Americans apparantly hate atheists

@MBirdy88@jasean79 You can't truly believe in anything until you've questioned everything.

That, is the point I was trying to get him to build up to.

Cliche word and a shameless wiki quote but the Indoctrination conclusion applies here.

"Indoctrination is the process of inculcatingideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine).^[1] It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned."

We all go through it. here in the UK... Protestant Christianity is taught in schools, we had to prayer, go to church in primary school... should I have accepted the first thing taught to me as fact? as "informed"? just because those around me taught it to me? Religeon... the only subject in school.... that truly had no way of validating itself... and somehow that is acceptable.

who hates you over your misinformation?

@MBirdy88: It's a difficult issue to tackle in religious circles and outside of religious circles because the stereotype is that indoctrination is the primary reason why people believe in a higher power. The reason is two-fold and I'll share them both -- a.) It is an idea that has snowballed over time, and b.) It's easier to qualify (and perhaps dismiss) the opinions of individuals whom one believes have been indoctrinated.

That being said, I think there's a certain level of courage in taking action to learn more about that with which you do not agree. My favorite podcasts and news articles differ wildly in political and social ideology. The things that interest me most are the things I would without critical thought dismiss as outrageous crazy talk. But because I have a sympathetic imagination, I try to live in the world that these people live in to understand better their point of view.

I would implore everyone contributing in this arena (religion and God) to place themselves in the shoes of those they do not agree with and assault your mind with opinions that differ from your own. I won't be so cliche' to say seek and you will find, but I will say stop waiting to be convinced about anything and try to understand why someone else is.

Why is it untrue?

@MBirdy88:

"OK. so what separates you from lets say the Muslims, that have been educated in the exact same way?"

Personal choice, really. I choose to study Catholicism, just as someone would choose to be a Muslim.

"what makes you correct?"

I never said that my religion is the "correct" one. It's not about right and wrong, it's about personal choice (see above).

"what makes you more informed than them?"

More informed about my religion then they are? I study it more than I study other religions. Doesn't mean I'm more educated than someone else. I'm constantly learning about it which helps to further my connection to God.

"What makes you more informed than Atheists that have actually... looked at several religions or been educated and then rejected those religions based on the information provided?"

I'd be interested to meet people that have followed this approach and discuss with them why they chose to be agnostic or atheist.

"What is your education level of the other major/minor religions out there?"

I never claimed to be a theologian, nor an expert on world religions. Again, I never put forth that my belief is the right one. I was raised Catholic and from studying the religion in school and again as an adult, I've chosen to practice this faith above all others, not because they are wrong, but because I most closely associate with Catholicism over another denomination like Evangels or Lutherans, for instance.

Yeah, but it's okay because atheists hate America.

lol, I do not think you understand the spirit of the phrase. :P

Being a malicious cynic will make you miserable.

What mac says is true.

Yeah, atheists tend to have read more of the Bible than most Christians. It's usually the reason WHY they are atheist.

They can hate us all they want.

You are right about everything you said except that it does matter.

That is a giant, giant generalization. How can you possibly support that?

Do your best not to make it an "us vs them" sort of thing. And I'd encourage anyone who goes to church to walk of of a sermon if that sort of rhetoric rears it's ugly head.

Yes, it's a generalization. So what? A LOT of atheists are atheists because they have read the Bible.

Even the phrase, "I'm an atheist because I read the Bible," is a lazy one (apathetic) unless there's a follow up question, "How did you interpret what you read and why did it inspire your atheism?"

Questions are so easy to ask and so often we fail to do so.

I think it's pretty obvious how the atheist in question interprets the bible and why it inspired their atheism.

That seems rather illogical. I can understand not being a Christian because of the bible, but how can it put you off the concept of god entirely? There are much more than one religion in the world.

It's exactly the opposite. In fact I think perpetuating that idea is lazy and harmful to the greater conversation about a higher power. How can you make such simple proclamations about a document as old, complex, and evolutionary as the Bible?

It's been my research into religions throughout history that has contributed to my being an atheist. There are things we as humans will probably never know and some of us find comfort in using god to explain what we don't know. Why are we here? God made us! What happens when we die? We go see god! Why does the universe exist? God made it! Who made god? Oh, he was always there...

Sounds like you really did your homework.

If that was the conclusion of your research, I might declare it was shallow at best.

So basically, and correct me if I'm wrong here, you seem to be coming from the position that a person is always in error if their research into the bible persuaded them towards atheism.

Occam's Razor suggests the simplest explanation is most probable. God is not the simplest explanation.

@musicalmac: Shallow at best? That's quite the assumption. I'm more versed in religion, not just christianity, than most. Most christians I've come across are taught if it's not christianity, it's evil and wrong and won't even consider alternatives. Morality and such aren't exclusive to christians either.

Occam's Razor also suggests:

"Other, more complicated solutions may ultimately prove correct, but—in the absence of certainty—the fewer assumptions that are made, the better."

Yep. Which is why I said probable.

Which has nothing to do with reading the bible.

Some people will say that they don't like atheists because they are militant or whatever, but I think most of the dislike towards them comes from people being mistrustful of non-conformity.

I left the quote chain so that context could be fully understood.

We have another "Can you elaborate on that," vs a loaded question (though here in this instance it's more of a probing statement) on our hands here. The problem is you assume first and ask question later. You formulate an opinion based on shallow reasoning and then choose to perpetuate that opinion in the most personally harmful way possible. You are indeed the malicious liberal stereotype.

My comment is accurate and infers nothing about the "correct" conclusion. What it does do is call into question the simple-minded conclusion of a wholly unexplained "research" project, an answer too "easy" for such a complex issue. It also serves as a challenge to that individual to further explain him or herself so that we can all better understand his or her point of view. That's why my rhetoric isn't definitive in nature.

Gonna have to agree with thegerg that this statement makes no sense. By this logic, one can't truly believe in anything at all since it's impossible (and counterproductive) to question everything.

That may be true in an anecdotal sense, but it's likely untrue on a broader scale. It's worth acknowledging the fact that the vocal minority is just that.

I think this post here outs you a little bit, I don't believe you're quite as well versed as you claim to be. I recommend you embrace the criticism and ask why I've leveled it against you, and not dig in your heels and try to further explain your points. Unless of course you're confident that your position is strong enough to do just that.

It's a statement made with existential and spiritual growth in mind. Try not to be so literal and look at the context.

@toast_burner: i agree, the bible isn't even logical

So if my entire family is say Christian and my daughter brings home an atheist I can't dislike that without being a bigot? Really?

So now it's wrong to want a new addition to the family to have similar beliefs and similar moral standards?

Freaking amazing...crybaby liberals really make me want to vomit. Always with this annoying "no one likes me and I'm treated unfairly" whining...grow up.

I find this is untrue on so many levels.....most of the time.

In my experience they tend to only know the parts of the Bible that they THINK they can call out as bigotry or that they THINK that they see a contradiction of some sort. And it usually ends up showing they are ignorant to something in the Bible and it's being spun in the wrong direction. It's almost always misunderstanding of what the Bible says.

@BSC14: Yeah it is... Because if you are truly acceptingm, then it shouldn't matter to you...

Which all could easily be accomplished by asking the simple question, "can you elaborate on that"? Instead you made baseless assumptions.

You're being profoundly dishonest to the point where it becomes impossible to engage you in rational discourse. You have no problem throwing out what you would describe as probing statements and loaded questions but the moment that someone addresses the actual implication of these statements you reply with a rather hilarious passive aggressive rant and cry plausible deniability.

That's just not true.

If it's important to me that my family continues to follow Christ, that has nothing to do with you personally. It's more about my family keeping to our beliefs...not that they would not accept you as a person or that you would be considered less of a person of course.

You're incorrect imo in that a Christian can't act out of character. It happens....out of anger, frustration, desire, etc....

People are people...we are all very imperfect. It's the whole reason for Christ.

You are not expected to be perfect.

@musicalmac:

It doesn't make sense any way you slice it IMO.

Disliking that pretty small minded, but no, it doesn't make you a bigot.

@musicalmac:

I don't even get what you're trying to say. My looking into various religions which has lead me to my personal conclusions about religion are wrong? I'm glad you know me well enough to doubt the extent of my 30+ years of religious examination. My statements are about what I believe and why without writing an essay about it. On another note, If my daughter came home with a religious guy, I probably wouldn't care.

Then there is some sort of communication error here if this is how you truly feel. what was the "I don't hate them because they are not informed" comment that originally sparked this conversation.