America currently scare the hell out of me (short version)

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]

WTF are you talking about? How is it NOT secular? Politicians may make choices based on what they believe, but there is NO religion endorsed by the government AT ALL. Last time i checked, there was an Atheist senator from California, and also a just elected Muslim senator.

Stop trying to say the US isn't secular when there in nothing in the government that supports any religion at all. Religious politicians =/= Religious Government!

quiglythegreat

In that case, the only way for a government to NOT be secular is if all the representatives were Atheist. 

The Second Great Awakening happened BEFORE the Civil War! OVER 150 years ago! Also, the Second Great Awakening wasn't limited to the United States.

sca321

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="helium_flash"]

WTF are you talking about? How is it NOT secular? Politicians may make choices based on what they believe, but there is NO religion endorsed by the government AT ALL. Last time i checked, there was an Atheist senator from California, and also a just elected Muslim senator.

Stop trying to say the US isn't secular when there in nothing in the government that supports any religion at all. Religious politicians =/= Religious Government!

sca321

A state religion.

In that case, the only way for a government to NOT be secular is if all the representatives were Atheist. helium_flash

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="sca321"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jointed"]

helium_flash

well, I'm saying that the US claims to be secular but most obviously is not.....

You just said that secularity means there are no laws respecting an establishment of religion. There are not such laws, so it is secular according to you.

no I did not....I said that the statement implies that the US was founded on secularity...

Secularity means that state and organized religion must have NOTHING to do with eachother.......this ISNT the case in today's USA...

there you have it...

WTF are you talking about? How is it NOT secular? Politicians may make choices based on what they believe, but there is NO religion endorsed by the government AT ALL. Last time i checked, there was an Atheist senator from California, and also a just elected Muslim senator.

Stop trying to say the US isn't secular when there in nothing in the government that supports any religion at all. Religious politicians =/= Religious Government!

Religious politicians making decisions based on religion = not secular.

Politicians using religion to win elections = not secular.

Secularity isnt only about how the government endorse religion upon its people. It's also about how religion is affecting the nation's sociological structure.

I say again, Secularity means that state and organized religion must have NOTHING to do with eachother.

Yes Yes..non religious people are allowed to do whatever they please, but when it's religious, that's a horrible thing.sparklebarkle

[QUOTE="sca321"]

The Second Great Awakening happened BEFORE the Civil War! OVER 150 years ago! Also, the Second Great Awakening wasn't limited to the United States.

quiglythegreat

First, the First Great Awakening happened before the US was independent. 

Second, those are horrible examples.  The US was only 30 or so years old when the Second Great Awakening occured.  You need to give maybe something.. more recent for there to be a history of religious fantacism.  You gave 3 examples, all of which happened A LONG TIME AGO.  The United States hasn't done anything recent for us to be called religious fanatics.

According to your logic, i could say that all white people are racist from the way they treated black people in their past.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="sca321"]

The Second Great Awakening happened BEFORE the Civil War! OVER 150 years ago! Also, the Second Great Awakening wasn't limited to the United States.

helium_flash

First, the First Great Awakening happened before the US was independent.

Second, those are horrible examples. The US was only 30 or so years old when the Second Great Awakening occured. You need to give maybe something.. more recent for there to be a history of religious fantacism. You gave 3 examples, all of which happened A LONG TIME AGO. The United States hasn't done anything recent for us to be called religious fanatics.

According to your logic, i could say that all white people are racist from the way they treated black people in their past.

I think people should want what will be best for everyone, not what they're told to want. I just want some goddamn rational thinking.
quiglythegreat

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] I think people should want what will be best for everyone, not what they're told to want. I just want some goddamn rational thinking.
sparklebarkle

[QUOTE="sparklebarkle"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] I think people should want what will be best for everyone, not what they're told to want. I just want some goddamn rational thinking.
quiglythegreat

  Don't forget Lobbying and big business.

[QUOTE="sparklebarkle"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] I think people should want what will be best for everyone, not what they're told to want. I just want some goddamn rational thinking.
quiglythegreat

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="sparklebarkle"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] I think people should want what will be best for everyone, not what they're told to want. I just want some goddamn rational thinking.
sparklebarkle

[QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="sca321"]

The Second Great Awakening happened BEFORE the Civil War! OVER 150 years ago! Also, the Second Great Awakening wasn't limited to the United States.

quiglythegreat

First, the First Great Awakening happened before the US was independent.

Second, those are horrible examples. The US was only 30 or so years old when the Second Great Awakening occured. You need to give maybe something.. more recent for there to be a history of religious fantacism. You gave 3 examples, all of which happened A LONG TIME AGO. The United States hasn't done anything recent for us to be called religious fanatics.

According to your logic, i could say that all white people are racist from the way they treated black people in their past.

You could contribute most of that due to the fact that we have millions of hispanic immigrants flooding into our country each year.

Also, according to wikipedia, in 2001, 14.5% of the people identified themselves as having no faith.  76.7% identified themselves as Christian.  That's less than your 94%.   Plus, you give no numbers as to how religious other countries are.  According to wiki again, England is 71% Christian and 22.3% faithless.  That's not much less than the US.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="sca321"]

The Second Great Awakening happened BEFORE the Civil War! OVER 150 years ago! Also, the Second Great Awakening wasn't limited to the United States.

helium_flash

First, the First Great Awakening happened before the US was independent.

Second, those are horrible examples. The US was only 30 or so years old when the Second Great Awakening occured. You need to give maybe something.. more recent for there to be a history of religious fantacism. You gave 3 examples, all of which happened A LONG TIME AGO. The United States hasn't done anything recent for us to be called religious fanatics.

According to your logic, i could say that all white people are racist from the way they treated black people in their past.

You could contribute most of that due to the fact that we have millions of hispanic immigrants flooding into our country each year.

Also, according to wikipedia, in 2001, 14.5% of the people identified themselves as having no faith.  76.7% identified themselves as Christian.  That's less than your 94%.   Plus, you give no numbers as to how religious other countries are.  According to wiki again, England is 71% Christian and 22.3% faithless.  That's not much less than the US.

These numbers are irrelevant.....I don't know about america, but in Europe , a small amount (0,01% ) of your tax money goes to the chruches and you yourself have to tell the government that you don't want to pay....Most people simply pay and don't want to bother with the paper work. The people who has done the survey you're talking about has simply counted the people who's paying that amount, and therefore it's COMPLETELY irrelevant.

These numbers are irrelevant.....I don't know about america, but in Europe , a small amount (0,01% ) of your tax money goes to the chruches and you yourself have to tell the government that you don't want to pay....Most people simply pay and don't want to bother with the paper work. The people who has done the survey you're talking about has simply counted the people who's paying that amount, and therefore it's COMPLETELY irrelevant.

jointed

So European tax money goes to churches, huh? Now who's not secular.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

These numbers are irrelevant.....I don't know about america, but in Europe , a small amount (0,01% ) of your tax money goes to the chruches and you yourself have to tell the government that you don't want to pay....Most people simply pay and don't want to bother with the paper work. The people who has done the survey you're talking about has simply counted the people who's paying that amount, and therefore it's COMPLETELY irrelevant.

sca321

So European tax money goes to churches, huh? Now who's not secular.

  Technically speaking Churchs in the US get funds too.. Indirectly..  For instance churchs don't pay taxs yet they get the services of the fire and police departments.

why do so many americains go to church? most arnt even christian, they just feel they have to go to church...ill never understand u americains...good ol'Britainiagamerchris810

This post is one big contradiction

[QUOTE="sca321"][QUOTE="jointed"]

These numbers are irrelevant.....I don't know about america, but in Europe , a small amount (0,01% ) of your tax money goes to the chruches and you yourself have to tell the government that you don't want to pay....Most people simply pay and don't want to bother with the paper work. The people who has done the survey you're talking about has simply counted the people who's paying that amount, and therefore it's COMPLETELY irrelevant.

sSubZerOo

So European tax money goes to churches, huh? Now who's not secular.

Technically speaking Churchs in the US get funds too.. Indirectly.. For instance churchs don't pay taxs yet they get the services of the fire and police departments.

Tax exempt status isn't that same as getting tax money. 

You could contribute most of that due to the fact that we have millions of hispanic immigrants flooding into our country each year.

Also, according to wikipedia, in 2001, 14.5% of the people identified themselves as having no faith. 76.7% identified themselves as Christian. That's less than your 94%. Plus, you give no numbers as to how religious other countries are. According to wiki again, England is 71% Christian and 22.3% faithless. That's not much less than the US.

helium_flash

http://pewforum.org/publications/surveys/religion-politics-06.pdf 

[QUOTE="sparklebarkle"]Yes Yes..non religious people are allowed to do whatever they please, but when it's religious, that's a horrible thing.quiglythegreat

I agree