9/11 - We had it coming

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

did we have a retaliatory strike against us coming? Maybe...

but 9/11? Stop trying to justify it, that was a barbaric attack targeted at civilians to cause panic, terror, and worse.

AnnoyedDragon

No one in this thread is attempting to justify it. But the US is never going to prevent the likes of 9/11, so long as they continue to fuel terrorism; by the death and destruction they cause while trying to police the world.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"] This. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to justify something that should never have happened. th3warr1or

No one in this thread is attempting to justify it. But the US is never going to prevent the likes of 9/11, so long as they continue to fuel terrorism; by the death and destruction they cause while trying to police the world.

Someone will always have a reason to terrorize the US. Terrorists don't use logic. They don't need a reason to do anything. th3warr1or

Except of course the US has done things to attract the hate.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"] This. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to justify something that should never have happened. th3warr1or

No one in this thread is attempting to justify it. But the US is never going to prevent the likes of 9/11, so long as they continue to fuel terrorism; by the death and destruction they cause while trying to police the world.

The US is often a scapegoat for people trying to get into power. If something bad happens in the country, it's easy to point your fingers at very influential people. We helped them fight off the Soviet Union in the 80s, so we had influence in the region. Since that war, the Taliban has been waging a constant war on the country to basically control it all. One of the scapegoats they use to rally supporters is blame on western countries.

Terrorist organizations then use this to their advantage to get funding from the massive amount of opium exportation that Afghanistan has yearly (that is their biggest crop and only real resource. They don't even have oil). They use that money to stage terrorist attacks against all western powers.

It's all scapegoats. If it's not the US they are pissed at it's Europe. Just like Hitler did with the Jews. You pick an influential group of people and blame them for your problems. You get enough misinformation and propoganda to the people (Afghanistan really doesn't have an education system thanks to the Taliban), and people are quick to believe this.

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"] Someone will always have a reason to terrorize the US. Terrorists don't use logic. They don't need a reason to do anything. AnnoyedDragon

Except of course the US has done things to attract the hate.

So have all western powers, not just the US.

Look at what the UK and France just did in Lybia. They helped the rebels fight off a dictator just like the US helped the Afghanistan people fight off the Soviet Union. Look who became their enemy.

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"][QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

No one in this thread is attempting to justify it. But the US is never going to prevent the likes of 9/11, so long as they continue to fuel terrorism; by the death and destruction they cause while trying to police the world.

Wasdie

The US is often a scapegoat for people trying to get into power. If something bad happens in the country, it's easy to point your fingers at very influential people. We helped them fight off the Soviet Union in the 80s, so we had influence in the region. Since that war, the Taliban has been waging a constant war on the country to basically control it all. One of the scapegoats they use to rally supporters is blame on western countries.

Terrorist organizations then use this to their advantage to get funding from the massive amount of opium exportation that Afghanistan has yearly (that is their biggest crop and only real resource. They don't even have oil). They use that money to stage terrorist attacks against all western powers.

It's all scapegoats. If it's not the US they are pissed at it's Europe. Just like Hitler did with the Jews. You pick an influential group of people and blame them for your problems. You get enough misinformation and propoganda to the people (Afghanistan really doesn't have an education system thanks to the Taliban), and people are quick to believe this.

So have all western powers, not just the US.

Look at what the UK and France just did in Lybia. They helped the rebels fight off a dictator just like the US helped the Afghanistan people fight off the Soviet Union. Look who became their enemy.

Wasdie

Again, I am not arguing in defence of my country. I recognise that my government gets up to some messed up stuff, my problem is the Americans that refuse to recognise that the US is at any fault. Believing they just go around the world spreading "peace" and "democracy", and that these terrorists have no real reason to hate the US.

I mean, take these opium fields you just described. What did the US do when they got access to some of the fields? Destroy them? Nah, they make too much money, they provided security to protect the opium fields.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

So have all western powers, not just the US.

Look at what the UK and France just did in Lybia. They helped the rebels fight off a dictator just like the US helped the Afghanistan people fight off the Soviet Union. Look who became their enemy.

AnnoyedDragon

Again, I am not arguing in defence of my country. I recognise that my government gets up to some messed up stuff, my problem is the Americans that refuse to recognise that the US is at any fault. Believing they just go around the world spreading "peace" and "democracy", and that these terrorists have no real reason to hate the US.

I mean, take these opium fields you just described. What did the US do when they got access to some of the fields? Destroy them? Nah, they make too much money, they provided security to protect the opium fields.

Well, if we would destroy them, we would destroy the only export crop of Afghanistan. It's an unfortunate necessary evil. The country is literally useless for everything else. They can barely grow the food to survive let alone export crops or material goods. If we would go in and destroy their only source of income, we would be doing the exact opposite of what we set out to do.

We aren't there to police them, we are there to fight the enemies of our country while trying to rebuild their infrasturcture.

First of all, hitler hunted down the jews because he was an anti-semitist, not because they were influencial. Second of all, though terrorists do use propaganda, it's not like the US is completely innocent here... By "meddling" in the problems of other countries, they are causing problems. The best example is the Vietnam war.parkurtommo

He still rallied the people around hunting the Jews. If you would read some of the Nazi propaganda, the Nazi regime blamed Jews for almost all of the countries problems. He hated the Jews yet was smart enough to use them to rally the people.

Also I'm not saying the US is innocent. We are dealing with a lot of the aftermath of the Cold War. However you bring up Vietnam. You do know why we went to Vietnam in the first place right?

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

So have all western powers, not just the US.

Look at what the UK and France just did in Lybia. They helped the rebels fight off a dictator just like the US helped the Afghanistan people fight off the Soviet Union. Look who became their enemy.

Wasdie

Again, I am not arguing in defence of my country. I recognise that my government gets up to some messed up stuff, my problem is the Americans that refuse to recognise that the US is at any fault. Believing they just go around the world spreading "peace" and "democracy", and that these terrorists have no real reason to hate the US.

I mean, take these opium fields you just described. What did the US do when they got access to some of the fields? Destroy them? Nah, they make too much money, they provided security to protect the opium fields.

Well, if we would destroy them, we would destroy the only export crop of Afghanistan. It's an unfortunate necessary evil. The country is literally useless for everything else. They can barely grow the food to survive let alone export crops or material goods. If we would go in and destroy their only source of income, we would be doing the exact opposite of what we set out to do.

We aren't there to police them, we are there to fight the enemies of our country while trying to rebuild their infrasturcture.

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"] First of all, hitler hunted down the jews because he was an anti-semitist, not because they were influencial. Second of all, though terrorists do use propaganda, it's not like the US is completely innocent here... By "meddling" in the problems of other countries, they are causing problems. The best example is the Vietnam war.Wasdie

He still rallied the people around hunting the Jews. If you would read some of the Nazi propaganda, the Nazi regime blamed Jews for almost all of the countries problems. He hated the Jews yet was smart enough to use them to rally the people.

Also I'm not saying the US is innocent. We are dealing with a lot of the aftermath of the Cold War. However you bring up Vietnam. You do know why we went to Vietnam in the first place right?

Well, if we would destroy them, we would destroy the only export crop of Afghanistan. It's an unfortunate necessary evil. The country is literally useless for everything else. They can barely grow the food to survive let alone export crops or material goods. If we would go in and destroy their only source of income, we would be doing the exact opposite of what we set out to do.

We aren't there to police them, we are there to fight the enemies of our country while trying to rebuild their infrasturcture.

Wasdie

Whatever you say. I just wouldn't be surprised if the US was taking a cut of those sales. Why not? It's not like the public will learn about it.

Yeah, and they had it coming when we toppled their government.

But did it really solve anything?

Everybody "has it coming". Doesn't make any of it right or even necessary.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Well, if we would destroy them, we would destroy the only export crop of Afghanistan. It's an unfortunate necessary evil. The country is literally useless for everything else. They can barely grow the food to survive let alone export crops or material goods. If we would go in and destroy their only source of income, we would be doing the exact opposite of what we set out to do.

We aren't there to police them, we are there to fight the enemies of our country while trying to rebuild their infrasturcture.

Whatever you say. I just wouldn't be surprised if the US was taking a cut of those sales. Why not? It's not like the public will learn about it.

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

did we have a retaliatory strike against us coming? Maybe...

but 9/11? Stop trying to justify it, that was a barbaric attack targeted at civilians to cause panic, terror, and worse.

AnnoyedDragon

No one in this thread is attempting to justify it. But the US is never going to prevent the likes of 9/11, so long as they continue to fuel terrorism; by the death and destruction they cause while trying to police the world.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"] This. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to justify something that should never have happened. Frame_Dragger

No one in this thread is attempting to justify it. But the US is never going to prevent the likes of 9/11, so long as they continue to fuel terrorism; by the death and destruction they cause while trying to police the world.

[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

No one in this thread is attempting to justify it. But the US is never going to prevent the likes of 9/11, so long as they continue to fuel terrorism; by the death and destruction they cause while trying to police the world.

kuraimen

Certainly Michael Collins is no hero to the British... still, the notion that full-scale occupation and opression leads to this kind of violence is absurd. It CAN, but the motivation behind this violence is largely based at home. These various groups of terrorists want to see, first and formost, their fellow muslims adhere to their version of Islam, THEN spread and from their point of view, finish what Muhammed started in his conquest. If the USA didn't exist, it would be another country, and so on. SOMEONE is going to be "meddling" in their backyard, because to them that's the entire world, and the middle east, africa, western and eastern europe at bare minimum. That some people see heroism in that doesn't concern me in the slightest.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"] If death and destruction necessarily led to retaliatory terrorism, wouldn' the Indians still be flying jumbo jets into Big Ben? Your personal prejudice and assumptions do not change objective reality... thank god for that. Frame_Dragger

Certainly Michael Collins is no hero to the British... still, the notion that full-scale occupation and opression leads to this kind of violence is absurd. It CAN, but the motivation behind this violence is largely based at home. These various groups of terrorists want to see, first and formost, their fellow muslims adhere to their version of Islam, THEN spread and from their point of view, finish what Muhammed started in his conquest. If the USA didn't exist, it would be another country, and so on. SOMEONE is going to be "meddling" in their backyard, because to them that's the entire world, and the middle east, africa, western and eastern europe at bare minimum. That some people see heroism in that doesn't concern me in the slightest.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

I would bet money that this thread came about because of Ron Paul.

Frame_Dragger

I agree TC, because of the western world, most third world country women aren't topless anymore!!!!!!!!!!! :(lonewolf604

He never said necessarily but it's definitely very possible and there are a lot of examples throughout history to support that. A terrorist for someone is a hero to another, that is a constant.kuraimen

Certainly Michael Collins is no hero to the British... still, the notion that full-scale occupation and opression leads to this kind of violence is absurd. It CAN, but the motivation behind this violence is largely based at home. These various groups of terrorists want to see, first and formost, their fellow muslims adhere to their version of Islam, THEN spread and from their point of view, finish what Muhammed started in his conquest. If the USA didn't exist, it would be another country, and so on. SOMEONE is going to be "meddling" in their backyard, because to them that's the entire world, and the middle east, africa, western and eastern europe at bare minimum. That some people see heroism in that doesn't concern me in the slightest.

And yet in times of natural disasters and such, the USA is always the first to respond.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"]

Certainly Michael Collins is no hero to the British... still, the notion that full-scale occupation and opression leads to this kind of violence is absurd. It CAN, but the motivation behind this violence is largely based at home. These various groups of terrorists want to see, first and formost, their fellow muslims adhere to their version of Islam, THEN spread and from their point of view, finish what Muhammed started in his conquest. If the USA didn't exist, it would be another country, and so on. SOMEONE is going to be "meddling" in their backyard, because to them that's the entire world, and the middle east, africa, western and eastern europe at bare minimum. That some people see heroism in that doesn't concern me in the slightest.

Frame_Dragger

The ME has had its time? for me indoeuropeans have had their time considering that the majority of recorded history has been dominated by the indoeuropean ancestry (yes the US too comes from there). We have more social problems now than at any other time in history so I don't see how they are doing such a great job really. I welcome change. And yes I'm aware of history I just don't selectively choose what part of history matters.

[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] You do realize that many people in the ME thinks similar things about the US? In the end both sides are right and both sides are wrong. It is a difference in perspective. I'm sure most americans would want to destroy any nation that kept a constant presence and manipulation on their country.kuraimen

The ME has had its time? for me indoeuropeans have had their time considering that the majority of recorded history has been dominated by the indoeuropean ancestry (yes the US too comes from there). We have more social problems now than at any other time in history so I don't see how they are doing such a great job really. I welcome change. And yes I'm aware of history I just don't selectively choose what part of history matters.

That was rue after 11-S Before the US where slappy in dealing whit their former anti-soviet alliesdelol