Cardinal Egan: "abortion equivalent to Nazism".

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Theokhoth

I never said it was. It's anti-man. Moderate pro-choicers, however, are viewed as anti-woman by the more hardcore pro-choicers who think pro-life = sexism.

Godwin's law. lol.

/thread

Plus, why should abortion ever be neccessary, if your too stupid to know if you want a baby or not, I think you dont have the right to murder for your stupiditySegaGenesisfan

Godwin's law. lol.

/thread

Shad0ki11

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]And your proof is this is...?Theokhoth

How exactly would you go about proving that?

Strawman; I never said it was unprovable.:roll:

Nobody has the right to murder; everybody has the right to stop murder. Simple.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Jandurin

I never said it was. It's anti-man. Moderate pro-choicers, however, are viewed as anti-woman by the more hardcore pro-choicers who think pro-life = sexism.

Murder is illegal, yet it is still committed.

Rape is illegal, yet it is still committed.

Let's open up murder and rape houses, so that people can be more safe in doing it. :roll:

"People doing it anyway" is not and never has been justification for legalising something. Ever.

Some may argue that people don't deserve to be in good health when they break the law.

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]

Godwin's law. lol.

/thread

Jandurin

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Theokhoth

I never said it was. It's anti-man. Moderate pro-choicers, however, are viewed as anti-woman by the more hardcore pro-choicers who think pro-life = sexism.

Murder is illegal, yet it is still committed.

Rape is illegal, yet it is still committed.

Let's open up murder and rape houses, so that people can be more safe in doing it. :roll:

"People doing it anyway" is not and never has been justification for legalising something. Ever.

Some may argue that people don't deserve to be in good health when they break the law.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Jandurin

I never said it was. It's anti-man. Moderate pro-choicers, however, are viewed as anti-woman by the more hardcore pro-choicers who think pro-life = sexism.

Murder is illegal, yet it is still committed.

Rape is illegal, yet it is still committed.

Let's open up murder and rape houses, so that people can be more safe in doing it. :roll:

"People doing it anyway" is not and never has been justification for legalising something. Ever.

Some may argue that people don't deserve to be in good health when they break the law.

:lol: Semantics. Call it government-sanctioned murder, or simply "killing an innocent person for no good reason."

i could care less what he says, untill cardinal egan and the pope can carry a baby in their bodies for nine months and experience the pain of birth, then they can talk

prolife = antiwomen

also wasnt the church involved in the nazi movement?

prolife = antiwomen

legend26

These women would like a word with you.

[QUOTE="legend26"]

prolife = antiwomen

Theokhoth

These women would like a word with you.

:lol: Semantics. Call it government-sanctioned murder, or simply "killing an innocent person for no good reason."

Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="legend26"]

prolife = antiwomen

Jandurin

These women would like a word with you.

:lol: Semantics. Call it government-sanctioned murder, or simply "killing an innocent person for no good reason."

Theokhoth

I can't help but feel like that was a shot. . .

I can't help but feel like that was a shot. . .

Theokhoth

Well the Cardinal needs to be educated on Nazism and abortion I guess, because apparently he doesnt know squat about the two...maybe he should ask the Pope about the Nazism...

Yeah, nothing says Nazism like giving women the right to choose to kill children.Darth_Tyrev

All fixed.

[QUOTE="Darth_Tyrev"]Yeah, nothing says Nazism like giving women the right to choose to kill children.Theokhoth

All fixed.

i dont see were you fixed it? I actually think your made a mistake there with the whole children thing...

why are we people even getting into this damn abortion debate again...itll never end, and its use less.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]And your proof is this is...?Theokhoth

How exactly would you go about proving that?

Strawman; I never said it was unprovable.:roll:

Nobody has the right to murder; everybody has the right to stop murder. Simple.

You make it sound like its universal fact that people consider it murder.. ALot of people do not, many people believe human life does not start out of conception.. Get off your high horse, your "moral highground" and understand people have different points of view on the matter. The point being is no one is for abortion, but in the end they feel it crosses the line in liberty that is unethical. If abortion is so henious let that person answer to god, you have plenty of people to save, start with the millions of adults and children who are suffering and dieing around the world due to starvation and/or easilly curable dieases.

You make it sound like its universal fact that people consider it murder.. ALot of people do not

sSubZerOo

It doesn't matter whether someone does or doesn't consider murder to be murder. By that silly "logic," we should release all murderers; after all, they don't consider themselves to be murderers. They were just killing objects as far as they're concerned.

Since they don't think they committed murder, they therefore did not.:roll:

Nobody has the right to murder; everybody has the right to stop murder. Simple. Theokhoth

prolife = antiwomenlegend26

This pretty much neatly sums up exactly why I hate abortion debates. One side assumes it's murder as their premise and goes from there. The other side assumes it isn't murder as their premise and goes from there. How either side expect to produce anything whatsoever from talking about it, given their presupposed unassailable truths, confuses the heck out of me.

Since they don't think they committed murder, they therefore did not.:roll:

Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Since they don't think they committed murder, they therefore did not.:roll:

Jandurin

There are things that supersede the law. Such as fundamental human rights. We wouldn't consider slavery to be freedom for the simple reason that it's government-sanctioned.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Since they don't think they committed murder, they therefore did not.:roll:

Theokhoth

There are things that supersede the law. Such as fundamental human rights. We wouldn't consider slavery to be freedom for the simple reason that it's government-sanctioned.

Since they don't think they committed murder, they therefore did not.:roll:

Theokhoth

If anyone kills a human being who has been born and then honestly believes that he did not just kill a human being, I think it's safe to say that that person needs mental help.

That situation and the situation of an early-term abortion are completely incomparable. But, like I said, you're completely 100% unwilling to even consider the idea that it isn't murder, which makes this conversation entirely pointless.

Why do you keep comparing abortion to slavery? :lol:Jandurin

Because they're both violations of fundamental human rights, both dehumanised people to clear the conscience of those involved, and both were supported by large amounts of people. The only difference between the two is that one is still legal, while the other isn't.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Why do you keep comparing abortion to slavery? :lol:Theokhoth

Because they're both violations of fundamental human rights, both dehumanised people to clear the conscience of those involved, and both were supported by large amounts of people. The only difference between the two is that one is still legal, while the other isn't.

I guess I don't see the little unborn 'un as human. Sorry. Sure, I guess it'll one day become a worm baby, but not while it's merely a bunch of stuff all gooed together trying to develop.Jandurin

All humans are is a bunch of stuff all gooed together trying to develop.:lol: Everything boils down to basic levels of cellular life. Embryos start at the bottom (like everything else) and work their way to a non-existent top; humans NEVER stop developing until they die, so technically we're ALL just stuff trying to develop.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Theokhoth

I never said it was. It's anti-man. Moderate pro-choicers, however, are viewed as anti-woman by the more hardcore pro-choicers who think pro-life = sexism.

Murder is illegal, yet it is still committed.

Rape is illegal, yet it is still committed.

Let's open up murder and rape houses, so that people can be more safe in doing it. :roll:

"People doing it anyway" is not and never has been justification for legalising something. Ever.

Some may argue that people don't deserve to be in good health when they break the law.

But they arnt breaking the law:)

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]And your proof is this is...?Funky_Llama

How exactly would you go about proving that?

Strawman; I never said it was unprovable.:roll:

Nobody has the right to murder; everybody has the right to stop murder. Simple.

Meet

Any response, Theokhoth?Funky_Llama

What's to respond to? I told you what I said; that's the end of it.:|

[QUOTE="Ontain"]didn't the Church support the Nazi movement?markop2003

they were the biggest oposition though they did agree with some of his ideas on family values, that's why he made his own church called the reich church

yea but they were neutral in the war that's why people think they supported Nazis. but in all reality they could either be neutral or hitler could destroy 1000's of years worth of holy relics and completely destroy the vatican. mainly the reason the church was neutral. But they did help thousands of Jews hide out during the war..

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Why do you keep comparing abortion to slavery? :lol:Theokhoth

Because they're both violations of fundamental human rights, both dehumanised people to clear the conscience of those involved, and both were supported by large amounts of people. The only difference between the two is that one is still legal, while the other isn't.

I love how you people are so sentimental towards humans? Why so? Animals feel pain, too. They also feel sadness. If it's wrong to kill a form of human that feels no pain and is not conscious in any way. Why should we kill animals? We don't NEED animals for food. It's basically for pleasure at the expense of killing another living creature. Which sounds a lot like abortion doesn't it?

I love how you people are so sentimental towards humans? Why so? Animals feel pain, too. They also feel sadness. If it's wrong to kill a form of human that feels no pain and is not conscious in any way. Why should we kill animals? We don't NEED animals for food. It's basically for pleasure at the expense of killing another living creature.

munu9

Plants feel pain, too.:| We as humans need to eat, we DO need animals for food (ever see a vegetarian? They can live without meat, but that's it), andhumans >>>>>>>> animals.

Animals aren't humans. Bad try.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Why do you keep comparing abortion to slavery? :lol:munu9

Because they're both violations of fundamental human rights, both dehumanised people to clear the conscience of those involved, and both were supported by large amounts of people. The only difference between the two is that one is still legal, while the other isn't.

I love how you people are so sentimental towards humans? Why so? Animals feel pain, too. They also feel sadness. If it's wrong to kill a form of human that feels no pain and is not conscious in any way. Why should we kill animals? We don't NEED animals for food. It's basically for pleasure at the expense of killing another living creature. Which sounds a lot like abortion doesn't it?

I have absolutely no problem with killing people or animals when it comes to self defense, hunting, and stopping crime. Criminal decides to resist and fight back? Blow his head off. I don't care.

It does not bother me in the slightest. The reason I feel bad for the baby is that it is a human baby, not an animal, and not a criminal or a crazy AK wielding carbomber or psychopath aremed with a knife.

I'm aware of the potential for faults in such a line of thinking, but I can't really help myself there, now can I?

[QUOTE="munu9"]

I love how you people are so sentimental towards humans? Why so? Animals feel pain, too. They also feel sadness. If it's wrong to kill a form of human that feels no pain and is not conscious in any way. Why should we kill animals? We don't NEED animals for food. It's basically for pleasure at the expense of killing another living creature.

Theokhoth

Plants feel pain, too.:| We as humans need to eat, we DO need animals for food (ever see a vegetarian? They can live without meat, but that's it), andhumans >>>>>>>> animals.

Animals aren't humans. Bad try.

I'm a vegetarian- what's your point? And plants feel pain? :lol:

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Why do you keep comparing abortion to slavery? :lol:Theokhoth

Because they're both violations of fundamental human rights, both dehumanised people to clear the conscience of those involved, and both were supported by large amounts of people. The only difference between the two is that one is still legal, while the other isn't.

Fundemental human rights don't apply to something that isn't Human.

Plants feel pain, too.:| We as humans need to eat, we DO need animals for food (ever see a vegetarian? They can live without meat, but that's it), andhumans >>>>>>>> animals.

Animals aren't humans. Bad try.

Theokhoth

Plants don't feel pain, and humans ARE animals.

[QUOTE="munu9"]

I love how you people are so sentimental towards humans? Why so? Animals feel pain, too. They also feel sadness. If it's wrong to kill a form of human that feels no pain and is not conscious in any way. Why should we kill animals? We don't NEED animals for food. It's basically for pleasure at the expense of killing another living creature.

Theokhoth

Plants feel pain, too.:| We as humans need to eat, we DO need animals for food (ever see a vegetarian? They can live without meat, but that's it), andhumans >>>>>>>> animals.

Animals aren't humans. Bad try.

Plants don't feel pain, and they have no emotions. To live and to live healthy, again we don't NEED meat. And tell me again, why are animals superior to humans. (I don't necissarily believe this but I'm trying to disprove you with a paradox). An animal feels pain and has lower level emotions, too. They can't talk or understand things. But death itself is as horrible for them as it is for us.

I have absolutely no problem with killing people or animals when it comes to self defense, hunting, and stopping crime. Criminal decides to resist and fight back? Blow his head off. I don't care.

It does not bother me in the slightest. The reason I feel bad for the baby is that it is a human baby, not an animal, and not a criminal or a crazy AK wielding carbomber or psychopath aremed with a knife.

I'm aware of the potential for faults in such a line of thinking, but I can't really help myself there, now can I?

munu9

Actually, depending on how early abortion is, a fetus is not a baby. Only 1 or two months in. The fetus is closer to a protist than a human.