Are teachers really under payed?

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]based on the results they are getting...No.....not at all...rawsavon

from my view the current system costs way too damn much, if you want to cut out a lot of the non-teaching staff and pay the teachers more, i would be for that, and if you wanted to make their pay performance based even better. from where i stand the cost is not worth the current good.

Some time ago I would've said they get overpaid because they get the summer off in the U.S. But ... after my wife became a teacher I'm shocked by how much work is brought home, day after day. The amount of lesson plans developed and so on. It way lot of overtime. So if you look at all those hours (including the OT) then yes teachers are grossly underpaid.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

kuraimen

Techers get paid all year round here in the UK and get paid preperation time (though it's far from enough).markop2003

I think it's worth clarifying that while we receive our wages every month, we are only paid for the 195 days we are in school.

The problem is that we teachers probably do get a pretty decent wage for the 38 weeks of the year we do have to work, but mortgages, food and so on still have to be paid for during the other 14 as well (as well as always being stuck with more expensive holidays)!

But we do have work well beyond our contractual hours (that's 1265, sports fans) to actually get everything done - In an ideal world we'd probably have 3 days for actual teaching and 2 for preparing and assessing, but it's doubtful the system could afford it. We're paid reasonably well, but undervalued by so many parts of society.

[QUOTE="markop2003"]

Techers get paid all year round here in the UK and get paid preperation time (though it's far from enough).LordRork

I think it's worth clarifying that while we receive our wages every month, we are only paid for the 195 days we are in school.

The problem is that we teachers probably do get a pretty decent wage for the 38 weeks of the year we do have to work, but mortgages, food and so on still have to be paid for during the other 14 as well (as well as always being stuck with more expensive holidays)!

But we do have work well beyond our contractual hours (that's 1265, sports fans) to actually get everything done - In an ideal world we'd probably have 3 days for actual teaching and 2 for preparing and assessing, but it's doubtful the system could afford it. We're paid reasonably well, but undervalued by so many parts of society.

No, they are not. It only requires a bachelor's degree to be a teacher, and their salary is pretty fair for their level of education and considering they work 10 months a year. Teacher's that strike annoy me, you knew the salary of the career you were gettting into, If you want more money you should of chosen a batter career path, end of story.

Teachers are usually graduates from the lower half of the graduating class who were not good enough to becomes engineers, pharmacists, nurses, professors, etc. They did not do as well in university and get what they deserve. If you want the same salary as the nurse then you should of worked as hard as the nursing student.

Its a pretty cushy job, and often pays pretty well, my geography teacher had a porshe.

can't not mention this

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

YellowOneKinobi

Tell me how much teacher's get paid and I'll tell you if they're underpaid or not.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Maybe because they are people that care about their work and the people they are responsible for. They know that if salaries go up, best prepared people will be available for education so their complain is looking for better conditions for people with such a big responsibility and for a better society overall.kuraimen

As a side note: I still hold to my original point that they know what the pay scale is in their area prior to going into the profession. Like any other job/career, there is nothing wrong with trying to make more, but there is something about the way teachers go about it that irks me (broad brush, I know). They act as if they are shocked to find out what they earn or that somehow they were making more and suddenly have their base pay slashed. I also don't see why teachers earn more money via conventional means (such as teaching summer school or coaching one of the sports or academic clubs).

Teachers have one of the most important jobs in existence and receive a fraction of the salary received by, say, the football players they teach. So yes, they are drastically underpaid.Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Teachers have one of the most important jobs in existence and receive a fraction of the salary received by, say, the football players they teach. So yes, they are drastically underpaid.YellowOneKinobi

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Teachers have one of the most important jobs in existence and receive a fraction of the salary received by, say, the football players they teach. So yes, they are drastically underpaid.Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] I don't know why people always introduce professional athletes into these conversations. I don't think anybody believes that a ball player's job is more important than a teachers, and that is not why they make millions. They make millions because they perform tasks that millions of people pay to see/watch. I certainly appreciate the significance of the role of teachers. But like I asked another poster, how much should teachers make? How would you arrive at/justify that number?YellowOneKinobi

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] I don't know why people always introduce professional athletes into these conversations. I don't think anybody believes that a ball player's job is more important than a teachers, and that is not why they make millions. They make millions because they perform tasks that millions of people pay to see/watch. I certainly appreciate the significance of the role of teachers. But like I asked another poster, how much should teachers make? How would you arrive at/justify that number?YellowOneKinobi

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] Millions of people don't pay to go to school? Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] How many public school teachers are there in the United States compared to pro athletes?YellowOneKinobi

Surely you don't think there's this guy with a million bucks deciding how much to give between teachers and athletes?

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] How is that relevant? I'd argue that more people pay to go to school (and pay more to go to school) than to watch pro athletes.Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] How is that relevant? Surely you jest. If you have X dollars, you don't see the difference between splitting it up between 100 people vs 1,000 people? YellowOneKinobi

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] This is based on the assumption that the same amount of money is allocated to pro athletes and teachers. Also based on the assumption that this amount of money is static. Theokhoth

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]More to do with students and parents IMO (see value placed on education)Omni-Slash

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]based on the results they are getting...No.....not at all...surrealnumber5

If anything, I would be prone to taking the student's side (if I were to take any side). I just know what it is like to be on both sides is all

1. A great student can succeed despite a terrible teacher (they can learn on their own) A great teacher cannot succeed with terrible students ...students are more important to the equation 2. Both for myself and from talking to other teachers, the best students are often those that are first generation immigrants -best =/= highest scoring -they come from families that value education and view it as a privilege and not a right...they know what it is like to not have itrawsavon

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] 1. A great student can succeed despite a terrible teacher (they can learn on their own) A great teacher cannot succeed with terrible students ...students are more important to the equation 2. Both for myself and from talking to other teachers, the best students are often those that are first generation immigrants -best =/= highest scoring -they come from families that value education and view it as a privilege and not a right...they know what it is like to not have itOmni-Slash

I agree that a teacher's job is to provide the material, set the table...w/e My assertion was that America's issues with education have little to do with a change in educators (did they suddenly get worse, did the standards to become a teacher become easier, are there less classes for teachers to take, is there less to learn...NO is the answer to all those questions...it is the opposite). -there have always been great teachers, bad teachers, and everything in between What has changed is people's attitudes about education...how much they value it, the effort they put forth, etcrawsavon

I think it depends on the teacher. I had some really, really great teachers that I would say are underpaid for their service, but for every one of them there were two or three really, really horrible teachers that offer nothing of value and I feel are therefore overpaid.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Teachers have one of the most important jobs in existence and receive a fraction of the salary received by, say, the football players they teach. So yes, they are drastically underpaid.Theokhoth

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]I agree that a teacher's job is to provide the material, set the table...w/e My assertion was that America's issues with education have little to do with a change in educators (did they suddenly get worse, did the standards to become a teacher become easier, are there less classes for teachers to take, is there less to learn...NO is the answer to all those questions...it is the opposite). -there have always been great teachers, bad teachers, and everything in between What has changed is people's attitudes about education...how much they value it, the effort they put forth, etcOmni-Slash

I don't believe they are in Canada.

My 0.02:

Education in the U.S. is not up to par with the rest of the world because of our (collective) attitude towards education. This is highly influenced by the family/home life of kids of all ages. The formula for success is a lot more complicated than what people make it out to be - for a child to do well in school, there have to be many, many things in place. You can't simply throw money at the problem and expect it to go away.

I don't think so, but I don't think very many are underpaid at all, mostly overpaid. In a perfect world, though, I might just say teachers should be hired and paid as some of the most important people in our society. hensothor

Don't take this the wrong way, but have you ever gone through the certification process to become a teacher? Do you know people in college that are pushed through? I am NOT saying that education is a difficult degree. But I am saying that it is much more difficult to become a teacher now...that they are better educated and prepared. This does not mean that there are not bad ones (there are). But it does mean that the bad ones today are better than the bad ones back in the day. So teachers are becoming more educated (both in how to teach and in their subject) and better prepared. But the education system is getting worse... I am left to reason that the only reason for this could be students and their families (though most people do not want to admit that)rawsavon

My 0.02:

Education in the U.S. is not up to par with the rest of the world because of our (collective) attitude towards education. This is highly influenced by the family/home life of kids of all ages. The formula for success is a lot more complicated than what people make it out to be - for a child to do well in school, there have to be many, many things in place. You can't simply throw money at the problem and expect it to go away.

entropyecho

rawsavon

[QUOTE="hensothor"]I don't think so, but I don't think very many are underpaid at all, mostly overpaid. In a perfect world, though, I might just say teachers should be hired and paid as some of the most important people in our society. surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="hensothor"]I don't think so, but I don't think very many are underpaid at all, mostly overpaid. In a perfect world, though, I might just say teachers should be hired and paid as some of the most important people in our society. hensothor

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]Don't take this the wrong way, but have you ever gone through the certification process to become a teacher? Do you know people in college that are pushed through? I am NOT saying that education is a difficult degree. But I am saying that it is much more difficult to become a teacher now...that they are better educated and prepared. This does not mean that there are not bad ones (there are). But it does mean that the bad ones today are better than the bad ones back in the day. So teachers are becoming more educated (both in how to teach and in their subject) and better prepared. But the education system is getting worse... I am left to reason that the only reason for this could be students and their families (though most people do not want to admit that)Omni-Slash

When you make less than $40k a year to deal with some of these kids all day and also teaching the next generation of future Presidents, garbage men, Congressman, plumbers, doctors, construction workers, lawyers, dmv workers, and the idiots on Wall Street, it really is too low and they should get more credit and more pay. Just look how this last generation turned out. We have a debt that would make most people have a heart attack, no jobs in many places, an economy that completely sucks, and a bunch of people bit#%ing and moaning about things that don't really matter. If they would've just paid the teachers more we'd all have mansions and condos on the beach. Well, at least a job that paid pretty well and gas under $2 a gallon.

You do realize that you have to have a a degree or a minor + some classes in that subject area, right? (at least in every state I know of) -so a math or english teacher will have that degree (or a couple classes short) + an education degreerawsavon

When you make less than $40k a year to deal with some of these kids all day and also teaching the next generation of future Presidents, garbage men, Congressman, plumbers, doctors, construction workers, lawyers, dmv workers, and the idiots on Wall Street, it really is too low and they should get more credit and more pay. Just look how this last generation turned out. We have a debt that would make most people have a heart attack, no jobs in many places, an economy that completely sucks, and a bunch of people bit#%ing and moaning about things that don't really matter. If they would've just paid the teachers more we'd all have mansions and condos on the beach. Well, at least a job that paid pretty well and gas under $2 a gallon.

Sunfyre7896

A question, though, is there a difference between the word "payed" and "paid"? Or is it just alternate spellings of the same word?

considering what they must deal with, prep time, check homeworks and being directly in charge of 10-70 people... I think that is being underpaid....curono

makes you wonder. who at their current job thinks that they are overpaid?comp_atkins