are you pro or anti gun

[QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]You do realize there are quite a few loose cannons out there right? I find it hillarious that you think the way to deter crime is to give them guns.BumFluff122

Well, for one, the United States isn't seen as one of the most violent nations. I've been to European countries, and the people I've met don't seem to believe that at all. And you being a Canadian does little to support your belief, for Canada is so close to the United States on so many levels that it's hard to sometimes differentiate the two countries.

Next, most homicides aren't committed by brawl fights or arguments but by gang violence, impoverished and disenfranchised Americans, and societal tensions.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"][QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"] You do realize how small that minority is, and how easily they'd be dealt with?VoodooGamer

Well, for one, the United States isn't seen as one of the most violent nations. I've been to European countries, and the people I've met don't seem to believe that at all. And you being a Canadian does little to support your belief, for Canada is so close to the United States on so many levels that it's hard to sometimes differentiate the two countries.

Next, most homicides aren't committed by brawl fights or arguments but by gang violence, impoverished and disenfranchised Americans, and societal tensions.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"][QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"] You do realize how small that minority is, and how easily they'd be dealt with?VoodooGamer

Well, for one, the United States isn't seen as one of the most violent nations. I've been to European countries, and the people I've met don't seem to believe that at all. And you being a Canadian does little to support your belief, for Canada is so close to the United States on so many levels that it's hard to sometimes differentiate the two countries.

Next, most homicides aren't committed by brawl fights or arguments but by gang violence, impoverished and disenfranchised Americans, and societal tensions.

[QUOTE="Treflis"]The gun business in America is circular logic. Civilians : "We need guns to depend ourselves from other people who have guns" Crooks : "We need guns to depend ourselves from other people who have guns" Police : " We need guns to depend ourselves from other people with guns" Everybody needs guns to protect themselves and it just goes around in circles. I'm against it mostly because, Besides Hunting rifles which has an extremely strict law-of-purchase on them, there's no other weapons able to be bought by civilians in Norway which I assume does affect my view on the matter, additionally the Police only get issued weaponry when there's confirmation of a person being armed with a firearm and that is very rare. Might be because the country is somewhat small but even so we have one of the lowest Crime rates in Europe.VoodooGamer

Your country also doesn't have the cultural diversity as the United States either. Most crime isn't committed by depressed teenagers but by ethnic subgroups and impoverished Americans. It's our society that is the problem, and not guns. The sooner we fix our education system, homelessness, and poverty, the sooner we see results.

You do realize how many arguments, fights, bar brawls, etc there are in the US right? Hey why don't we just give them a gun that they can carry areound anywhere. Yeah that would make things quite a bit better. There is a reason why the US is seen as one of the most violent civilizations in the world and is cheifly due to their gun laws and their use of guns.BumFluff122

Well, for one, the United States isn't seen as one of the most violent nations. I've been to European countries, and the people I've met don't seem to believe that at all. And you being a Canadian does little to support your belief, for Canada is so close to the United States on so many levels that it's hard to sometimes differentiate the two countries.

Next, most homicides aren't committed by brawl fights or arguments but by gang violence, impoverished and disenfranchised Americans, and societal tensions.

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]You do realize how many arguments, fights, bar brawls, etc there are in the US right? Hey why don't we just give them a gun that they can carry areound anywhere. Yeah that would make things quite a bit better. There is a reason why the US is seen as one of the most violent civilizations in the world and is cheifly due to their gun laws and their use of guns.BumFluff122

Well, for one, the United States isn't seen as one of the most violent nations. I've been to European countries, and the people I've met don't seem to believe that at all. And you being a Canadian does little to support your belief, for Canada is so close to the United States on so many levels that it's hard to sometimes differentiate the two countries.

Next, most homicides aren't committed by brawl fights or arguments but by gang violence, impoverished and disenfranchised Americans, and societal tensions.

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="Treflis"]The gun business in America is circular logic. Civilians : "We need guns to depend ourselves from other people who have guns" Crooks : "We need guns to depend ourselves from other people who have guns" Police : " We need guns to depend ourselves from other people with guns" Everybody needs guns to protect themselves and it just goes around in circles. I'm against it mostly because, Besides Hunting rifles which has an extremely strict law-of-purchase on them, there's no other weapons able to be bought by civilians in Norway which I assume does affect my view on the matter, additionally the Police only get issued weaponry when there's confirmation of a person being armed with a firearm and that is very rare. Might be because the country is somewhat small but even so we have one of the lowest Crime rates in Europe.Treflis

Your country also doesn't have the cultural diversity as the United States either. Most crime isn't committed by depressed teenagers but by ethnic subgroups and impoverished Americans. It's our society that is the problem, and not guns. The sooner we fix our education system, homelessness, and poverty, the sooner we see results.

But as you said, you don't have them in as large groups of numbers as we do. We have the greatest number of ethnicities living together under one roof, and this breeds tension and, when these people are impoverished or disenfrachied, it breeds violence and disorder. The society is at fault for the level of crime that we see. We have a country that worships the television and trash like American idol while 471,000 people are without homes and 44 million are without healthcare. We have a society that isn't turned on by politics or domestic issues but by consumer goods and the next gadget. People tend to be ignorant, and that is why these issues are still around.

1.) Thats 8 years ago, you can't use that 2.) The United States is much larger. You can't compare the US to a country like England or Norway.Spicy-McHaggis

Pro gun, the people who use them for hunting and the like shouldn't be punished because of the people who buy them illegally or with intent to kill. Besides it wouldn't stop crimes of passion from happening anyway, if you're going to kill your significant other for cheating you'll use anything on hand.

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]You do realize how many arguments, fights, bar brawls, etc there are in the US right? Hey why don't we just give them a gun that they can carry areound anywhere. Yeah that would make things quite a bit better. There is a reason why the US is seen as one of the most violent civilizations in the world and is cheifly due to their gun laws and their use of guns.BumFluff122

Well, for one, the United States isn't seen as one of the most violent nations. I've been to European countries, and the people I've met don't seem to believe that at all. And you being a Canadian does little to support your belief, for Canada is so close to the United States on so many levels that it's hard to sometimes differentiate the two countries.

Next, most homicides aren't committed by brawl fights or arguments but by gang violence, impoverished and disenfranchised Americans, and societal tensions.

You seem to have a warped view of American society and I would urge you to visit the United States more often to really see it for what it is. It's not a war-mongering or power-mongering society at all; at least, not more so than any other country. Your country and mine are both involved in the war in Afghanistan. The French Foreign legion is involved in disputes pretty much everywhere. And England has been aiding us in the war in Iraq. So, we're really no different than anyone else.

You seem to have a warped view of American society and I would urge you to visit the United States more often to really see it for what it is. It's not a war-mongering or power-mongering society at all; at least, not more so than any other country. Your country and mine are both involved in the war in Afghanistan. The French Foreign legion is involved in disputes pretty much everywhere. And England has been aiding us in the war in Iraq. So, we're really no different than anyone else.

VoodooGamer

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

You seem to have a warped view of American society and I would urge you to visit the United States more often to really see it for what it is. It's not a war-mongering or power-mongering society at all; at least, not more so than any other country. Your country and mine are both involved in the war in Afghanistan. The French Foreign legion is involved in disputes pretty much everywhere. And England has been aiding us in the war in Iraq. So, we're really no different than anyone else.

BumFluff122

And I reiterate, the United States is no more power-mongering than Canada or France of Great Britain. Also please elaborate on that last bit.

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

You seem to have a warped view of American society and I would urge you to visit the United States more often to really see it for what it is. It's not a war-mongering or power-mongering society at all; at least, not more so than any other country. Your country and mine are both involved in the war in Afghanistan. The French Foreign legion is involved in disputes pretty much everywhere. And England has been aiding us in the war in Iraq. So, we're really no different than anyone else.

BumFluff122

[QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"]1.) Thats 8 years ago, you can't use that 2.) The United States is much larger. You can't compare the US to a country like England or Norway.BumFluff122

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

You seem to have a warped view of American society and I would urge you to visit the United States more often to really see it for what it is. It's not a war-mongering or power-mongering society at all; at least, not more so than any other country. Your country and mine are both involved in the war in Afghanistan. The French Foreign legion is involved in disputes pretty much everywhere. And England has been aiding us in the war in Iraq. So, we're really no different than anyone else.

BumFluff122

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"][QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

You seem to have a warped view of American society and I would urge you to visit the United States more often to really see it for what it is. It's not a war-mongering or power-mongering society at all; at least, not more so than any other country. Your country and mine are both involved in the war in Afghanistan. The French Foreign legion is involved in disputes pretty much everywhere. And England has been aiding us in the war in Iraq. So, we're really no different than anyone else.

Jacobistheman

Well, I don't know. I wish more of our cities looked like Quebec.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"][QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

You seem to have a warped view of American society and I would urge you to visit the United States more often to really see it for what it is. It's not a war-mongering or power-mongering society at all; at least, not more so than any other country. Your country and mine are both involved in the war in Afghanistan. The French Foreign legion is involved in disputes pretty much everywhere. And England has been aiding us in the war in Iraq. So, we're really no different than anyone else.

Jacobistheman

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"] Insanity is a minority. There will always be crime. Just less once everyone has pistols.Jacobistheman

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"][QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

You seem to have a warped view of American society and I would urge you to visit the United States more often to really see it for what it is. It's not a war-mongering or power-mongering society at all; at least, not more so than any other country. Your country and mine are both involved in the war in Afghanistan. The French Foreign legion is involved in disputes pretty much everywhere. And England has been aiding us in the war in Iraq. So, we're really no different than anyone else.

VoodooGamer

And I reiterate, the United States is no more power-mongering than Canada or France of Great Britain. Also please elaborate on that last bit.

[QUOTE="Benjamin-T"]I'm neutral. You, and why?VoodooGamer

I'm pro-gun. Trying to take away guns to prevent crime is like putting a band-aid over an infected cut--you cover the problem, but you don't fix it.

Well, I don't really see a point in owning a lot of ridiculously powerful guns but then again, I don't think the government should restrict them from the people.

I don't really think gun control works either.

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] I think that perhaps robbery might go down. Murder might go up. Also, armed robbery might go up. These gun enthusiasts out in rural areas insist that their guns are the reason for the lower crime rates. They typically do not consider the rural setting as a control for comparison between rural and urban areas.quiglythegreat

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]I live right on the other side of the border... Being involved in wars all over the world really has nothing to do with what I am saying. What I am saying is that American society is power mongering. This is due to you living in a capitalist society.BumFluff122

And I reiterate, the United States is no more power-mongering than Canada or France of Great Britain. Also please elaborate on that last bit.

The power of the person contributes to the well-being of the society. In reality, all societies are concerned with the society, and those that are a part of the society, seek to enable its success. It doesn't matter whether it is a capitalist or communist society, all societies are concerned about their existence. If an individual chooses to carry a gun to protect himself, he adversely protects those around him whilst protecting himself. If a person seeks self-fulfillment, he helps himself whilst helping the society.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Jacobistheman"] Guns are the reason for lower crime rates. Switzerland has the highest rate of gun ownership, also has the worlds lowest crime, and gun crime rates. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1566715.stmJacobistheman

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] That's kind of my argument though: considering all of Switzerland's history, and it's present social and economic situation, it would be astonishing if it had high crime rates anyway. I do not see any correlation that can be demonstrated in this instance between gun ownership and lower crime rates.quiglythegreat

It seems that everyone who supports the right to bear arms is American, not to be rude, but how well has that worked out for you so far ;)black_tempest

That's just ignoring everything that has been said in this thread. I could put the question to you: how well did the ban on guns help the Soviet Union, but that would be ignoring those countries like Norway which are doing well with restrictions on firearms. ;)

it seems that everyon who supports guns is American, not trying to be rude at all but how well has that worked out for you?black_tempest

it seems that everyon who supports guns is American, not trying to be rude at all but how well has that worked out for you?black_tempest

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]Well, also in the US, the places with the highest gun ownership, there are the lowest crime rates, and the places with the strictest gun laws, and lowest gun ownership have the highest crime rates. In the UK when guns were banned, the crime rate went up by 33%, and the Gun Crime Rate Doubled. There is a correlation between gun ownership and crime rate, but like you said, crime rate is also affected by a lot of other things.Jacobistheman

It seems that everyone who supports the right to bear arms is American, not to be rude, but how well has that worked out for you so far ;)black_tempest

I'm pro-liberty. -Sun_Tzu-

There's the answer.

[QUOTE="black_tempest"]it seems that everyon who supports guns is American, not trying to be rude at all but how well has that worked out for you?DivergeUnify

[QUOTE="DivergeUnify"][QUOTE="black_tempest"]it seems that everyon who supports guns is American, not trying to be rude at all but how well has that worked out for you?black_tempest

Well, as people have been saying, it's not the guns but our society that is at fault. Most gun violence is committed by gangs, impoverished and disenfrachised Americans, and people distraught with the system as it is.

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] I'm sure you'd like to provide some sources on those numbers you so casually drop. You may also want to consider my claim that cultures with high registered gun ownership are inherently less likely to have serious problems with crime.quiglythegreat

[QUOTE="DivergeUnify"][QUOTE="black_tempest"]it seems that everyon who supports guns is American, not trying to be rude at all but how well has that worked out for you?black_tempest

[QUOTE="DivergeUnify"][QUOTE="black_tempest"]it seems that everyon who supports guns is American, not trying to be rude at all but how well has that worked out for you?black_tempest

[QUOTE="black_tempest"][QUOTE="DivergeUnify"]It's working fineDivergeUnify

[QUOTE="DivergeUnify"][QUOTE="black_tempest"] Thats weird when I edited my post it kept the old one and put the new one :? But seriously, when comparing America to countries with gun bans, such as Japan, how can you say that it's working fine. I mean throw out as many statistics as you want (this is to everyone supporting this, not just you) but when you look strictly at the numbers and not percentages, which can easily be manipulated, you get a much grimmer reality about what guns are doing to America, and other countriesblack_tempest

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Jacobistheman"] Well, they are in some of my earlier posts but here they are again. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stmhttp://kuruc.info/r/40/28418/, I could show you some more, but those two should suffice. Jacobistheman