Christianity: Satan does what God wants

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="pdevil21"]

If the Christian God thinks he cannot make souls to live in humans on Earth without ultimately torturing some in Hell for eternity, then why is having humanity worth it? Wouldn't the benevolent choice be to not make humanity?

pdevil21

Did God get "pregnant" with the creation of humanity or something? How was it not under his control to not start making it? You can't abort a project you never started.

This is my take on this. God existed before time and before he made the world, I can't wrap my mind around how this is but this is what The Bible states. Now God was with the son and the holy spirit and was perfectly content pouring love on each of the other two and those two pouring love on the other two which is the Holy Trinity One, God but three persons. So if God was so content with this why did he create humans? Well I believe it's because God's love and grace was so much it overflowed from Him and so He created humans for the purpose that we would share in his joy and love by glorifying Him.

So we have Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. To shorten it up, these two were tempted by Satan and chose to listen to Satan rather than God and caused sin to enter their lives. Since that moment we have been cursed because we chose to not depend on God but ourselves for our identity, and so to make a long story short we have this corrupt world we live in today. For the result of sin is death so whoever lives a life of sin can't live. But God knew what would happen (he knows all) and so since that moment when our first parents sinned he promised the coming of His Son to pay the price for sin, so we can be redeemed through Christ by grace, so we are not condemned to Hell but can be with God as sons and daughters.

God created us because he loved us. And believe it or not, he doesn't torture us.Fundai

[QUOTE="pdevil21"]

[QUOTE="psx_warrior"]First, hell is not satan's domain. It was created for him and the angels that followed him against God and His angels. Second, God doesn't send anybody to hell. People go of their own free will. God gives them a choice. Give your heart to Jesus Christ, and Heaven is your eternal home. Reject Him, and you make hell your eternal home. You gotta understand that satan is already doomed to hell. Also, God has forseen that a lot of people have chosen hell as their home. This is why people have a hard time perceiving that predestination and personal choice aren't mutually exclusive. God knew us before we were born, and he knew what we would choose, but we have to be free to make the choices of where we want to go. This is why God hardened Pharoah's heart when he had decided to let God's people go. God used Pharoah to show the children of Israel that He would take care of them. Pharoah served false gods, so his fate had already been sealed. hope this helps.Fundai

Why does God need these other beings? If he thinks to have other beings, he must torture some of them, then why make them? Why can't he be satisfied with himself and torutring no one?

Are people tortured in Hell?

[QUOTE="NiKva"][QUOTE="pdevil21"]

So Lucifer tempted Jesus under Jesus's own command?

pdevil21

Luke 4

[QUOTE="pdevil21"]

[QUOTE="psx_warrior"]First, hell is not satan's domain. It was created for him and the angels that followed him against God and His angels. Second, God doesn't send anybody to hell. People go of their own free will. God gives them a choice. Give your heart to Jesus Christ, and Heaven is your eternal home. Reject Him, and you make hell your eternal home. You gotta understand that satan is already doomed to hell. Also, God has forseen that a lot of people have chosen hell as their home. This is why people have a hard time perceiving that predestination and personal choice aren't mutually exclusive. God knew us before we were born, and he knew what we would choose, but we have to be free to make the choices of where we want to go. This is why God hardened Pharoah's heart when he had decided to let God's people go. God used Pharoah to show the children of Israel that He would take care of them. Pharoah served false gods, so his fate had already been sealed. hope this helps.mdchapel9

Why does God need these other beings? If he thinks to have other beings, he must torture some of them, then why make them? Why can't he be satisfied with himself and torutring no one?

[QUOTE="Fundai"][QUOTE="pdevil21"]

Why does God need these other beings? If he thinks to have other beings, he must torture some of them, then why make them? Why can't he be satisfied with himself and torutring no one?

pdevil21

Are people tortured in Hell?

[QUOTE="Fundai"][QUOTE="pdevil21"]

Why does God need these other beings? If he thinks to have other beings, he must torture some of them, then why make them? Why can't he be satisfied with himself and torutring no one?

pdevil21

Are people tortured in Hell?

[QUOTE="pdevil21"]

[QUOTE="NiKva"] book and verse #, kthnx.NiKva

Luke 4

[QUOTE="pdevil21"]

[QUOTE="Fundai"] God created us because he loved us. And believe it or not, he doesn't torture us.mdchapel9

Are people tortured in Hell?

[QUOTE="NiKva"][QUOTE="pdevil21"]

Luke 4

fend_oblivion

Again. Book and # for where Lucifer has a sudden transformation from Lucifer, angel of light to Satan?

[QUOTE="pdevil21"]

[QUOTE="Fundai"] God created us because he loved us. And believe it or not, he doesn't torture us.Fundai

Are people tortured in Hell?

"He answered,"The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one,and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels."As theweeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.42They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear."

- Matthew 13:37-43 NIV

[QUOTE="mdchapel9"][QUOTE="pdevil21"]Are people tortured in Hell?fend_oblivion

[QUOTE="Fundai"][QUOTE="pdevil21"]

Are people tortured in Hell?

pdevil21

"He answered,"The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one,and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels."As theweeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.42They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear."

- Matthew 13:37-43 NIV

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"][QUOTE="mdchapel9"] From what I heard hell is a place where god's love is not present. I could be wrong.Fundai

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"][QUOTE="mdchapel9"] From what I heard hell is a place where god's love is not present. I could be wrong.Fundai

YEY for happy metaphors! =DDD

Why would God fill the most important instruction manual for life with metaphors? Most people have trouble understanding metaphors and the Bible doesn't even take the consideration to tell you what is a metaphor and what isn't.

[QUOTE="Fundai"][QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]It lacks the presence of God. That means you can yell and yell and no one will be there to answer you. Hell is actually a place where you are constantly burned in fire and brimstone. Hell is a place without any hope.pdevil21

YEY for happy metaphors! =DDD

Why would God fill the most important instruction manual for life with metaphors? Most people have trouble understanding metaphors and the Bible doesn't even take the consideration to tell you what is a metaphor and what isn't.

[QUOTE="pdevil21"]

[QUOTE="psx_warrior"]First, hell is not satan's domain. It was created for him and the angels that followed him against God and His angels. Second, God doesn't send anybody to hell. People go of their own free will. God gives them a choice. Give your heart to Jesus Christ, and Heaven is your eternal home. Reject Him, and you make hell your eternal home. You gotta understand that satan is already doomed to hell. Also, God has forseen that a lot of people have chosen hell as their home. This is why people have a hard time perceiving that predestination and personal choice aren't mutually exclusive. God knew us before we were born, and he knew what we would choose, but we have to be free to make the choices of where we want to go. This is why God hardened Pharoah's heart when he had decided to let God's people go. God used Pharoah to show the children of Israel that He would take care of them. Pharoah served false gods, so his fate had already been sealed. hope this helps.psx_warrior

Why does God need these other beings? If he thinks to have other beings, he must torture some of them, then why make them? Why can't he be satisfied with himself and torutring no one?

Does he need them?

[QUOTE="Fundai"][QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]It lacks the presence of God. That means you can yell and yell and no one will be there to answer you. Hell is actually a place where you are constantly burned in fire and brimstone. Hell is a place without any hope.pdevil21

YEY for happy metaphors! =DDD

Why would God fill the most important instruction manual for life with metaphors? Most people have trouble understanding metaphors and the Bible doesn't even take the consideration to tell you what is a metaphor and what isn't.

[QUOTE="pdevil21"]

[QUOTE="Fundai"] I'm pretty sure the fire and brimstone is a metaphor. :P and it's not that your yelling for god, it's just that in hell you have no grace, and thus are past the point of even asking for god.Fundai

YEY for happy metaphors! =DDD

Why would God fill the most important instruction manual for life with metaphors? Most people have trouble understanding metaphors and the Bible doesn't even take the consideration to tell you what is a metaphor and what isn't.

So what? God is eternal, why should he be bound by a time period on Earth?

Again. Book and # for where Lucifer has a sudden transformation from Lucifer, angel of light to Satan?

NiKva

[QUOTE="Fundai"][QUOTE="pdevil21"]

YEY for happy metaphors! =DDD

Why would God fill the most important instruction manual for life with metaphors? Most people have trouble understanding metaphors and the Bible doesn't even take the consideration to tell you what is a metaphor and what isn't.

pdevil21

So what? God is eternal, why should he be bound by a time period on Earth?

[QUOTE="mdchapel9"][QUOTE="pdevil21"]

Why does God need these other beings? If he thinks to have other beings, he must torture some of them, then why make them? Why can't he be satisfied with himself and torutring no one?

fend_oblivion

Why would a "perfect" God have this need?

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"] [QUOTE="mdchapel9"] I dont think I ever heard anyone answer that kind of question.pdevil21

[QUOTE="pdevil21"]

[QUOTE="Fundai"] the bible was written at a time when metaphors and parables were the common form of teachings. Prophets always spoke in such.Fundai

So what? God is eternal, why should he be bound by a time period on Earth?

Try thousands of Churches that interpret metaphors as they see fit.

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"][QUOTE="mdchapel9"] From what I heard hell is a place where god's love is not present. I could be wrong.Fundai

The first talks about a King, not Satan nor Lucifer (both being unhuman, whereas this king is). The second is more of a poem/song. Lucifer in this sense means "morning star". The heaven that he speaks about is the sky. In modern English, it would be something like "How that has fallen from above, O Morning Star, son of the sun." The rest of the lyric has nothing to do with any person.NiKva

[QUOTE="Fundai"][QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]It lacks the presence of God. That means you can yell and yell and no one will be there to answer you. Hell is actually a place where you are constantly burned in fire and brimstone. Hell is a place without any hope.fend_oblivion

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

[QUOTE="mdchapel9"] I dont think I ever heard anyone answer that kind of question.pdevil21

Why would a "perfect" God have this need?

[QUOTE="NiKva"]The first talks about a King, not Satan nor Lucifer (both being unhuman, whereas this king is). The second is more of a poem/song. Lucifer in this sense means "morning star". The heaven that he speaks about is the sky. In modern English, it would be something like "How that has fallen from above, O Morning Star, son of the sun." The rest of the lyric has nothing to do with any person.fend_oblivion

I was talking about Isaiah 12. It's lyrical, at least to me it is.

I always thought that people said Satan was a metaphor. Does that mean that Ezekiel 28 is a metaphor for a metaphor?

I'm sires he's being tourched, the ultimate agony is seperation from god right. :P but note he doesn't ask for forgiveness, merely relief, and as you said, not of god but from Abraham. He doesnt have the grace to actually ask god for forgiveness. :P (we're kinda not helping prove to tc that metaphors don't confuse though >_>)Fundai

off to play Kingdoms of amalur b4 going to bed, cya. oh and good topic.

I was talking about Isaiah 12. It's lyrical, at least to me it is.

I always thought that people said Satan was a metaphor. Does that mean that Ezekiel 28 is a metaphor for a metaphor?

NiKva

[QUOTE="Fundai"] I'm sires he's being tourched, the ultimate agony is seperation from god right. :P but note he doesn't ask for forgiveness, merely relief, and as you said, not of god but from Abraham. He doesnt have the grace to actually ask god for forgiveness. :P (we're kinda not helping prove to tc that metaphors don't confuse though >_>)fend_oblivion

Seperation from god IS ultimate pain. :P And grace is a gift. One has a choice wether or not to accept. I really am not all to sure at what your trying to say here though. :) care to clarify?Fundai

So what? God is eternal, why should he be bound by a time period on Earth?

pdevil21

[QUOTE="Fundai"] Seperation from god IS ultimate pain. :P And grace is a gift. One has a choice wether or not to accept. I really am not all to sure at what your trying to say here though. :) care to clarify?fend_oblivion

Oh, I see. Well firstly in hell we'll have no bodies. Physical pain will be Impossible. And spiritual agony is far worse anyhow. And on earth you will never be completely removed from god. You may not be in a state of sanctifying grace on earth at all times, but still have grace at the basic level and still have the ability to ask for forgiveness. And I believe your statement of "god will not answer" is false, sorry. God will always answer. ("seek and you shall find")Fundai

And this is why cartoons are not to be trusted with theology children.

what i always wonder as soon as satan enters your metaphysical argument is why the hell is the guy that never hardly killed anyone except for jobs family is the one everyone is so scared of?

and on top of that jobs house fell in and knowing satan i would not suprised one bit if it was shoddy construction and he just lied about it being him in order to win that bet.

[QUOTE="Fundai"] Oh, I see. Well firstly in hell we'll have no bodies. Physical pain will be Impossible. And spiritual agony is far worse anyhow. And on earth you will never be completely removed from god. You may not be in a state of sanctifying grace on earth at all times, but still have grace at the basic level and still have the ability to ask for forgiveness. And I believe your statement of "god will not answer" is false, sorry. God will always answer. ("seek and you shall find")fend_oblivion

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

[QUOTE="Fundai"] Oh, I see. Well firstly in hell we'll have no bodies. Physical pain will be Impossible. And spiritual agony is far worse anyhow. And on earth you will never be completely removed from god. You may not be in a state of sanctifying grace on earth at all times, but still have grace at the basic level and still have the ability to ask for forgiveness. And I believe your statement of "god will not answer" is false, sorry. God will always answer. ("seek and you shall find")Fundai

Wait, Hell will be destroyed? So some have to spend a thousand years in Hell while others who did worse will only have to spend a month? How is that fair? Why not just not have Hell in the first place?

It's not that God "sends souls under his control into Satan's possession" but all are because of our sin nature Satan's possession from the beginning. However, it is by God's grace that we can break free from this slavery to sin and can instead become sons of God.mindstorm

so god creates us with satans help? or does he just immediately hand us off to stan before we even get here?