Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19911943
What are your thoughts on this? Should he have the right to wear that? Or not?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19911943
What are your thoughts on this? Should he have the right to wear that? Or not?
[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]If it is against their public order offence laws then I fail to see the problem. meconateIf it's against their laws then the problem is their laws. I once saw a guy wearing a t-shirt saying 'F*ck Emos' and the police didn't bat an eyelid. Yet somebody wears this and it's a whole different story. Not that I have any particular love for emos, I don't care either way. Right, yes, a shirt saying "f*ck emos* is definitely comparable to a shirt directed towards police officers just hours after two were killed. :roll: The man is a moron trying to intentionally offend the friends and family of two innocent officers gunned down. Whether you agree with his jailing or not, their law is still the law, this ditsh*t broke it, move on.
I think British TV is more lenient compared to American TV but I've never heard of any freedom of speech issues in terms of the legal department, I think this is a rare occurrence and yes it's offensive but I don't think he should be jailed no matter how retarded he is.The shirt is beyond stupid but he shouldn't have been jailed. I believe the UK has different laws regarding free speech.
Pirate700
[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] He expressed an opinion by wearing that shirt. Regardless of how stupid that opinion may be, he wasn't hurting anymore. Any law that says he can't express a harmless opinion is oppressive, immoral, and illegitimate.LaihendiWasn't hurting anyone? Yeah, because this definitely can't be considered harassment and offensive to the friends, families and fellow officers of those two officers killed just hours earlier. :roll: You're right, wearing a shirt cannot be considered harassment. Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it.
You're right, wearing a shirt cannot be considered harassment. Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it. I realize it's considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else found offensive was jailed, we would all be in jail.[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Wasn't hurting anyone? Yeah, because this definitely can't be considered harassment and offensive to the friends, families and fellow officers of those two officers killed just hours earlier. :roll: SaintLeonidas
[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it. I realize its considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else was offended by was jailed, we would all be in jail. You seem to have zero understanding off the intent of the shirt, what the statement was saying and the intended targets of the shirt. It was not simply an "opinion" as you claim it to be. It also does not is anyway fit in with the usual "offensive" statements someone might make. It was created hours after two officers were gunned down. It is not an opinion but a statement made solely to offend the friends, family and fellow officers of those killed; officers who were still in the town investigating the murders. Not to mention your claim that "we would all be in jail" is a laughable exaggeration. People are always making offensive statements. They aren't all jailed. It is usually very rare, and depending on the case and the backlash by those offended, most people are not jailed. In this case this moron was. He did something he knew would offend, he knew could possibly get him arrested, he broke the law. Oh well.[QUOTE="Laihendi"] You're right, wearing a shirt cannot be considered harassment.Laihendi
Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it. I realize it's considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else found offensive was jailed, we would all be in jail. I'm sorry that we have standards in England and don't take kindly to offensive morons.[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]
[QUOTE="Laihendi"] You're right, wearing a shirt cannot be considered harassment.Laihendi
[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it.SaintLeonidasI realize its considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else was offended by was jailed, we would all be in jail. You seem to have zero understanding off the intent of the shirt, what the statement was saying and the intended targets of the shirt. It was not simply an "opinion" as you claim it to be. It also does not is anyway fit in with the usual "offensive" statements someone might make. It was created hours after two officers were gunned down. It is not an opinion but a statement made solely to offend the friends, family and fellow officers of those killed; officers who were still in the town investigating the murders. Not to mention your claim that "we would all be in jail" is a laughable exaggeration. People are always making offensive statements. They aren't all jailed. It is usually very rare, and depending on the case and the backlash by those offended, most people are not jailed. In this case this moron was. He did something he knew would offend, he knew could possibly get him arrested, he broke the law. Oh well. You keep falling back on the "he broke the law" argument. I still don't think you understand me when I say there shouldn't be a law against what he did. You don't know what his motivation was, but even if he was deliberately trying to offend people, his method of expressing himself was passive and unobtrusive.
And obviously I'm aware that we're not all jailed when someone is offended by us. I'm saying that no one should be jailed for doing something that someone takes offense to. Offending people is harmless and unavoidable, and when someone is offended by something it his own fault for concerning himself with the business of someone else. People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it.
Using your attempt at logic, if enough people on this forum found your signature (a violent man with a gun!) offensive, it would be justifiable to arrest you and send you to jail.
The UK has many ridiculous laws against "hate speech" and other forms of expression that people find distasteful. The US is the only country that truly has free speech, except the media is heavily censored, ironically. Speech is far too limited in every country in the world, some more than others.Rhazakna
I would say America is superior in that regard, you can say whatever you want as long as it doesn't cause a panic, or threatens the life of another individual.
'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,'
-Voltaire/Evelyn Hall
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]I realize it's considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else found offensive was jailed, we would all be in jail. I'm sorry that we have standards in England and don't take kindly to offensive morons.Your country is run by an oppressive authoritarian regime that arrests people for violating arbitrary standards of decency.[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it.
SolidSnake35
You seem to have zero understanding off the intent of the shirt, what the statement was saying and the intended targets of the shirt. It was not simply an "opinion" as you claim it to be. It also does not is anyway fit in with the usual "offensive" statements someone might make. It was created hours after two officers were gunned down. It is not an opinion but a statement made solely to offend the friends, family and fellow officers of those killed; officers who were still in the town investigating the murders. Not to mention your claim that "we would all be in jail" is a laughable exaggeration. People are always making offensive statements. They aren't all jailed. It is usually very rare, and depending on the case and the backlash by those offended, most people are not jailed. In this case this moron was. He did something he knew would offend, he knew could possibly get him arrested, he broke the law. Oh well. You keep falling back on the "he broke the law" argument. I still don't think you understand me when I say there shouldn't be a law against what he did. You don't know what his motivation was, but even if he was deliberately trying to offend people, his method of expressing himself was passive and unobtrusive.[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] I realize its considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else was offended by was jailed, we would all be in jail.Laihendi
And obviously I'm aware that we're not all jailed when someone is offended by us. I'm saying that no one should be jailed for doing something that someone takes offense to. Offending people is harmless and unavoidable, and when someone is offended by something it his own fault for concerning himself with the business of someone else. People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it.
Using your attempt at logic, if enough people on this forum found your signature (a violent man with a gun!) offensive, it would be justifiable to arrest you and send you to jail.
But it is the law. If you don't like it move to the UK and try to get it removed. But until it is, the law is the law, you break it you go to jail. Doesn't matter if you agree with the law or not, the simple fact that it is law and he did break it makes this story rather pointless.
"People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it" only someone with the simplest mind could think that ignoring such a thing would be so easy to those it targetted considering the context.
A context that you clearly have ignored. If he had just been wearing that shirt on any other day, even if people took offense, nothing would have happened. It is the context of the story, when he did it, where, the clear motivation behind it, that made what would normally be an "ignorable" offensive statement to clear harassment and intent to hurt, emotionally, those connected to the peole killed. Again trying to make comparisions like my thread or as someone posted earlier a "f*ck emos" t-shirt is laughable.
Hurting someone's feeling should not be against the law, under any circumstances.But it is the law. If you don't like it move to the UK and try to get it removed. But until it is, the law is the law, you break it you go to jail. Doesn't matter if you agree with the law or not, the simple fact that it is law and he did break it makes this story rather pointless.
"People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it" only someone with the simplest mind could think that ignoring such a thing would be so easy to those it targetted considering the context.
A context that you clearly have ignored. If he had just been wearing that shirt on any other day, even if people took offense, nothing would have happened. It is the context of the story, when he did it, where, the clear motivation behind it, that made what would normally be an "ignorable" offensive statement to clear harassment and intent to hurt, emotionally, those connected to the peole killed. Again trying to make comparisions like my thread or as someone posted earlier a "f*ck emos" t-shirt is laughable.
SaintLeonidas
You can't do that here ._.Some off duty cops should have just beat the hell out of him haha He was asking for something.
SouL-Tak3R
The guy's a sicko, but he shouldn't have been jailed for wearing that. It wasn't a personal threat or anything.
God bless,
Crushmaster.
You seem to have zero understanding off the intent of the shirt, what the statement was saying and the intended targets of the shirt. It was not simply an "opinion" as you claim it to be. It also does not is anyway fit in with the usual "offensive" statements someone might make. It was created hours after two officers were gunned down. It is not an opinion but a statement made solely to offend the friends, family and fellow officers of those killed; officers who were still in the town investigating the murders. Not to mention your claim that "we would all be in jail" is a laughable exaggeration. People are always making offensive statements. They aren't all jailed. It is usually very rare, and depending on the case and the backlash by those offended, most people are not jailed. In this case this moron was. He did something he knew would offend, he knew could possibly get him arrested, he broke the law. Oh well. You keep falling back on the "he broke the law" argument. I still don't think you understand me when I say there shouldn't be a law against what he did. You don't know what his motivation was, but even if he was deliberately trying to offend people, his method of expressing himself was passive and unobtrusive.[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] I realize its considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else was offended by was jailed, we would all be in jail.Laihendi
And obviously I'm aware that we're not all jailed when someone is offended by us. I'm saying that no one should be jailed for doing something that someone takes offense to. Offending people is harmless and unavoidable, and when someone is offended by something it his own fault for concerning himself with the business of someone else. People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it.
Using your attempt at logic, if enough people on this forum found your signature (a violent man with a gun!) offensive, it would be justifiable to arrest you and send you to jail.
This isn't the United States.. Not every one has the same limits and guidelines for free speech..
Meh, in principle he shouldn't have been jailed and should have been allowed to wear the T-shirt, but I have no sympathy for the scum. It has to be a terrible experience for the friends and family, and this shirt just makes it that much worse.
Voltaire (I think): "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
UK: "I disapprove of what you say, therefor, jail"
Funny how times have "changed", eh?
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment