Biden says GOP is strong enough to beat Obama in 2012

[QUOTE="ZumaJones07"]As we get closer and closer, I'm believing it more. At first I was certain Obama would win, now I'd say it's like 70/30.Pirate700

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

It's not that the GOP is strong enough, it's that Obama is so weak right now.

DroidPhysX

Again with this "Obama is actually a moderate Republican" nonsense. We already have one Sun Tzu here, we don't need another.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Well, obviously the political implications of both will royally screw the incumbent party, but that's not the argument I'm making.

chessmaster1989

Actually according to current polls, he would win against any of them except maybe Romney. Obviously that can change over the next year, but how it will change and in what direction remains to be seen.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="ZumaJones07"]As we get closer and closer, I'm believing it more. At first I was certain Obama would win, now I'd say it's like 70/30.EntropyWins

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Well, obviously the political implications of both will royally screw the incumbent party, but that's not the argument I'm making.

chessmaster1989

Actually according to current polls, he would win against any of them except maybe Romney. Obviously that can change over the next year, but how it will change and in what direction remains to be seen.

The polls ought to be taken with a grain of salt at this time. Things are always different when it's one on one. Much like these polls pitting Obama against a "generic" Republican showing him down 48-41. Once the primaries are done. everything changes.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="ZumaJones07"]As we get closer and closer, I'm believing it more. At first I was certain Obama would win, now I'd say it's like 70/30.EntropyWins

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]The advantage Obama has is he's been campaigning for his second term since the day he took office. ;)

Bloodseeker23

That's kinda the rule for politicians, actually.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Yup. Obama is in a world of hurt politically. He wouldn't win against any of the top four GOP candidates right now. And on top of that the electoral map changes for 2012 which will benefit republicans.QuistisTrepe_

Actually according to current polls, he would win against any of them except maybe Romney. Obviously that can change over the next year, but how it will change and in what direction remains to be seen.

The polls ought to be taken with a grain of salt at this time. Things are always different when it's one on one. Much like these polls pitting Obama against a "generic" Republican showing him down 48-41. Once the primaries are done. everything changes.

Hence my second comment.

I have to say you Americans really go over board when it comes to elections. It's a year before your election and you're already all worked up over it. Here in Canada we'll just randomly declare that we want an election and be informed around 2 weeks before it happens. Then everyone forgets it's happening until the day before. Then ultimately we just go and vote for whoever we want to vote for. Ace6301

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]I have to say you Americans really go over board when it comes to elections. It's a year before your election and you're already all worked up over it. Here in Canada we'll just randomly declare that we want an election and be informed around 2 weeks before it happens. Then everyone forgets it's happening until the day before. Then ultimately we just go and vote for whoever we want to vote for. PWSteal_Ldpinch

All of the GOP candidates are bat**** insane. Romney is probably the most electable out of all of them, but even he's crazy as hell. Trying to pick the most viable GOP candidate right now is like going to into an insane asylum and trying to find the patient who's the least schizophrenic. It will be frightening if any of them win the presidency.

It'll also be really sad since it would speak volumes about how uninformed the average voter is about politics. Anyone who's paid even passing attention to congress for the last 3 years knows that the Republicans have pretty much been directly responsible for every single one of Obama's "failures" by blocking all Democrat legislation in congress. And how the hell do you forget about how the Republicans held the whole country hostage just a couple months ago out of their lust for power?

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]He is a weak leader. I'm shocked no one in the Democratic party ran a primary against him.QuistisTrepe_

Again with this "Obama is actually a moderate Republican" nonsense. We already have one Sun Tzu here, we don't need another.

Nationalism never got anyone anywhere good.Ace6301

We're all in this together.Ace6301

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Actually according to current polls, he would win against any of them except maybe Romney. Obviously that can change over the next year, but how it will change and in what direction remains to be seen.

chessmaster1989

The polls ought to be taken with a grain of salt at this time. Things are always different when it's one on one. Much like these polls pitting Obama against a "generic" Republican showing him down 48-41. Once the primaries are done. everything changes.

Hence my second comment.

I've had two whiskey sours and four beers tonight, whaddya want, reading comprehension?

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

The polls ought to be taken with a grain of salt at this time. Things are always different when it's one on one. Much like these polls pitting Obama against a "generic" Republican showing him down 48-41. Once the primaries are done. everything changes.

QuistisTrepe_

Hence my second comment.

I've had two whiskey sours and four beers tonight, whaddya want, reading comprehension?

partying alone tonight? Never a good idea.

i thought biden was known for saying stupid things that aren't true though...comp_atkins

meh, that's only true when he says things that people don't agree with.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]He is a weak leader. I'm shocked no one in the Democratic party ran a primary against him.QuistisTrepe_

Again with this "Obama is actually a moderate Republican" nonsense. We already have one Sun Tzu here, we don't need another.

I'm also not convinced by the argument that Obama is a moderate Republican.

I understand why people make it, but I just don't think it holds up.

I think the best descriptor of Obama is that he is mainstream (or moderately liberal) Democrat who has been forced to move to the right because of a Republican-controlled house.

As for the topic, the GOP is strong in that they have an enthused base and they have a clearly defined purpose whereas I'm not sure the same is true of the Dems.

However, their candidates are extremely weak considering the vulnerabilities or the sitting President. None of them come even close to being a well-rounded candidate.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] A true Rockefeller Republican if I ever saw one.GreySeal9

Again with this "Obama is actually a moderate Republican" nonsense. We already have one Sun Tzu here, we don't need another.

I'm also not convinced by the argument that Obama is a moderate Republican.

I understand why people make it, but I just don't think it holds up.

I think the best descriptor of Obama is that he is mainstream (or moderately liberal) Democrat who has been forced to move to the right because of a Republican-controlled house.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

Again with this "Obama is actually a moderate Republican" nonsense. We already have one Sun Tzu here, we don't need another.

LJS9502_basic

I'm also not convinced by the argument that Obama is a moderate Republican.

I understand why people make it, but I just don't think it holds up.

I think the best descriptor of Obama is that he is mainstream (or moderately liberal) Democrat who has been forced to move to the right because of a Republican-controlled house.

Yeah, it's technically a choice, but if he didn't move to the right, he would have absolutely no realistic way to govern.

The GOP is, the candidates they have aren't.

nintendofreak_2

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I'm also not convinced by the argument that Obama is a moderate Republican.

I understand why people make it, but I just don't think it holds up.

I think the best descriptor of Obama is that he is mainstream (or moderately liberal) Democrat who has been forced to move to the right because of a Republican-controlled house.

GreySeal9

Yeah, it's technically a choice, but if he didn't move to the right, he would have absolutely no realistic way to govern.

in other news water is damp, pie > cake, and it is slightly above hot on the sun. understatements are fun.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I'd say he's not forced to move to the right. He might have to compromise on some issues....but if he's moving to the right that would be a choice.

LJS9502_basic

Yeah, it's technically a choice, but if he didn't move to the right, he would have absolutely no realistic way to govern.

I agree that moving to the right can an ideological shift, but I also think that actions can also represent moving to the right.

If it was just a single compromise, I wouldn't use the term moving to the right. But he's moved right on a number of things, resulting in a net rightward shift in terms of his actions/policies.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Yeah, it's technically a choice, but if he didn't move to the right, he would have absolutely no realistic way to govern.

GreySeal9

I agree that moving to the right can an ideological shift, but I also think that actions can also represent moving to the right.

If it was just a single compromise, I wouldn't use the term moving to the right. But he's moved right on a number of things, resulting in a net rightward shift in terms of his actions/policies.

So when the GOP said back in '09 (regarding health care reform) "If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him." Were they focused on helping America or trying to ruin Obama's political career? EntropyWins

Why does it have to be one or the other?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I think we see moving to the right differently. A president proposes his ideas. It's usually going to entail come compromise to get it passed unless one has an overwhelming majority and congress that unilaterally will support everything. So the bill will be compromised in some degree. But when you talk of moving to the right....I see that as an ideology shift. Not a compromise.LJS9502_basic

I agree that moving to the right can an ideological shift, but I also think that actions can also represent moving to the right.

If it was just a single compromise, I wouldn't use the term moving to the right. But he's moved right on a number of things, resulting in a net rightward shift in terms of his actions/policies.

Well, TBH, I see it as a "just for the sake of compromise" kind of thing as well, but alot of progressives don't seem to see it that way, which is where the idea that he's become a Republican comes from.

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"]So when the GOP said back in '09 (regarding health care reform) "If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him." Were they focused on helping America or trying to ruin Obama's political career? airshocker

Why does it have to be one or the other?

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"]So when the GOP said back in '09 (regarding health care reform) "If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him." Were they focused on helping America or trying to ruin Obama's political career? airshocker

Why does it have to be one or the other?

I guess it doesn't, but I don't really see any evidence that the GOP is at all focused on helping the country.

i closed up shop and got a new job when that bill was passed, so whatever the republicans intent or drive it would have helped me and those i let go if it were not passed.

surrealnumber5

It would have helped this entire country if it wasn't passed. No ones health premiums would have gone up like they had since the bill has been passed, and like your case, I'm sure there wouldn't have been an adverse affect on business.

I guess it doesn't, but I don't really see any evidence that the GOP is at all focused on helping the country.

GreySeal9

Well that's because you think Democratic policies help this country, or help you.

I don't think they do, and they don't help me at all.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

i closed up shop and got a new job when that bill was passed, so whatever the republicans intent or drive it would have helped me and those i let go if it were not passed.

airshocker

It would have helped this entire country if it wasn't passed. No ones health premiums would have gone up like they had since the bill has been passed, and like your case, I'm sure there wouldn't have been an adverse affect on business.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I guess it doesn't, but I don't really see any evidence that the GOP is at all focused on helping the country.

airshocker

Well that's because you think Democratic policies help this country, or help you.

I don't think they do, and they don't help me at all.

Depends on which Democratic policies you're talking about, but my comment is not neccesarily about Democratic policies being the ones that help the country. It has more to do with the GOP's priorities.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I guess it doesn't, but I don't really see any evidence that the GOP is at all focused on helping the country.

airshocker

Well that's because you think Democratic policies help this country, or help you.

I don't think they do, and they don't help me at all.

but i make more money now and work less hours than i did before, proof it was good for the economy.

surrealnumber5

Maybe good for your economy. I would have preferred you stayed a business owner and made jobs. :P

Depends on which Democratic policies you're talking about, but my comment is not neccesarily about Democratic policies being the ones that help the country. It has more to do with the GOP's priorities.

GreySeal9

I think, acting as Obama's power check, forces him to pass more moderate policies. Right now they aren't even acting as obstructionists, they're the ones sponsoring his jobs bill. The DEMOCRATS don't want it passed.

How does republican policies help you?LJS9502_basic

By essentially leaving me the hell alone. They're also the only ones fighting to make sure the government can't tell me to buy health insurance.

More often than not Republican policies help me. Of course I would like some actual fiscal conservatism thrown in there, maybe some smaller government practices they keep promising but I'll take what I can get right now.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Depends on which Democratic policies you're talking about, but my comment is not neccesarily about Democratic policies being the ones that help the country. It has more to do with the GOP's priorities.

airshocker

I think, acting as Obama's power check, forces him to pass more moderate policies. Right now they aren't even acting as obstructionists, they're the ones sponsoring his jobs bill. The DEMOCRATS don't want it passed.

I haven't been following politics lately, so can you show give me a link as to what you're talking about in the bolded portion?

The GOP has certain been a power check to Obama. But what I don't see from them is their initiatives to get the economy off the ground. The GOP, since the moment they took control of the House, seem more concerned about other things, and they seem more beholden to ideology and their various agendas.

That's not the say the Democrats weren't more focused on their agenda, but that's where your point about policies come in. I think Democrats were more interested in helping people in this country, but, their priorities were out of whack as well. Not nearly enough action on jobs.

Both parites lack of action on jobs has been very detrimental IMO.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]How does republican policies help you?airshocker

By essentially leaving me the hell alone. They're also the only ones fighting to make sure the government can't tell me to buy health insurance.

More often than not Republican policies help me. Of course I would like some actual fiscal conservatism thrown in there, maybe some smaller government practices they keep promising but I'll take what I can get right now.

I haven't been following politics lately, so can you show give me a link as to what you're talking about in the bolded portion?

The GOP has certain been a power check to Obama. But what I don't see from them is their initiatives to get the economy off the ground. The GOP, since the moment they took control of the House, seem more concerned about other things, and they seem more beholden to ideology and their various agendas.

That's not the say the Democrats weren't more focused on their agenda, but that's where your point about policies come in. I think Democrats were more interested in helping people in this country, but, their priorities were out of whack as well. Not nearly enough action on jobs.

Both parites lack of action on jobs has been very detrimental IMO.

GreySeal9

Here's a WSJ article on the thing with the jobs bill.

I think that you don't pay enough attention to Republicans if you think they haven't been actively-promoting policy to create jobs in this country.

I'm sure the Democrats do help some people. They just don't help me. The only Democrat I know of that's doing anything to help ME is Cuomo, and he's acting more like a Republican than anything.

Republican policies have vastly increased spending which will sooner or later effect your paycheck.LJS9502_basic

So have Democrats. Now I see Republican candidates as the only ones talking about cutting spending.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"]So when the GOP said back in '09 (regarding health care reform) "If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him." Were they focused on helping America or trying to ruin Obama's political career? surrealnumber5

Why does it have to be one or the other?

@surreal: lol @ blaming your business failure on Obama's healthcare. I see a lot of businesses everywhere despite its passage, so maybe you couldn't run a business very well?

@ airshocker: Look again at that quote. Did he mention the country anywhere? No? Well I guess that means that all they care about is destroying obama. Not that this is shocking news to anybody since the republicans have shown that they will actually destroy America politically and economically to try and ruin him. Hopefully Americans see past this bs.

EntropyWins

You going to answer my question at all...?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Republican policies have vastly increased spending which will sooner or later effect your paycheck.airshocker

So have Democrats. Now I see Republican candidates as the only ones talking about cutting spending.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I haven't been following politics lately, so can you show give me a link as to what you're talking about in the bolded portion?

The GOP has certain been a power check to Obama. But what I don't see from them is their initiatives to get the economy off the ground. The GOP, since the moment they took control of the House, seem more concerned about other things, and they seem more beholden to ideology and their various agendas.

That's not the say the Democrats weren't more focused on their agenda, but that's where your point about policies come in. I think Democrats were more interested in helping people in this country, but, their priorities were out of whack as well. Not nearly enough action on jobs.

Both parites lack of action on jobs has been very detrimental IMO.

airshocker

Here's a WSJ article on the thing with the jobs bill.

I think that you don't pay enough attention to Republicans if you think they haven't been actively-promoting policy to create jobs in this country.

I'm sure the Democrats do help some people. They just don't help me. The only Democrat I know of that's doing anything to help ME is Cuomo, and he's acting more like a Republican than anything.

So what exactly have Republicans been doing to promote job creation?