. For decades we're been poking the proverbial wasp's nest in the Middle East. It was only a matter of time before we got stung.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]Look at Iraq. We aren't occupying, and as soon as their government feels they can handle their defense, we will be out. Besides, the Kurdish population is begging for our troops to stay - they want our protection (note protection =/= occupation).topsemag55

I honestly don't believe a word the US has to say about their own military operations. As if they would tell their own civilians if they had any ulterior motives.

I'm not in the US, so I don't get US media. So excuse me if I don't sound so positive about the situation, when my own country isn't afraid to report on US ****ups. Particularly when it comes to friendly fire.

I'd hate to see what is going to come out after a couple of decades over all this.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] We don't usually run the countries.....we leave them to their own leaders once the country is stable. Unlike how other countries do it....LJS9502_basic

You mean like when we overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran, Mohammed Mosaddegh?

Fact, Mossaddegh was democratically elected by the people of Iran. The thing is, however, he nationalized Iran's oil industry. In 1953 the United States and Great Britian openly spear-headed an operation which saw the overthrowal of Mossaddegh and the installation of the tyrannical, but western friendly, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. Eventually Pahlavi was in turn overthrown by the Iranian people during the revolution of 1979.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

You mean like when we overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran, Mohammed Mosaddegh?

worlock77

Fact, Mossaddegh was democratically elected by the people of Iran. The thing is, however, he nationalized Iran's oil industry. In 1953 the United States and Great Britian openly spear-headed an operation which saw the overthrowal of Mossaddegh and the installation of the tyrannical, but western friendly, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. Eventually Pahlavi was in turn overthrown by the Iranian people during the revolution of 1979.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Do we run Iran? Is it under our government? If not....I'm not sure what relevance that has to the discussion.LJS9502_basic

Fact, Mossaddegh was democratically elected by the people of Iran. The thing is, however, he nationalized Iran's oil industry. In 1953 the United States and Great Britian openly spear-headed an operation which saw the overthrowal of Mossaddegh and the installation of the tyrannical, but western friendly, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. Eventually Pahlavi was in turn overthrown by the Iranian people during the revolution of 1979.

It has every goddamn thing to do with the conversation. The thread is about 9/11 being a blowback from the US's aggressive policies in the Middle East.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Fact, Mossaddegh was democratically elected by the people of Iran. The thing is, however, he nationalized Iran's oil industry. In 1953 the United States and Great Britian openly spear-headed an operation which saw the overthrowal of Mossaddegh and the installation of the tyrannical, but western friendly, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. Eventually Pahlavi was in turn overthrown by the Iranian people during the revolution of 1979.

worlock77

It has every goddamn thing to do with the conversation. The thread is about 9/11 being a blowback from the US's aggressive policies in the Middle East.

we had it coming that OUR own government did it?

1: i think over 44% (last time i checked) of Americans believe it was inside job

2: rumsfeld reported 2 trillion could NOT be tracked and a investigation was going on. THE very next day a (plane) hits the very area where that information is stored in the Pentagon? umm shocking

3: MANY pilots who has been flying for years has tried to hit the pentagon on a sim yet they failed.

4: wheres the debris for the plane that hit the pen?

5: why is the hole SO smaller then a jumbo jet?

6: less the 8hrs the towers fallan. the area was being cleaned up up(thats fine) but all the Derbies was taken to be destroyed which would prevent any investigation find out that anything besides (jet fuel) made the building fall.

7: Whats up with building 7?

8: there has been test done with jet fuel proving that jet fuel dose not get even close to melting steal.

9: there as been people testifying that dick cheney told the air force to stand down multiple times to not shoot down the airplanes.

sounds little fishy to me...

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]Look at Iraq. We aren't occupying, and as soon as their government feels they can handle their defense, we will be out. Besides, the Kurdish population is begging for our troops to stay - they want our protection (note protection =/= occupation).AnnoyedDragon

I honestly don't believe a word the US has to say about their own military operations. As if they would tell their own civilians if they had any ulterior motives.

I'm not in the US, so I don't get US media. So excuse me if I don't sound so positive about the situation, when my own country isn't afraid to report on US ****ups. Particularly when it comes to friendly fire.

I'd hate to see what is going to come out after a couple of decades over all this.

Better to report on US mess ups then their own. That's a good state media. Do they give out kool-aid with that news?

sonicare

we had it coming that OUR own government did it?

1: i think over 44% (last time i checked) of Americans believe it was inside job

2: rumsfeld reported 2 trillion could NOT be tracked and a investigation was going on. THE very next day a (plane) hits the very area where that information is stored in the Pentagon? umm shocking

3: MANY pilots who has been flying for years has tried to hit the pentagon on a sim yet they failed.

4: wheres the debris for the plane that hit the pen?

5: why is the hole SO smaller then a jumbo jet?

6: less the 8hrs the towers fallan. the area was being cleaned up up(thats fine) but all the Derbies was taken to be destroyed which would prevent any investigation find out that anything besides (jet fuel) made the building fall.

7: Whats up with building 7?

8: there has been test done with jet fuel proving that jet fuel dose not get even close to melting steal.

9: there as been people testifying that dick cheney told the air force to stand down multiple times to not shoot down the airplanes.

sounds little fishy to me...

k2theswiss

Please explain why #8 is relevant, pl0x.

Please explain why #8 is relevant, pl0x.

coolbeans90

Because apparently a full 757 smashing into a building doesn't cause a structure to be weakened at all...

There was also debris from the plane at the Pentagon and video showing the plane hitting it. It was all gathered for the investigation after. A missile would have caused significantly more damage due to the high explosives it carried, especially a cruise missile like people think it is. 44% of the people in this country don't believe it was an inside job, it's way more like 1-2% if that. Some bullcrap web statistic doesn't mean anything.

idk how to post pictures but image team america world police in this comment

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Please explain why #8 is relevant, pl0x.

Wasdie

Because apparently a full 757 smashing into a building doesn't cause a structure to be weakened at all...

There was also debris from the plane at the Pentagon and video showing the plane hitting it. It was all gathered for the investigation after. A missile would have caused significantly more damage due to the high explosives it carried, especially a cruise missile like people think it is. 44% of the people in this country don't believe it was an inside job, it's way more like 1-2% if that. Some bullcrap web statistic doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, and apparently steel retains an equal amount of strength regardless of temperature until melting.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Please explain why #8 is relevant, pl0x.

Wasdie

Because apparently a full 757 smashing into a building doesn't cause a structure to be weakened at all...

There was also debris from the plane at the Pentagon and video showing the plane hitting it. It was all gathered for the investigation after. A missile would have caused significantly more damage due to the high explosives it carried, especially a cruise missile like people think it is. 44% of the people in this country don't believe it was an inside job, it's way more like 1-2% if that. Some bullcrap web statistic doesn't mean anything.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Please explain why #8 is relevant, pl0x.

coolbeans90

Because apparently a full 757 smashing into a building doesn't cause a structure to be weakened at all...

There was also debris from the plane at the Pentagon and video showing the plane hitting it. It was all gathered for the investigation after. A missile would have caused significantly more damage due to the high explosives it carried, especially a cruise missile like people think it is. 44% of the people in this country don't believe it was an inside job, it's way more like 1-2% if that. Some bullcrap web statistic doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, and apparently steel retains an equal amount of strength regardless of temperature until melting.

Buildings not built to withstand earthquakes and also apparently survive a massive tremor and debris falling on it all day...

It had to be explosives.

I can see that Americans still live by the Divine Destinyangry_roman1011

What is Divine Destiny? Is it like Jihad?

[QUOTE="angry_roman1011"]I can see that Americans still live by the Divine Destinycoolbeans90

What is Divine Destiny? Is it like Jihad?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="angry_roman1011"]I can see that Americans still live by the Divine Destinyangry_roman1011

What is Divine Destiny? Is it like Jihad?

Never heard of it.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="angry_roman1011"]I can see that Americans still live by the Divine Destinyangry_roman1011

What is Divine Destiny? Is it like Jihad?

[QUOTE="angry_roman1011"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

What is Divine Destiny? Is it like Jihad?

coolbeans90

Never heard of it.

I'm with you on this one. The only "Divine Destiny" I can find on Google is something Glenn Beck said.

Are you sure you don't mean "Manifest Destiny"?

And if this is what non-US history classes teach about the US, no wonder why there is so much misinformation and blatent hate towards the USA.

I can see that Americans still live by the Divine Destinyangry_roman1011

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="angry_roman1011"] Their belief since the turn of the 20th Century that the US has the divine duty to help troubled countries. It's in our history classWasdie

Never heard of it.

I'm with you on this one. The only "Divine Destiny" I can find on Google is something Glenn Beck said.

Are you sure you don't mean "Manifest Destiny"?

And if this is what non-US history classes teach about the US, no wonder why there is so much misinformation and blatent hate towards the USA.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Never heard of it.

angry_roman1011

I'm with you on this one. The only "Divine Destiny" I can find on Google is something Glenn Beck said.

Are you sure you don't mean "Manifest Destiny"?

And if this is what non-US history classes teach about the US, no wonder why there is so much misinformation and blatent hate towards the USA.

That has absolutly nothing to do with modern day beliefs of the average American.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Never heard of it.

angry_roman1011

I'm with you on this one. The only "Divine Destiny" I can find on Google is something Glenn Beck said.

Are you sure you don't mean "Manifest Destiny"?

And if this is what non-US history classes teach about the US, no wonder why there is so much misinformation and blatent hate towards the USA.

[QUOTE="angry_roman1011"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I'm with you on this one. The only "Divine Destiny" I can find on Google is something Glenn Beck said.

Are you sure you don't mean "Manifest Destiny"?

And if this is what non-US history classes teach about the US, no wonder why there is so much misinformation and blatent hate towards the USA.

LJS9502_basic

I would bet money that this thread came about because of Ron Paul.

Ok, the US had it coming. They're a bunch of imperialists who only care about their own interests at the expense of others. They deserve all the sh*t they get. Since that's the case, I say the US should start living up to that reputation and just nuke the Islamic fundies off the map. Nothing to hide anymore. Just go all out and get it over with. Nukes too extreme? Nothing that a nice, clean carpet bombing can't fix.

Ok, the US had it coming. They're a bunch of imperialists who only care about their own interests at the expense of others. They deserve all the sh*t they get. Since that's the case, I say the US should start living up to that reputation and just nuke the Islamic fundies off the map. Nothing to hide anymore. Just go all out and get it over with. Nukes too extreme? Nothing that a nice, clean carpet bombing can't fix.

Blaze787

What about the 90% of non violent, non crazy ( relatively) islamic people.

Nobody has that coming, nobody has our response to it coming, the entire concept of, "having it coming" is as absurd and simplistic as it is juvenile and cruel.

I would bet money that this thread came about because of Ron Paul.

Serraph105

[QUOTE="Blaze787"]

Ok, the US had it coming. They're a bunch of imperialists who only care about their own interests at the expense of others. They deserve all the sh*t they get. Since that's the case, I say the US should start living up to that reputation and just nuke the Islamic fundies off the map. Nothing to hide anymore. Just go all out and get it over with. Nukes too extreme? Nothing that a nice, clean carpet bombing can't fix.

deangallop

What about the 90% of non violent, non crazy ( relatively) islamic people.

It's a lot more than 10% that would like to see the imposition of a global sharia.

[QUOTE="deangallop"]

[QUOTE="Blaze787"]

Ok, the US had it coming. They're a bunch of imperialists who only care about their own interests at the expense of others. They deserve all the sh*t they get. Since that's the case, I say the US should start living up to that reputation and just nuke the Islamic fundies off the map. Nothing to hide anymore. Just go all out and get it over with. Nukes too extreme? Nothing that a nice, clean carpet bombing can't fix.

What about the 90% of non violent, non crazy ( relatively) islamic people.

It's a lot more than 10% that would like to see the imposition of a global sharia.

I don't agree with the hate the U.S gets overseas, especially considering the amount of money and effort they put into helping other countries just to be (#$# on right after. I don't agree with the fact that the "U.S had it coming" in the regard that the attack was completely unjustified and targeted at the wrong people. All it accomplished was public outrage and a 10 year war along with hundreds of thousands of deaths in the middle east.

Better to report on US mess ups then their own. That's a good state media. Do they give out kool-aid with that news?

sonicare

You're assuming I trust what a government owned news organisation has to say about their owners ;)

Outside of your country is usually the best place to look for the real news on your country. I just find it funny that there are actually people in here that believe their government, when they say they have to go to war with everyone to spread *cough* peace and democracy.

If they truly think that way, is it any wonder they're surprised when there are people who want to see American blood?

You can say the government and policy makers had it coming, but I dont think you can ever state that innocent civilians "had it coming". Almost all of the people killed that day were people that were just trying to live their lives. Many of them probably disagreed with a lot of US foreign policy. Many of them were foreign born or foreigners who just happened to be working there that day.

sonicare

Agreed. Even though the US loves to police the world, the people that died that day were innocent civilians, killed by cowards who got lucky.

did we have a retaliatory strike against us coming? Maybe...

but 9/11? Stop trying to justify it, that was a barbaric attack targeted at civilians to cause panic, terror, and worse.

mrbojangles25

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

did we have a retaliatory strike against us coming? Maybe...

but 9/11? Stop trying to justify it, that was a barbaric attack targeted at civilians to cause panic, terror, and worse.

th3warr1or

No one in this thread is attempting to justify it. But the US is never going to prevent the likes of 9/11, so long as they continue to fuel terrorism; by the death and destruction they cause while trying to police the world.