Are Christians being persecuted in America?

This has probably been posted already, but it goes to show how obviously nonsensical this christian persecution crap is:

DraugenCP

No it hasn't, and i wish i had the version where the mouth moves somewhere.

Seeing as how you can't even get in the white house unless you're Christian, hell no...Toriko42

More than one President we've had was not a Christian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_affiliations_of_United_States_Presidents

[QUOTE="Toriko42"]Seeing as how you can't even get in the white house unless you're Christian, hell no...Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Toriko42"]Seeing as how you can't even get in the white house unless you're Christian, hell no...Snipes_2

The founding fathers were mainly christian, there are even Biblical quotes on some of our government courthouses and structures. I never thought I would have to prove to anyone that the US was once a christian nation lmao....that is not even my point, if you wish to argue about whether the US was christian or not, make a thread about it. I'm not here to debate that.

my point is only further proven that the OP is correct, christian beliefs are being persecuted as we speak. Again, one can see that in this thread. It is not taught in schools anymore, you have to go to a special religious school to learn about it. In the 1800's schools had morning prayers. That doesn't happen anymore obviously. With the whole vatican sex abuse thing, it's only going to become more prominent that christianity is faulty. what else do I need to say here....

mohfrontline

Listen to yourself man. Ever heard of freedom of religion? Anyone is allowed to believe want they want, and by teaching christianity in school as fact would be persecuting every other religion. This is exactly why everyone views christianity as a joke now a days. If you can't have 'your' way, then your being 'persecuted'. What about the musim religion? Buddhism? jewish? even mormon or catholic or protestant? Which one of christianity would you teach nationally and not have it be persecuting the others? Making it so that christian is mandatory to be taught if fascism, but America was founded on freedom, as in freedom to believe whatever religion you want. Evolution is taught in schools because by learning how it works, we're now able to find new medical advances and discoveries like antibiotics, which you know, is the point of science.

And America does teach christianity nationally already, its called 'church'. No one is saying you can't go to church, nor is anyone trying to shut down churches. Anyone is free to learn about christianity if they want. I don't get why it even needs to be in school when there's already church and bible study.

I don't think they're being persecuted, but it does seem like you can insult their faith with impunity. You say the same demeaning things about other faiths such as judaism, islam, budhism, etc. and you may be labelled a biggot. I don't agree with a lot of christianity, but I don't hate them like some of you guys on this site.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Toriko42"]Seeing as how you can't even get in the white house unless you're Christian, hell no...PannicAtack

[QUOTE="mohfrontline"]

The founding fathers were mainly christian, there are even Biblical quotes on some of our government courthouses and structures. I never thought I would have to prove to anyone that the US was once a christian nation lmao....that is not even my point, if you wish to argue about whether the US was christian or not, make a thread about it. I'm not here to debate that.

my point is only further proven that the OP is correct, christian beliefs are being persecuted as we speak. Again, one can see that in this thread. It is not taught in schools anymore, you have to go to a special religious school to learn about it. In the 1800's schools had morning prayers. That doesn't happen anymore obviously. With the whole vatican sex abuse thing, it's only going to become more prominent that christianity is faulty. what else do I need to say here....

links136

Listen to yourself man. Ever heard of freedom of religion? Anyone is allowed to believe want they want, and by teaching christianity in school as fact would be persecuting every other religion. This is exactly why everyone views christianity as a joke now a days. If you can't have 'your' way, then your being 'persecuted'. What about the musim religion? Buddhism? jewish? even mormon or catholic or protestant? Which one of christianity would you teach nationally and not have it be persecuting the others? Making it so that christian is mandatory to be taught if fascism, but America was founded on freedom, as in freedom to believe whatever religion you want. Evolution is taught in schools because by learning how it works, we're now able to find new medical advances and discoveries like antibiotics, which you know, is the point of science.

And America does teach christianity nationally already, its called 'church'. No one is saying you can't go to church, nor is anyone trying to shut down churches. Anyone is free to learn about christianity if they want. I don't get why it even needs to be in school when there's already church and bible study.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] http://www.christianadc.org/resources/seven-reasons-campaign/62-reason-1 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1959477/posts He can call himself whatever he wants, I don't believe he's a Christian though. Snipes_2

There are various forms of Christianity. You know that right?

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"] And who are you to judge that? Theokhoth is a gay He's also a Christian. Who are you to say that he isn't?PannicAtack

There are various forms of Christianity. You know that right?

wstfld

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] I wonder how he reconciles Leviticus. I would love to hear that...from an intellectual standpoint. sonicare

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"] 1. "No True Scotsman" 2. The first link there had as reasons 4 and 5 "he supports homosexuality" and "he's pro-choice." What a load of baloney.wstfld

There are various forms of Christianity. You know that right?

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"] Who?PannicAtack

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="sonicare"] I could be wrong, but I think it's a book of the bible.sonicare

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"] And who are you to judge that? Theokhoth is a gay He's also a Christian. Who are you to say that he isn't?Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="wstfld"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] No it's not. Abortion and Homosexuality are definitely not Christian ideals. You are not supposed to support them. Snipes_2

There are various forms of Christianity. You know that right?

Non-Denominational. Same as W.

[QUOTE="links136"]

[QUOTE="mohfrontline"]

The founding fathers were mainly christian, there are even Biblical quotes on some of our government courthouses and structures. I never thought I would have to prove to anyone that the US was once a christian nation lmao....that is not even my point, if you wish to argue about whether the US was christian or not, make a thread about it. I'm not here to debate that.

my point is only further proven that the OP is correct, christian beliefs are being persecuted as we speak. Again, one can see that in this thread. It is not taught in schools anymore, you have to go to a special religious school to learn about it. In the 1800's schools had morning prayers. That doesn't happen anymore obviously. With the whole vatican sex abuse thing, it's only going to become more prominent that christianity is faulty. what else do I need to say here....

wstfld

Listen to yourself man. Ever heard of freedom of religion? Anyone is allowed to believe want they want, and by teaching christianity in school as fact would be persecuting every other religion. This is exactly why everyone views christianity as a joke now a days. If you can't have 'your' way, then your being 'persecuted'. What about the musim religion? Buddhism? jewish? even mormon or catholic or protestant? Which one of christianity would you teach nationally and not have it be persecuting the others? Making it so that christian is mandatory to be taught if fascism, but America was founded on freedom, as in freedom to believe whatever religion you want. Evolution is taught in schools because by learning how it works, we're now able to find new medical advances and discoveries like antibiotics, which you know, is the point of science.

And America does teach christianity nationally already, its called 'church'. No one is saying you can't go to church, nor is anyone trying to shut down churches. Anyone is free to learn about christianity if they want. I don't get why it even needs to be in school when there's already church and bible study.

huh?

[QUOTE="wstfld"][QUOTE="links136"]

Listen to yourself man. Ever heard of freedom of religion? Anyone is allowed to believe want they want, and by teaching christianity in school as fact would be persecuting every other religion. This is exactly why everyone views christianity as a joke now a days. If you can't have 'your' way, then your being 'persecuted'. What about the musim religion? Buddhism? jewish? even mormon or catholic or protestant? Which one of christianity would you teach nationally and not have it be persecuting the others? Making it so that christian is mandatory to be taught if fascism, but America was founded on freedom, as in freedom to believe whatever religion you want. Evolution is taught in schools because by learning how it works, we're now able to find new medical advances and discoveries like antibiotics, which you know, is the point of science.

And America does teach christianity nationally already, its called 'church'. No one is saying you can't go to church, nor is anyone trying to shut down churches. Anyone is free to learn about christianity if they want. I don't get why it even needs to be in school when there's already church and bible study.

links136

huh?

http://silencingchristians.com/

No, it's quite obvious it's the other way around.

[QUOTE="SunofVich"]

Athiests are being persecuted way more then Christians are.

mohfrontline

They teach those ideas in SCIENCE. It's science, not theology...

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="wstfld"]

There are various forms of Christianity. You know that right?

wstfld

Non-Denominational. Same as W.

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)Snipes_2

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)Snipes_2

[QUOTE="wstfld"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Yes, Tell me, what form of Christianity does Obama belong to?Snipes_2

Non-Denominational. Same as W.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] No it's not. Abortion and Homosexuality are definitely not Christian ideals. You are not supposed to support them. Snipes_2

What about certain teachings such as stoning homosexuals?

Or the teaching about killing disobedient children?

And if to that you will answer that Jesus changed all that, I dont remember him saying anything about homosexuality similar to Leviticus.

In the end, you too, pick and choose.

Of course not. Americans are simply doing what they were supposed to do in the first place: empowering all beliefs to an equal level.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"] And who are you to judge that? Theokhoth is a gay He's also a Christian. Who are you to say that he isn't?Teenaged

What about certain teachings such as stoning homosexuals?

Or the teaching about killing disobedient children?

And if to that you will answer that Jesus changed all that, I dont remember him saying anything about homosexuality similar to Leviticus.

In the end, you too, pick and choose.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Have you Read the Bible? IT doesn't exactly support Homosexuality. Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV) 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV). Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)Snipes_2

What about certain teachings such as stoning homosexuals?

Or the teaching about killing disobedient children?

And if to that you will answer that Jesus changed all that, I dont remember him saying anything about homosexuality similar to Leviticus.

In the end, you too, pick and choose.

And no I am not certain about the exact description or context of the teaching about disobedient children. It either entailed death or some very severe and cruel punishment; not sure.

@moh: I have a few notes regarding the religious education in early American public schools. First, public schools were created in the early part of the 1800s to form an "American Identity". Subjects that were taught in these schools included math, reading, history. Also thrown in was some religious education. But why? It was a large part of a society that really didn't have a unifying identity other than America but it wasn't clear what America was. By having religious ideas in schools and taught to children while having them learn they were being "Americanized". This religious identity was largely protestant, though Catholics and other sects of Christianity existed within America.

Second, these schools were controlled by "Boards". These Boards would decide who would teach and what all would be taught in the schools. Since America was largely Protestant, Protestant Christianity was introduced in the schools. This wasn't much of a problem until Catholics from Ireland and Germany started arriving in America. Eventually separate schools for Catholics and Protestants developed, each having the same subjects, just different religious teachings. The schools split because of Catholics crying "persecution", because they were told that their beliefs were wrong and would be physically harassed until they succumbed to the Protestant teachings.

Third, we start seeing more and more of science as the modernization of America starts. Here is where I'm not as knowledgeable about early American education as I would like to be, but following the Industrial Revolution in the late 1880s and into the 1900s we start seeing a lessening of religious instruction in schools. I would wager that in the Cold War, at least the early part of it, that religion played a larger role than it had been previously because of the fight against the godless Communists. Eventually religion is phased out of schools except in certain religious education classes. These usually teach Judaism and Islam as well as the origin of Christianity and its role in the development of the Western World.

I think we see this shift from public to private because of a gradual emphasis on private faith and worshiping on ones own. Not to mention a prevalence of Church and Secondary religious institutions to give an education as well as a religious education. As public schools became more secular private schools (Parochial schools) played a larger role on religious education.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Have you read the Bible?

What about certain teachings such as stoning homosexuals?

Or the teaching about killing disobedient children?

And if to that you will answer that Jesus changed all that, I dont remember him saying anything about homosexuality similar to Leviticus.

In the end, you too, pick and choose.

Teenaged

And no I am not certain about the exact description or context of the teaching about disobedient children. It either entailed death or some very severe and cruel punishment; not sure.

Christians should ask Jews what being persecuted really means... JustPlainLucas

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Uh, Actually I have. I know for a fact that Homosexuality is not condoned. Stoning Homosexuals and Adulterers was the Norm back then, Times have changed and it is not socially acceptable to do that anymore. The Pharisees were the ones that actually stoned adulterers, Can you post where it says that you should kill Disobedient Children? Could it possibly be referring to the Children of God and sin? Disobeying the Ten Commandments. Snipes_2

And no I am not certain about the exact description or context of the teaching about disobedient children. It either entailed death or some very severe and cruel punishment; not sure.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="wstfld"]

Non-Denominational. Same as W.

wstfld

Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Have you Read the Bible? IT doesn't exactly support Homosexuality. Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV) 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV). Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)Snipes_2

What about certain teachings such as stoning homosexuals?

Or the teaching about killing disobedient children?

And if to that you will answer that Jesus changed all that, I dont remember him saying anything about homosexuality similar to Leviticus.

In the end, you too, pick and choose.

It's from Deuteronomy 21:18-21:

If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.

Also, since we're talking about homosexuality not being condoned which inevitably brings up leviticus, I thought I'd post some more Leviticus laws that God laid down:

Leviticus 9-12: These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Wow, notice how God uses the SAME EXACT WORDING for banning the eating of shellfish as he does with homosexuality? He calls homosexual intercourse "an abomination" but also calls shellfish "an abomination". So either eating at Red Lobster is an affront to God and will result in you going to straight to Hell when you die, or God actually doesn't care that much about homosexuality and just has a tendancy for hyperbole.

But hey, times have changed right? Oh but wait, God is infalliable which is why all the stuff about homosexuality still stands. Oh but wait that would mean all this other stuff still stands too...hmm...

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

Snipes_2

So in the end no you havent answered to me.

If we dont stone people for their sins (it doesnt matter how many people have been stoned in actuality - it matters that the Bible preaches it in the OT) because times have changed, then why should we not accept homosexuality using the same rationale? Times have changed...