America currently scare the hell out of me (short version)

[QUOTE="SimpJee"]Agreed on all counts.  Like I said before, don't worry about it.  If it gets out of hand, there will be civil war.  Count on it (if it gets that far).Yarcofin

lol you guys are nuts, america is not going to get invaded out of the blue.

i dont think its a huge problem. my parents are catholic, i went to a catholic elementary school, and i go a catholic college and im an atheist. LoG-Sacrament

there has been something I have been wondering, does the united states have two seperate school systems like canada (which is a big problem, public vs catholic)

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

Cut the crap will you?

I havent said anything about official religion, so I don't know what your talking about.

Secularity (adjective form secular) is the state of being COMPLETELY separate from organizedreligion.

 

LJS9502_basic

Freedom of Religion is in the Constitiution.  Separation of Church and State is not.  Now what are YOU talking about.

Although the Constitution does not include the phrase "Separation of Church & State," neither does it say "Freedom of religion." However, the Constitution implies both in the 1st Amendment.

"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

Uh...dude...that is Freedom of religion.

read my post again...

there has been something I have been wondering, does the united states have two seperate school systems like canada (which is a big problem, public vs catholic)

mark4091

There are public schools and private schools....not necessarily Catholic.  The private schools have to abide by state regulations as to what classes are taught and length of cla sses.

read my post again...

jointed

I did...and that is how the freedom is spelled out.  It's the same for all freedoms in the constitution.  Separation of church and state didn't come about until a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.;)

[QUOTE="mark4091"]

there has been something I have been wondering, does the united states have two seperate school systems like canada (which is a big problem, public vs catholic)

LJS9502_basic

There are public schools and private schools....not necessarily Catholic.  The private schools have to abide by state regulations as to what classes are taught and length of cla sses.

well at least you guys don't seperate the kids like they do up here, which causes quite a few problems.

well at least you guys don't seperate the kids like they do up here, which causes quite a few problems.

mark4091

They are separate schools.....but there isn't any problems between the two.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

read my post again...

LJS9502_basic

I did...and that is how the freedom is spelled out.  It's the same for all freedoms in the constitution.  Separation of church and state didn't come about until a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.;)

"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion"

That's secularity....

But this doesnt matter since the US claims to be a secular state at the moment.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

read my post again...

jointed

I did...and that is how the freedom is spelled out.  It's the same for all freedoms in the constitution.  Separation of church and state didn't come about until a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.;)

"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion"

That's secularity....

But this doesnt matter since the US claims to be a secular state at the moment.

I fail to see any point you've made....or even what you're arguing about.:|

I agree with this thread, religion needs to be remove from the United States.Click_Clock

That violates the right guaranteed in the Constitution.:|

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

read my post again...

LJS9502_basic

I did...and that is how the freedom is spelled out.  It's the same for all freedoms in the constitution.  Separation of church and state didn't come about until a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.;)

"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion"

That's secularity....

But this doesnt matter since the US claims to be a secular state at the moment.

I fail to see any point you've made....or even what you're arguing about.:|

well, I'm saying that the US claims to be secular but most obviously is not.....

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

read my post again...

jointed

I did...and that is how the freedom is spelled out.  It's the same for all freedoms in the constitution.  Separation of church and state didn't come about until a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.;)

"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion"

That's secularity....

But this doesnt matter since the US claims to be a secular state at the moment.

I fail to see any point you've made....or even what you're arguing about.:|

well, I'm saying that the US claims to be secular but most obviously is not.....

this is so farfetched to even talk about. You can say that America is obviously a white country just because there are more white people here. You cant just make everything equal so you can say things are perfect. People that say they should ban religion are weak. You dont like freedom and are selfish.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

read my post again...

jointed

I did...and that is how the freedom is spelled out. It's the same for all freedoms in the constitution. Separation of church and state didn't come about until a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.;)

"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion"

That's secularity....

But this doesnt matter since the US claims to be a secular state at the moment.

I fail to see any point you've made....or even what you're arguing about.:|

well, I'm saying that the US claims to be secular but most obviously is not.....

You just said that secularity means there are no laws respecting an establishment of religion. There are not such laws, so it is secular according to you.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

read my post again...

sca321

I did...and that is how the freedom is spelled out. It's the same for all freedoms in the constitution. Separation of church and state didn't come about until a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.;)

"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion"

That's secularity....

But this doesnt matter since the US claims to be a secular state at the moment.

I fail to see any point you've made....or even what you're arguing about.:|

well, I'm saying that the US claims to be secular but most obviously is not.....

You just said that secularity means there are no laws respecting an establishment of religion. There are not such laws, so it is secular according to you.

no I did not....I said that the statement implies that the US was founded on secularity...

Secularity  means that state and organized religion must have NOTHING to do with eachother.......this ISNT the case in today's USA...

there you have it...

You always hear about radical Islam but you never hear about radical Christianity.  Oh yes it exists.  In my home town there was a night club that caused a stir amongst the religious populace here but it was no real big deal.  They then started to have girls give lap dances.  At the church a friend of mine went to he said the pastor said that the Night club should be removed by any means nessacary.  Later that sunday night the club went up in flames.

3 people were arrested and they are members of that church.  They were let out on bail later that night and guess who paid it.  Yep the pastor. And nothing else was heard of it. No trial, no justice.  

If that had been a mosque they belonged to they would be standing trial on charges of terrorism.  And the pastor (or Imam in the case of a Islam) would be right there with them as being the one who hatched the plan.

Religion has already spread like a cancer through the government.  Separation of church and state no longer exists.

Another example.

Bush vetos any human embryonic stem cell research bill because of his religious beliefs.  Simply because of his religious beliefs he refuses to do what is best for the people because his religiousness (is that a word?) clouds his judegement (that and because he is a retard

I really dont think Indoctrinating our children is fundamentalist. Going and persecuting strangers for not being part of our religion, that is fundamentalist

[QUOTE="sca321"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

read my post again...

jointed

I did...and that is how the freedom is spelled out. It's the same for all freedoms in the constitution. Separation of church and state didn't come about until a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.;)

"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion"

That's secularity....

But this doesnt matter since the US claims to be a secular state at the moment.

I fail to see any point you've made....or even what you're arguing about.:|

well, I'm saying that the US claims to be secular but most obviously is not.....

You just said that secularity means there are no laws respecting an establishment of religion. There are not such laws, so it is secular according to you.

no I did not....I said that the statement implies that the US was founded on secularity...

Secularity means that state and organized religion must have NOTHING to do with eachother.......this ISNT the case in today's USA...

there you have it...

Yes you did. I underlined, italicized, and bolded where you did. You said that what it says in the constitution is secularity, and I basically repeated it word for word and now you're denying it. Maybe it's not what you meant but it's what you said.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="sca321"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

read my post again...

sca321

I did...and that is how the freedom is spelled out. It's the same for all freedoms in the constitution. Separation of church and state didn't come about until a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.;)

"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion"

That's secularity....

But this doesnt matter since the US claims to be a secular state at the moment.

I fail to see any point you've made....or even what you're arguing about.:|

well, I'm saying that the US claims to be secular but most obviously is not.....

You just said that secularity means there are no laws respecting an establishment of religion. There are not such laws, so it is secular according to you.

no I did not....I said that the statement implies that the US was founded on secularity...

Secularity means that state and organized religion must have NOTHING to do with eachother.......this ISNT the case in today's USA...

there you have it...

Yes you did. I underlined, italicized, and bolded where you did. You said that what it says in the constitution is secularity, and I basically repeated it word for word and now you're denying it. Maybe it's not what you meant but it's what you said.

That statement/paragraph in the constitution is secular, but doesnt describe secularity as a whole...

*thumbs up*

too bad our Constitution was based on religionMichaeltheCM

I completely disagree with not raising your child to be what you are. My being raised in the church kept me off the streets of New Orleans. It taught me discipline, morals. You expect me to deny that to my child just so he can be athiest if he wants to? Why shouldn't I raise my child to be a law upstanding, God believing individual? Just cuz YOU don't believe in God? You don't want your child to grow up and rob banks you tell him that stealing is wrong. That's called parenting. Telling him he can choose to do whatever cuz of freedom and will is called teaching in my book. I want to be a parent, not a teacher...Eman5805

come on, cut the crap.....Parents should never force religion on to a child.....

[QUOTE="Eman5805"]I completely disagree with not raising your child to be what you are. My being raised in the church kept me off the streets of New Orleans. It taught me discipline, morals. You expect me to deny that to my child just so he can be athiest if he wants to? Why shouldn't I raise my child to be a law upstanding, God believing individual? Just cuz YOU don't believe in God? You don't want your child to grow up and rob banks you tell him that stealing is wrong. That's called parenting. Telling him he can choose to do whatever cuz of freedom and will is called teaching in my book. I want to be a parent, not a teacher...jointed

come on, cut the crap.....Parents should never force religion on to a child.....

Your acting like people cant choose  for themselves and always come up exactly like their parents.... which we all know really isnt true...Koolsen

  That is completely false..  Though you can not stereotype but a LARGE portion of people who come from religous families such as Christanity stay Christian..  There have been studies on this recently one in Great Britian where 1 out of 8 children changed their beliefs from their parents.. The other 7 stayed there..

  HELL THERE HAS BEEN BRAIN research showing that children who are taught religion at such a young age to reason they indoctrine it as fact making it VERY hard to persuade them to change ideas regardless of any evidence proven.  It has more to do then just simple reason and decision making, because having religion in your life ingrains it self into your psychology so a person is already bias from it.. There are always exceptions though..

[QUOTE="Eman5805"]I completely disagree with not raising your child to be what you are. My being raised in the church kept me off the streets of New Orleans. It taught me discipline, morals. You expect me to deny that to my child just so he can be athiest if he wants to? Why shouldn't I raise my child to be a law upstanding, God believing individual? Just cuz YOU don't believe in God? You don't want your child to grow up and rob banks you tell him that stealing is wrong. That's called parenting. Telling him he can choose to do whatever cuz of freedom and will is called teaching in my book. I want to be a parent, not a teacher...jointed

come on, cut the crap.....Parents should never force religion on to a child.....

I'm gonna do what I think is best for my children, and why wouldn't I do what worked so well with me with my kids? Forget religion for a second, if you always put on your seatbelt, aren't you gonna instruct your kid to wear a seatbelt? Or to not do drugs? Or say no to rides from strangers? Not to drink the stuff under the sink? As a parent you're supposed to do what you think is best for you child, and for me that'd be raising my kid in the church.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="Eman5805"]I completely disagree with not raising your child to be what you are. My being raised in the church kept me off the streets of New Orleans. It taught me discipline, morals. You expect me to deny that to my child just so he can be athiest if he wants to? Why shouldn't I raise my child to be a law upstanding, God believing individual? Just cuz YOU don't believe in God? You don't want your child to grow up and rob banks you tell him that stealing is wrong. That's called parenting. Telling him he can choose to do whatever cuz of freedom and will is called teaching in my book. I want to be a parent, not a teacher...Teh_Law

come on, cut the crap.....Parents should never force religion on to a child.....

so you're saying that religion is the only reason why the US/any other country is not totally screwed up yet?

That statement/paragraph in the constitution is secular, but doesnt describe secularity as a whole...

*thumbs up*

jointed

I don't even know what's that supposed to mean, or how it relates to whether or not the US is secular.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

That statement/paragraph in the constitution is secular, but doesnt describe secularity as a whole...

*thumbs up*

sca321

I don't even know what's that supposed to mean, or how it relates to whether or not the US is secular.

What's "that" ? My comment or the paragraph itself?

It doesnt really matter since the US government has claimed to be secular for ages now...

America will be able to find suicide bombers soon then.

Jesus loves you

[QUOTE="sca321"][QUOTE="jointed"]

That statement/paragraph in the constitution is secular, but doesnt describe secularity as a whole...

*thumbs up*

jointed

I don't even know what's that supposed to mean, or how it relates to whether or not the US is secular.

What's "that" ? My comment or the paragraph itself?

It doesnt really matter since the US government has claimed to be secular for ages now...

Thats not enough.Therea are always people who wants to destroy secular structure.

Just like in Turkey, the current party AKP is taking over government and slowly court.And they are now trying to put their President.

Court and the Kemalist party is trying to stop them but in the end(maybe) there'll be a military coup.Which is bad for democracy, but secular system must be defended.

edit:If army fails Turkey may not be a secular country in the future but thats unlikely hopefully

This is an example, the same goes for the USA

[QUOTE="sca321"][QUOTE="jointed"]

That statement/paragraph in the constitution is secular, but doesnt describe secularity as a whole...

*thumbs up*

jointed

I don't even know what's that supposed to mean, or how it relates to whether or not the US is secular.

What's "that" ? My comment or the paragraph itself?

It doesnt really matter since the US government has claimed to be secular for ages now...

Oops typo. I meant "what that's" not "what's that". I don't even know what we're arguing/debating about anymore, so I think I'm going to stop.

The main tenets of Christianity is to 'spread the Gospel', and to bring your children up in the faith that you are. Once, a child grows up and leave their parents, they are free to believe what they want. FragStains

1) Is English your first language?

2) Do you live in America?

You shouldn't judge our entire nation off of our president. 

1) Is English your first language?

2) Do you live in America?

You shouldn't judge our entire nation off of our president.

helium_flash

[QUOTE="SimpJee"]Agreed on all counts. Like I said before, don't worry about it. If it gets out of hand, there will be civil war. Count on it (if it gets that far).Yarcofin

You are really paranoid aren't you?  Where do you live? 

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]

1) Is English your first language?

2) Do you live in America?

You shouldn't judge our entire nation off of our president.

quiglythegreat

"We have a legacy of religious fantacism?" :roll:  Got anything to back that up?  Just because our president is religious doesn't mean the rest of the country is.  Last time i checked, it is still illegal to teach religion in school, and noone forces any religion on you.
Also, it really depends on where you live.  The only religious part of the country is the South-East.

How about countries such as Spain and France that are 97% Roman Catholic?  They are quite developed. 

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="helium_flash"]

1) Is English your first language?

2) Do you live in America?

You shouldn't judge our entire nation off of our president.

helium_flash

"We have a legacy of religious fantacism?" :roll: Got anything to back that up? Just because our president is religious doesn't mean the rest of the country is. Last time i checked, it is still illegal to teach religion in school, and noone forces any religion on you.
Also, it really depends on where you live. The only religious part of the country is the South-East.

How about countries such as Spain and France that are 97% Roman Catholic? They are quite developed.

[QUOTE="sca321"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

jointed

well, I'm saying that the US claims to be secular but most obviously is not.....

You just said that secularity means there are no laws respecting an establishment of religion. There are not such laws, so it is secular according to you.

no I did not....I said that the statement implies that the US was founded on secularity...

Secularity means that state and organized religion must have NOTHING to do with eachother.......this ISNT the case in today's USA...

there you have it...

WTF are you talking about? How is it NOT secular? Politicians may make choices based on what they believe, but there is NO religion endorsed by the government AT ALL. Last time i checked, there was an Atheist senator from California, and also a just elected Muslim senator.

Stop trying to say the US isn't secular when there in nothing in the government that supports any religion at all. Religious politicians =/= Religious Government!

WTF are you talking about? How is it NOT secular? Politicians may make choices based on what they believe, but there is NO religion endorsed by the government AT ALL. Last time i checked, there was an Atheist senator from California, and also a just elected Muslim senator.

Stop trying to say the US isn't secular when there in nothing in the government that supports any religion at all. Religious politicians =/= Religious Government!

helium_flash

[QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="helium_flash"]

quiglythegreat

"We have a legacy of religious fantacism?" :roll: Got anything to back that up? Just because our president is religious doesn't mean the rest of the country is. Last time i checked, it is still illegal to teach religion in school, and noone forces any religion on you.
Also, it really depends on where you live. The only religious part of the country is the South-East.

How about countries such as Spain and France that are 97% Roman Catholic? They are quite developed.

The Second Great Awakening happened BEFORE the Civil War!  OVER 150 years ago!  Also, the Second Great Awakening wasn't limited to the United States. 

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]

WTF are you talking about? How is it NOT secular? Politicians may make choices based on what they believe, but there is NO religion endorsed by the government AT ALL. Last time i checked, there was an Atheist senator from California, and also a just elected Muslim senator.

Stop trying to say the US isn't secular when there in nothing in the government that supports any religion at all. Religious politicians =/= Religious Government!

quiglythegreat

A state religion.