Competitive video gaming as a sport?

I think you have to draw a line at some point and consider it more than just "playing" a game. If me and a mate bounce a ball off a wall inside a building, it can't really be called a sport, but if we were practicing penalty kicks the definition would change. Obviously there are several interpretations to what a sport actually is, if you run a mile because you're late for a train, or if you run a mile at an Olympic event. While the act of running or kicking a ball still applies to the said situations, the context change is what matters the most. I think there has to be a clearly defined set of rules, some form of keeping track of scores/times for comparison and a number of other factors like the possibility of turning professional, exempli gratia, football in comparison to merely kicking a ball against the wall. This should not mean that training is excluded as a sport or players that merely play for fun are not practicing sports, only that in order for a discipline to be correctly labeled as such there has to be a "professional" component in existence , otherwise an activity is just an activity.

Back to the topic of video gaming as a sport. I am a pretty successful CoD2 player, I have appeared in the news, given interviews, been on television. I've played in a few higher profile tournaments, captained the Slovenian national CoD2 team in the 2009 and 2010 European championships, my career team winnings are around 12000 dollars. Having this kind of insight I can say that it has been taxing a lot of the time, travel to other countries can be difficult, reaching a certain level requires a lot of patience and it is certainly very mentally exhausting. I definitely consider my actions over the past few years as a sport, it would be unfair to classify it as anything but. I am open to other people's criticism and differing views, and I'm going to say it right away because it will always lead to this. I am fat. I believe that is irrelevant to the discussion and that sports should not be exclusive to a perfect BMI index. I have realized though that a lot of people associate sports with fit and very healthy people and are unwilling to give up the association and definition. It's a view with deep roots, I can respect that, but it is wrong and somewhat demeaning.

Is football a sport? Certainly, but it is no longer considered that if you strip it down and remove context. The same applies to video gaming. Spending time playing games for no other purpose is a relaxing hobby at best, but if one spends his time bettering himself at it, being paid for it, going to land based tournaments, competing against others et cetera then I have to conclude that yes. Video gaming is a sport.

[QUOTE="mrmusicman247"][QUOTE="Big_Bad_Sad"] What about darts?Pirate700

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Golf is surprisingly physically demanding. Your entire body isn't sore after playing a round of darts. :P

Big_Bad_Sad

Just your liver

Your liver can be sore after golf, depending how you play. :)

I don't consider it a sport any more than chess is a sport.

I say this is a good thing.

Yes! Competitive gaming is a sport! :P

Video games in general will get a better reputation if this gets big.

I like that.

Not unless if you wave around with da Wiimote.

I can't believe this comes up, of course it's not a sport.

who ever doesCompetitive video gaming as a sport just pulled a no lifer

who ever doesCompetitive video gaming as a sport just pulled a no lifer

hiphopballer

List them, please.Palantas

Your word doesn't substantiate anything. Show me something that verifies the examples you've presented. Also, if you're not willing to widen your data beyond these few examples, why shouldn't I assume you're cherry picking your examples?

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]This is probably another reason why professional gamers eat diets extremely, extremely high in anti-oxidants.Palantas

Like what? What does your diet consist of?

I dont think so. Gaming itself does not count for a sport, its a competitive hobbie. first of all you need is skill and good habd-eye coordination depending on the game. I think Competitive gaming needs its own catergory, they are dofferent catergories of games and many games to choose from.

Few problems here. If you assume that I am cherry picking my examples then you are being sophist. You need some kind of evidence to assume such things. You have to take the preponderance of evidence as it is given. If there is no countervailing evidence that something is not the case, then the preponderance of evidence is for the case, making it probably the case that it is so. This thread has a preponderance of evidence that there is a correlation. Therefore, there is probably a correlation, unless you would like to provide countervailing evidence. Also, if you want to combat my authority please try to discredit me. I have no incentive to lie about these things. Given the annecdotes and case studies I have provided, there is a preponderance of evidence for.

Vandalvideo

I don't accept your unverified claims as evidence. Provide something to verify your claims. I don't accept your authority on these matters either. Provide at least a partial list of some of the professional gaming events in which you competed, so that we can determine you were actually there.

I don't accept your unverified claims as evidence. Provide something to verify your claims. I don't accept your authority on these matters either. Provide at least a partial list of some of the professional gaming events in which you competed, so that we can determine you were actually there.Palantas

Why don't you accept my claims? Do you have reason for suspicion of such claims? Without reason for suspicion, the rejection of these claims seems to be sophist. You're rejecting evidence at whim without reason.Vandalvideo

The rejection of claims made by someone on an Internet forum, someone who refuses to verify these claims, seems perfectly reasonable to me. I already said that I don't consider your unverified claims as evidence at all, so I don't consider myself rejecting evidence without reason; I'm not dismissing evidence at all.

Also, I've competed in numerous tournaments with my clan Area 51 before having to hang up my title for law school. The most memorable would probably have to have been CEVO. Vandalvideo

Provide at least a partial list of some of the professional gaming events in which you competed, so that we can determine you were actually there.

The rejection of claims made by someone on an Internet forum, someone who refuses to verify these claims, seems perfectly reasonable to me. I already said that I don't consider your unverified claims as evidence at all, so I don't consider myself rejecting evidence without reason; I'm not dismissing evidence at all.Palantas

Provide at least a partial list of some of the professional gaming events in which you competed, so that we can determine you were actually there.

YES it's a sport if you look at the other activities that are listed as a sport. With stuff like poker and chess you need no physical skill it's all mental and you won't have a edge over your opponent if you could dosome kind of movement faster or betterthen your opponnent. If you look like curling and billiards those are mostly mental but you still need physical skill in some kind of movements. With gaming physical skill is very important. If you can't press certain buttons fast enough or move your poke/mouse accurate you lose advantage.
So based on this alone most videogames could be officially a sport.

I haven't refused to verify these claims at all...

Vandalvideo

Oh? Well, then verify them. Prove your claims. Go on, prove them.

The complete list of all the tournaments my clan ever went to can be found on the clan's website. CEVO was by far and away the most memorable of the tournaments that I've gone to. My second favorite was Survival of the Fittest. Cyberglobe and CPL are two more that I remember going to. There have been numerous ones spread through the United States in Philly, Nashville, Atlanta and other places which were hosted by LAN providers. The names of these providers wouldn't do you any good considering the last time I competitively gamed at a tournament was a few years ago. The vast majority of those players have closed down due to low demand. Heck, even big name tournaments like CEVO are no longer around.

Vandalvideo

What's the clan's website? Do these tournaments have websites? How are you identified in their tournament histories?

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="xWoW_Rougex"]

Playing starcraft in front of a keyboard and mouse doesn't seem very different from driving a car?

bruinfan617

the point is, there are a lot of other so called "sports" that has nothing to do with sports. like car racing, golf.

Oh? Well, then verify them. Prove your claims. Go on, prove them.Palantas

What's the clan's website? Do these tournaments have websites? How are you identified in their tournament histories

Not a traditional sport, obviously, but I do not see anything wrong with it being regarded as a form of sport. I think the term e-sport is fitting.

Again, I have worded all my claims in such a way as that it merely "appears" that something is the case or that it is "probably the case". I have presented evidence in this forum which can be used to further the stances which I have presented. I have accepted on numerous occasions, which you clearly have failed to pay attention to, that absolute proof is not available. Case studies and annecdotes are all that is available. While it isn't absolute proof, it is evidence none-the-less. Evidence which, unless you bring further evidence in to combat, you have no reason to not accept the stances. Preponderance of evidence establishes probability and appearance.Vandalvideo

You have not presented evidence. You've presented a small group of claims about persons, claims you refuse to prove.

...You're more than welcome to scower the web for four year old roster information which in all likelihood is long gone...

Vandalvideo

I won't do your job for you. If you want to make a statement, you have to back it up.

You have not presented evidence. You've presented a small group of claims about persons, claims you refuse to prove.Palantas

I won't do your job for you. If you want to make a statement, you have to back it up.

Claims are evidence. Are they good evidence? Not necessarily, but at they bad evidence? Not necessarily. Also, it isn't mere claims. There have been case studies supplied which show a clear correlation between sports fitness and skill level. It may be a small sample size, but a correlation is a correlation regardless of the sample size itself.Vandalvideo

And there's been a case study supplied which shows a non-correlation between sports and fitness level. However, I'm not prepared to accept that one without further investigation any more than I am your case studies. Prove your statements in your case studies are correct.

You did it again. Please, read my entire post instead of snipping out misleading statements. That was sarcasm. The fact of the matter is that the old roster information is no longer around. That kind of evidnece no longer exists. The last time I was in a major tournament was a few years ago. Most of those major tournaments have since closed down. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say that before you actually take the time to read it. The evidence which is available is simple; my extensive knowledge of tournaments and COD clans, my long; four year history of posting about my membership in the clan on this website, and the posts which I have made on the clan's website since the inception of the new forums they instituted about a year ago. That is the evidence for the statement. Evidence is evidence. Now provide me with contrary evidence or be silent. Vandalvideo

So, to your knowledge, there isn't actually any record that you were ever in any tournaments? As to your futher claims, I haven't read these posts. Provide links to these posts.

I would not considered it a sport. A competition yes, a competitive sport no.

Anything competitive can be a sport.

P.S. Chess is recognized as a sport in the International Olympic Committee, so it is a sport.

And there's been a case study supplied which shows a non-correlation between sports and fitness level. However, I'm not prepared to accept that one without further investigation any more than I am your case studies. Prove your statements in your case studies are correct.

So, to your knowledge, there isn't actually any record that you were ever in any tournaments? As to your futher claims, I haven't read these posts. Provide links to these posts.

Palantas

No...just no. A sport to me is something that takes physical and mental activity. Not sitting on a chair all day inside a house clicking a mouse....MgamerBD

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"]No...just no. A sport to me is something that takes physical and mental activity. Not sitting on a chair all day inside a house clicking a mouse....FrostyPhantasm

[QUOTE="FrostyPhantasm"][QUOTE="MgamerBD"]No...just no. A sport to me is something that takes physical and mental activity. Not sitting on a chair all day inside a house clicking a mouse....MgamerBD

Do videogames require ab, leg, arm, and other muscle strength? No.

I think it should be considered a sport. It's a battle of wits and dexterity in the virtual world.

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"][QUOTE="FrostyPhantasm"] Golfing and darts don't require much physical activity.FrostyPhantasm

Starcraft isn't a sport.

Darts isn't a sport.

Golf is a sport, though not as physically demanding as something like basketball.

Some of those things listed are more competitive activities. Just because you use your muscles to do something doesn't make it a sport, there has to be more to it, and it's hard to quantify what it exactly means. Trying to rationalize things like poker, darts, video games, cooking, etc, as sports just because you use muscles in them is a weak connection, in my opinion. It seems just trying to fit under the definition.

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"][QUOTE="FrostyPhantasm"] Golfing and darts don't require much physical activity.FrostyPhantasm

Here's one I just thought of: Is shooting a sport? Yeah, target shooting. Is that a sport?

It isn't but it should be, i mean golf, darts, bowling and pool can be considered sports. Don't see why games shouldn't be. So what if it doesn't involve physical activity, it's got everything else a sport does, whats the harm.FrostyPhantasm

You don't need any skill to play a videogame.BonsaiMet

Huh? If skill is not required to play videogames, then the only factor that makes one person/team win over another is luck, random chance.

[QUOTE="FrostyPhantasm"]It isn't but it should be, i mean golf, darts, bowling and pool can be considered sports. Don't see why games shouldn't be. So what if it doesn't involve physical activity, it's got everything else a sport does, whats the harm.BonsaiMet

[QUOTE="FrostyPhantasm"][QUOTE="MgamerBD"] Golf does actually. It uses a number of muscles from your chest, to your back, abs. I don't really consider darts a sport either, to me its more of a game you play drunk with friends. But it does take accuracy and precision I guess.MgamerBD

if you read my post properly I said you don't need any skill to play a video game. Which is true. I can take any game and play it. However, it does take skill to get good at it obviously.

I can't just grab a golf club and start playing golf. I need to practice and it requires skill.

Honestly, I think the people who say competitive video gaming is a sport, never been on a real sport's team in the first place. People get work up by this because some people put their blood, sweat, and tears in a sport and then have some kid pushing buttons on his ass saying he's an athlete too.

I can't just grab a golf club and start playing golf. I need to practice and it requires skill.

BonsaiMet

Yeah you can. You'll just suck balls at it. Well, actually you'll lose balls...whatever, you know what I mean.

I see poker on every sports channel i have available. Thats definetly not a sport.

I wouldn't mind seeing video game competitions on TV but i don't think its a sport.

if you read my post properly I said you don't need any skill to play a video game. Which is true. I can take any game and play it. However, it does take skill to get good at it obviously.

I can't just grab a golf club and start playing golf. I need to practice and it requires skill.

BonsaiMet

Honestly, I think the people who say competitive video gaming is a sport, never been on a real sport's team in the first place. People get work up by this because some people put their blood, sweat, and tears in a sport and then have some kid pushing buttons on his ass saying he's an athlete too.

muffincakes87

I agree, any sports player can pick up a video game and a lot of them will be good at it with a few hours of practice. However, how long would it take some of these professional video game players to put on a pair of skates, pick up a bat, or play some golf with any resemblence of skill? My guess it would take months just to get their endurance up enough to where they would be able to learn the sport. There is a giant difference between a pro athlete and a pro gamer. 99% of the time the pro athlete has spent his entire life perfecting his or her ability, where as a gamer may have spent 6 months being as good as he is.