That's what confuses me. You'd think he would be for everyone having rights instead of just those who are able to "conceptualize" it. smh You haven't read Benjamin Tucker, have you?[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Well..... He is a libertarian....... Aljosa23
This topic is locked from further discussion.
That's what confuses me. You'd think he would be for everyone having rights instead of just those who are able to "conceptualize" it. smh Serious for a moment... I actually DO think that libertarianism COULD exist as a coherent governing philosophy. The general theme of "the government that governs best governs least" isn't entirely unreasonable intellectually. But the issue is that where the "least" part is drawn has been entirely coopted by really silly individuals.[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Well..... He is a libertarian....... Aljosa23
That's what confuses me. You'd think he would be for everyone having rights instead of just those who are able to "conceptualize" it. smh[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Well..... He is a libertarian....... Aljosa23
There is also the point of having an extremely strange and provactive belief just to get attention for it. You know, like Glenn Beck, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh etc...
I like Laihendi's little game. No one aside from him agrees and/or comprehends his notions of rights, and consequently he is the only person that has them.
[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]That's what confuses me. You'd think he would be for everyone having rights instead of just those who are able to "conceptualize" it. smh You haven't read Benjamin Tucker, have you?Nope. I've read very little about political philosophy besides the old masters.[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Well..... He is a libertarian....... -Sun_Tzu-
Is this related to the Lord of the Rings thing or is there something else I'm missing?Elijah Wood for president of the US!
Teenaged
[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Is this related to the Lord of the Rings thing or is there something else I'm missing? Lai is in love with himElijah Wood for president of the US!
PannicAtack
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]My ethical principles are rational, therefore any ethical principles that contradict my own are irrational.Abbetencan we please revisit this quote because it is my favorite ever
OTcars 2013.
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]My ethical principles are rational, therefore any ethical principles that contradict my own are irrational.Abbetencan we please revisit this quote because it is my favorite ever I notice that you lack a sig. Must be so embarrassing for you.
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Is this related to the Lord of the Rings thing or is there something else I'm missing? Lai is in love with himhttp://laihendi.tumblr.com/#Elijah Wood for president of the US!
dave123321
[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]That's what confuses me. You'd think he would be for everyone having rights instead of just those who are able to "conceptualize" it. smh Serious for a moment... I actually DO think that libertarianism COULD exist as a coherent governing philosophy. The general theme of "the government that governs best governs least" isn't entirely unreasonable intellectually. But the issue is that where the "least" part is drawn has been entirely coopted by really silly individuals.[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Well..... He is a libertarian....... nocoolnamejim
I do too. The tenets of the ideology often get muddied when people start talking about how their shouldn't be seat belt laws and things of that nature.
[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Is this related to the Lord of the Rings thing or is there something else I'm missing? Lai is trying to get Elijah Wood to run for the 2016 presidential election. [QUOTE="Laihendi"] Anyways I have reserved tumblr and twitter url's for the movement to draft him into running, but considering how far off the election is I am not going to be active with them for a while. Maybe I will start this summer.Elijah Wood for president of the US!
PannicAtack
Lai is trying to get Elijah Wood to run for the 2016 presidential election.Blood-ScribeIs this a joke?
Is this a joke? God I hope not.[QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"] Lai is trying to get Elijah Wood to run for the 2016 presidential election.PannicAtack
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Is this a joke? God I hope not.[QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"] Lai is trying to get Elijah Wood to run for the 2016 presidential election.nocoolnamejim
Is this a joke?[QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"] Lai is trying to get Elijah Wood to run for the 2016 presidential election.PannicAtack
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]My ethical principles are rational, therefore any ethical principles that contradict my own are irrational.Abbetencan we please revisit this quote because it is my favorite ever
BAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Is this a joke?[QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"] Lai is trying to get Elijah Wood to run for the 2016 presidential election.Blood-Scribe
Charrrrrr.....
[QUOTE="MrPraline"]Shhh no spoilers.nocoolnamejimThey actually aren't opening for me anyway. :( lol
Sauron was basically an Angel come to earth just like Gandalf and the other wizards. Unlike them though he kept his full power and was already a master craftsmen in Middle-earth heaven. As such the rings he made were the most powerful possible.[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]
Speaking of hobbits, why the fvck didn't the elves and wizards make their own more powerful rings?
coolbeans90
So, during the interim period where he lost the ring, none of the Elves/Wizards ever thought "oh, maybe we should learn to make these rings sometimes over the next few thousand years."
What exactly do you mean by 'he kept his full power?' iirc, sauron was less power than morogoth.
They wouldn't have been able to make their rings as powerful as the one Ring because they were less powerful than Sauron. And Sauron was originally less powerful than Morgoth but Morgoth dissipated his power trying to subdue the matter of Arda and eventually made himself weaker than Sauron.why is ability to conceptualize rights a necessary prerequisite to having them?AbbetenBecause rights are not relevant to someone/something that is incapable of even conceiving what it means to have rights. A tree cannot and will not ever be capable of understanding what it means to have rights, therefore a tree has no rights and it is not morally objectionable to cut one down and use it for whatever you will. It has no right to life. The same can be said for most animals. That is why it is not morally objectionable to swat a fly, use sheep for wool, etc.
It was just explained: whatever the Constitution, Bill of Rights or whatever document guarantees rights or other concepts similar to that says so, that's how it is. That's all there is to it.[QUOTE="Laihendi"]If this is so basic then it should not be difficult to explain. Which lifeforms are entitled to rights, and why? For those that are not entitled to rights - again, why?Aljosa23
In terms of your other question, animal rights DO exists. TheAnimal Enterprise Terrorism Act was strictly designed to protect animals and other lifeforms under it from humans hoping to endanger their well-being.
[QUOTE="Abbeten"]why is ability to conceptualize rights a necessary prerequisite to having them?LaihendiBecause rights are not relevant to someone/something that is incapable of even conceiving what it means to have rights. A tree cannot and will not ever be capable of understanding what it means to have rights, therefore a tree has no rights and it is not morally objectionable to cut one down and use it for whatever you will. It has no right to life. The same can be said for most animals. That is why it is not morally objectionable to swat a fly, use sheep for wool, etc. So people badly brain damaged who aren't able to conceptualize rights don't have any? Get real.
[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Abbeten"]why is ability to conceptualize rights a necessary prerequisite to having them?chrisrooRBecause rights are not relevant to someone/something that is incapable of even conceiving what it means to have rights. A tree cannot and will not ever be capable of understanding what it means to have rights, therefore a tree has no rights and it is not morally objectionable to cut one down and use it for whatever you will. It has no right to life. The same can be said for most animals. That is why it is not morally objectionable to swat a fly, use sheep for wool, etc. So people badly brain damaged who aren't able to conceptualize rights don't have any? Get real. Please provide an actual refutation of what I have just said. Please explain who/what has rights, and why.
Please explain how I am wrong.
So you believe rights come from the government? That rights didn't exist before someone wrote them down in the constitution? If you really believe that then you don't believe in rights at all, you just believe in privileges granted by the government.LaihendiIf no one is going to enforce those "rights" they don't exist. If you and I are starving on a desert island and you say to me "I have the right to not be eaten because I can conceptualize those rights" I'm going to laugh and then eat you. Rights come from a figure of authority. Whether that figure is society, government or a God figure. They require some backing to actually exist in a tangible way.
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]So you believe rights come from the government? That rights didn't exist before someone wrote them down in the constitution? If you really believe that then you don't believe in rights at all, you just believe in privileges granted by the government.Ace6301If no one is going to enforce those "rights" they don't exist. If you and I are starving on a desert island and you say to me "I have the right to not be eaten because I can conceptualize those rights" I'm going to laugh and then eat you. Rights come from a figure of authority. Whether that figure is society, government or a God figure. They require some backing to actually exist in a tangible way. Game.Set.Match to Ace:lol:
[QUOTE="whipassmt"]there are a decent number of Americans who would want Obama removed.AllicrombieThe South hasn't been relevant since the Civil War.
Is that why so many people are evacuating NY and CA and moving to TX?
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]So you believe rights come from the government? That rights didn't exist before someone wrote them down in the constitution? If you really believe that then you don't believe in rights at all, you just believe in privileges granted by the government.Ace6301If no one is going to enforce those "rights" they don't exist. If you and I are starving on a desert island and you say to me "I have the right to not be eaten because I can conceptualize those rights" I'm going to laugh and then eat you. Rights come from a figure of authority. Whether that figure is society, government or a God figure. They require some backing to actually exist in a tangible way. I have a right to live, therefore you do not have a right to murder me. If you murder me that doesn't mean I didn't have a right to live, that just means that you are a criminal thug who violated my right to live.
If no one is going to enforce those "rights" they don't exist. If you and I are starving on a desert island and you say to me "I have the right to not be eaten because I can conceptualize those rights" I'm going to laugh and then eat you. Rights come from a figure of authority. Whether that figure is society, government or a God figure. They require some backing to actually exist in a tangible way. Game.Set.Match to Ace:lol: You should consider joining a cheer leading team.[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]So you believe rights come from the government? That rights didn't exist before someone wrote them down in the constitution? If you really believe that then you don't believe in rights at all, you just believe in privileges granted by the government.Yusuke420
And it's disturbing for someone to be so eager to to have it "proved" that rights don't exist. Do you want to live in a slave society? That is the impression I get from your posts.
Every president after Grover Cleveland should have been impeached for some reason or another. The issue is, what the hell makes you think his replacement would be any better?famicommander
Possibly one of the best names in existence.
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]So you believe rights come from the government? That rights didn't exist before someone wrote them down in the constitution? If you really believe that then you don't believe in rights at all, you just believe in privileges granted by the government.LaihendiIf no one is going to enforce those "rights" they don't exist. If you and I are starving on a desert island and you say to me "I have the right to not be eaten because I can conceptualize those rights" I'm going to laugh and then eat you. Rights come from a figure of authority. Whether that figure is society, government or a God figure. They require some backing to actually exist in a tangible way. I have a right to live, therefore you do not have a right to murder me. If you murder me that doesn't mean I didn't have a right to live, that just means that you are a criminal thug who violated my right to live. Whose to say I'm a criminal thug? No one is around. No authority presides over me in this scenario. There's two people in this situation. One who claims the right to life and the other is hungry and doesn't care. Now the only other person to judge me is in my stomach. If you can prove the existence of an almighty being who can see what I've done and judge me then fine, you can claim you have a right. If you're killed in this scenario that means you had no right as, I, the only other human there did not recognize it.
My position on rights is one of the basic principles of Objectivism, so you are wrong.Laihendi
Cute. If there was any obviously correct conception of rights, then rights theorists would have all agreed it centuries ago and thus wouldn't continue to be debating it today.
I have a right to live, therefore you do not have a right to murder me. If you murder me that doesn't mean I didn't have a right to live, that just means that you are a criminal thug who violated my right to live.Laihendi
Meanwhile, you seem to be saying that children and people wth mental disorders can't conceptualise their rights to life, and thus you can freely kill them. Is that correct?
*edit* Hell, you also seem to be saying that people who disagree with your conception of the right to life do not enjoy a right to life.
Because rights are not relevant to someone/something that is incapable of even conceiving what it means to have rights. A tree cannot and will not ever be capable of understanding what it means to have rights, therefore a tree has no rights and it is not morally objectionable to cut one down and use it for whatever you will. It has no right to life. The same can be said for most animals. That is why it is not morally objectionable to swat a fly, use sheep for wool, etc.Laihendi
Some questions:
- How do you define 'conceiving of rights'? What's the threshold upon which you suddenly have that right? Do the uneducated or the stupid not have rights? Do people with slightly different conceptions of those rights not enjoy their protection? Do people educated in philosophy, political science and the law have stronger rights than others, since they would theoretically understand rights far better than anyone else?
- Do you have to be constantly coceiving of those rights to be shielded by them? Do sleeping people have rights?
- Are we allowed to conceive of any rights that we like, or is there a set free-standing list somewhere, which we automatically fall under as soon as we recognise the truth of it? If there is a free-standing list, what are they, and how can we possibly all agree on them?
- If we have to conceive of these rights in order to enliven them, do they simply not exist until people have first thought them up? If so, how are they not different from privileges, since they don't exist independently or apply to all humans?
- How can we possibly found a legal system upon concepts of rights that don't come into existence until people think of them, and which don't seem to have an agreed-upon list?
- Also, what distinguishes your rights from a mere set of personal moral principles, if no authority is ever going to adopt or enforce your conception of rights? You can argue the universal truth of them all you want, but that won't have any affect on the real world.
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]So you believe rights come from the government? That rights didn't exist before someone wrote them down in the constitution? If you really believe that then you don't believe in rights at all, you just believe in privileges granted by the government.LaihendiIf no one is going to enforce those "rights" they don't exist. If you and I are starving on a desert island and you say to me "I have the right to not be eaten because I can conceptualize those rights" I'm going to laugh and then eat you. Rights come from a figure of authority. Whether that figure is society, government or a God figure. They require some backing to actually exist in a tangible way. I have a right to live, therefore you do not have a right to murder me. If you murder me that doesn't mean I didn't have a right to live, that just means that you are a criminal thug who violated my right to live. The point is rights only exist so long as someone (be it yourself or someone acting on your behalf) is willing/able to enforce them.
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