Any questions on Islam?

Don't women have to wear those ridiculous headdresses? If so, why?deepdreamer256

It's their choice. It is however a requirement from God that both men and women dress modestly. The Hijab is part of the modest dress, along with long skirts. For men, the same applies, as they should cover themselves and not wear revieling clothes. One can dress nice, but the idea is, you shouldn't be advertising your body. This whole concept links itself to the concept of protecting one's chastity.

Oddly, while you consider the Hijab ridiculous - I find modesty in a women to be beutiful and respectful. Is it a suprise that the most well known, and best selling magazine cover is that of an Afghan women in a Hijab?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Don't you think your 2nd sentence is quite inaccurate and inflamatory?

In fact, Christianity has caused terrible bloodshed and wholesale hardship and death in Europe during the middle ages. People were executed or imprisoned for believing anything else (i.e. Bruno and Galileo). Most people lived their lives in poverty and were totally controlled by the church.

The crusades were fought in the name of Christian religion. Why else call them "crusades"?

Hitler used Christian religion in many of his public addresses to inspire his people to action under God's will (so he thought), right up to the end of WW2.

Both religions are as bad as eath other, offering all rival religions total disrespect. The two religions both state "if you don't believe in this religion only, you are going to die horribly in God's vengence." It is no wonder that religion has been the cause of oppression and warfare throughout history, if that's what religious types think of each other.

Darthric

"Don't you think your 2nd sentence is quite inaccurate and inflamatory?"

Not at all, im pretty sure in Islam when a person attacks a Muslim he is attacking all of Islam, this theory does not exist in other faiths, as it does more harm than good.

"In fact, Christianity has caused terrible bloodshed and wholesale hardship and death in Europe during the middle ages. People were executed or imprisoned for believing anything else (i.e. Bruno and Galileo). Most people lived their lives in poverty and were totally controlled by the church."

I completely agree with you, in fact Islam was far more civilized than Christianity and did far more for a great amount of time, My argument is it was much more violent in its creation and expansion.

"The crusades were fought in the name of Christian religion. Why else call them "crusades"?"

Thats a stupidly simple way of looking at them, like arguing everything is black or white, not even worth a response really...

"Hitler used Christian religion in many of his public addresses to inspire his people to action under God's will (so he thought), right up to the end of WW2."

What Hitler said or thought? Nazis were not keen on religion at all, no matter what Hitler said or thought. Simple fact i was making, WW2 was not fought over faith.

"Both religions are as bad as eath other, offering all rival religions total disrespect. The two religions both state "if you don't believe in this religion only, you are going to die horribly in God's vengence." It is no wonder that religion has been the cause of oppression and warfare throughout history, if that's what religious types think of each other."

I agree to extent with you, but why are atheists so quick to forget all of the good things faith have done, the west is built on the principles of Christianity, without those principles would we be in a better position? Compare the West's principles with the Islamic worlds principles, its why the two are so different.

The crusades did have religious aims. Your not bothering to respond actually says a lot.

It is a fact that nazi propaganda used concepts of God and Christianity as motivating and cohesive forces. I could quote Hilter's religious Christian desires and philosophy from Mein Kampf, or I could point you to one of many dozens of speeches by Hitler and other nazis, expounding the need for Chistian Germans to fight in Gods name for the glory of their nation.

I repeat, what good has religion done?

Your talk of principles is too vague. What principles are so different between easternand western philosophies?

Don't forget that many pre-christian societies contributed greatly to European culture. This culture was repressed for hundreds of years during the middle ages by the catholic church. In the UK, where I am from, we have plenty of evidence supporting ordered societies thousands of years before Christianity came along.

We inherit our moral views from a necessity to co-exist together, rather than being told them. Our morals evolve to suit our society.

The crusades did have religious aims. Your not bothering to respond actually says a lot.

It is a fact that nazi propaganda used concepts of God and Christianity as motivating and cohesive forces. I could quote Hilter's religious Christian desires and philosophy from Mein Kampf, or I could point you to one of many dozens of speeches by Hitler and other nazis, expounding the need for Chistian Germans to fight in Gods name for the glory of their nation.

I repeat, what good has religion done?

Your talk of principles is too vague. What principles are so different between easternand western philosophies?

Don't forget that many pre-christian societies contributed greatly to European culture. This culture was repressed for hundreds of years during the middle ages by the catholic church. In the UK, where I am from, we have plenty of evidence supporting ordered societies thousands of years before Christianity came along.

We inherit our moral views from a necessity to co-exist together, rather than being told them. Our morals evolve to suit our society.

RationalAtheist

The crusades were actually fought over land. They weren't fighting to spread a religion but to get back land that had been taken. Just because they belonged to a particular group does NOT mean they were fighting for the religion. Nonetheless, the land was considered holy...and thus, they gave it a nice little name.

The nazis were most certainly NOT fighting for religion.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

The crusades did have religious aims. Your not bothering to respond actually says a lot.

It is a fact that nazi propaganda used concepts of God and Christianity as motivating and cohesive forces. I could quote Hilter's religious Christian desires and philosophy from Mein Kampf, or I could point you to one of many dozens of speeches by Hitler and other nazis, expounding the need for Chistian Germans to fight in Gods name for the glory of their nation.

I repeat, what good has religion done?

Your talk of principles is too vague. What principles are so different between easternand western philosophies?

Don't forget that many pre-christian societies contributed greatly to European culture. This culture was repressed for hundreds of years during the middle ages by the catholic church. In the UK, where I am from, we have plenty of evidence supporting ordered societies thousands of years before Christianity came along.

We inherit our moral views from a necessity to co-exist together, rather than being told them. Our morals evolve to suit our society.

LJS9502_basic

The crusades were actually fought over land. They weren't fighting to spread a religion but to get back land that had been taken. Just because they belonged to a particular group does NOT mean they were fighting for the religion. Nonetheless, the land was considered holy...and thus, they gave it a nice little name.

The nazis were most certainly NOT fighting for religion.

I didn't say that crusades were not fought over land. I said they had religious aims.

I didn't say the nazis were fighting for religion. I said they used religion to inspire the populus to war.

Get it right next time, dude...

Pork too is harmful too health, search the net. Eating of pigs is forbidden in Islam. Nowhere is it said that these animals are to be hated or slaughtered for pleasure etc. .Infact eating of pork is forbidden in Christianity and Judaism as well and same goes for Alcohol.

spierdalaj666

Pork is forbidden is Judaism, but not alcohol.

The crusades did have religious aims. Your not bothering to respond actually says a lot.

It is a fact that nazi propaganda used concepts of God and Christianity as motivating and cohesive forces. I could quote Hilter's religious Christian desires and philosophy from Mein Kampf, or I could point you to one of many dozens of speeches by Hitler and other nazis, expounding the need for Chistian Germans to fight in Gods name for the glory of their nation.

I repeat, what good has religion done?

Your talk of principles is too vague. What principles are so different between easternand western philosophies?

Don't forget that many pre-christian societies contributed greatly to European culture. This culture was repressed for hundreds of years during the middle ages by the catholic church. In the UK, where I am from, we have plenty of evidence supporting ordered societies thousands of years before Christianity came along.

We inherit our moral views from a necessity to co-exist together, rather than being told them. Our morals evolve to suit our society.

RationalAtheist

Wow, this argument is still going strong.

I have to disagree with you mr. rational about the crusades. It is obvious that they had religious aims, but the question is what were those aims? If we're basing our argument solely on pope urban's speech, then yeah one could easily argue that the crusades were launched to drive the infidels from jerusalem. However, you do have to realize that several years before the launch of the first crusade, the seljuk turks (newly converted to islam, hence radical) took over jerusalem and forbade christian pilgrims entry. Now whether this played a major role in the urge of many europeans to join the crusade is dabatable, but it definitely played a role. When you think about it, it was really the role of the knights templar to ensure that pilgrims had a safe route to the holy land, hence supporting the view that the seljuk's actions may have been a catalyst in launching the crusades.

I strongly agree with you on the topic of monotheistic religions (or rather any religions for that matter) contributing significantly to our view of morals and ethics. There are certain laws that have been present in virtually all societies since the dawn of civilization, such as bans against murder, theft, etc. Without these, ancient pre-monotheistic societies would never be able to survive since everyone would be killing everyone else.

If societies required monotheism to survive, then how did pagans like the romans, greeks, babylonians, egyptians, mayans, develop such highly sophisticated and more evolved societies than their monotheist counterparts?

The crusades were actually fought over land. They weren't fighting to spread a religion but to get back land that had been taken. Just because they belonged to a particular group does NOT mean they were fighting for the religion. Nonetheless, the land was considered holy...and thus, they gave it a nice little name.

LJS9502_basic

That is also true. It was the byzantine emperor that asked the pope for help to defend against the constantly invading muslim forces.

As for the nazis, from my recollection they promoted pagan teachings more than christianity, though this is not to suggest that they didn't/wouldn't use christianity as a tool to manipulate the masses.

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"]

Pork too is harmful too health, search the net. Eating of pigs is forbidden in Islam. Nowhere is it said that these animals are to be hated or slaughtered for pleasure etc. .Infact eating of pork is forbidden in Christianity and Judaism as well and same goes for Alcohol.

foggy666

Pork is forbidden is Judaism, but not alcohol.

Friend, you misquoted me, i did not say that.

Also, there is no prohibition in christianity regarding the consumption of alcohol or pork. There are actually really no dietary restriction IIRC.

What is the point of the 72 Virgins when you go to heaven? I have a rough idea what they are for but what is the main point of them?123625

and what idea might that be?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

The crusades did have religious aims. Your not bothering to respond actually says a lot.

It is a fact that nazi propaganda used concepts of God and Christianity as motivating and cohesive forces. I could quote Hilter's religious Christian desires and philosophy from Mein Kampf, or I could point you to one of many dozens of speeches by Hitler and other nazis, expounding the need for Chistian Germans to fight in Gods name for the glory of their nation.

I repeat, what good has religion done?

Your talk of principles is too vague. What principles are so different between easternand western philosophies?

Don't forget that many pre-christian societies contributed greatly to European culture. This culture was repressed for hundreds of years during the middle ages by the catholic church. In the UK, where I am from, we have plenty of evidence supporting ordered societies thousands of years before Christianity came along.

We inherit our moral views from a necessity to co-exist together, rather than being told them. Our morals evolve to suit our society.

spierdalaj666

Wow, this argument is still going strong.

I have to disagree with you mr. rational about the crusades. It is obvious that they had religious aims, but the question is what were those aims? If we're basing our argument solely on pope urban's speech, then yeah one could easily argue that the crusades were launched to drive the infidels from jerusalem. However, you do have to realize that several years before the launch of the first crusade, the seljuk turks (newly converted to islam, hence radical) took over jerusalem and forbade christian pilgrims entry. Now whether this played a major role in the urge of many europeans to join the crusade is dabatable, but it definitely played a role. When you think about it, it was really the role of the knights templar to ensure that pilgrims had a safe route to the holy land, hence supporting the view that the seljuk's actions may have been a catalyst in launching the crusades.

I strongly agree with you on the topic of monotheistic religions (or rather any religions for that matter) contributing significantly to our view of morals and ethics. There are certain laws that have been present in virtually all societies since the dawn of civilization, such as bans against murder, theft, etc. Without these, ancient pre-monotheistic societies would never be able to survive since everyone would be killing everyone else.

If societies required monotheism to survive, then how did pagans like the romans, greeks, babylonians, egyptians, mayans, develop such highly sophisticated and more evolved societies than their monotheist counterparts?

A big problem with religion is that it gets used for human ends, as humans always control the destiny of the religion. The nazi and crusades examples highlight the amoral (good and bad) uses that religion has been put to in society through the centuries.

Religion has also been used to convert, with disasterous consequences in Africa and South America, thanks to Christianity.

Religion certainly has no high ground on moral values. In fact, religions are slow to change their outmoded (pork?) and irrelevent (women conceling themselves from men's desires) moral values as society evolves.

What is the point of the 72 Virgins when you go to heaven? I have a rough idea what they are for but what is the main point of them?123625

I don't quite follow. Are you asking me about the functionality of these virgins, or the reason why virgins are mentioned?

I'll answer both. As described, they are your companions, spouses, wives, etc.

Why virgins? The perfection of Islam dictates that it have a motivation for every type of person, including those that are not motivated except through sensory rewards - which is common. However, it should also be noted that Islam also describes a higher level of reward called ridwan. So to put it into context, if you are a straight guy... imagine something better then a bunch of hot girlfriends.

Note, that poetically, 72 is refering to "an abundance" rather then an actual number.

Religion certainly has no high ground on moral values. In fact, religions are slow to change their outmoded (pork?) and irrelevent (women conceling themselves from men's desires) moral values as society evolves.

RationalAtheist

Of course religion has no moral high ground. In fact, it's the people who have the most certainty about their faith who perpetrate the most aggregious violations of human rights and spread their beliefs through violence.

I think this thread needs some humor.

Deconstructing the ten commandments by george carlin.

[QUOTE="123625"]What is the point of the 72 Virgins when you go to heaven? I have a rough idea what they are for but what is the main point of them?rimnet00

I don't quite follow. Are you asking me about the functionality of these virgins, or the reason why virgins are mentioned?

I'll answer both. As described, they are your companions, spouses, wives, etc.

Why virgins? The perfection of Islam dictates that it have a motivation for every type of person, including those that are not motivated except through sensory rewards - which is common. However, it should also be noted that Islam also describes a higher level of reward called ridwan. So to put it into context, if you are a straight guy... imagine something better then a bunch of hot girlfriends.

Note, that poetically, 72 is refering to "an abundance" rather then an actual number.

But in the Muslim life, you have to supress these human desires. I think its true that masturbation is forbidden in Islam.

[QUOTE="dissonantblack"]do you consider yourself higher than other religions?The_Ish

You can't be religious without thinking your religion is superior.

well actully you can, i am a muslim to and in islam we believe that christanity is the continuation of gods message just as islam is, first it was judism then came christianity which showed a more complete religion then came islam that was 100% complete, we respect all christians and jews and every othr religion.

[QUOTE="rimnet00"]

[QUOTE="123625"]What is the point of the 72 Virgins when you go to heaven? I have a rough idea what they are for but what is the main point of them?RationalAtheist

I don't quite follow. Are you asking me about the functionality of these virgins, or the reason why virgins are mentioned?

I'll answer both. As described, they are your companions, spouses, wives, etc.

Why virgins? The perfection of Islam dictates that it have a motivation for every type of person, including those that are not motivated except through sensory rewards - which is common. However, it should also be noted that Islam also describes a higher level of reward called ridwan. So to put it into context, if you are a straight guy... imagine something better then a bunch of hot girlfriends.

Note, that poetically, 72 is refering to "an abundance" rather then an actual number.

But in the Muslim life, you have to supress these human desires. I think its true that masturbation is forbidden in Islam.

You mean fornicating? If a person can't keep their junk in their pants, and they are losing hair over it... they should focus on getting a stable job and look to get married. It's really not that hard.

As for masterbation It shouldn't be done, but if it will keep you from fornicating outside of marriage, then it can be used as a deterant.

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

The crusades did have religious aims. Your not bothering to respond actually says a lot.

It is a fact that nazi propaganda used concepts of God and Christianity as motivating and cohesive forces. I could quote Hilter's religious Christian desires and philosophy from Mein Kampf, or I could point you to one of many dozens of speeches by Hitler and other nazis, expounding the need for Chistian Germans to fight in Gods name for the glory of their nation.

I repeat, what good has religion done?

Your talk of principles is too vague. What principles are so different between easternand western philosophies?

Don't forget that many pre-christian societies contributed greatly to European culture. This culture was repressed for hundreds of years during the middle ages by the catholic church. In the UK, where I am from, we have plenty of evidence supporting ordered societies thousands of years before Christianity came along.

We inherit our moral views from a necessity to co-exist together, rather than being told them. Our morals evolve to suit our society.

RationalAtheist

Wow, this argument is still going strong.

I have to disagree with you mr. rational about the crusades. It is obvious that they had religious aims, but the question is what were those aims? If we're basing our argument solely on pope urban's speech, then yeah one could easily argue that the crusades were launched to drive the infidels from jerusalem. However, you do have to realize that several years before the launch of the first crusade, the seljuk turks (newly converted to islam, hence radical) took over jerusalem and forbade christian pilgrims entry. Now whether this played a major role in the urge of many europeans to join the crusade is dabatable, but it definitely played a role. When you think about it, it was really the role of the knights templar to ensure that pilgrims had a safe route to the holy land, hence supporting the view that the seljuk's actions may have been a catalyst in launching the crusades.

I strongly agree with you on the topic of monotheistic religions (or rather any religions for that matter) contributing significantly to our view of morals and ethics. There are certain laws that have been present in virtually all societies since the dawn of civilization, such as bans against murder, theft, etc. Without these, ancient pre-monotheistic societies would never be able to survive since everyone would be killing everyone else.

If societies required monotheism to survive, then how did pagans like the romans, greeks, babylonians, egyptians, mayans, develop such highly sophisticated and more evolved societies than their monotheist counterparts?

A big problem with religion is that it gets used for human ends, as humans always control the destiny of the religion. The nazi and crusades examples highlight the amoral (good and bad) uses that religion has been put to in society through the centuries.

Religion has also been used to convert, with disasterous consequences in Africa and South America, thanks to Christianity.

Religion certainly has no high ground on moral values. In fact, religions are slow to change their outmoded (pork?) and irrelevent (women conceling themselves from men's desires) moral values as society evolves.

but thats what is so diffrent about islam,it never changes,there is no new islam(though diffrent sects pop up every now and then but the true islam is not forgotten),its the same one sinceour prophet died untill now,even our book the quran is the same,every single letter in it is still the same as the day it was reveled, and on the converting topic, in islam there is no compultion in deen, meaning u can force no one to be a muslim, and if ur gonna tell me but but what about so and so pEople then iwill tell u if u wana know about islam look at the religion it self and u will see the buety of it, becuse there millions if ignorant people doing stupid stuff in the name of islam now adays. And by the way sorry for my spelling

[QUOTE="dissonantblack"]do you consider yourself higher than other religions?The_Ish

You can't be religious without thinking your religion is superior.

You can. I'm a Catholic Christian. I belive that all religions worshiping One God are equall, because it follower pray to the same God.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="dissonantblack"]do you consider yourself higher than other religions?shinian

You can't be religious without thinking your religion is superior.

You can. I'm a Catholic Christian. I belive that all religions worshiping One God are equall, because it follower pray to the same God.

And yet if they don't accept Jesus as their saviour they still go to Hell... How is that equal exactly?

The crusades did have religious aims. Your not bothering to respond actually says a lot.

It is a fact that nazi propaganda used concepts of God and Christianity as motivating and cohesive forces. I could quote Hilter's religious Christian desires and philosophy from Mein Kampf, or I could point you to one of many dozens of speeches by Hitler and other nazis, expounding the need for Chistian Germans to fight in Gods name for the glory of their nation.

I repeat, what good has religion done?

Your talk of principles is too vague. What principles are so different between easternand western philosophies?

Don't forget that many pre-christian societies contributed greatly to European culture. This culture was repressed for hundreds of years during the middle ages by the catholic church. In the UK, where I am from, we have plenty of evidence supporting ordered societies thousands of years before Christianity came along.

We inherit our moral views from a necessity to co-exist together, rather than being told them. Our morals evolve to suit our society.

Im not saying the Crusades had no religious aims? I said that as well s those aims another MAJOR reason for them was to take pressure off other Kingdoms, for example "Byzantium Empire". I said that there aims were not practically that important compared with the scope of other areas of religious conflict, so don't make out i did.

It was said at the time that one of the main reasons was to help other Kingdoms that were under attack by Islamists. You're arguing against this? Read a history book about the situation in the world at that time, extremely turbulent is a bit of an understatement...

Nazi this, Nazi that, was WW2 a religious war? NO

Your saying religion hasn't given us anything? not even religious motivation to do thing, you know lots of creation, discoveries and science came from religious motivation...

"Your talk of principles is too vague"

What do you want, a 100 page document on the differences in the West and Middle East that stem from religion?

I'm not saying society didn't exist before Christianity, but i like to think it helped it out a bit...

Now please stop picking at ever little detail, that does not matter in the wider scope...

[QUOTE="shinian"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="dissonantblack"]do you consider yourself higher than other religions?Zagrius

You can't be religious without thinking your religion is superior.

You can. I'm a Catholic Christian. I belive that all religions worshiping One God are equall, because it follower pray to the same God.

And yet if they don't accept Jesus as their saviour they still go to Hell... How is that equal exactly?

You have an outdated info:P During the 2nd Vatican Council lead by Pope Paul VI it was stated that all people beliving in God and folowing his teachings will be resurected. Then depending on how they lived their lives, on the judgment day, they will go to hell, purgetory or heaven.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="shinian"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="dissonantblack"]do you consider yourself higher than other religions?shinian

You can't be religious without thinking your religion is superior.

You can. I'm a Catholic Christian. I belive that all religions worshiping One God are equall, because it follower pray to the same God.

And yet if they don't accept Jesus as their saviour they still go to Hell... How is that equal exactly?

You have an outdated info:P During the 2nd Vatican Council lead by Pope Paul VI it was stated that all people beliving in God and folowing his teachings will be resurected. Then depending on how they lived their lives, on the judgment day, they will go to hell, purgetory or heaven.

So how much percentage of God do you need to believe in exactly? If you believe in the trinity, then that's a whole 3rd others don't believe in.

The crusades did have religious aims. Your not bothering to respond actually says a lot.

It is a fact that nazi propaganda used concepts of God and Christianity as motivating and cohesive forces. I could quote Hilter's religious Christian desires and philosophy from Mein Kampf, or I could point you to one of many dozens of speeches by Hitler and other nazis, expounding the need for Chistian Germans to fight in Gods name for the glory of their nation.

I repeat, what good has religion done?

Your talk of principles is too vague. What principles are so different between easternand western philosophies?

Don't forget that many pre-christian societies contributed greatly to European culture. This culture was repressed for hundreds of years during the middle ages by the catholic church. In the UK, where I am from, we have plenty of evidence supporting ordered societies thousands of years before Christianity came along.

We inherit our moral views from a necessity to co-exist together, rather than being told them. Our morals evolve to suit our society.

Im not saying the Crusades had no religious aims? I said that as well s those aims another MAJOR reason for them was to take pressure off other Kingdoms, for example "Byzantium Empire". I said that there aims were not practically that important compared with the scope of other areas of religious conflict, so don't make out i did.

It was said at the time that one of the main reasons was to help other Kingdoms that were under attack by Islamists. You're arguing against this? Read a history book about the situation in the world at that time, extremely turbulent is a bit of an understatement...

Nazi this, Nazi that, was WW2 a religious war? NO

Your saying religion hasn't given us anything? not even religious motivation to do thing, you know lots of creation, discoveries and science came from religious motivation...

"Your talk of principles is too vague"

What do you want, a 100 page document on the differences in the West and Middle East that stem from religion?

I'm not saying society didn't exist before Christianity, but i like to think it helped it out a bit...

Now please stop picking at ever little detail, that does not matter in the wider scope...

Darthric and RationalAtheist

Scientific discoveries can not be attributed to religion. Religion suppressed scientific progress for hundreds of years in Europe during the middle ages...

The scientific framework does not consider theology in accepting or rejecting hypotheses. Most scientists are non-religious.

No, I want a couple of differences -does that seem reasonable? I also want examples of the great good you say religion (speifically Christianity) has done to civilisation.

You liking to think that Christian religion helped societies form may be comforting for you, but can be disproven as incorrect. How many examples of pre-christian societies would you care to discuss, Greek, Byzanitine, Roman, Norse, Chinese, Mayan...?

You may call it picking over every detail - I call it refuting your incorrect assertions over the positive value of religion.

You may reject my assertions by saying they don't matter to the "wider scope" - You forget to mention what this wider scope is.

The crusades did have religious aims. Your not bothering to respond actually says a lot.

Uh-huh? And these were. . .?

It is a fact that nazi propaganda used concepts of God and Christianity as motivating and cohesive forces. I could quote Hilter's religious Christian desires and philosophy from Mein Kampf, or I could point you to one of many dozens of speeches by Hitler and other nazis, expounding the need for Chistian Germans to fight in Gods name for the glory of their nation.

And I could give you dozens of quotes straight from Hitler that are as anti-Christian as you can get. In fact, why don't I do that right now. . .

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, **** Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

I repeat, what good has religion done?

The Enlightenment, the Protestant Reformation (that led to the founding of America), the diminishing cannabalism in Southeast Asia, the rise of modern science, the greatest thinkers in history, the catholics who helped save thousands of Jewish lives in the Nazi death camps, and I could go on for days.

Don't forget that many pre-christian societies contributed greatly to European culture. This culture was repressed for hundreds of years during the middle ages by the catholic church. In the UK, where I am from, we have plenty of evidence supporting ordered societies thousands of years before Christianity came along.

Please give the evidence that cultures were suppressed by the church.

Darthric

Scientific discoveries can not be attributed to religion. Religion suppressed scientific progress for hundreds of years in Europe during the middle ages...

RationalAtheist

Oh? And what were these? Please note that the Church never suppressed a round earth, and don't even bring up Galileo. . .

[QUOTE="shinian"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="shinian"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="dissonantblack"]do you consider yourself higher than other religions?Zagrius

You can't be religious without thinking your religion is superior.

You can. I'm a Catholic Christian. I belive that all religions worshiping One God are equall, because it follower pray to the same God.

And yet if they don't accept Jesus as their saviour they still go to Hell... How is that equal exactly?

You have an outdated info:P During the 2nd Vatican Council lead by Pope Paul VI it was stated that all people beliving in God and folowing his teachings will be resurected. Then depending on how they lived their lives, on the judgment day, they will go to hell, purgetory or heaven.

So how much percentage of God do you need to believe in exactly? If you believe in the trinity, then that's a whole 3rd others don't believe in.

You belive in God or not so it would make 100%. The Holy Trinity is still One God displayed in three different characters.

Scientific discoveries can not be attributed to religion. Religion suppressed scientific progress for hundreds of years in Europe during the middle ages...

The scientific framework does not consider theology in accepting or rejecting hypotheses. Most scientists are non-religious.

No, I want a couple of differences -does that seem reasonable? I also want examples of the great good you say religion (speifically Christianity) has done to civilisation.

You liking to think that Christian religion helped societies form may be comforting for you, but can be disproven as incorrect. How many examples of pre-christian societies would you care to discuss, Greek, Byzanitine, Roman, Norse, Chinese, Mayan...?

You may call it picking over every detail - I call it refuting your incorrect assertions over the positive value of religion.

You may reject my assertions by saying they don't matter to the "wider scope" - You forget to mention what this wider scope is.

RationalAtheist

Agree with top, but religious people in the name of religion have also made discoveries, cant be bothered to state

2ndfirst part true, second part not alwaysthe case

3rd statement, yes i think it is unreasonable, you seem detrained to drag this hole thing into so much detail that no one is interested anymore, i think most people would agree the West and middle East are pretty different in many areas, culture, law, ideology etc. You give me the argument that there not.

O and when someone dies and believes there life was for something and die happy in that belief ANY religion achieved something there.

4th. I madeCLEAR the point societies were fine before Christianity, i said Christianity has given SOMETHINGto them, if you disagree with that im pretty sire most people would agree Christianity has given something to the world somewhere down the line, you give an argument it hasn't.

5th.There we are then, you must like arguing

6th.Wider scope as:

*Christianity has giving "something"

*WW2 not religious

*And all the other points i made quite clear (everyone else seem to understand) that only you seem intent on confusing...

Anyway, i know your guna come back with some determination to drag things even more away from the point (which like i said other people seem to get the jist off), but now i cant be bothered, really...

BTW you don't seem very rational to me, all atheist seem determined to prove things religiouswrong, get pretty worked up, why so much, why are religious people so much happier in there understanding, maybe its something as an atheist you will never understand. O and really i threw this together pretty quick so im sure youll have fun finding things to attack.

[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]

I found this article on the internet concerning pork. Is this untrue?

 DISEASES CAUSED BY PORK

Other Diseases :
  Flesh of the pork  is hard to digest and may
lead  to chronic  digestive disturbances. Pimples, boils, cysts are
common  in   pork   eaters. These are some of the  parasites  and  
diseases  found   in  pork and/ or the skin of pigs and certainly  
there  are  many  more.  There is still no means of killing these 
parasites, in  the  tissues, neither has anyone found a method of 
expelling  them,  even   produced  any specific treatment for the 
diseases.

RationalAtheist

It may well be true, but pigs are not the only farmyard animals to get disease. I have already posted this link to a UK government web site showing all animal diseases in this very thread. Does that make all animal flesh "unclean" then?

The last paragraph of your source (please provide the link to show the scientific origins of the text) provides no accurate information, so I suspect the source is biased.

I didn't say that crusades were not fought over land. I said they had religious aims.

I didn't say the nazis were fighting for religion. I said they used religion to inspire the populus to war.

Get it right next time, dude...

RationalAtheist

Religious aims - religious war.

Religion was not the reason Germany went to war. It was economic.

Get it right next time, dood....

I don't quite follow. Are you asking me about the functionality of these virgins, or the reason why virgins are mentioned?

I'll answer both. As described, they are your companions, spouses, wives, etc.

Why virgins? The perfection of Islam dictates that it have a motivation for every type of person, including those that are not motivated except through sensory rewards - which is common. However, it should also be noted that Islam also describes a higher level of reward called ridwan. So to put it into context, if you are a straight guy... imagine something better then a bunch of hot girlfriends.

Note, that poetically, 72 is refering to "an abundance" rather then an actual number.

rimnet00

Would that not make them possessions?

Don't women have to wear those ridiculous headdresses? If so, why?deepdreamer256

I might as well ask an Islam question here.

According to the Koran, are women equal or inferior to men? Please provide Koranic verses to support your answer.

But in the Muslim life, you have to supress these human desires. I think its true that masturbation is forbidden in Islam.

rimnet00

[QUOTE="deepdreamer256"]Don't women have to wear those ridiculous headdresses? If so, why?hagiiiiiiiiii

Sex is in the imagination though...

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="bmoreangel"]Is it true that Islam is a really unfair religion for women?Selrath

Well. I'm pretty sure in the middle eastern ( not every, but some of them ), women aren't allowed to divorce, drive cars, forced to wear those burkas ( spelling?)
Sounds pretty unfair to me..

But I have a question:

Why don't you eat pork?
I have a few muslim friends and they despice pigs, they call it the worst animal in the world and it deserves to burn in hell forever.
What's wrong with pigs? It's not true that they eat their own poop as food and lots of other animals does that too.. They don't live in poop either, it's just mud.
It's really annoying that they say thing such as: How can you eat that crap? while I'm eating pork..

They dont eat pork because pigs are very disgusting animals. If you saw what pigs, especially in the USA, are fed, you might vomit. They are literally fed old, moldy food, dispensed alcohol and all sorts of nasty things. And their bodies dont dispense much of the toxins and chemicals from these foods, so the prepared meat, although cleaned somewhat, is still very unpure.

[QUOTE="rimnet00"]

I don't quite follow. Are you asking me about the functionality of these virgins, or the reason why virgins are mentioned?

I'll answer both. As described, they are your companions, spouses, wives, etc.

Why virgins? The perfection of Islam dictates that it have a motivation for every type of person, including those that are not motivated except through sensory rewards - which is common. However, it should also be noted that Islam also describes a higher level of reward called ridwan. So to put it into context, if you are a straight guy... imagine something better then a bunch of hot girlfriends.

Note, that poetically, 72 is refering to "an abundance" rather then an actual number.

LJS9502_basic

Would that not make them possessions?

Yes. However, these arn't souls like you and me, but creations made for the soul purpose of pleasing the rewarded.

They dont eat pork because pigs are very disgusting animals. If you saw what pigs, especially in the USA, are fed, you might vomit. They are literally fed old, moldy food, dispensed alcohol and all sorts of nasty things. And their bodies dont dispense much of the toxins and chemicals from these foods, so the prepared meat, although cleaned somewhat, is still very unpure.

hillelslovak

Do you have any links? Preferably to an agraculture site?

I might as well ask an Islam question here.

According to the Koran, are women equal or inferior to men? Please provide Koranic verses to support your answer.

Dracargen

Men are women are equal as spiritual beings in the sight of God.

However, Islamic law (Divinely Revealed Law) itself differentiates between them based on gender. That doesn't imply that either of them is better than the other. What it means is that God has created two genders for a reason, and that reason is known and actualized when each gender obeys its laws.

"Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOUARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........." Qur'an 3:195

"As for those who lead a righteous life, MALE OR FEMALE. while believing, t hey enter Paradise; without the slightest injustice" Qur'an 4:124

"The believing men and women are supportive and protective friends unto each other. They enjoin the right, forbid the wrong, establish regular prayer, pay the poor due, and are dutifully obedient to God and His Messenger. They will receive the Mercy of God. Surely, God is Almighty, Wise." Qur'an 9:75

"Verily, the Muslims, men and women, the believers, men and women, the men and the women who are obedient (to Allah), the men and women who are truthful, the men and the women who are patient, the men and the women who are humble (before their Lord Allah), the men and the women who give alms (i.e. Zakat ), the men and women who fast (within and without Ramadan), the men and women who guard their chastity and the men and women who remember Allah much with their hearts and tongues, Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward (i.e. Paradise)." Quran 33:35

[QUOTE="hillelslovak"]

They dont eat pork because pigs are very disgusting animals. If you saw what pigs, especially in the USA, are fed, you might vomit. They are literally fed old, moldy food, dispensed alcohol and all sorts of nasty things. And their bodies dont dispense much of the toxins and chemicals from these foods, so the prepared meat, although cleaned somewhat, is still very unpure.

Dracargen

Do you have any links? Preferably to an agraculture site?

The only thing you need to do is watch the pig farm episode of dirty jobs on discovery channel.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="dissonantblack"]do you consider yourself higher than other religions?Ichigo_Ban_Kai

You can't be religious without thinking your religion is superior.

well actully you can, i am a muslim to and in islam we believe that christanity is the continuation of gods message just as islam is, first it was judism then came christianity which showed a more complete religion then came islam that was 100% complete, we respect all christians and jews and every othr religion.

So you believe that the Bible and the Torah are equal to the Qu'ran?

So you believe that the Bible and the Torah are equal to the Qu'ran?

The_Ish

Nope, not equal...but we still have to respect them.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="deepdreamer256"]Don't women have to wear those ridiculous headdresses? If so, why?LJS9502_basic

Sex is in the imagination though...

What's a falafel?-Makaveli-

have you ever been on a plane and people looked at you weird? im not trying to be racist its just people are stupid usually.Paper_Knife

I look white...so no?