#a gun for every adult

I guess that's true... It's still how I feel about it... I just can't see having guns easily available helps more than it hurts...

I've been held up at knife point where I work last year though. I don't know what it would have been like if he had a gun instead.

Derr again...without stringent training. Sometimes I type to fast for my brain.

I don't know what the definition is of easily available. The background check here isn't fullproof but it would help if it wasn't so easy to obtain guns elsewhere. The problem in America is the fact that there are as many guns as there are people, so no matter how strict the regulations people can always find private buyers to avoid going through the process. Unfortunately I don't know how anyone will ever stop that. And unfortunately the cat is already out of the bag, so in America there's no way to really stop it, other than forcing manufacturers to stop selling weapons directly...and even then there's still too many too count.

Well it would probably would have been the same end effect...as far as the robbery goes I imagine. I'm curious though - did that incident change your outlook involving your own security?

@leif3141: "In other societies this person could grab a machete or something similar and go on a slicing spree. True the gun would cause more damage but it doesn't negate the fact that deadly weapons are always going to be available."

Is this an argument for owning a gun or against? I can't tell

You can run from a knife wielding maniac, I mean as soon as he pulls out a knife/machete and maybe kills one or two people everyone else has legged it.

A guy with a gun will shoot everyone in the back as they are running away.

So which one would you rather take your chances with?

@airshocker: Even so, I'd prefer douchey, resentful left-winger if you don't mind.

I smell so much America in this thread.

So much insanity.

@sSubZerOo: Exactly. It's not simply the gun that's the problem. It's this perpetual fear mongering propaganda which reminds the public that every member of the American citizenry is a potential enemy that needs to be blown away. It's insane.

LOL no.

And you would have people believe that no one could ever possibly wish them harm? Being skeptical as to whether or not someone means me harm is no where near as insane as thinking that we all live in a world of sunshine and rainbows where the Police will protect you against anything and no one would ever want to hurt you.

Yes I should have worded it differently, but I meant civilian gun ownership.

@airshocker: Fear mongering propagandists are not stationed to educate or inform. They weaponize fear to further isolate an already isolated populace while making serious cash in the process.

So what you're saying is that you're a troll. That's already known but thanks for admitting it.

What's insane about wanting to preserve a right that's been given to us rather than see a bunch of politicians take it away.

You seriously can't see the fearmongering that started the past 6 years or so? When President Obama was elected, we literally had record numbers of gun sales........ We constantly have overly aggressive rhetoric like "don't retreat, reload!".. I have nothing against guns, it is a right to own one, but the culture it self has been fearmongering as of late.

I don't see what fear mongering has to do with the fact that it's insane to think no one around me could possibly ever mean me harm.

I am pro gun ownership...but not to the exalted level that many pro gun organizations/people seem to hold the right lately.

Well perhaps a machete was a bad comparison (even though in a crowded environment, its not unfeasible to consider that many people could be killed by a person with something like a machete). How about a person with a large vehicle who decides to plow into a group of people in some random place? You don't have much of a chance to dodge a fast moving vehicle. Or the people who were bombed at the Boston Marathon? I'm not saying that a person with a gun can't cause destruction. I am just saying that people are gonna use another avenue, if one was to take away the right to own guns. The people are clearly disturbed and generally just pick the easiest way to commit their atrocities, which is going and picking up a gun. No matter how hard one makes it to acquire a gun through proper channels, with as many guns as people, in America it is easy to obtain a gun through a private seller, especially in the age of the internet. And it seems to be incredibly easy for inner city gang members to obtain guns on the streets as well, or at least so I've heard through various media sources...so like I said, the cat is already out of the bag here (in America, not sure about other lands). I personally would not blame anyone for wanting one for protection of their home, though I myself do not have one (I do have other means, just no firearms).

On the flip side, people who think that a gun carrying public is going to be able to defend against our government if it were to turn truly tyrannical is probably as misguided as those who think that the police will be able to stop someone if they were breaking into their house before they could harm you. And people who think its a good idea for citizens across the country to conceal carry (or open carry for that matter) have probably not had many dealings with the general public, or they would not come to such a conclusion (too many hotheads that fly off the handle over the smallest provocation). Like I said, I'm not fully aware of what is required to get the license to concealed carry, but the privilege of doing so should not be given out easily. Just the other day I went to a restaurant in a small town nearby where I live. It must have been some sort of pro gun rally nearby because every patron other than my party and one or two others had rifles slinged and pistols holstered, open carry. It made me a little uneasy, I'll be the first person to say that. And I'm not a person who fears guns (I served in the army and shot on a somewhat regular basis obviously).

...but they don't

@leif3141: yeh I agree, but I don't think anyone should be aloud to conceal carry except law inforcement, having a gun in your home to defend it and your family is perfectly fine, walking around publicly with one, not a good idea IMO.

I'll bring the didgeridoo

This. I used to be a runner and now walk my dog a lot. I've had some encounters that made me prepare for when I am walking my dog...especially at night.

Is it because you think the other person might have a gun?

@thegerg: I do believe they can be a threat if they are apt to reach for their gun at the smallest provocation. I'll be the first too admit - I am not sure how often this happens. But we've never had record concealed carry permits issued as they currently are being, so I don't think we know of the full ramifications quite yet.

From what I gather, concealed carry training requires proof that one is proficient in the firearm's use, along with knowing what the laws are regarding using it in the concealed carry manner. I tend that it isn't enough, that a class must prove that a person is disciplined enough to use it only as a means of last resort. How this would be done, I do not know. I use the reference of eastern style martial arts training. Many of the users who partake in such activities could most likely easily kill other unarmed people in public. The styles of training they go through however, are more of a lifestyle other than just learning attack moves. They tend to focus on improving mental discipline in all aspects of life, which is why the highest levels of people in the martial arts have been in for years, perhaps decades. So if it takes that long for dojos (or whatever martial arts training grounds) to award people the highest levels in unarmed combat, why do we give out licenses after only several classes for people to concealed carry?

@thegerg: I just think that if you carry a gun your more likely to get involved or involve yourself in a situation that could result in the death of yourself or another person/s.

A person may feel brave because he has a gun in his back pocket, and may even start some shit with someone just because he knows he can just pull out his gun, especially if he has had a few drinks to many.

A drunk man with a concealed gun, not good.

@airshocker: spazing on me again, are you? loool...too funny.

Ah, how typical of you. Nothing of value to say, so trollololol away.

@airshocker: I'm only returning the favor; one silly comment deserves another.

Likely excuse. What a coward. At least have a pair of balls and defend your ridiculous position.

@airshocker: I pwn you routinely so there's nothing to fear where you're concern. My position is that these fear mongering propagandists deserve condemnation, not an audience. Whatever false dilemmas you choose to impose on me as a result is your problem. I'm not obliged to counter fallacious arguments.

@thegerg:

"What makes you think that? My gun has never convinced me to do anything like that."

Well it's a shame that not everyone is like you.

among legal gun owners how common is the attitude you described and how often does it lead to gun violence?

Agreed
He needs a gun