Christianity: Satan does what God wants

Of course Satan does what God wants, after all God created Satan.

The all powerful nature of god has always been a contradiction.. God is outside of time and can forsee all due to their all powerfulness.. Yet he/she/it created Satan full well knowing that one day he would be casted down into hell.. sSubZerOo

Well duh, God likes to watch his/her/it's creations suffer.

[QUOTE="mdchapel9"]

The sad thing, this post is going to get locked real soon.

muller39

Hey hey Mirko, I would like to try a crack at it if you would bear with me. To me it seems the source of this misunderstanding is that so many people have different views of how this world started and what our purpose is on this earth. I can't really provide an explanation for God when so many people have so many different views of God and how He acts. So the best I can do is try to paint a picture of the God of the Holy Bible becuase this is what I believe to be absolute truth. Let me quote a paragraph from the Book "Doctrine: What Christians should believe" By Mark Driscoll and Gerry Breshears.

"Something has gone terribly wrong. And everyone knows it. The Bible reveals that God created this world in a perfect state and upon the creation of the man and woman, God declared his entire creation "very good"(Gen 1:31). This intended state of perfect beauty in all things is described in the Old Testament as "shalom" (Isaiah 2:2-4, 11:1-9, 32:14-20 .. more verses). Even those who do not believe in the Bible persist in longing for a shalom on the earth, because deep down in God's image bearers there is a faint echo of Eden and how things are supposed to be. Yet, no matter how much money we spend, how many elections we hold, how many organizations we start, how many blogs we write, how many complaints we air, how many tears we cry, or how many wars we wage, boredom, annoyances, miseries, fears, tragedies, suffering, injustice, evil, sickness, pain, and death continue unabated. Why? The fall."

So this fall caused sin to enter the world because we chose to believe Satan's lies instead of God's truth and chose dependance on ourselves instead of dependance on God. So what is sin, God says that whoever lives a sins he will JUDGE us and send us to Hell, so in fact God is perfectly justified in sending us to Hell for we have all sinned. D.A. Carson explains it like this:

"The heart of all this evil is idolatry itself. It is the de-godding of God. It is the creature swinging his puny fist in the face of his Maker and saying, in effect, "If you do not see things my way, I'll make my own gods! I'll be my own god!" Small wonder that the sin most frequently said to arouse God's wrath is not murder, say, or pillage, or any other "horizontal" barbarism, but idolatry - that which dethrones God. That is also why, in every sin, it is God who is the most offended party, as David himself well understood: "Against you, only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight; so you are right in your verdict and justified when you JUDGE" (Psalm 51:4)."

I will end with another passage from "Doctrine":

"When we understand our sin biblically, we understand why we are prone to great evil and know why the world is not the way it should be. But by knowing that God made us in his image and likeness, we find the source of our dignitiy, value, and identity. By knowing of the fall and our state as sinners, we understand depravity as the root problem with our life and world. And by understanding the work of Jesus in our place for our sins, we enjoy the depth of God's love for us, work in us, and eternal future with us as he restores us to the holy state from which we have fallen."

GameGuy642003

That God has justification to send someone to Hell does not absolve Him from the responsibility of doing so. When I hear people assert that God does not send anybody, that they instead do it themselves while at the same time maintaining He is perfectly just, I can't see the logic behind this. When somebody judges, the consequences of that judgement are enforced by that who judges and is an authority. And as I said, He is capable for forgiveness (though I don't agree with the definition Christians give it, for forgiveness is not conditional), therefor He also must punish. You can't have it just one way, if one is a judge they both must hand out mercy as well as punishment. That's what judges do.

As pertaining to the bold, I can't help but laugh reading such a thing. This God does not strike me as holding any characteristics that one would expect to find in a divine being. Jealously? Being offended? Idolotry being a greater sin than murder?? This "almighty creator" comes off to me as more as an insecure, selfish, self-absorbed child more than anything else. Does an adult get offended by a five year old flipping him off? If so, I wouldn't view that person as especially mature, much less suitable to be in a position of such power. I would like to think He is above such vanity and pathetic considerations.

Just the way I see it...

Hey,

That God has justification to send someone to Hell does not absolve Him from the responsibility of doing so. When I hear people assert that God does not send anybody, that they instead do it themselves while at the same time maintaining He is perfectly just, I can't see the logic behind this. When somebody judges, the consequences of that judgement are enforced by that who judges and is an authority. And as I said, He is capable for forgiveness (though I don't agree with the definition Christians give it, for forgiveness is not conditional), therefor He also must punish. You can't have it just one way, if one is a judge they both must hand out mercy as well as punishment. That's what judges do.

As pertaining to the bold, I can't help but laugh reading such a thing. This God does not strike me as holding any characteristics that one would expect to find in a divine being. Jealously? Being offended? Idolotry being a greater sin than murder?? This "almighty creator" comes off to me as more as an insecure, selfish, self-absorbed child more than anything else. Does an adult get offended by a five year old flipping him off? If so, I wouldn't view that person as especially mature, much less suitable to be in a position of such power. I would like to think He is above such vanity and pathetic considerations.

Just the way I see it...

MirkoS77

Your right that in a sense people dont send themselves to Hell but are judged and sent by God, but in another sense these people do send themselves. I look at it like any court case, a convicted lawbreaker doesn't just throw himself into prison (as you sated) but is sentenced by a judge according to his crimes. It was the judge who was the final deciding factor in sending this person but that person chose to live a way of life that led Him to be sentenced to jail. So that's kind of how I see it with us at the final day when all must be judged by God. Except that by God's wonderous grace He has allowed that anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God by FAITH will not perish but have eternal life, we who believe this will be judged, dont get me wrong, but will be judged differently than people who do not except and come to Jesus. I do not know the differences in this judging nor the degrees of punishments and rewards people will receive as stated in the Bible, that is beyond me. You also say that this forgiveness is not conditional, you are correct, this forgiveness and grace that God gives is for people who believe only in Jesus as Savior, and many people don't like that idea and I can understand why.

Now I see your point pertaining to how you cant possibly see God as having jealous attributes. Well in the Bible it does state that he is a jealous God, He is jealous against other Gods taking His glory and taking His people away from Him, He wants us all to Himself and for us to worship and glorify Him. I see how you might still think that this God is then still a selfish, needy God always needing our worship. But this is not so, remember my first paragraph, God does not need anything, for He is God. So why does he want worship and glory from all peoples? He created us not becuase he needed us but because he wanted for us to experience his over-flowing joy and love that is in the trinity. So when we then deify anything other than the creator this would bring out the jealousy in God and for Him to want to keep people from hurting themselves by worshipping anything other than Him, for God Himself can bring perfect eternal joy and love and he doesn't want us turning to anything or anyone else because these created things can never satisfy like the creator Himself can. This might be confusing but I'm doing the best I can to paint the picture of the God of the Bible as much as God The Holy Spirit has allowed me to understand.

I would also like to end by saying that idolatry as explained in The Bible is the sin that covers every single other sin one can commit. To commit any sin would to be breaking the first commandment of Thou Shalt have no other Gods before me. So with your example of murder, if one commits this sin then one would also be committing the sin of idolatry. To explain why this is so one would have to figure out the reason for the murder and there could be thousands of reasons why someone would want to murder someone. It is also interesting to note that the ten commandments also end with the last commandment being Thou shalt not Covet. For to covet anything on this earth would mean you are wanting that thing more than you are wanting God, and this of course will not bring everlasting joy and peace and love since only God Himself can supply these things.This would also be idolatry.

I'm doing the best I can but I love these discussion man, you are pretty insightful about this stuff.

Well yes obviously.

If God is omniscient and all that carry on, that should be the case.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

Are you saying he intentionally puts some evil in us?

fend_oblivion

Satan probably doesn't exist.

Satan is a socially created concept to represent the forces of conflict and contradiction that exist in the world. When there is resistance to our goals, we call this Satan. Satan is anything that stands in our way from achieving our goals.The word "Satan"goes back to the days when scholars were trying to scare the peasants into believing so controlling them is abit easier.

Satan probably doesn't exist.

Satan is a socially created concept to represent the forces of conflict and contradiction that exist in the world. When there is resistance to our goals, we call this Satan. Satan is anything that stands in our way from achieving our goals.The word "Satan"goes back to the days when scholars were trying to scare the peasants into believing so controlling them is abit easier.

pariah3

And this makes him not completely good. Who would worship someone that did this?

wis3boi

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

And this makes him not completely good. Who would worship someone that did this?

fend_oblivion

Your right that in a sense people dont send themselves to Hell but are judged and sent by God, but in another sense these people do send themselves. I look at it like any court case, a convicted lawbreaker doesn't just throw himself into prison (as you sated) but is sentenced by a judge according to his crimes. It was the judge who was the final deciding factor in sending this person but that person chose to live a way of life that led Him to be sentenced to jail. So that's kind of how I see it with us at the final day when all must be judged by God. Except that by God's wonderous grace He has allowed that anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God by FAITH will not perish but have eternal life, we who believe this will be judged, dont get me wrong, but will be judged differently than people who do not except and come to Jesus. I do not know the differences in this judging nor the degrees of punishments and rewards people will receive as stated in the Bible, that is beyond me. You also say that this forgiveness is not conditional, you are correct, this forgiveness and grace that God gives is for people who believe only in Jesus as Savior, and many people don't like that idea and I can understand why.

Now I see your point pertaining to how you cant possibly see God as having jealous attributes. Well in the Bible it does state that he is a jealous God, He is jealous against other Gods taking His glory and taking His people away from Him, He wants us all to Himself and for us to worship and glorify Him. I see how you might still think that this God is then still a selfish, needy God always needing our worship. But this is not so, remember my first paragraph, God does not need anything, for He is God. So why does he want worship and glory from all peoples? He created us not becuase he needed us but because he wanted for us to experience his over-flowing joy and love that is in the trinity. So when we then deify anything other than the creator this would bring out the jealousy in God and for Him to want to keep people from hurting themselves by worshipping anything other than Him, for God Himself can bring perfect eternal joy and love and he doesn't want us turning to anything or anyone else because these created things can never satisfy like the creator Himself can. This might be confusing but I'm doing the best I can to paint the picture of the God of the Bible as much as God The Holy Spirit has allowed me to understand.

I would also like to end by saying that idolatry as explained in The Bible is the sin that covers every single other sin one can commit. To commit any sin would to be breaking the first commandment of Thou Shalt have no other Gods before me. So with your example of murder, if one commits this sin then one would also be committing the sin of idolatry. To explain why this is so one would have to figure out the reason for the murder and there could be thousands of reasons why someone would want to murder someone. It is also interesting to note that the ten commandments also end with the last commandment being Thou shalt not Covet. For to covet anything on this earth would mean you are wanting that thing more than you are wanting God, and this of course will not bring everlasting joy and peace and love since only God Himself can supply these things.This would also be idolatry.

I'm doing the best I can but I love these discussion man, you are pretty insightful about this stuff.

GameGuy642003

As for what you've said, I'm pondering it over.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

And this makes him not completely good. Who would worship someone that did this?

fend_oblivion

If Satan doesn't do what God wants, why does God send souls to Hell? God could make a place for the souls he doesn't want in Heaven that is outside of Satan's jurisdiction, yet sends them to Satan. If Satan is doing things God doesn't approve of, why does he send souls under his control into Satan's possesion?

pdevil21

Its all about the lunch buffet. if everyone got into heaven the queues would be massive.

Jesus is Lord of hell as well as heaven. Satan was sent to hell just as souls who reject God's grace and mercy are sent. Satan simply desires more souls to be in hell. If he must suffer then so must everyone else in his mind. Heaven is our ultimate goal but those who cannot accept Christ and come to know him, in some for or another, participate in the same punishment that Satan must endure. ferrari2001

Satan doesn't do what God wants, he can only do what God allows. Souls are sent to hell for not abiding by God's rules, but we can't go an hour without failing Him, so God came down as Christ to die for our sins and rise again. If you've accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and attempt to follow God's word then you will see Heaven.

Just to repeat, the satan can only do what God allows him to. We have the choice to follow God or not.

Hell has better swag

wis3boi

Satan probably doesn't exist.

Satan is a socially created concept to represent the forces of conflict and contradiction that exist in the world. When there is resistance to our goals, we call this Satan. Satan is anything that stands in our way from achieving our goals.The word "Satan"goes back to the days when scholars were trying to scare the peasants into believing so controlling them is abit easier.

pariah3

What definition of the Satan are you using? I don't remember any religion that says that.

but we can't go an hour without failing Him, so God came down as Christ to die for our sins and rise again.

lowkey254

so much fail here, God had to submit to us? he didnt know we would sin when he created us? so he came and killed himself? what the F? its like you guys dissobey the teachings of all the prophets on purpose this "God came down asa man" is luaghable and a complete joke, completly forgetting the first commandment given to Moses.

the interpretations of the bible is sometimes funny, God KNEW we would sin, thats why he wants us to always repent and pray, go read the Quran, it corrects MANYmistakestodaysbible made.