College Sophomore writes column about Rape and gets lambasted, now defending it

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/31/american-rape-column_n_520630.html

http://www.theeagleonline.com/opinion/story/dealing-with-aus-anti-sex-brigade/

What do you think about the column this kid wrote?

He said he doesn't mind being hated for his views. At least he accepts this

Humans have the ability to communicate. If a woman chooses not to communicate with someone she's about to have intercourse with, then she clearly needs to exercise more responsibility before she starts suing people. That being said, men can just as easily be almost malicious about their sexual behavior.

Wow, he sounds like a complete dick. "Let's get this straight: any woman who heads to an EI party as an anonymous onlooker, drinks five cups of the jungle juice, and walks back to a boy's room with him is indicating that she wants sex, OK?" Or that she's drunk and doesn't understand entirely what she's doing. :| Theokhoth

Ah but what a fine line to use at a stand up comedy. I'll keep it in the back of my mind.

While I somewhat agree with the implicit advice that women who don't want to have sex that they then later regret should not get drunk at a party surrounded by men they don't know...

"Like the other great religions of the world, though, the goal of contemporary feminism and Gay Party activism is not to explain sex, but to abolish its passion. The yin and yang of masculinity and femininity is what makes sexual exploration exciting. Sex isn't about contract-signing. It's about spontaneity, raw energy and control (or its counterpart, surrender). Feminism envisions a bedroom scene in which two amorphous, gender-neutral blobs ask each other 'Is this OK with you?' before daring to move their lips any lower on the other's body. Worse yet: a gender-neutral sexuality can have no conception of the inherently gendered thrills of fetishism, sadomasochism, kink or cross-dressing. How blasé!"

...wtf is this guy talking about!?

Wow, he sounds like a complete dick. "Let's get this straight: any woman who heads to an EI party as an anonymous onlooker, drinks five cups of the jungle juice, and walks back to a boy's room with him is indicating that she wants sex, OK?" Or that she's drunk and doesn't understand entirely what she's doing. :| He really sounds like one of those "Women who dress xyz way really want it" people. In short, a rape apologist.Theokhoth

To be fair, I do have a problem with alcohol "date rapes". It's one thing when a guy drugs a woman and has sex with her while she's too weak to resist or unconscious. It's a whole 'nother thing when a girl has a lot to drink, agrees to have sex with a guy, and then wakes up the morning after thinking "OMG what have I done?" and cries rape. Furthermore, in the scenario of a frat party it's very likely that the guy is also drunk yet I doubt anyone is going to claim that he was raped. In fact, I've yet to hear of a case where a man got drunk, had sex with a woman, and successfully declared that she raped him.

The keyword there is "agrees to have sex". I don't agree with the kid that there's a such thing as "implied consent". Just because a girl goes to your room with you doesn't mean she wants to have sex. It is my opinion though that if she says "let's have sex" or something along those lines then she's still cognizant enough to know what she means. I've been completely ****-faced drunk on several occasions (to the point of winding up over a toilet puking my guts out) and yet I've always managed to keep myself from doing anything I might regret. I would assume that most other people are the same way.

That man is 100% correct, though his intitial example was phrased poorly.

Think of it this way: if a person gets drunk, gets in a car, and his or her friend gets in the passenger seat, and they get into an accident...do you blame the passenger?

Of course not.

In situations such as the author presented, you do not blame a drunk guy for hooking up with a drunk girl. You blame the girl for not having enough self-control, discipline, etc to know when she has had enough or too much. Some blame can also be put on the guy...but rape? No.

In addition, some people can be drunk and hold their composure. I know some women that are borderline alcoholics and are pretty much drunk by 2PM Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. They function 90% normal; you'd think theyre just tired. But their self-control is completely gone. if a guy started talking to them, he would just assume theyre tipsy, but in control.

Its a crappy situation, granted, but it is far, far, FAR from rape.

Also, I dont care how drunk or sober you are, but it is not rape unless the woman says "no".

Unless she is drugged and/or unconscious.

I agree that if you get drunk, you still have responsibility for everything you do. You chose to drink. Drugging someone with something to make them weak is completely different. This poll needs a middle option.

The argument that if a woman is wearing little to no clothes and is drunk, stumbling out of a club on her own at 4am is valid in some sense... You are making yourself an easier target.. Its like a rich guy leaving his Bentley in a crime neighborhood... should his car get stolen? no... will it? most likely.

so no means yes if the girl is drunk.



other wise....

I understand his point, but not all drunk girls will willingly walk back to a guy's room. But their so drunk they don't completely know whats going on.

I don't exactly think it carries the same consequence as other situations of rape, but that shouldn't make it excusable.

Drunk people aren't in a totally conscious state of mind. What a douche.ghoklebutter

yes, so while we are at it, lets pardon all drunk drivers.

they were obviously drunk, so theyre not responsible for their actions :roll:

dont agree with any justification for rape Id like to see the death penalty for rapists

Based on the the first link, including the video, it seems he got exactly what he wanted out of his column. He was purposely insensitive, offended people, and drummed up enough controversy to get on television and create a dialog. TacticaI

he was not insensitive or insulting.

his goal was to present something people did not want to ever consider. He was playing Devil's Advocate. And yet it needed to be addressed. The people that are protesting this guy are simply unable to consider a seemingly unpleasant point of view (that of the so-call rapist) or willing to think the so-called victim is actually using her gender to influence a legal decision/penalty.

The simple fact is that society hears the word "rape" and automatically runs to the victims defense with little to no consideration for A.) the alleged rapists, and B.) the truth.

I know one too many men that have been falsely accused of rape. Thankfully they were cleared of all charges, but still...it is too easy to accuse a guy of rape when in actually both parties were simply drunk and made a mistake.

He'll have an excellent career in journalism. A journalist's job these days is to generate site traffic/get people to pickup a publication to read their article. He's managed to write an article provocative enough to generate interest on a game forum.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Drunk people aren't in a totally conscious state of mind. What a douche.mrbojangles25

yes, so while we are at it, lets pardon all drunk drivers.

they were obviously drunk, so theyre not responsible for their actions :roll:

dont agree with any justification for rape Id like to see the death penalty for rapists

Snakewiseman

Guy is drinking with his friends.
Guy and friends invite some other friends over, some of which are female
Guy gets drunk
Girl gets drunk
Girland Guy hit off, talk a lot, start to make out
Girl and Guy go back to bedroom
Girl and Guy start to get hot and heavy
Girl seems into it, does not say "no"
Girl and Guy have sex
Girl wakes up, regrets decision
Guy wakes up, says "WTF, who are you?"
Guy gets imprisoned (or, in your case, executed)

Where is the justice in that?

I can see his point, but I think he went too far - or maybe that was the point. He wanted to be on TV.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Drunk people aren't in a totally conscious state of mind. What a douche.ghoklebutter

yes, so while we are at it, lets pardon all drunk drivers.

they were obviously drunk, so theyre not responsible for their actions :roll:

no, they dont want it maybe, but being drunk does not pardon you from your decisions. And, so sorry, but drunk people tend to want sex, if they have a healthy sex life.

if you have sex when youre drunk, you cant take it back. You cant say "Oh, I was drunk, it was out of my control" and accuse a guy of raping you any more than a drunk driver can say "Oh, I was drunk, it was not my fault" and expect to get out of a DUI charge. That was the point to my analogy.

[QUOTE="Snakewiseman"]

dont agree with any justification for rape Id like to see the death penalty for rapists

mrbojangles25

Guy is drinking with his friends.
Guy and friends invite some other friends over, some of which are female
Guy gets drunk
Girl gets drunk
Girland Guy hit off, talk a lot, start to make out
Girl and Guy go back to bedroom
Girl and Guy start to get hot and heavy
Girl seems into it, does not say "no"
Girl and Guy have sex
Girl wakes up, regrets decision
Guy wakes up, says "WTF, who are you?"
Guy gets imprisoned (or, in your case, executed)

Where is the justice in that?

[QUOTE="TacticaI"]Based on the the first link, including the video, it seems he got exactly what he wanted out of his column. He was purposely insensitive, offended people, and drummed up enough controversy to get on television and create a dialog. mrbojangles25

he was not insensitive or insulting.

his goal was to present something people did not want to ever consider. He was playing Devil's Advocate. And yet it needed to be addressed. The people that are protesting this guy are simply unable to consider a seemingly unpleasant point of view (that of the so-call rapist) or willing to think the so-called victim is actually using her gender to influence a legal decision/penalty.

The simple fact is that society hears the word "rape" and automatically runs to the victims defense with little to no consideration for A.) the alleged rapists, and B.) the truth.

I know one too many men that have been falsely accused of rape. Thankfully they were cleared of all charges, but still...it is too easy to accuse a guy of rape when in actually both parties were simply drunk and made a mistake.

1. Guy is drinking with his friends.
2. Guy and friends invite some other friends over, some of which are female
3. Guy gets drunk
4. Girl gets drunk
5. Girl and Guy hit it off, talk a lot, start to make out
5. Girl and Guy go back to bedroom
6. Girl and Guy start to get hot and heavy
7. Girl seems into it, does not say "no"
8. Girl and Guy have sex
9. Girl wakes up, regrets decision
10. Guy wakes up, says "WTF, who are you?"
11. Guy gets imprisoned or executed
12. ???
13. Profit!mrbojangles25

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Drunk people aren't in a totally conscious state of mind. What a douche.mrbojangles25

yes, so while we are at it, lets pardon all drunk drivers.

they were obviously drunk, so theyre not responsible for their actions :roll:

If they're both drunk, it's not like either one is taking advantage of the other... Taking advantage of another in an inebriated state when you yourself are not inebriated, however, is a totally different story.dreDREb13

That's what we all learned by watching Superbad. Words to live by ;)

I have to say he's got a point.

She was consenting, even if the alcohol was influencing her decision she still consented to it. You can't turn around and call that rape after the effects have worn off.

Taking advantage of? Well yeah, but that happens at any party. If you are going and you are drinking be prepared for anything.

While I somewhat agree with the implicit advice that women who don't want to have sex that they then later regret should not get drunk at a party surrounded by men they don't know...

"Like the other great religions of the world, though, the goal of contemporary feminism and Gay Party activism is not to explain sex, but to abolish its passion. The yin and yang of masculinity and femininity is what makes sexual exploration exciting. Sex isn't about contract-signing. It's about spontaneity, raw energy and control (or its counterpart, surrender). Feminism envisions a bedroom scene in which two amorphous, gender-neutral blobs ask each other 'Is this OK with you?' before daring to move their lips any lower on the other's body. Worse yet: a gender-neutral sexuality can have no conception of the inherently gendered thrills of fetishism, sadomasochism, kink or cross-dressing. How blasé!"

...wtf is this guy talking about!?

GabuEx

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

While I somewhat agree with the implicit advice that women who don't want to have sex that they then later regret should not get drunk at a party surrounded by men they don't know...

"Like the other great religions of the world, though, the goal of contemporary feminism and Gay Party activism is not to explain sex, but to abolish its passion. The yin and yang of masculinity and femininity is what makes sexual exploration exciting. Sex isn't about contract-signing. It's about spontaneity, raw energy and control (or its counterpart, surrender). Feminism envisions a bedroom scene in which two amorphous, gender-neutral blobs ask each other 'Is this OK with you?' before daring to move their lips any lower on the other's body. Worse yet: a gender-neutral sexuality can have no conception of the inherently gendered thrills of fetishism, sadomasochism, kink or cross-dressing. How blasé!"

...wtf is this guy talking about!?

Bourbons3

Lol that kid is never gonna get laidrlake

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/31/american-rape-column_n_520630.html

http://www.theeagleonline.com/opinion/story/dealing-with-aus-anti-sex-brigade/

What do you think about the column this kid wrote?

Ultimas_Blade

While I somewhat agree with the implicit advice that women who don't want to have sex that they then later regret should not get drunk at a party surrounded by men they don't know...

GabuEx

Edit: In most (if not all) of these cases the drunk individual has no idea what they are doing which means they cannot contract with anyone.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

While I somewhat agree with the implicit advice that women who don't want to have sex that they then later regret should not get drunk at a party surrounded by men they don't know...

LJS9502_basic

What? Going to a party and drinking does not mean one should be raped. If you got drunk at a party and gave me your car keys....would that mean the car was now mine? Of course not. You weren't in any condition to make proper decisions.

I'm at a rather utter loss to find the link between what I said and the idea that one who drinks at a party should be raped...

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

While I somewhat agree with the implicit advice that women who don't want to have sex that they then later regret should not get drunk at a party surrounded by men they don't know...

GabuEx

What? Going to a party and drinking does not mean one should be raped. If you got drunk at a party and gave me your car keys....would that mean the car was now mine? Of course not. You weren't in any condition to make proper decisions.

I'm at a rather utter loss to find the link between what I said and the idea that one who drinks at a party should be raped...

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

What? Going to a party and drinking does not mean one should be raped. If you got drunk at a party and gave me your car keys....would that mean the car was now mine? Of course not. You weren't in any condition to make proper decisions.

LJS9502_basic

I'm at a rather utter loss to find the link between what I said and the idea that one who drinks at a party should be raped...

OK, suppose I have a friend whom I know is going to a large party.

I give her the advice that she should not get drunk.

Did I just tell her that she should be raped if she does?

Because that's the inference you're making here.

OK, suppose I have a friend whom I know is going to a large party.

I give her the advice that she should not get drunk.

Did I just tell her that she should be raped if she does?

Because that's the inference you're making here.

GabuEx

Edit: It wasn't even an inference since you first said you agreed with the dude that wrote that. I'm not sure what you expect me to infer from that TBH.

You cannot infer consent that vaguely, especially when alcohol is involved. This smells like victim blaming to me.

His argument also ignores that consent can be withdrawn. The girl in question may decide against sexual intercourse when she enters the boy's room for example.