Completely against. It defies logic, human rights and "humanity." If we kill someone for a crime, we are lowering not only ourselves, but our entire community to the level of that criminal and have to live with their blood on our hands. Psychopathy, paedophilia and other causes for criminal actions are the result of mental illness, and the current structure of the legal system does not try or execute "mentally ill" criminals.
Our society needs the means to better detect and treat mental illness, before it is allowed to manifest and cause people to snap and commit violent crimes. We may not have the ability to detect these things now, but we can't just extinguish life because we wish vengeance for our lost relatives/friends. "Justice is harmony. Revenge is just making yourself feel better" (Rachel Dawes, Batman Begins).
I lose respect for anyone who supports the death penalty. It goes completely against the advancement of human society.
are you for or against the death penalty **DEBATE**
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Well if you're going to quote batman, I might as well drop this happy little gem.Completely against. It defies logic, human rights and "humanity." If we kill someone for a crime, we are lowering not only ourselves, but our entire community to the level of that criminal and have to live with their blood on our hands. Psychopathy, paedophilia and other causes for criminal actions are the result of mental illness, and the current structure of the legal system does not try or execute "mentally ill" criminals.
Our society needs the means to better detect and treat mental illness, before it is allowed to manifest and cause people to snap and commit violent crimes. We may not have the ability to detect these things now, but we can't just extinguish life because we wish vengeance for our lost relatives/friends. "Justice is harmony. Revenge is just making yourself feel better" (Rachel Dawes, Batman Begins).
I lose respect for anyone who supports the death penalty. It goes completely against the advancement of human society.foxhound_fox
"all it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy." (Joker, The Dark Knight).
Attempting to predict the human psyche is an absolutely futile effort if you also attempt to retain freedom and privacy. Not to mention there are a lot of people who are beyond rehab. Do we as a civilized society allow such a cruel person to live, with the given potential to escape or outlive their punishment, or do we spare ourselves the inhumanity of potential future crimes?
Not every violent offender is a psychotic though. If I went and murdered my entire family right now in cold blood the court would have to consider my rather unstable mental health history but I never go into psychosis anymore, I'm very stable aside from a few habits I have that only effect me. I am very aware of everything going on in my life and even though I am a psychotic I feel like rehabilitation and consideration of my mental ailments wouldn't be worth it. Death would be preferable to being stuck in the psychward again or going to a place for the criminally insane. I guess what I'm trying to say is the flaw with your argument (and it may only apply to me) is that we can't say o this one is sick he needs to be considered and blah blah blah, maybe death isn't the answer for these offenders but we can't let mental health be the reason to go easy on some people, besides some people are just naturally blind to what Western society considers wrong and right. I don't consider a human's primal instinct to kill as a sickness, I see it as someone not accepting the way society is today. Some of us are as violent as they come.Tiefster
I understand... my point is, we can't just lock people away (whether in jail or asylums) to keep them from society; we need to assess and treat what caused them to snap and give them another chance at becoming part of society again (and more importantly, prevent these things from happening in the first place). We can't just lock people away forever and forget about them. Jail is about rehabilitation and keeping society safe from violent offenders. I've always been a purporter of the concept of second chances... human's make mistakes, and should be given the opportunity to fix the problems we've caused (even if they aren't fixable).
Killing someone because they did something "bad" is not an ethic I can support... it just does not logically compute with my psyche. The human mind is a terribly complex thing that has many facets and faces... and it is impossible to fully understand "why" people do some of these things in the first place.
Why do we need to kill? Seriously, no one has ever escaped from a maximum security prison in America, its cheaper to keep them alive. And we don't give in to sadistic nature.It should totally be legal. Kill the scum. Seriously, I don't understand why some people are so against this. If you kill someone, You get killed back. Fair is fair.
MisterCyotie
[QUOTE="MisterCyotie"]Why do we need to kill? Seriously, no one has ever escaped from a maximum security prison in America, its cheaper to keep them alive. And we don't give in to sadistic nature.It should totally be legal. Kill the scum. Seriously, I don't understand why some people are so against this. If you kill someone, You get killed back. Fair is fair.
Sajo7
Revenge is sweet. :)
Well if you're going to quote batman, I might as well drop this happy little gem."all it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy." (Joker, The Dark Knight).
Attempting to predict the human psyche is an absolutely futile effort if you also attempt to retain freedom and privacy. Not to mention there are a lot of people who are beyond rehab. Do we as a civilized society allow such a cruel person to live, with the given potential to escape or outlive their punishment, or do we spare ourselves the inhumanity of potential future crimes?Vaasman
I think it is unfortunate you chose to quote the Joker to support your point. Both Batman and Gotham lock him away in Arkham instead of killing him because he is insane. He is a threat to himself and everyone around him, and yet he is kept alive and frequently escapes.
[QUOTE="Vaasman"]Well if you're going to quote batman, I might as well drop this happy little gem.
"all it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy." (Joker, The Dark Knight).
Attempting to predict the human psyche is an absolutely futile effort if you also attempt to retain freedom and privacy. Not to mention there are a lot of people who are beyond rehab. Do we as a civilized society allow such a cruel person to live, with the given potential to escape or outlive their punishment, or do we spare ourselves the inhumanity of potential future crimes?foxhound_fox
I think it is unfortunate you chose to quote the Joker to support your point. Both Batman and Gotham lock him away in Arkham instead of killing him because he is insane. He is a threat to himself and everyone around him, and yet he is kept alive and frequently escapes. Enough with the Batman logic. :P REAL criminals don't escape like that, and the Joker only does it so he can entertain us.
[QUOTE="Vaasman"]Well if you're going to quote batman, I might as well drop this happy little gem.
"all it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy." (Joker, The Dark Knight).
Attempting to predict the human psyche is an absolutely futile effort if you also attempt to retain freedom and privacy. Not to mention there are a lot of people who are beyond rehab. Do we as a civilized society allow such a cruel person to live, with the given potential to escape or outlive their punishment, or do we spare ourselves the inhumanity of potential future crimes?foxhound_fox
I think it is unfortunate you chose to quote the Joker to support your point. Both Batman and Gotham lock him away in Arkham instead of killing him because he is insane. He is a threat to himself and everyone around him, and yet he is kept alive and frequently escapes.You're right, we should model our system off gotham. Don't kill the worst of the worst, lock them in jail so they can break out, and commit continued destruction and anarchy. That seems to work for Gotham, I mean that city is just doing so great, all the time!
This isn't a fairytale world. Some people are beyond help, beyond rehabilitation, and beyond the forgiveness of a just and moral society. I'm not saying lets just kill every inmate, but the option should always be available for those who prove they would commit unspeakable horrors.
Unless you want microchips emplanted in your brain, I don't think attempting to predict instability is a sound alternative. It's idealistic, but not realistic.
This isn't a fairytale world. Some people are beyond help, beyond rehabilitation, and beyond the forgiveness of a just and moral society. Vaasman
There are a lot of people who would disagree with you here, especially me. No human being should be beyond help, rehabilitation or forgiveness... especially in a just and moral society. We aren't living in the time of Hammurabi any more. It is 2010 and we have been priding ourselves as "advanced" for the past couple centuries.
Against it.
You always run the risk of wrongfully convicting, and killing, an innocent person. That alone is enough to keep it from ever being used as punishment for any crime.
[QUOTE="Vaasman"]This isn't a fairytale world. Some people are beyond help, beyond rehabilitation, and beyond the forgiveness of a just and moral society. foxhound_fox
There are a lot of people who would disagree with you here, especially me. No human being should be beyond help, rehabilitation or forgiveness... especially in a just and moral society. We aren't living in the time of Hammurabi any more. It is 2010 and we have been priding ourselves as "advanced" for the past couple centuries. Again, you're being idealistic, but not realistic. How do you expect to advance as a society when we continue to waste millions, if not billions, in taxpayer dollars providing for those who are truly evil, unjust, and unmoral, year after year? And yes, these people exist. Those truly beyond any form of help that wouldn't also limit their freedom prior to incarceration. Scientifically we still aren't sure why, whether it's genetic or truly brought on by an unjust existence, but some people are just bad.
All I'm saying is, if that taxpayer money we use to keep pedophile rapists and serial killers around all the time,were redistributed to science and medical fields, think how much we would improve the lives of just andmoral citizens?
Cold? Inhumane? You could say that, but if concerning myself with what those who will actually advance our society, while excluding degenerates whoare detrimental and always will be, is inhumane, then so be it.
It's realistic.
Edit: If there were really some moral and legitimate way to truly predict or cure mental illness and inhumanity, then I'd be for that.
But there isn't, and there never will be.
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
[QUOTE="Vaasman"]This isn't a fairytale world. Some people are beyond help, beyond rehabilitation, and beyond the forgiveness of a just and moral society. Vaasman
There are a lot of people who would disagree with you here, especially me. No human being should be beyond help, rehabilitation or forgiveness... especially in a just and moral society. We aren't living in the time of Hammurabi any more. It is 2010 and we have been priding ourselves as "advanced" for the past couple centuries. Again, you're being idealistic, but not realistic. How do you expect to advance as a society when we continue to waste millions, if not billions, in taxpayer dollars providing for those who are truly evil, unjust, and unmoral, year after year? And yes, these people exist. Those truly beyond any form of help that wouldn't also limit their freedom prior to incarceration. Scientifically we still aren't sure why, whether it's genetic or truly brought on by an unjust existence, but some people are just bad.
All I'm saying is, if that taxpayer money we use to keep pedophile rapists and serial killers around all the time,were redistributed to science and medical fields, think how much we would improve the lives of just andmoral citizens?
Cold? Inhumane? You could say that, but if concerning myself with what those who will actually advance our society, while excluding degenerates whoare detrimental and always will be, is inhumane, then so be it.
It's realistic.
Edit: If there were really some moral and legitimate way to truly predict or cure mental illness and inhumanity, then I'd be for that.
But there isn't, and there never will be.
How is your view realistic. All of that is speculative on your part.Again, you're being idealistic, but not realistic. How do you expect to advance as a society when we continue to waste millions, if not billions, in taxpayer dollars providing for those who are truly evil, unjust, and unmoral, year after year? And yes, these people exist. Those truly beyond any form of help that wouldn't also limit their freedom prior to incarceration. Scientifically we still aren't sure why, whether it's genetic or truly brought on by an unjust existence, but some people are just bad.All I'm saying is, if that taxpayer money we use to keep pedophile rapists and serial killers around all the time,were redistributed to science and medical fields, think how much we would improve the lives of just andmoral citizens?
Cold? Inhumane? You could say that, but if concerning myself with what those who will actually advance our society, while excluding degenerates whoare detrimental and always will be, is inhumane, then so be it.
It's realistic.
Edit: If there were really some moral and legitimate way to truly predict or cure mental illness and inhumanity, then I'd be for that.
But there isn't, and there never will be.
Vaasman
The death penalty in the US costs more than a life sentence. So your entire point is basically moot.
Your justification for your view being "realistic" is quite lacking, to be honest. I'm fighting for humanity, not just those who act according to the law. I'd rather be idealistic and aim for a higher goal then be content with having the blood of other people on my hands because I wasn't concerned with trying to help them. If that costs me money, then so be it. I'd rather my money be used to help people than to kill them. I'd pay even more taxes if it meant the prison system obtained a higher rate of rehabilitation.
[QUOTE="needled24-7"]what???If you're poor you get crap representation and if you come from a lower class lawyers and crime labs are less likely to put 100% into helping you out because you're considered expendable pretty much. Sociology tells us this, for the most part only the middle and upper class get good legal representation, the lower class doesn't and there is an awful lot of incompetent public defenders who simply don't care.well maybe they should think about that before they go off committing crimes that would receive the death penalty. there's really no excuse for committing those kinds of crimes.[QUOTE="Zorn_Ate_Thorn"]
1. The death penalty targets the poor.
Tiefster
I just did an assignment on this like 7 weeks ago.
I am against the death penalty for several reasons. The first reason being that I think it is more torturous to have these people sit in soletary confinement (it almost always drives a person completely crazy to have to sit all by themselves) and keep them alive to live with knowing what they did was wrong, and for the people who claim they have no remorse for their actions, they would be sitting there all by themselves in a one long ass time out.
When we convict someone of murder, and our penalty is killing them, then we are no better then the murderers themselves, as we are essentially doing the same thing to them as they did to someone else. It is not correct.
There are hundreds of cases also, where executions have gone wrong, and it indeed does make us worse then some of the killers themselves. Electric chair executions botched, injection executions botched because they couldnt find a vein and end up sticking the person over 20 times...oh there are more. Just google it.
Also, there are a lot of people who had been sentanced to death who were innocent of their crimes. Some of these people were realized before the execution had been carried out, however, how many have not been? How many innocent people have died by "our" hands?
Thats how I personally feel, and my opinion on it.
I am against because I think death is actually what life sentence convicts want, if you let them rot in a prison they'll be punished more than simply dieing and everything is over.
Ultimately I am for the death penalty, but it would have to be in extreme cases, in alot of cases a death penalty is excessive.
If someone kills another man, the act is closely tied with the actions leading up to the death, for the most part I belive in rehebilitation.
But some poeple can not be changed, some people are simply broken. For them it would be a bigger crime to ever let them out again, then killing them, since you know they will kill again, nomatter what you tell them, nomatter what meds they are on, nomatter what help they get.
Letting those rare cases out, you pretty much signs the death warrent of an innocent person...
So in rare cases with someone who is extremely alien in his train of thoughts, and harbors an illogical rage, and hatred (think A grade violentPsychopaths), I would say the best option is to put them down, nomatter how you view it they are broken people, to such a degree that it defys all logic, they themselves may not have been those who made them so (society, surroundings and parents would have playied a factor), but claiming that they are victims and pitty them, would be a mistake.
Apart from those few cases I am generally not for a death penalty... But since there is a group I think qualifies for it, will ofcourse mean that I somewhere am for it...
(Ok long odd post by me, one of those days I guess^^)
Except less deaths. They let him/her out and they repeat their actions and we have ourselves another innocent person dead. /Under the assumption they do get out of jail for whatever reason and is a serial killer.I'm against it, killing someone does not solve anything
gamedude2020
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment