Amazon pedophilia author arrested

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

As such we must admit free speech does not exist in the US.

Pixel-Pirate

You can't go around inventing free speech. What constitutes "free speech" is just another predetermined set of rules. The First Amendment doesn't cover obscenity. That's constitutional fact, yet you seem to want to ignore that since it doesn't support your argument.

I do? Please don't insert words in my mouth. I never said that.

Free speech would require that no speech or idea be prohibited (freedom+speech). If you restrict it then how can it be free? This makes no actual sense.

Much like how something soaking wet in water cannot be dry. You can call it dry but that does not make it dry.

You are still going on a broad concept, rather than the fact of what is and is not protected. The First Amendment does not cover obscenity. Or speech that incites violence. If you don't like it, that's just really too bad.

Im perfectly against censorship and everything like that, but i gotta side with the authorities on this one. you dont just write a book on how to rape children. thats like writing a book on how to commit murder. id like to know how the thing even got published.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

The article only says that with words from the author, and contains no actual quotations from the book.

789shadow

And? You've not read the book, so you can't really lay claim as to what it contains can you?

So, you also haven't read any of it?

Nor am I claiming matter of fact what it contains. I've said "going by accounts". Besides, even if it is what you claim it is as long as it's not depicting actual child pornography then I'm fairly certain it would not be considered obscenity.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

And? You've not read the book, so you can't really lay claim as to what it contains can you?

worlock77

So, you also haven't read any of it?

Nor am I claiming matter of fact what it contains. I've said "going by accounts". Besides, even if it is what you claim it is as long as it's not depicting actual child pornography then I'm fairly certain it would not be considered obscenity.

Because, again, by all accounts I've seen the book encourages safe, legal and harmless practices.worlock77

That appears to me to be claiming what it contains. You also prefaced that with asking me if I myself had read the book, and then proceded to say "by all accounts I've seen", meaning you also have not read the book. If you can go off of not having read the book, so may I.

Also, I'm even more fairly certain it would be.

Also, I'm even more fairly certain it would be.789shadow

Why would it be?

[QUOTE="789shadow"]Also, I'm even more fairly certain it would be.worlock77

Why would it be?

Because child pornagraphy isn't even close to the beginning line of what is obscenity when it comes to children.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]Also, I'm even more fairly certain it would be.789shadow

Why would it be?

Because child pornagraphy isn't even close to the beginning line of what is obscenity when it comes to children.

This isn't child pornography however.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Why would it be?

worlock77

Because child pornagraphy isn't even close to the beginning line of what is obscenity when it comes to children.

This isn't child pornography however.

That's what I said. If we were to place obscenities with reference to children on a sliding scale, child pornography would not be near the bottom, but rather, the top. It is more than likely that this book would fall onto the scale.

ridiculous that someone can get arrested for writing a book.

I could somewhat understand it if they were arresting him on charges of "inciting violence." However, the precedent is not even strong enough in this case because it is not presenting an imminent danger or threat. There is a difference between propagating a dangerous idea and another to rally a lynch mob in the city square.

Of course, this is all irrelevant because this is not why he was charged. The fact that they filed this under "obscenity crime" just shows their tainted motives. they are not motivated out of some need to protect children from sexual abuse. They are motivated by their own petty, infantile feelings. They think that they have a right to lock up anyone who offends them. I do not support such people. This man should be pardoned and the prosecutors should learn the difference between "offensive" and "criminal."

arbitor365

agreed

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Because child pornagraphy isn't even close to the beginning line of what is obscenity when it comes to children.

789shadow

This isn't child pornography however.

That's what I said. If we were to place obscenities with reference to children on a sliding scale, child pornography would not be near the bottom, but rather, the top. It is more than likely that this book would fall onto the scale.

Ok, now try answering the question. How would this be considered obscenity?

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

This isn't child pornography however.

worlock77

That's what I said. If we were to place obscenities with reference to children on a sliding scale, child pornography would not be near the bottom, but rather, the top. It is more than likely that this book would fall onto the scale.

Ok, now try answering the question. How would this be considered obscenity?

Pedophilia is pretty much a universally outlawed practice (however, what constitutes pedophilia differs from culture to culture). A book explaining how to practice such an outlawed practice, therefore, can fall into both obscenity and inciting violence.

And that's where we differ. I don't know of the books you speak so I can't say anything of them. But let me say, before retiring to bed, that you sound like a childish intellectual that uses logic to argue what you are too young to really understand. I would pity you if I really cared who you are. Believe what you want. If it crosses paths with what I believe, than you really do not want to cross paths with me. I will kill for what I believe... Like the author of that horrible book.

Johnny_Rock

- Lolita is about a middle-aged man having a sexual relationship with a 12 year old girl. Since being published in the mid-1950's it's been read by millions of people and been adapted to film at least twice.

- Using logic to argue? Absolutely preposterious!

- "You don't want to cross paths with me". Again, I love it when people talk big on the internet.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

That's what I said. If we were to place obscenities with reference to children on a sliding scale, child pornography would not be near the bottom, but rather, the top. It is more than likely that this book would fall onto the scale.

789shadow

Ok, now try answering the question. How would this be considered obscenity?

Pedophilia is pretty much a universally outlawed practice (however, what constitutes pedophilia differs from culture to culture). A book explaining how to practice such an outlawed practice, therefore, can fall into both obscenity and inciting violence.

But talking about it is not. Writing books about it is not. Again, take the aforementioned example of Lolita. Or, say, the film Taxi Driver.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Ok, now try answering the question. How would this be considered obscenity?

worlock77

Pedophilia is pretty much a universally outlawed practice (however, what constitutes pedophilia differs from culture to culture). A book explaining how to practice such an outlawed practice, therefore, can fall into both obscenity and inciting violence.

But talking about it is not. Writing books about it is not. Again, take the aforementioned example of Lolita. Or, say, the film Taxi Driver.

"About" being the key word there.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Pedophilia is pretty much a universally outlawed practice (however, what constitutes pedophilia differs from culture to culture). A book explaining how to practice such an outlawed practice, therefore, can fall into both obscenity and inciting violence.

789shadow

But talking about it is not. Writing books about it is not. Again, take the aforementioned example of Lolita. Or, say, the film Taxi Driver.

"About" being the key word there.

Ok.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

But talking about it is not. Writing books about it is not. Again, take the aforementioned example of Lolita. Or, say, the film Taxi Driver.

worlock77

"About" being the key word there.

Ok.

What I'm saying is that writing an instruction manual on pedophilia is not the same as just writing about pedophilia as a subject.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

"About" being the key word there.

789shadow

Ok.

What I'm saying is that writing an instruction manual on pedophilia is not the same as just writing about pedophilia as a subject.

Actually it is the same. It's writing about the subject. It isn't the act itself.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Ok.

worlock77

What I'm saying is that writing an instruction manual on pedophilia is not the same as just writing about pedophilia as a subject.

Actually it is the same. It's writing about the subject. It isn't the act itself.

Criminal Minds, for example, has had numerous episodes with pedophilia as a subject. It's what is done with the subject that matters.

Writing about pedophilia = good.

Writing how to do pedophilia = bad.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

What I'm saying is that writing an instruction manual on pedophilia is not the same as just writing about pedophilia as a subject.

789shadow

Actually it is the same. It's writing about the subject. It isn't the act itself.

Criminal Minds, for example, has had numerous episodes with pedophilia as a subject. It's what is done with the subject that matters.

Writing about pedophilia = good.

Writing how to do pedophilia = bad.

Bad =/= illegal.

And why is writing about it good? Many people would argue otherwise.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Actually it is the same. It's writing about the subject. It isn't the act itself.

worlock77

Criminal Minds, for example, has had numerous episodes with pedophilia as a subject. It's what is done with the subject that matters.

Writing about pedophilia = good.

Writing how to do pedophilia = bad.

Bad =/= illegal.

And why is writing about it good? Many people would argue otherwise.

It's incredibly easy to see why you would think this book is not covered under obscenity. Yes, in what I wrote there, bad does mean illegal. Writing a pedophilia instruction guide is not the same as writing a story with pedophilia as a subject.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Criminal Minds, for example, has had numerous episodes with pedophilia as a subject. It's what is done with the subject that matters.

Writing about pedophilia = good.

Writing how to do pedophilia = bad.

789shadow

Bad =/= illegal.

And why is writing about it good? Many people would argue otherwise.

It's incredibly easy to see why you would think this book is not covered under obscenity. Yes, in what I wrote there, bad does mean illegal. Writing a pedophilia instruction guide is not the same as writing a story with pedophilia as a subject.

How is it different? Ether way it's writing about the act, it isn't the act itself.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Bad =/= illegal.

And why is writing about it good? Many people would argue otherwise.

worlock77

It's incredibly easy to see why you would think this book is not covered under obscenity. Yes, in what I wrote there, bad does mean illegal. Writing a pedophilia instruction guide is not the same as writing a story with pedophilia as a subject.

How is it different? Ether way it's writing about the act, it isn't the act itself.

How is it different? You are kidding, right? Because writing about an illegal act, whatever form that may take, and writing an instruction manual on how to perform said illegal act are the same thing?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

It's incredibly easy to see why you would think this book is not covered under obscenity. Yes, in what I wrote there, bad does mean illegal. Writing a pedophilia instruction guide is not the same as writing a story with pedophilia as a subject.

789shadow

How is it different? Ether way it's writing about the act, it isn't the act itself.

How is it different? You are kidding, right? Because writing about an illegal act, whatever form that may take, and writing an instruction manual on how to perform said illegal act are the same thing?

In the eyes of the law they seem to be. Things like The Anarchist's Cookbook have been legally published for years.

How is it different? You are kidding, right? Because writing about an illegal act, whatever form that may take, and writing an instruction manual on how to perform said illegal act are the same thing?

789shadow

I've never read it, but doesn't the Anarchist's Cookbook provide instructions on how to build illegal bombs and weapons?

A few years back, wasn't there a similar story about someone releasing a book that was an instruction manual about how to be a goddamn hitman?

I don't recall either of those authors getting arrested for telling people HOW to do X. Why should this be any different?

This this is amazingly creepy. Who the hell releases a book about molesting children. I heard Amazon tried to defend their site selling the book too, which just boggles my mind.zombiesfan

Generally their policy has been to sell anything so long as it's legal. Funny thing is that no one would have ever known about this if the concerned citizens brigade hadn't thrown a fit. Know how many copies the author had sold previous to that? One. Exactly one copy.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

And this is the argument that people that don't have children, either because they aren't mature enough to have them or are simply just children themselves, use as an argument for "freedom of (insert freedom here).

Johnny_Rock

Yes, the true sign of maturity is wishing to remove personal freedoms for the sake of a small minority.

So you believe the entire world should be treated like children for the sake of children? I don't. Point out how that is immature. Also explain why "having a child" gives one the right to decide all laws that effect EVERYONE?

Just out of curiosity, do you support the banning of books like Lolita or Kodomo no Jikan?

And that's where we differ. I don't know of the books you speak so I can't say anything of them. But let me say, before retiring to bed, that you sound like a childish intellectual that uses logic to argue what you are too young to really understand. I would pity you if I really cared who you are. Believe what you want. If it crosses paths with what I believe, than you really do not want to cross paths with me. I will kill for what I believe... Like the author of that horrible book.

Lolita is a literary classic. Have you also never heard of 1984? Kodomo no jikan is a manga that is basically a reversal of the main plotpoint of Lolita.

Insults get you no where. I come across as a childish intellectual? You come across as a sociopathic internet tough guy. I suppose we're even.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

That's what I said. If we were to place obscenities with reference to children on a sliding scale, child pornography would not be near the bottom, but rather, the top. It is more than likely that this book would fall onto the scale.

789shadow

Ok, now try answering the question. How would this be considered obscenity?

Pedophilia is pretty much a universally outlawed practice (however, what constitutes pedophilia differs from culture to culture). A book explaining how to practice such an outlawed practice, therefore, can fall into both obscenity and inciting violence.

The practice is outlawed. Being a pedophile is not. It's very hard to outlaw a mental disorder.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

How is it different? You are kidding, right? Because writing about an illegal act, whatever form that may take, and writing an instruction manual on how to perform said illegal act are the same thing?

MrGeezer

I've never read it, but doesn't the Anarchist's Cookbook provide instructions on how to build illegal bombs and weapons?

A few years back, wasn't there a similar story about someone releasing a book that was an instruction manual about how to be a goddamn hitman?

I don't recall either of those authors getting arrested for telling people HOW to do X. Why should this be any different?

Because no one used the political buzz word of "FOR THE CHIIILDREN!".

Censoring free speech is hard unless you make people think they're somehow being protected by doing so.

Im perfectly against censorship and everything like that, but i gotta side with the authorities on this one. you dont just write a book on how to rape children. thats like writing a book on how to commit murder. id like to know how the thing even got published.

Neo-ganon

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Ok, now try answering the question. How would this be considered obscenity?

Pixel-Pirate

Pedophilia is pretty much a universally outlawed practice (however, what constitutes pedophilia differs from culture to culture). A book explaining how to practice such an outlawed practice, therefore, can fall into both obscenity and inciting violence.

The practice is outlawed. Being a pedophile is not. It's very hard to outlaw a mental disorder.

And writing a how to on the practice is not practicing pedophilia?

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Pedophilia is pretty much a universally outlawed practice (however, what constitutes pedophilia differs from culture to culture). A book explaining how to practice such an outlawed practice, therefore, can fall into both obscenity and inciting violence.

789shadow

The practice is outlawed. Being a pedophile is not. It's very hard to outlaw a mental disorder.

And writing a how to on the practice is not practicing pedophilia?

No, it isn't. No more so than writing a book on how to hunt is hunting.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Pedophilia is pretty much a universally outlawed practice (however, what constitutes pedophilia differs from culture to culture). A book explaining how to practice such an outlawed practice, therefore, can fall into both obscenity and inciting violence.

789shadow

The practice is outlawed. Being a pedophile is not. It's very hard to outlaw a mental disorder.

And writing a how to on the practice is not practicing pedophilia?

Also I don't think one "practices pedophilia" much as you don't "practice sociopathy." If writing about pedophilia was illegal, than numerous books and movies would be illegal.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

The practice is outlawed. Being a pedophile is not. It's very hard to outlaw a mental disorder.

Pixel-Pirate

And writing a how to on the practice is not practicing pedophilia?

Also I don't think one "practices pedophilia" much as you don't "practice sociopathy." If writing about pedophilia was illegal, than numerous books and movies would be illegal.

And yet again, writing "about" pedophilia is not comparable to writing "how to do" pedophilia.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

The practice is outlawed. Being a pedophile is not. It's very hard to outlaw a mental disorder.

worlock77

And writing a how to on the practice is not practicing pedophilia?

No, it isn't. No more so than writing a book on how to hunt is hunting.

Hunting is not an illegal act (100% of the time at least.) Therefore, writing a book on how to hunt is not illegal. Writing a handbook on how to practice pedophilia, which is illegal, is also illegal.

[QUOTE="muller39"]

I am glad he is arrested if he is indeed a pedophile.

Pixel-Pirate

A popular misconception, but being a pedophile is not a crime.

As long as you don't act on it. You can't help who you're attractive to.

Hunting is not an illegal act (100% of the time at least.) Therefore, writing a book on how to hunt is not illegal. Writing a handbook on how to practice pedophilia, which is illegal, is also illegal.

789shadow

Murder IS an illegal act (100% of the time). Yet, it's not illegal to write a handbook on how to commit murder.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Hunting is not an illegal act (100% of the time at least.) Therefore, writing a book on how to hunt is not illegal. Writing a handbook on how to practice pedophilia, which is illegal, is also illegal.

MrGeezer

Murder IS an illegal act (100% of the time). Yet, it's not illegal to write a handbook on how to commit murder.

Um, it isn't? News to me.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Hunting is not an illegal act (100% of the time at least.) Therefore, writing a book on how to hunt is not illegal. Writing a handbook on how to practice pedophilia, which is illegal, is also illegal.

789shadow

Murder IS an illegal act (100% of the time). Yet, it's not illegal to write a handbook on how to commit murder.

Um, it isn't? News to me.

People have wrote books on how to make drugs, how to make BOMBS, how to kill, etc. None of them got arrested.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Murder IS an illegal act (100% of the time). Yet, it's not illegal to write a handbook on how to commit murder.

789shadow

Um, it isn't? News to me.

I dunno about that. Depends how you define murder. I've got a bunch of military manuals, some of which describe the proper use of firearms, explosives, and other remorseless pieces of metal. These are available to the public, most of them anyway.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Murder IS an illegal act (100% of the time). Yet, it's not illegal to write a handbook on how to commit murder.

Palantas

Um, it isn't? News to me.

I dunno about that. Depends how you define murder. I've got a bunch of military manuals, some of which describe the proper use of firearms, explosives, and other remorseless pieces of metal. These are available to the public, most of them anyway.

Well, that wouldn't count.

Why doesn't that count?

Im perfectly against censorship and everything like that, but i gotta side with the authorities on this one. you dont just write a book on how to rape children. thats like writing a book on how to commit murder. id like to know how the thing even got published.