Are you Religious?

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="353535355353535"][QUOTE="mark4091"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"][QUOTE="mark4091"]No, I have seen no sign of god, and I have given the bible a chance, but it makes zero sense so no sorry.353535355353535

I bet 90% of them have not sat down and read all the contradictions.

Well... The Old Testament God was so much cooler, smiting people left and right. He's my hero. The New Testament God is a wimp. I wish he'd start smiting people again, but I guess it only happens 2000+ years ago, before all of us were born. :( 

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

But he'll allow sin to enter the fiery depths of Hell, where they will suffer for all eternity.

Don't you see something wrong with that? I have an opinion, but this New Testament God seems a bit too abusive father for me to really want for him to be my Lord and Saviour.

I would totally believe in Him if He hadn't gone bipolar and went from a screaming dictator with l33t skillz to an angry, drunken father with a twisted sense of humour. 

dog64

Any religion that teaches a hellfire is obviously false. The bible clearly states that "hell" is the second death,not a place of torment. While the word torment is mentioned in the bible, that's referring to Satan and his demons being, not to mankind.

I agree that God seems to act in a unfair way. For a loving and caring God he sure has killed alot of people in the past, and many say he will do so again. Not a God I would want to worship.

Actually, that is not true.

"The sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the grave gave up the dead in them. They were all judged according to their deeds. And death and the grave were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the Second Death--the Lake of Fire. And anyone whos name was not written in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire."--Revalations 20:13

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. Silver_Dragon17

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Because, according to you, it can't be in his precense, and therefore, not even the thought can be in his precense, so sin, by definition, cannot exist. 

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. 353535355353535

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. Greatgone12

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Because, according to you, it can't be in his precense, and therefore, not even the thought can be in his precense, so sin, by definition, cannot exist. 

Sin in His presense does not exist. Sin OUTSIDE of His presense does.

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. Silver_Dragon17

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Because, according to you, it can't be in his precense, and therefore, not even the thought can be in his precense, so sin, by definition, cannot exist.

Sin in His presense does not exist. Sin OUTSIDE of His presense does.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. Greatgone12

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Because, according to you, it can't be in his precense, and therefore, not even the thought can be in his precense, so sin, by definition, cannot exist.

Sin in His presense does not exist. Sin OUTSIDE of His presense does.

God did not create sin: Adam and Eve did.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. Greatgone12

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Because, according to you, it can't be in his precense, and therefore, not even the thought can be in his precense, so sin, by definition, cannot exist.

Sin in His presense does not exist. Sin OUTSIDE of His presense does.

Yah, these sins and all are just a test. Be a good person and not commit sins and then enter paradise------This Is The Concept.

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. Silver_Dragon17

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Because, according to you, it can't be in his precense, and therefore, not even the thought can be in his precense, so sin, by definition, cannot exist.

Sin in His presense does not exist. Sin OUTSIDE of His presense does.

God did not create sin: Adam and Eve did.

So how could he not create sin? I smell contradiction...

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. MFaraz_Hayat

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Because, according to you, it can't be in his precense, and therefore, not even the thought can be in his precense, so sin, by definition, cannot exist.

Sin in His presense does not exist. Sin OUTSIDE of His presense does.

Yah, these sins and all are just a test. Be a good person and not commit sins and then enter paradise------This Is The Concept.

No, it is not. Please read the rest of the topic.

[QUOTE="353535355353535"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. Greatgone12

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

Honestly, does that sound very intelligent? I didn't think so either

Actually, that is not true.

"The sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the grave gave up the dead in them. They were all judged according to their deeds. And death and the grave were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the Second Death--the Lake of Fire. And anyone whos name was not written in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire."--Revalations 20:13

Silver_Dragon17

What odd translation is that from?

Check Revelation 20:14 out again in these translations:

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (KJV)

 This version tells it better:

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. (NIV)

"Hades" is actually a better translation then the word hell. Besides, any translation you use would probably say "second death". So, obviously, you're dead. You can't be dead, and then be alive in hell being tormented at the same time. You would have to be alive to feel the pain, but the bible says you just went through the second death, which means death without hope.

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="353535355353535"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. 353535355353535

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

Honestly, does that sound very intelligent? I didn't think so either

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. Greatgone12

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Because, according to you, it can't be in his precense, and therefore, not even the thought can be in his precense, so sin, by definition, cannot exist.

Funny thing: God did NOT create everything. Nowhere in the Bible does it say God created more than the world, the universe, and Man. But it DOES say Adam and Eve created sin.

Sin in His presense does not exist. Sin OUTSIDE of His presense does.

God did not create sin: Adam and Eve did.

So how could he not create sin? I smell contradiction...

Funny thing is, God did NOT create everything. Nowhere in the Bible does it say He created more than our universe and Man. It DOES say that man created sin, however.

[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion. It is that he sends people to hell for sin. In the old testament, people had to pay their sin debt by sacrificing a lamb. When God sent his son to die on the cross and bear humanity's sin debt, god provided a lamb for all mankind. If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. Silver_Dragon17

God seems somewhat cruel. The problem is, an omnipotent/omniscience being would have no reason for this tomfoolery, unless he had this twisted sense of humour. It's the only explanation.

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Because, according to you, it can't be in his precense, and therefore, not even the thought can be in his precense, so sin, by definition, cannot exist.

Sin in His presense does not exist. Sin OUTSIDE of His presense does.

Yah, these sins and all are just a test. Be a good person and not commit sins and then enter paradise------This Is The Concept.

No, it is not. Please read the rest of the topic.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

Actually, that is not true.

"The sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the grave gave up the dead in them. They were all judged according to their deeds. And death and the grave were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the Second Death--the Lake of Fire. And anyone whos name was not written in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire."--Revalations 20:13

dog64

What odd translation is that from?

Check Revelation 20:14 out again in these translations:

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (KJV)

 This version tells it better:

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. (NIV)

"Hades" is actually a better translation then the word hell. Besides, any translation you use would probably say "second death". So, obviously, you're dead. You can't be dead, and then be alive in hell being tormented at the same time. You would have to be alive to feel the pain, but the bible says you just went through the second death, which means death without hope.

I read from the new living translation.

Second Death means that this is when they are permanently seperated from God. This is a spiritual death, not a physical one.

"And they would have no rest day or night, and the smoke of their torment shall rise forever and ever." I forgot what verse that was.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

"It is finished"? how is that a contradiction?

Silver_Dragon17

And these are. . .?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

"It is finished"? how is that a contradiction?

quiglythegreat

And these are. . .?

That is not a contradiction within the Bible; That is a contradiction between opinions.

it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion.

 

If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. 353535355353535

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][No, you're talking about your interpretation of the faith, which essentially says that all who don't do/believe in a certain thing are, by definition, teh suxors, and are doomed for all eternity.

I love how nice that sounds.

Silver_Dragon17

Well, that's pretty much the story for any religion.

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion.

 

If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. quiglythegreat

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

Silver_Dragon17

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion.

 

If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. 353535355353535

[QUOTE="dog64"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

Actually, that is not true.

"The sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the grave gave up the dead in them. They were all judged according to their deeds. And death and the grave were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the Second Death--the Lake of Fire. And anyone whos name was not written in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire."--Revalations 20:13

Silver_Dragon17

What odd translation is that from?

Check Revelation 20:14 out again in these translations:

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (KJV)

 This version tells it better:

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. (NIV)

"Hades" is actually a better translation then the word hell. Besides, any translation you use would probably say "second death". So, obviously, you're dead. You can't be dead, and then be alive in hell being tormented at the same time. You would have to be alive to feel the pain, but the bible says you just went through the second death, which means death without hope.

I read from the new living translation.

Second Death means that this is when they are permanently seperated from God. This is a spiritual death, not a physical one.

"And they would have no rest day or night, and the smoke of their torment shall rise forever and ever." I forgot what verse that was.

Well, you confused me because it seemed like you were saying that was just one verse (13) that you quoted.

I think you just quoted Revelation 14:10,11:

10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb

11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (KJV)

Most view this scripture mention here as a proof of the existence of a hellfire,because it mentions fire,smoke,and brimstone. But a brief look at a similar prophecy shows the real import of these words in this context. Remember back in the days of Isaiah, when God warned the nation of Edom that they would be punished because of their enmity toward Israel. He said this:

9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. (KJV)

Was Edom hurled into some mythical hellfire to burn forever? Of course not. Rather, Edom completely disappeared from the world map as if it had been totally consumed with fire and sulfur. It's just like when a house burns down, smoke keeps coming from the ashes for some time after the flames have died down, providing onlookers with evidence that there has been destruction.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

quiglythegreat

you guys gonna give us some more contradictions? You guys say that the bible is full of them.353535355353535

"I have never encountered an alleged contradiction in the Bible that cannot be cleared up by the use of the original language of the Scriptures and/or by the use of accepted principals of literary and historical interpretation"--Dr. John Warwick Montgomery, a man with 2 doctorates, 7 undergraduate degrees, has written 40 books and 125 journals, and is a founding member of The world association of Law Professors.

That is not a contradiction within the Bible; That is a contradiction between opinions.

Silver_Dragon17

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]you guys gonna give us some more contradictions? You guys say that the bible is full of them.Silver_Dragon17

"I have never encountered an alleged contradiction in the Bible that cannot be cleared up by the use of the original language of the Scriptures and/or by the use of accepted principals of literary and historical interpretation"--Dr. John Warwick Montgomery, a man with 2 doctorates, 7 undergraduate degrees, has written 40 books and 125 journals, and is a founding member of The world association of Law Professors.

[QUOTE="353535355353535"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]it is not that god sends people to hell for having a different opinion.

 

If you accept jesus as your personal savior, you will be forgiven. quiglythegreat

Please quit asking questions I have already answered.

GOD. DID. NOT. MAKE. MAN. SINFUL.

God did not make sin.

God did not make death.

God did not make evil.

MAN DID.

MAN=/=GOD.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

That is not a contradiction within the Bible; That is a contradiction between opinions.

quiglythegreat

Then please give me some of these oh-so obvious contradictions, mighty Quigly.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]you guys gonna give us some more contradictions? You guys say that the bible is full of them.quiglythegreat

"I have never encountered an alleged contradiction in the Bible that cannot be cleared up by the use of the original language of the Scriptures and/or by the use of accepted principals of literary and historical interpretation"--Dr. John Warwick Montgomery, a man with 2 doctorates, 7 undergraduate degrees, has written 40 books and 125 journals, and is a founding member of The world association of Law Professors.

Read the message again.

He says that he used modern-day, universally accepted methods of historical interpretation to clear up ANY so-called cotradiction. And did you miss the whole credentials part?

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

That is not a contradiction within the Bible; That is a contradiction between opinions.

Silver_Dragon17

Then please give me some of these oh-so obvious contradictions, mighty Quigly.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="353535355353535"]you guys gonna give us some more contradictions? You guys say that the bible is full of them.Silver_Dragon17

"I have never encountered an alleged contradiction in the Bible that cannot be cleared up by the use of the original language of the Scriptures and/or by the use of accepted principals of literary and historical interpretation"--Dr. John Warwick Montgomery, a man with 2 doctorates, 7 undergraduate degrees, has written 40 books and 125 journals, and is a founding member of The world association of Law Professors.

Read the message again.

He says that he used modern-day, universally accepted methods of historical interpretation to clear up ANY so-called cotradiction. And did you miss the whole credentials part?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

God does not let sin into His presense because He is PERFECT. Sin CANNOT be in His precense, so there is only 1 other place to go.

quiglythegreat

I'm not Catholic. I don't agree with Catholicism.

Please quit asking questions I have already answered.

GOD. DID. NOT. MAKE. MAN. SINFUL.

God did not make sin.

God did not make death.

God did not make evil.

MAN DID.

MAN=/=GOD.

Silver_Dragon17

Please quit asking questions I have already answered.

GOD. DID. NOT. MAKE. MAN. SINFUL.

God did not make sin.

God did not make death.

God did not make evil.

MAN DID.

MAN=/=GOD.

Silver_Dragon17

Yes, I am religious.masterfreund

Hey me too!! :) 

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

That is not a contradiction within the Bible; That is a contradiction between opinions.

quiglythegreat

Then please give me some of these oh-so obvious contradictions, mighty Quigly.

No, what specifically contradicts it? His last words in one version and His last words in another? I have no idea what you're talking about.:?

No, what specifically contradicts it? His last words in one version and His last words in another? I have no idea what you're talking about.:?

Silver_Dragon17

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

Please quit asking questions I have already answered.

GOD. DID. NOT. MAKE. MAN. SINFUL.

God did not make sin.

God did not make death.

God did not make evil.

MAN DID.

MAN=/=GOD.

quiglythegreat

And therein lies another arguement.

God CAN control men, but He doesn't WANT to. Why? Because He wants us to believe in Him willingly, not like robots. Men are held responsible for his actions. Feel free to PM me if you have any personal questions, by the way.