Atheists, Do You Celebrate Christmas?

[QUOTE="harashawn"][QUOTE="dog64"]

But that's not the day of his birth. Why celebrate his birth on that day when you know it's not really his birthday? Jesus doesn't even say to celebrate his birth.

dog64

Did you choose your birthday? Why choose Jesus'?

No, but I and my parents know what day i was born. It's not his birthday, it is the day we celebrate his birth... harashawn

Don't people normally celebrate a persons birth on their birthday? And who chose Jesus' birthday, or the day you celebrate his birth?

First of all, Christmas is commercialised completely now anyway. And aside from that it's just a time to get together for all the family and since it's a holiday why not just celebrate it at the same time. Makes life easier. In my family it's about giving gifts and having a nice dinner there is no mention of the Christian holiday it just so happens to be on the same day and for convinience we call it Christmas. lol am just talking crap oh well.

Don't people normally celebrate a persons birth on their birthday? And who chose Jesus' birthday, or the day you celebrate his birth?

dog64

[QUOTE="dog64"]Don't people normally celebrate a persons birth on their birthday? And who chose Jesus' birthday, or the day you celebrate his birth?

harashawn

How many people don't know their date of birth, or don't tell others their date of birth? I think the only person who we don't know when they were born is Jesus. If his birth was something to be celebrated, wouldn't he of given his date of birth in the Bible?

And again, who decided that December 25th was the day to celebrate his birth?

And again, who decided that December 25th was the day to celebrate his birth?

dog64

Read this link http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jesus-born-on-december-25-faq.htm

No, if anything they celebrate saturnalia, which is the pagan winter festival that involves having a good time with family and friends. Saturnalia is also where most of our Christmas traditions come from such as decorating trees, giving gifts to others, singing carols, etc.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

And again, who decided that December 25th was the day to celebrate his birth?

BumFluff122

Read this link http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jesus-born-on-december-25-faq.htm

What that article fails to answer is if Christians should be celebrating his birth on December 25th. It actually leaves that up to the opinion of the reader, even though it states much evidence that's it more likely that Jesus was really born in September or October. Since December 25th has pagan tradition, why would Christians today still use that date?

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="dog64"]

And again, who decided that December 25th was the day to celebrate his birth?

dog64

Read this link http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jesus-born-on-december-25-faq.htm

What that article fails to answer is if Christians should be celebrating his birth on December 25th. It actually leaves that up to the opinion of the reader, even though it states much evidence that's it more likely that Jesus was really born in September or October. Since December 25th has pagan tradition, why would Christians today still use that date?

Because it has now become christian tradition. But it was originally pagan tradition.

yes but it´s because my parents make me celebrate it, when I´m older I probably won´t

well actually i´m not exactly an atheist but I´m not a catholic

I personally dont see any religious meaning in it anymore. Its a time for friends, family and getting together!

clyde46

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="harashawn"] Nobody knows his birthday; that is just the day they chose. :| BumFluff122

Did you choose your birthday? Why choose Jesus'?

Considering that Christmas was neither originally a Christian holiday (originally the Roman Saturnalia winter festival) or is currently a Christian holiday either (being almost entirely commercial), I don't see why it is wrong for atheists, or anyone else for that matter who isn't Christian, to celebrate a holiday originally designed as a means of celebrating community, family and togetherness.

I stopped celebrating X-mas several years ago. Not believing in christianity I never did the Jesus birthday thing but even as a secular holiday I think X-mas has become a terrible perversion of what it's supposed to be. Anybody that has worked in retail around that time of year might understand. My wife however is an atheist but she celebrates X-mas with my family every year.

Meh, considering that we celebrated Christmas before the man was born up here (the fridgid North), I cant see the harm in it. (Knownas the celebration of light, before it was redubbed "Christmas" by the Chatholic Church)

But as someone said, the Christmas most people celebrate has next to nothing to do with Christ, it is becomming known more as the celebration of hearts, and honestly, lepricons and santa?? (not the real man who once lived, but the jolly heavyset guy ;) ).

It is sort of a consumer fest, and a time to get together in the local communities, while there still are people who consider it a celebration for Jesus.

That said I am not an Atheist, Im a Buddhist so my views on that day is quite different then most people around me, I really cant see the harm in it in any way.

Considering that Christmas was neither originally a Christian holiday (originally the Roman Saturnalia winter festival) or is currently a Christian holiday either (being almost entirely commercial), I don't see why it is wrong for atheists, or anyone else for that matter who isn't Christian, to celebrate a holiday originally designed as a means of celebrating community, family and togetherness.

foxhound_fox

Many of the traditions have Pagan origins; Christmas in itself is not and has never been a Pagan holiday. I don't know why I have to keep telling you this... harashawn

[QUOTE="harashawn"] Many of the traditions have Pagan origins; Christmas in itself is not and has never been a Pagan holiday. I don't know why I have to keep telling you this... foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="harashawn"] Many of the traditions have Pagan origins; Christmas in itself is not and has never been a Pagan holiday. I don't know why I have to keep telling you this... foxhound_fox

I'm Catholic and i have nothing against atheists. I don't post here much but i do view forums very often and i see all of the atheists forums. I think it is not right to be atheists and celebrate Christmas. If you atheists thats fine but its kind of hypocritical to celebrate Christmas. Thoughts?bigpapa2284

I celebrate Christmas as a time to spend with family and friends, nothing more. Since you're Catholic, don't you think it's a little hypocritical to be celebrating your savior's birth on a pagan holiday?

They didn't celebrate the same thing, they are not the same holiday. Let's say a national holiday is placed on October 31st. Would it be fair to say "October 31st was never a national holiday, it was always a Pagan holiday"?

harashawn

Since December 25th has pagan tradition, why would Christians today still use that date?

dog64

Tradition, more or less. As has already been said to death, Christmas was basically invented to make conversion to Christianity easier for those who didn't want to give up their celebration occurring around the winter solstice. Since then it's basically come to be assimilated into Christianity, despite the fact that it has absolutely no basis in the Bible.

They didn't celebrate the same thing, they are not the same holiday. Let's say a national holiday is placed on October 31st. Would it be fair to say "October 31st was never a national holiday, it was always a Pagan holiday"?

harashawn

If that national holiday was celebrated by children dressing up, going around town, and getting candy from houses decorated with black and orange and with carved pumpkins in the yard with candles placed in them, then yes, I think it would absolutely be fair to conclude that they basically just made a national holiday out of Halloween, regardless of what they called it.

It's not just the date. It's also the fact that basically every single form of celebration is identical to the pagan celebration. Decorated tree? Check. Gift-giving? Check. Huge feast? Check. All they did was Ctrl+V Jesus into the picture and called it a day.

It wasn't "invented to convert", that's a very skewed way of stating it. It's meant to celebrate Jesus' birth. Since the exact date is uncertain, the people of the time decided to put it on December 25th to coincide with other holidays.F1_2004

Yes, it was intended to convert. Why else would they take a pagan celebration and just affix Jesus onto it?

[QUOTE="F1_2004"]It wasn't "invented to convert", that's a very skewed way of stating it. It's meant to celebrate Jesus' birth. Since the exact date is uncertain, the people of the time decided to put it on December 25th to coincide with other holidays.GabuEx

Yes, it was intended to convert. Why else would they take a pagan celebration and just affix Jesus onto it?

Because it was intended to celebrate Jesus' birth, which is kind of a big deal in Christianity. Moreso than getting converts. Read my last post.F1_2004

You didn't answer the question.

Why would they take a pagan celebration, and use it to celebrate Jesus' birth? Does that not strike you as kind of odd?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="F1_2004"]It wasn't "invented to convert", that's a very skewed way of stating it. It's meant to celebrate Jesus' birth. Since the exact date is uncertain, the people of the time decided to put it on December 25th to coincide with other holidays.F1_2004

Yes, it was intended to convert. Why else would they take a pagan celebration and just affix Jesus onto it?

I don't celebrate the birthday of Christ, just consumer goods. Long live capitalism.solid_mario

This is what I support.

I celebrate Christmas.

I had the impression no one celebrates Christmass in US anymore - it's "Holidays" now. Damn political correctness... Regardless, we (the ateists) celebrate Christmass not for the birth of Jesus, but because everyone else does. Besides, it's a good excuse to start celebrating the New Year a week sooner.

I don't celebrate Christmas actually although I do usually give a gift or two to close friends. I'm sure I would if I had kids or any loved ones in my life but I would explain to them the full origin of the holiday so they at least could grow up with some proper knowledge under their collective belts.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

Since December 25th has pagan tradition, why would Christians today still use that date?

GabuEx

Tradition, more or less. As has already been said to death, Christmas was basically invented to make conversion to Christianity easier for those who didn't want to give up their celebration occurring around the winter solstice. Since then it's basically come to be assimilated into Christianity, despite the fact that it has absolutely no basis in the Bible.

Does that make it acceptable though? If Christmas has no basis in the Bible, maybe god/Jesus doesn't really approve of Christmas? How can we be sure?

Christmas is a holiday made by society. It has nothing to do with Religion whatsoever. Same as Easter. It was made for commercial purposes, and that's all I have to say about that. WestSideAzn

Er... I'm fairly sure that Christmas and Easter existed before commercialism.

Does that make it acceptable though? If Christmas has no basis in the Bible, maybe god/Jesus doesn't really approve of Christmas? How can we be sure?

dog64

Given that the Bible does not say a single word on the topic of Christmas, I don't really think we can be terribly sure of what God thinks of it. At the end of the day, I sincerely doubt that God would look unkindly on something that inspires generosity, goodwill, and closeness of family, though.

[QUOTE="harashawn"] They didn't celebrate the same thing, they are not the same holiday. Let's say a national holiday is placed on October 31st. Would it be fair to say "October 31st was never a national holiday, it was always a Pagan holiday"?

foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="WestSideAzn"]Christmas is a holiday made by society. It has nothing to do with Religion whatsoever. Same as Easter. It was made for commercial purposes, and that's all I have to say about that. GabuEx

Er... I'm fairly sure that Christmas and Easter existed before commercialism.

[QUOTE="WestSideAzn"]Christmas is a holiday made by society. It has nothing to do with Religion whatsoever. Same as Easter. It was made for commercial purposes, and that's all I have to say about that. GabuEx

Er... I'm fairly sure that Christmas and Easter existed before commercialism.

As I've said before: The traditions do not dictate the celebration. I can celebrate Christmas without gifts, a feast, or any of those traditions. It may have Pagan traditions, but the celebration is Christian.

harashawn

That does not change the fact that foxhound_fox is speaking of that the celebration is basically a bad Photoshopping of Jesus into a pagan picture. Christmas celebration has basically no real Christian foundation, hence the reason why non-Christians can celebrate it perfectly well. Christians just took a pagan celebration and made up a way in which pagans could still celebrate it after converting to Christianity. That's really all that went into its creation.

[QUOTE="F1_2004"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Yes, it was intended to convert. Why else would they take a pagan celebration and just affix Jesus onto it?

Darth-Caedus

The main purpose of Christmas is not to put up a Christmas tree or give gifts, but to celebrate Jesus' birth. That is a fully Christian thing.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

Does that make it acceptable though? If Christmas has no basis in the Bible, maybe god/Jesus doesn't really approve of Christmas? How can we be sure?

GabuEx

Given that the Bible does not say a single word on the topic of Christmas, I don't really think we can be terribly sure of what God thinks of it. At the end of the day, I sincerely doubt that God would look unkindly on something that inspires generosity, goodwill, and closeness of family, though.

True, but at the same time, since Christmas does carry some pagan tradition (who Christians believe are not approved by god) then maybe these things shouldn't be mixed. Maybe if you celebrated Christmas without a tree, presents, or lights it would be more "Christian", but then it wouldn't really be Christmas would it? :P

So ancient merchants =/= commercialism?Vandalvideo

Commercialism as in the taking of something non-commercial and turning it into something used to sell products. I don't think that there were posters exclaiming, "ONLY 200 DAYS BEFORE CHRISTMAS! BUY NOW! AVOID THE RUSH!" in the time of ancient merchants.

[QUOTE="WestSideAzn"]Christmas is a holiday made by society. It has nothing to do with Religion whatsoever. Same as Easter. It was made for commercial purposes, and that's all I have to say about that. GabuEx

Er... I'm fairly sure that Christmas and Easter existed before commercialism.

[QUOTE="harashawn"]

As I've said before: The traditions do not dictate the celebration. I can celebrate Christmas without gifts, a feast, or any of those traditions. It may have Pagan traditions, but the celebration is Christian.

GabuEx

That does not change the fact that foxhound_fox is speaking of that the celebration is basically a bad Photoshopping of Jesus into a pagan picture. Christmas celebration has basically no real Christian foundation, hence the reason why non-Christians can celebrate it perfectly well. Christians just took a pagan celebration and made up a way in which pagans could still celebrate it after converting to Christianity. That's really all that went into its creation.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]So ancient merchants =/= commercialism?GabuEx

Commercialism as in the taking of something non-commercial and turning it into something used to sell products. I don't think that there were posters exclaiming, "ONLY 200 DAYS BEFORE CHRISTMAS! BUY NOW! AVOID THE RUSH!" in the time of ancient merchants.

As I've said before: The traditions do not dictate the celebration. I can celebrate Christmas without gifts, a feast, or any of those traditions. It may have Pagan traditions, but the celebration is Christian.

harashawn

Yes, the date may have been picked to coincide with pagan holidays in order to make it easier for pagans to convert, or maybe it was picked because there was no certain date of Christ's birth and late December at the time was considered a festive holiday time. But regardless of that, it is a Christian holiday to celebrate Jesus' birth. Different from saying "Christmas is a pagan holiday" or "copy & paste Jesus" or something stupid like that.

The main purpose of Christmas is not to put up a Christmas tree or give gifts, but to celebrate Jesus' birth. That is a fully Christian thing.

F1_2004

If I took Superbowl Sunday, changed absolutely nothing, but called it "Jesus Sunday" and started telling people that it was celebrating the time that Jesus said the Sabbath was made for us, then would Jesus Sunday suddenly be a Christian celebration, and would it be a fully Christian thing?

Because that's basically what they did with Christmas.