BREAKING NEWS: House cannot pass Senate Health Care Bill

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] The big tax in the senate bill is the excise tax, which has been referred to as the tax on "cadillac health care plans". Here's the best explanation of it that I could find on teh interwebz.

"the tax begins on family plans costing $23,000 a year, and that sum grows at the rate of inflation in the Consumer Price Index plus one percentage point (so if inflation that year was 3.3 percent, the threshold would grow by 4.3 percent)."

- Ezra Klein

-Sun_Tzu-

Does the .9% tax decrease incrementally down to a certain $ value or is 200,000 the floor for the tax?

If that is the floor, then it appears I would only be looking at a maximum 4-5% tax on my Health Care Package (not income) because make waay less than 200K...do I have that right?

If I do have that right (5% tax on Plan)...that is a SMALL price to pay to help people IMO

umm no you tried to promote your line as a way to say its the governments job to help people. When the whole point of this nation was to get away from a overbearing government. So why would they want to impose government control on healthcare when thats what they were running away from?

njean777

The founding fathers disagreed on several things, and they obviously weren't all "small-government" people. Like John Adams, the Federalist? Or Thomas Jefferson, who wanted to get rid of inheritance? And Benjamin Franklin, who came up with the idea of public lending libraries and the fire department?

They weren't the band of like-minded libertarians you seem to have dreamed them up as. They didn't revolt because of petty things like taxes or because the English government was "too big." They revolted because Britain had transgressed on their rights several times over. If you think that there's a comparable situation...

umm no you tried to promote your line as a way to say its the governments job to help people. When the whole point of this nation was to get away from a overbearing government. So why would they want to impose government control on healthcare when thats what they were running away from?

njean777

[QUOTE="njean777"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] Do you also believe that hospitals should still treat you if you get shot and wheeled into an emergency room without health care insurance? Because if you do not have insurance, it is the rest of us that foots the bill for your treatment in the form of higher premiums that are passed onto everyone else.nocoolnamejim

no they should have to pay for it themselves, its their fault they do not have healthcare, no matter what you do there is always a way to get healthcare, there are many private options available if your job doesnt offer it. Also if you smoke or are obese you should have to pay extra as you are a higher liability to health insurers.

like i said before you should have to pay for that emergency care, but it doesnt have to be up front but most hospitals make you pay a deductible anyways, it could be done through a plan like most hospitals will do.

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="njean777"]

no they should have to pay for it themselves, its their fault they do not have healthcare, no matter what you do there is always a way to get healthcare, there are many private options available if your job doesnt offer it. Also if you smoke or are obese you should have to pay extra as you are a higher liability to health insurers.

njean777

like i said before you should have to pay for that emergency care, but it doesnt have to be up front but most hospitals make you pay a deductible anyways, it could be done through a plan like most hospitals will do.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] Thank you Would that be my only tax and/or my maximum tax increase...or would that be in addition to other smaller health care taxes (as far as health care is concerned, not talking about other taxes in general)rawsavon

Does the .9% tax decrease incrementally down to a certain $ value or is 200,000 the floor for the tax?

If that is the floor, then it appears I would only be looking at a maximum 4-5% tax on my Health Care Package (not income) because make waay less than 200K...do I have that right?

If I do have that right (5% tax on Plan)...that is a SMALL price to pay to help people IMO

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Payroll taxes are going to be increased by .9% on individuals making more than 200,000 and families making more than 250,000. There is also a 10% tax on indoor tanning salons. I think that's it as far as taxes go. -Sun_Tzu-

Does the .9% tax decrease incrementally down to a certain $ value or is 200,000 the floor for the tax?

If that is the floor, then it appears I would only be looking at a maximum 4-5% tax on my Health Care Package (not income) because make waay less than 200K...do I have that right?

If I do have that right (5% tax on Plan)...that is a SMALL price to pay to help people IMO

Wow, this has become my biggest topic ever. Never expected this many responses :o

[QUOTE="njean777"]

umm no you tried to promote your line as a way to say its the governments job to help people. When the whole point of this nation was to get away from a overbearing government. So why would they want to impose government control on healthcare when thats what they were running away from?

-Sun_Tzu-

still they were running away from an overbearing government they had no freedom of religion, which would probably lead to less freedoms. The real reason america is here is cuz of freedom of religion. I wasnt alive then so i had no clue if they were more oppressed in england then just no having the right to practice their religion.

Wow, this has become my biggest topic ever. Never expected this many responses :o

On3ShotOneKill

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="njean777"]

umm no you tried to promote your line as a way to say its the governments job to help people. When the whole point of this nation was to get away from a overbearing government. So why would they want to impose government control on healthcare when thats what they were running away from?

njean777

still they were running away from an overbearing government they had no freedom of religion, which would probably lead to less freedoms. The real reason america is here is cuz of freedom of religion. I wasnt alive then so i had no clue if they were more oppressed in england then just no having the right to practice their religion.

You are talking about the Puritans. Who were completely different. And they didn't believe in freedom of religion.

[QUOTE="njean777"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] Let me be more explicit. This is only a hypothetical, not intended as anything else. You decide that you're going to take the risk of not having health insurance. You walk down the street tomorrow and some jerk shoots you for the money in your wallet. You're lying there on the sidewalk bleeding out. Fortunately, one of your neighbors sees you there and calls an ambulance. You are rushed to a hospital (kept alive along the way by hospital workers that would normally be paid for by health insurance that you do not have). Meanwhile, someone else working for the hospital (whose salary is paid for by the hospital...who makes their money by billing people who get their care, of which you are not one of them since you have no insurance) calls your family. They rush to the hospital to be by your side in your hour of need. But before you can actually be treated for medical care (since in this world we envision, NO care can be extended until it is paid for) some paperwork needs to be taken care of first. Your family is asked for your proof of insurance. Alas! You lack suck proof. "I'm very sorry Mrs. Njean777. We're just gonna have to let your husband die. Alternatively, you and all your family better pay up RIGHT NOW or he'll bleed out." Now, keep in mind, emergency medical care is far, FAR more expensive than preventative care. That's why most commercial companies in the U.S. so strongly encourage preventative medical care. It's where the saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" comes from. Things light heart attacks, cancer, liver failure, etc. tend to be more preventable than cureable. Alas, your family does not have liquid assets or proof thereof ready to hand over at a moment's notice to pay $200K for a very expensive operation. You die. Game over. If only there was some way where the risk of such things could be spread not over just your family. Or the thousand people you may have met in your lifetime. Imagine if the cost of your $200K treatment could be spread over a million people. It becomes very affordable at that point. This is obviously a dramatized example, but it serves the point. Emergency care, at present, is GUARANTEED in the U.S. But it is paid for in the form of higher premiums that all of us people who HAVE health insurance pay to the slackers who choose to roll the dice and take their chances.nocoolnamejim

like i said before you should have to pay for that emergency care, but it doesnt have to be up front but most hospitals make you pay a deductible anyways, it could be done through a plan like most hospitals will do.

Oh please they will make a plan that works for you. Most do. have you ever had to pay off any health bills?, cuz i know i have and im not the richest person in the world.

Im sorry but that is the reason sir or mam, have you ever read a history book or researched stuff on the internet?

British Colonists left England for the New World some time in the next century, many of the Puritans fleeing from religous persecution.

Im sorry but that is the reason sir or mam, have you ever read a history book or researched stuff on the internet?

British Colonists left England for the New World some time in the next century, many of the Puritans fleeing from religous persecution.

njean777

The Puritans had absolutely nothing to do with the American revolution. Their charter was revoked after a while because of things like the Salem Witch Trials. The American Revolution was about the British oppressing the English colonies by instilling ridiculous taxes, cutting off their trade, and denying them trial by jury in many cases.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"] Yeah. I don't think religion ever played a part in it. Unless you're talking about the Puritans, who were completely different people.njean777

Im sorry but that is the reason sir or mam, have you ever read a history book or researched stuff on the internet?

British Colonists left England for the New World some time in the next century, many of the Puritans fleeing from religous persecution.

Are you perchance familiar with the phrase"No taxation without representation"?

Oh please they will make a plan that works for you. Most do. have you ever had to pay off any health bills?, cuz i know i have and im not the richest person in the world.

njean777

[QUOTE="njean777"]

Im sorry but that is the reason sir or mam, have you ever read a history book or researched stuff on the internet?

British Colonists left England for the New World some time in the next century, many of the Puritans fleeing from religous persecution.

PannicAtack

The Puritans had absolutely nothing to do with the American revolution. Their charter was revoked after a while because of things like the Salem Witch Trials. The American Revolution was about the British oppressing the English colonies by instilling ridiculous taxes, cutting off their trade, and denying them trial by jury in many cases.

ok i stand corrected then, but as we can see the revolution was about a government crossing their bounds, just like they are trying to do today, by telling me i have to pay a tax on my healthcare and forcing me to have healthcare.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

[QUOTE="njean777"]

Im sorry but that is the reason sir or mam, have you ever read a history book or researched stuff on the internet?

British Colonists left England for the New World some time in the next century, many of the Puritans fleeing from religous persecution.

njean777

The Puritans had absolutely nothing to do with the American revolution. Their charter was revoked after a while because of things like the Salem Witch Trials. The American Revolution was about the British oppressing the English colonies by instilling ridiculous taxes, cutting off their trade, and denying them trial by jury in many cases.

ok i stand corrected then, but as we can see the revolution was about a government crossing their bounds, just like they are trying to do today, by telling me i have to pay a tax on my healthcare and forcing me to have healthcare.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="njean777"]

umm no you tried to promote your line as a way to say its the governments job to help people. When the whole point of this nation was to get away from a overbearing government. So why would they want to impose government control on healthcare when thats what they were running away from?

njean777

still they were running away from an overbearing government they had no freedom of religion, which would probably lead to less freedoms. The real reason america is here is cuz of freedom of religion. I wasnt alive then so i had no clue if they were more oppressed in england then just no having the right to practice their religion.

I think you might be confusing the American revolutionaries with the Puritans, who arrived to what would eventually become the U.S some time earlier.

[QUOTE="njean777"]

Oh please they will make a plan that works for you. Most do. have you ever had to pay off any health bills?, cuz i know i have and im not the richest person in the world.

nocoolnamejim

but the hospital under law has to give you care, after you are treated then they set up the payment plan, how is any taxpayer paying them during the operation if you are gonna pay for it after you set up the plan.

maybe i did miss something

ok i stand corrected then, but as we can see the revolution was about a government crossing their bounds, just like they are trying to do today, by telling me i have to pay a tax on my healthcare and forcing me to have healthcare.

njean777

The revolution was not over taxation, but, as I said above, taxation without representation. The American colonists had taxes levied on them, yet had no representation in the British Parliament, which caused them to be able to have a say over neither the nature of the taxes levied nor the way in which they were used.

Unless you are asserting that those whose taxes would be raised have no representation today in Congress, then it seems to me that you cannot assert that we are in the same situation that the colonists found themselves in.

I think you might be confusing the American revolutionaries with the Puritans, who arrived to what would eventually become the U.S some time earlier.

yes i was i corrected myself :oops:

[QUOTE="njean777"]

ok i stand corrected then, but as we can see the revolution was about a government crossing their bounds, just like they are trying to do today, by telling me i have to pay a tax on my healthcare and forcing me to have healthcare.

GabuEx

The revolution was not over taxation, but, as I said above, taxation without representation. The American colonists had taxes levied on them, yet had no representation in the British Parliament.

Unless you are asserting that those whose taxes would be raised have no representation today in Congress, then it seems to me that you cannot assert that we are in the same situation that the colonists found themselves in.

[QUOTE="njean777"]

ok i stand corrected then, but as we can see the revolution was about a government crossing their bounds, just like they are trying to do today, by telling me i have to pay a tax on my healthcare and forcing me to have healthcare.

GabuEx

The revolution was not over taxation, but, as I said above, taxation without representation. The American colonists had taxes levied on them, yet had no representation in the British Parliament, which caused them to be able to have a say over neither the nature of the taxes levied nor the way in which they were used.

Unless you are asserting that those whose taxes would be raised have no representation today in Congress, then it seems to me that you cannot assert that we are in the same situation that the colonists found themselves in.

they are gonna be raised though, most people from what i have seen dont want this (i do live in texas though :shock:), but the progressives are shoving it down our throat with out telling us the whole truth. So in a way we do not have any representation (the people). Now that they dont have the majority anymore they may not have the freedom to try to shove it down our throat.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="njean777"]

ok i stand corrected then, but as we can see the revolution was about a government crossing their bounds, just like they are trying to do today, by telling me i have to pay a tax on my healthcare and forcing me to have healthcare.

PannicAtack

The revolution was not over taxation, but, as I said above, taxation without representation. The American colonists had taxes levied on them, yet had no representation in the British Parliament.

Unless you are asserting that those whose taxes would be raised have no representation today in Congress, then it seems to me that you cannot assert that we are in the same situation that the colonists found themselves in.

still taxes had a significant part.

And it was about a heck of a lot more things than taxes. Denial of trial by jury in many cases, cutting off their trade, martial law...PannicAtack

Oh, absolutely, but taxation without representation was certainly a huge part of the colonists' beef with the Brits, and is the one most applicable to what I believe he's referring to.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

The revolution was not over taxation, but, as I said above, taxation without representation. The American colonists had taxes levied on them, yet had no representation in the British Parliament.

Unless you are asserting that those whose taxes would be raised have no representation today in Congress, then it seems to me that you cannot assert that we are in the same situation that the colonists found themselves in.

njean777

still taxes had a significant part.

No!

Taxes without representation!

Huge difference.

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="njean777"]

Oh please they will make a plan that works for you. Most do. have you ever had to pay off any health bills?, cuz i know i have and im not the richest person in the world.

njean777

but the hospital under law has to give you care, after you are treated then they set up the payment plan, how is any taxpayer paying them during the operation if you are gonna pay for it after you set up the plan.

maybe i did miss something

[QUOTE="njean777"]

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"] And it was about a heck of a lot more things than taxes. Denial of trial by jury in many cases, cutting off their trade, martial law...GabuEx

still taxes had a significant part.

No!

Taxes without representation!

Huge difference.

What's the point of being in the same party if you disagree on so much?Bourbons3

Wow, this has become my biggest topic ever. Never expected this many responses :o

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"]What's the point of being in the same party if you disagree on so much?fidosim

[QUOTE="istuffedsunny"]Who cares anymore? People need to stop having faith in this country. It's done withTjeremiah1988

Wow, this has become my biggest topic ever. Never expected this many responses :o

[QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"][QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] There are three types of threads that are virtually guaranteed to get at least 100 responses. 1. Religion 2. Politics 3. Popularity threads.PannicAtack

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"] Lol, glad I chose #2 :POn3ShotOneKill

[QUOTE="njean777"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] I'm not sure you're catching my point here. I'm not talking about working with the hospital administrators to work out a payment plan for something that will kill you over the course of a year or two like cancer. You have been shot. You do not have insurance. Unlike right now, where emergency treatment is guaranteed, there is no guarantee that the hospital gets reimbursed and therefore payment has to be settled before they can sew you back together. There's an urgency to this situation that I think you're missing. I'm sure, given time, the hospital would work with you and your family to come up with a payment plan. And you, lacking insurance, are a pretty good bet to eventually default and, because of the social safety nets already in place, become a ward of the government and end up relying upon taxpayer money when you later declared bankruptcy. But if the hospital did NOT provide care until payment was assured, and payment was not assured by folks who did not have insurance, then they would be forced to let you die rather than provide treatment. This is admittedly an extreme example, but in the scenario that you describe where it is everyone for themselves and "damnit the goverment shouldn't make me buy no stinkin' insurance" then it is also a realistic example of the risk you're taking.nocoolnamejim

but the hospital under law has to give you care, after you are treated then they set up the payment plan, how is any taxpayer paying them during the operation if you are gonna pay for it after you set up the plan.

maybe i did miss something

1. to tell you the truth i dont know

2. well true it may be hard but it can be done, i may be old fashioned but if you need to pay for something then get it paid for by any means necessary that dont endanger someone else.

Also another question i have is how do we know this supposed healthcare the government will make you have will be any good? does anybody know what the terms are to this healthcare they are trying to force on us? For all i know or you know it could all be just a giant waste of money if the care is not up to par with what i already have.

[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="Bourbons3"]What's the point of being in the same party if you disagree on so much?nocoolnamejim

Is that why the Dems decided to have little closed-door chats where Republicans (or anyone for that matter) weren't invited?

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"]

Wow, this has become my biggest topic ever. Never expected this many responses :o

On3ShotOneKill

1. to tell you the truth i dont know

2. well true it may be hard but it can be done, i may be old fashioned but if you need to pay for something then get it paid for by any means necessary that dont endanger someone else.

Also another question i have is how do we know this supposed healthcare the government will make you have will be any good? does anybody know what the terms are to this healthcare they are trying to force on us? For all i know or you know it could all be just a giant waste of money if the care is not up to par with what i already have.

njean777

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"]What's the point of being in the same party if you disagree on so much?fidosim

You know, I'd be more willing to believe Republicans wished for healthcare reform if they actually put together a bill. Or thought about putting together a bill. Or put forth some ideas for a bill. Or did pretty much anything related to healthcare besides oppose the Dems bill.

[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="Bourbons3"]What's the point of being in the same party if you disagree on so much?chessmaster1989

You know, I'd be more willing to believe Republicans wished for healthcare reform if they actually put together a bill. Or thought about putting together a bill. Or put forth some ideas for a bill. Or did pretty much anything related to healthcare besides oppose the Dems bill.

I was under the impression that Obama and Reid were unwilling to pass it through before Brown became seated.

honkyjoe

They've said basically they don't want any attempted shenanigans by the Dems, like holding up Brown's being seated so they can ram a new bill through. I don't think they said anything about the house...

Good. Maybe they'll scrap that piece of garbage and actually take some time and come up with a well thought out bill. They'll get more votes if they put more effort and thought into it. Most people want health reform, they just didnt want a rushed garbage bill.

Good. Maybe they'll scrap that piece of garbage and actually take some time and come up with a well thought out bill. They'll get more votes if they put more effort and thought into it. Most people want health reform, they just didnt want a rushed garbage bill.

sonicare

You know, I'd be more willing to believe Republicans wished for healthcare reform if they actually put together a bill. Or thought about putting together a bill. Or put forth some ideas for a bill. Or did pretty much anything related to healthcare besides oppose the Dems bill.

chessmaster1989