Can someone tell what is wrong with elitism?

It has bothered me for a while, especially involving education. The media uses this word whenever a school or university refuses to accept people below a certain standard. I have no idea how this is meant to do anything. Isn't that the point? To give the moe intelligent a better enviroment to work in and cleverer peers with which to work?

I am actually on of those people that supports the idea that in an election some people's votes should count for more than others.

Shouldn't a person with a degree in economics or in politics or who knows something about how a country is run have more say in the running than say a brick-layer who left school at 16 with no qualifications?

Inequality?

I don't know.

It has bothered me for a while, especially involving education. The media uses this word whenever a school or university refuses to accept people below a certain standard. I have no idea how this is meant to do anything. Isn't that the point? To give the moe intelligent a better enviroment to work in and cleverer peers with which to work?

I am actually on of those people that supports the idea that in an election some people's votes should count for more than others.

Shouldn't a person with a degree in economics or in politics or who knows something about how a country is run have more say in the running than say a brick-layer who left school at 16 with no qualifications?

AnObscureName

No I hate Elitism, everyone should have the same opportunities. Your just perpetuating the class system and and oppression of the working class. I bricklayer who left school at 16 has as much right to decide how his country is run as a professor, a brick layer may vote for different reasons. He may vote Labour because they promise new parks in his area for his children. Whereas your intellectual genius elite who i'm sure you profess to be may vote conservative for some other far more important reason. Each has as much right to vote and no vote should be worth more than another. swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]No I hate Elitism, everyone should have the same opportunities. Your just perpetuating the class system and and oppression of the working class. I bricklayer who left school at 16 has as much right to decide how his country is run as a professor, a brick layer may vote for different reasons. He may vote Labour because they promise new parks in his area for his children. Whereas your intellectual genius elite who i'm sure you profess to be may vote conservative for some other far more important reason. Each has as much right to vote and no vote should be worth more than another. AnObscureName

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"] Yes everyone should have the same opportunities but why then should a university or school have to lower it's standard to let in more student's from "deprived areas". AirGuitarist87

An elitist generally isn't someone who just happens to be more intelligent or more capable than others or whatnot; it's someone who uses that fact to assert that he or she is in some way better than those who aren't and is deserving of special treatment as a result. Elitists also tend to believe that there is a fundamental divide between "them" and "us" and that people should be treated with disdain who try to cross that divide.

None of this is particularly conducive to a functioning society.

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="AnObscureName"] Yes everyone should have the same opportunities but why then should a university or school have to lower it's standard to let in more student's from "deprived areas". AnObscureName

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="AnObscureName"] Yes everyone should have the same opportunities but why then should a university or school have to lower it's standard to let in more student's from "deprived areas". swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="AnObscureName"] Yes everyone should have the same opportunities but why then should a university or school have to lower it's standard to let in more student's from "deprived areas". AnObscureName

Have you thought that they might be accepting poorer people because they have the intellectual capacity to achieve at higher education? Your financial background isn't that much of a factor on your intelligence. If these poor people can't handle university then they would drop out and (presumingly) not be able to pay their tuition fees because they're no longer in education, thus making the universities out of pocket by around 3,000 Pound Sterling.

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"] I may be reading that wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that poor people aren't very intelligent.AnObscureName

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"][QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"] I may be reading that wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that poor people aren't very intelligent.AirGuitarist87

Have you thought that they might be accepting poorer people because they have the intellectual capacity to achieve at higher education? Your financial background isn't that much of a factor on your intelligence. If these poor people can't handle university then they would drop out and (presumingly) not be able to pay their tuition fees because they're no longer in education, thus making the universities out of pocket by around 3,000 Pound Sterling.

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"]

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"] No I am suggesting that it is wrong to accept poorer people for the sake of having poorer people in the better universities. AnObscureName

Have you thought that they might be accepting poorer people because they have the intellectual capacity to achieve at higher education? Your financial background isn't that much of a factor on your intelligence. If these poor people can't handle university then they would drop out and (presumingly) not be able to pay their tuition fees because they're no longer in education, thus making the universities out of pocket by around 3,000 Pound Sterling.

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"][QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"]

Have you thought that they might be accepting poorer people because they have the intellectual capacity to achieve at higher education? Your financial background isn't that much of a factor on your intelligence. If these poor people can't handle university then they would drop out and (presumingly) not be able to pay their tuition fees because they're no longer in education, thus making the universities out of pocket by around 3,000 Pound Sterling.

swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="AnObscureName"] Yes and I am all for accepting people from poorer backgrounds if they have the intellectual capacity. I object as I have said many times already to lowering the entry requirements purely to accept poorer people.AnObscureName

Yes and I am all for accepting people from poorer backgrounds if they have the intellectual capacity. I object as I have said many times already to lowering the entry requirements purely to accept poorer people.AnObscureName

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"] Why? For instance, if a math prodigy has gone to very poor schools, have not been supported by their parents and have not had the tools they require they may have achieved badly purely do to that should they not be at the point of adulthood given better opportunities? swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"]Yes and I am all for accepting people from poorer backgrounds if they have the intellectual capacity. I object as I have said many times already to lowering the entry requirements purely to accept poorer people.AirGuitarist87

I'm meaning things like this this.

I'm meaning things like this this.

AnObscureName

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"]

I'm meaning things like this this.

AirGuitarist87

These two are more to the point then.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2989338/Oxford-University-must-try-harder-to-recruit-deprived-students.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2602416/Britains-top-universities-favouring-the-poor.html

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="AnObscureName"]

I'm meaning things like this this.

AnObscureName

These two are more to the point then.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2989338/Oxford-University-must-try-harder-to-recruit-deprived-students.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2602416/Britains-top-universities-favouring-the-poor.html

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="AnObscureName"]

I'm meaning things like this this.

AnObscureName

These two are more to the point then.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2989338/Oxford-University-must-try-harder-to-recruit-deprived-students.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2602416/Britains-top-universities-favouring-the-poor.html

It is not fair if poor people cannot access a good education just because of being poor, and it isn't fair either if rich people can access it just for being rich. It isn't also fair to treat equally people that are not equal, and not all the people are equal, that's for sure.

People should get what they deserve and money is not a merit, to access education it should be proved that it is going to be well used, this means that it should be proved that the people accessing a higher/harder education should be clever enough to handle the concepts relative to that education, to prove this al the people should have the same opportunities, independently of race, economic situation, gender, etc.

In fact, people shouldn't vote, a commitee made of the experts in a matter should decide in that matter under some equality principles that guarantee that their decision is the best for the common good, and not biased towards their interest. In the end, if the ethical criteria (these principles) and the technical criteria (those related with the expertise of the people making the decision) are clear and specific enough (and they should be) the decision would consist merely on appliying these criteria, and it wouldn't matter who is the person applying them.

There are many politics in the world, and many people that are not politics but study subjects related with politics, they should create this criteria for once, with the shared effort it would be feasible, I have no doubt about it, and the world would be a much better place.

Is it ok if I'm a metal elitist?NecroKvltMuffin

Teach me your ways. Mighty god of rock and roll. :)

Nothing is wrong with elitism. Far too many people confuse it with arrogance.

We should strive to only accept the best from everyone. Why would we not send our best and most "elite" athletes to the Olympics? Why would we not want our smartest and most qualified scientists researching new medical treatments?

Thinking "I'm better than you because of X" is not elitism, it is just plain stupidity and arrogance. Some people are more qualified than others to do certain things, that does not make them an overall "better person."
foxhound_fox

Agreed. Good post!

It's rather ridiculous when people feel the need to apologize for simply being better equipped to understand a field than the majority, or when they are belittled as arrogant twits for asserting that truth to others. Ironically, arrogance is just as often found in those who know little about a field but feel that their uneducated opinion is every bit as valid as someone who knows a great deal about the field. So those who scream 'elitist' are often as arrogant as the people they accuse of elitism.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]Nothing is wrong with elitism. Far too many people confuse it with arrogance.

We should strive to only accept the best from everyone. Why would we not send our best and most "elite" athletes to the Olympics? Why would we not want our smartest and most qualified scientists researching new medical treatments?

Thinking "I'm better than you because of X" is not elitism, it is just plain stupidity and arrogance. Some people are more qualified than others to do certain things, that does not make them an overall "better person."
pianist

Agreed. Good post!

It's rather ridiculous when people feel the need to apologize for simply being better equipped to understand a field than the majority, or when they are belittled as arrogant twits for asserting that truth to others. Ironically, arrogance is just as often found in those who know little about a field but feel that their uneducated opinion is every bit as valid as someone who knows a great deal about the field. So those who scream 'elitist' are often as arrogant as the people they accuse of elitism.

Pianist,

Do you think the same line of thought works with MMORPG's as well?

Pianist,

Do you think the same line of thought works with MMORPG's as well?

Meeeko

To be honest, I've never played one. The basic idea of the genre never much appealed to me, so I wouldn't know. Are you talking about people who look down on those who play them?

Eh....look what happened in Nazi Germany.Devour2Survive

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="AnObscureName"] Yes everyone should have the same opportunities but why then should a university or school have to lower it's standard to let in more student's from "deprived areas". AnObscureName

If a poor person gets a B and a rich person gets an A, who is the most suited for the placement? We cannot tell because the rich person was in a better environment to get a higher grade. For all we know the poor person is the most intelligent and will be better suited to further education.

Sorry if that has already been said.

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"][QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"] I may be reading that wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that poor people aren't very intelligent.BeepBoop16

If a poor person gets a B and a rich person gets an A, who is the most suited for the placement? We cannot tell because the rich person was in a better environment to get a higher grade. For all we know the poor person is the most intelligent and will be better suited to further education.

Sorry if that has already been said.

Most likley the rich person was in a more competetive school in the first place, so that person's grade was harder to earn.

It has bothered me for a while, especially involving education. The media uses this word whenever a school or university refuses to accept people below a certain standard. I have no idea how this is meant to do anything. Isn't that the point? To give the moe intelligent a better enviroment to work in and cleverer peers with which to work?

I am actually on of those people that supports the idea that in an election some people's votes should count for more than others.

Shouldn't a person with a degree in economics or in politics or who knows something about how a country is run have more say in the running than say a brick-layer who left school at 16 with no qualifications?

AnObscureName

absolutly not. this idea has bothered me for a while now, do you really think because money bought your education that you are more intelligent than someone? do you really think that? i hate to burst the tiny bubble around your head but most of what they teach you in this "education system" is what they want you to hear, so you can become a better worker for them. you allow yourself to become so sheltered and pretentious that you actually shut your brain off to everything else that wasn't taught to you. ill give you a little advice, intelligence comes from within, not from the knowledge that you had to pay for.

what do we get from these "highly education" types? better liars, thats what.

so thanks but no thanks, ill take the brick layer.

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"]

It has bothered me for a while, especially involving education. The media uses this word whenever a school or university refuses to accept people below a certain standard. I have no idea how this is meant to do anything. Isn't that the point? To give the moe intelligent a better enviroment to work in and cleverer peers with which to work?

I am actually on of those people that supports the idea that in an election some people's votes should count for more than others.

Shouldn't a person with a degree in economics or in politics or who knows something about how a country is run have more say in the running than say a brick-layer who left school at 16 with no qualifications?

x_Martyr_x

absolutly not. this idea has bothered me for a while now, do you really think because money bought your education that you are more intelligent than someone? do you really think that? i hate to burst the tiny bubble around your head but most of what they teach you in this "education system" is what they want you to hear, so you can become a better worker for them. you allow yourself to become so sheltered and pretentious that you actually shut your brain off to everything else that wasn't taught to you. ill give you a little advice, intelligence comes from within, not from the knowledge that you had to pay for.

what do we get from these "highly education" types? better liars, thats what.

so thanks but no thanks, ill take the brick layer.

People are mislead. Money does not buy you an education. Colleges are looking for diversity now, so money hardly factors. Especially with schools that have huge endowments.

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"] I may be reading that wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that poor people aren't very intelligent.AnObscureName

are you talking about private or public education?

[QUOTE="BeepBoop16"]

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"] No I am suggesting that it is wrong to accept poorer people for the sake of having poorer people in the better universities. stupid4

If a poor person gets a B and a rich person gets an A, who is the most suited for the placement? We cannot tell because the rich person was in a better environment to get a higher grade. For all we know the poor person is the most intelligent and will be better suited to further education.

Sorry if that has already been said.

Most likley the rich person was in a more competetive school in the first place, so that person's grade was harder to earn.

It's more to do with the quality of the teaching. If you get sent to a £4000/year private school, you're gonna have 1 to 1 tutoring, small class sizes, help on demand inside or outside lessons, rigorous coaching for exams/interviews/coursework and those schools can squeeze an A or two out of even the 'moderately able'. Whereas if you attend a crowded, short staffed school in a low income area, you'll get none of those things. getting straight Bs at one of those poorer schools may well require a greater natural ability than attaining straight As at the private school.

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"]

It has bothered me for a while, especially involving education. The media uses this word whenever a school or university refuses to accept people below a certain standard. I have no idea how this is meant to do anything. Isn't that the point? To give the moe intelligent a better enviroment to work in and cleverer peers with which to work?

I am actually on of those people that supports the idea that in an election some people's votes should count for more than others.

Shouldn't a person with a degree in economics or in politics or who knows something about how a country is run have more say in the running than say a brick-layer who left school at 16 with no qualifications?

x_Martyr_x

absolutly not. this idea has bothered me for a while now, do you really think because money bought your education that you are more intelligent than someone? do you really think that? i hate to burst the tiny bubble around your head but most of what they teach you in this "education system" is what they want you to hear, so you can become a better worker for them. you allow yourself to become so sheltered and pretentious that you actually shut your brain off to everything else that wasn't taught to you. ill give you a little advice, intelligence comes from within, not from the knowledge that you had to pay for.

what do we get from these "highly education" types? better liars, thats what.

so thanks but no thanks, ill take the brick layer.