Competitive video gaming as a sport?

it shouldn't be like an olympic sport or something, but yes some games can take incredible skill to be good at and it's nice to see people having tournaments, instead of always spending money to play games you can win it back by playing games!

[QUOTE="BonsaiMet"]

if you read my post properly I said you don't need any skill to play a video game. Which is true. I can take any game and play it. However, it does take skill to get good at it obviously.

I can't just grab a golf club and start playing golf. I need to practice and it requires skill.

FrostyPhantasm

Ok let me use an example of a game I've been playing a lot. Forza Motorsport 3. I could get any non gamer, even my 50 year old mother and they could play the game perfectly fine. But they would need the driving assists on to make it easier. For them to be able to be good at it and drive with the assists off would take a bit of practice. However it would require no physical fitness and the skill required couldn't really be used in any other part of life.

I am not saying that it takes no skill to be good at a game. But it doesn't require any to start playing it and doing ok. To do ok at Golf, Snooker or Darts (all skill based sports that require high concentration) you can't just start playing at an ok level. You need to put loads of practice in.

You don't buy a video game and spend weeks or months preparing yourself and practising before getting into it do you? You just look at the manual. Or have a quick look at the controls.

And there's been a case study supplied which shows a non-correlation between sports and fitness level. However, I'm not prepared to accept that one without further investigation any more than I am your case studies. Prove your statements in your case studies are correct.Palantas

So, to your knowledge, there isn't actually any record that you were ever in any tournaments? As to your futher claims, I haven't read these posts. Provide links to these posts.

[QUOTE="FrostyPhantasm"][QUOTE="BonsaiMet"]

if you read my post properly I said you don't need any skill to play a video game. Which is true. I can take any game and play it. However, it does take skill to get good at it obviously.

I can't just grab a golf club and start playing golf. I need to practice and it requires skill.

BonsaiMet

Ok let me use an example of a game I've been playing a lot. Forza Motorsport 3. I could get any non gamer, even my 50 year old mother and they could play the game perfectly fine. But they would need the driving assists on to make it easier. For them to be able to be good at it and drive with the assists off would take a bit of practice. However it would require no physical fitness and the skill required couldn't really be used in any other part of life.

I am not saying that it takes no skill to be good at a game. But it doesn't require any to start playing it and doing ok. To do ok at Golf, Snooker or Darts (all skill based sports that require high concentration) you can't just start playing at an ok level. You need to put loads of practice in.

You don't buy a video game and spend weeks or months preparing yourself and practising before getting into it do you? You just look at the manual. Or have a quick look at the controls.

Actually, the case study provided by you doesn't necessarily mean that the correlation is negative. The fact of the matter is that the person may just have an unnatural amount of natural skill. This, alone, does not negate the case study. Also, ten case studies are more than one. Probability still on the side of those provided. Ten > 1. You need ten if you want to combat with that type of evidence.

Vandalvideo

I don't intend to combat anything until you verify your case studies. Perhaps they will convince me your notion is correct. Prove your statements in your case studies are correct.

My post history is readily available for anyone who wants to take the time to actually look through it. Anyone who has seen me post can tell you that on a consistent basis over the last four years I have been posting as a member of Area 51 gaming. Also; again, the tournaments themselves died out a long time ago. Their roster information is long gone. My knowledge of the workings of the tournament scene and clans are evidence in and of themselves.

Vandalvideo

I don't want to take the time to go through your post history. I'm not going to do your work for you. A sampling of posts illustrating your points here over the last four years will do it.

You don't buy a video game and spend weeks or months preparing yourself and practising before getting into it do you? You just look at the manual. Or have a quick look at the controlsBonsaiMet

I don't intend to combat anything until you verify your case studies. Perhaps they will convince me your notion is correct. Prove your statements in your case studies are correct.Palantas

I don't want to take the time to go through your post history. I'm not going to do your work for you. A sampling of posts illustrating your points here over the last four years will do it.

Ok let me use an example of a game I've been playing a lot. Forza Motorsport 3. I could get any non gamer, even my 50 year old mother and they could play the game perfectly fine. But they would need the driving assists on to make it easier. For them to be able to be good at it and drive with the assists off would take a bit of practice. However it would require no physical fitness and the skill required couldn't really be used in any other part of life.

I am not saying that it takes no skill to be good at a game. But it doesn't require any to start playing it and doing ok. To do ok at Golf, Snooker or Darts (all skill based sports that require high concentration) you can't just start playing at an ok level. You need to put loads of practice in.

You don't buy a video game and spend weeks or months preparing yourself and practising before getting into it do you? You just look at the manual. Or have a quick look at the controls.

BonsaiMet

My dad tried to play Halo 3 one time and could not walk from point A to point B without incredible effort. There is absolutely no way he could have played the game, even on the easiest difficulty (hmm....kinda like my girlfriend a while ago hit stroke limit on every hole). You don't buy a game and spend weeks preparing yourself because you've played games before.

If it's competative activity then is it not technically a sport?Treflis

Again, those case studies are factual histories of the players themselves. A quick look on google would prove the information in those case studies...

Vandalvideo

I'm not going to take a second to look it up. I won't do your work for you. If you want to make a statement, you have to back it up.

I, neither, will take the time to look through my post history. The fact of the matter is that my post history does illustrate over the last few years a history of posting as a member of Area 51 Gaming. That information is readily available. If you want to claim that is false, you will equally have to prove it.

Vandalvideo

I refuse to confirm or deny unverified information. And I'm not going to go digging around trying to prove your case. I won't do your work for you.

FrostyPhantasm

So instead of going outside, breathing some great fresh air and meeting people they spend 5 days of thw week on improving themselves in one game to prove themselves to other nerds ... cool ... :roll:

Where's the fitness? Where's the endurance? the stamina? The high level of concentration? They're just sitting on a chair in front of a computer screen. You're never gonna make friends doing that lol. Your missing out on so much in life. Ok if they enjoy it let them do it. But it's not going to lead to any benefits in the future is it?

I love video games but I don't see the point on spending so much time on one game just to "be the best". I like to get outdoors to and go to work. I like to go for walks and hang out wiith friends. I can't very well do that if I'm staying up until the early morning hamming away on a keyboard to reach the top of a leaderboard.

I'm not going to take a second to look it up. I won't do your work for you. If you want to make a statement, you have to back it up.Palantas

I refuse to confirm or deny unverified information. And I'm not going to go digging around trying to prove your case. I won't do your work for you.

So instead of going outside, breathing some great fresh air and meeting people they spend 5 days of thw week on improving themselves in one game to prove themselves to other nerds ... cool ... :roll:

Where's the fitness? Where's the endurance? the stamina? The high level of concentration? They're just sitting on a chair in front of a computer screen. You're never gonna make friends doing that lol. Your missing out on so much in life. Ok if they enjoy it let them do it. But it's not going to lead to any benefits in the future is it?

I love video games but I don't see the point on spending so much time on one game just to "be the best". I like to get outdoors to and go to work. I like to go for walks and hang out wiith friends. I can't very well do that if I'm staying up until the early morning hamming away on a keyboard to reach the top of a leaderboard.

BonsaiMet

Where's the fitness? Where's the endurance? the stamina? The high level of concentration? They're just sitting on a chair in front of a computer screen. You're never gonna make friends doing that lol. Your missing out on so much in life. Ok if they enjoy it let them do it. But it's not going to lead to any benefits in the future is it?

I love video games but I don't see the point on spending so much time on one game just to "be the best". I like to get outdoors to and go to work. I like to go for walks and hang out wiith friends. I can't very well do that if I'm staying up until the early morning hamming away on a keyboard to reach the top of a leaderboard.

BonsaiMet

According to some people, gamers are athletes first, and gamers second. You can argue that as you please, but you're saying that gaming doesn't take concentration? Of course it does. The rest of your comments could be applied to anyone training hard for any competitive activity.

I just supplied you with direct evidence of at least two of those case studies, and more evidence is readily available for the others. Even without proving the others, those two create a trend which, if you want to claim is false, you need more evidence.

Vandalvideo

I'm not going to confirm or deny/won't do your work for you, etc.

Oh look, I'm in their private vent...

Vandalvideo

I'll accept that as evidence that you are able to access the clan's chatline at this time. Any evidence you were in the tournaments you say you were in? Perhaps you should get someone from the clan to verify this.

I'm not going to confirm or deny/won't do your work for you, etc.Palantas

I'll accept that as evidence that you are able to access the clan's chatline at this time. Any evidence you were in the tournaments you say you were in? Perhaps you should get someone from the clan to verify this.

A sport is a physical activity. Videogames are not. Thus videogames are not sports. I win. /thread

A sport is a physical activity. Videogames are not. Thus videogames are not sports. I win. /thread

SgtKevali

You don't have to, considering I just supplied you with proof of at least two of the case studies; two case studies which alone show a trend.Vandalvideo

If you want to make a statement, you have to back it up. Back up the rest of your case studies.

It is also evidence towards the claim that I am part of the clan. If I have access to a highly restrictive ventrillo server then it supports to some degree the assertion that I am in the clan. Is it absolute proof? No, but it is evidence; evidence which if you want to deny you need countervailing evidence.Vandalvideo

Prove the ventrillo server is highly restrictive. Is there a document on clan procedures I can examine, describing their communications security?

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

A sport is a physical activity. Videogames are not. Thus videogames are not sports. I win. /thread

Vandalvideo

The physical action is not the main part (like in sports), all you do is move a mouse around on a pad. It's almost 99.99% tactics and strategy. That's like calling chess a sport. It's a competitive event, just not defined as a sport.

If you want to make a statement, you have to back it up. Back up the rest of your case studies.Palantas

Prove the ventrillo server is highly restrictive. Is there a document on clan procedures I can examine, describing their communications security?

The physical action is not the main part (like in sports), all you do is move a mouse around on a pad. It's almost 99.99% tactics and strategy. That's like calling chess a sport. It's a competitive event, just not defined as a sport.SgtKevali

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]The physical action is not the main part (like in sports), all you do is move a mouse around on a pad. It's almost 99.99% tactics and strategy. That's like calling chess a sport. It's a competitive event, just not defined as a sport.Vandalvideo

Just wondering, what game did you play for Area51

It isn't necessary that I prove the other case studies, which I could If I wanted to, for the statement to be supported. A correlation or trend only requires at least two samples. The evidence I have provided thus far is sufficient to establish a trend or correlation. I do not need to supply the other case studies. Correlation has been shown probable.Vandalvideo

Prove that you could prove the other case studies, if you wanted to.

The image itself says that the only way that a person can have access to the vent information is if another member of the clan actually gives you the information. Vandalvideo

That doesn't mean anything. What are your clan's policys for password control? Prove the ventrillo server is highly restrictive.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

A sport is a physical activity. Videogames are not. Thus videogames are not sports. I win. /thread

SgtKevali

The physical action is not the main part (like in sports), all you do is move a mouse around on a pad. It's almost 99.99% tactics and strategy. That's like calling chess a sport. It's a competitive event, just not defined as a sport.

Ahaha, competitive gaming IMO is a joke. It's filled with ego and a lot of times sportsmanship is very bad. You see people insulting other players all the time which if it was to be considered a sport, it would need more class. NBA players can't go over to the other team and just start cussing them out.

Now I've been in competitive ladders with people in my clan but I never take it as seriously as others do. Even in games were I'm way above average and can dominate most people I just feel really modest about gaming..

Prove that you could prove the other case studies, if you wanted to.Palantas

That doesn't mean anything. What are your clan's policys for password control? Prove the ventrillo server is highly restrictive.

Just wondering, what game did you play for Area51fooZar777

[QUOTE="fooZar777"]Just wondering, what game did you play for Area51Vandalvideo

Alright :P

That was nothing more than an emptor which has absolutely nothing to do with my main argument. Fact; I have shown that at least two of the case studies are true. Fact; correlation only requires at least two samples. Fact; Correlation probable.Vandalvideo

It doesn't matter if it has nothing to do with your main argument. You made a statement. And as we all know, if you make statements, you have to back them up. Prove it. Go on, prove it.

I would most assuredly state that access being defined by invitation only is restrictive. Now, unless you want to supply a different definition, that is restrictive. Also, I forgot; I'm on the clan's x-fire roster

Vandalvideo

If everyone having the password is allowed to invite anyone they please, then it's not restrictive, which is why I wanted to review a document describing your security procedures.We'll get back to your actually being in the clan in a second. Right now, I want to see you prove that the ventrillo server is restrictive. Do you think you've done that?

"It doesn't matter if it has nothing to do with your main argument. You made a statement. And as we all know, if you make statements, you have to back them up. Prove it. Go on, prove it.Palantas

If everyone having the password is allowed to invite anyone they please, then it's not restrictive, which is why I wanted to review a document describing your security procedures.

We'll get back to your actually being in the clan in a second. Right now, I want to see you prove that the ventrillo server is restrictive. Do you think you've done that

I never had any intention of it being a statement on which I would rest an argument. It was not a premise of any kind. I have no incentives to prove the statement itself. This appears to be a text book red herring. I will not support a red herring. Fact; correlation probable.Vandalvideo

So you don't care to back up the statements you make?

I disagree with your definition of restrictive. I would say that only being allowed in if you're invited is restrictive. Do you have a dictionary definition which coutners this? To my understanding of the word restrictive. Unless you want to provide another definition of restrictive from an accredited dictionary which shows I'm wrong. If you do, I will revise the word usage. Otherwise, yes. Also, I'm on the x-fire roster; fact.

I'm open to the possiblity that it's restrictive. You said it was, so you need to prove it. (Go on, prove it.) Can you provide a definition from an accredited dictionary which displays your definition? If you do, I will revise my word usage.

We'll get to your Xfire roster in a minute.

While i don't think it is a sport it does require skill, so i don't know why people are arguing that... However the fact that it takes less physical activity then darts(and i don't consider this a sport either) is why it is not a sport. Pretty much why it is a game and not a sport actually.

You see people insulting other players all the time which if it was to be considered a sport, it would need more class.0Tyler0

roflmao

that will become a sport when darts becomes more interesting than golf...

It's definately a competitive event, but I'm not sure it has quite the contest of physical prowess to qualify for a true sport.

now, as an e-sport, it works.

now, as an e-sport, it works.

lafigueroa

Are there e-sports that are not videogames?

Isn't a sport by definition, a competitive activity that requires physical exertion?

I love video games, but I wouldn't consider professional playing to be a sport. Though the term e-sport I would assume would mean "electronic sport".. so that seems to fit everything alright doesn't it?

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]The physical action is not the main part (like in sports), all you do is move a mouse around on a pad. It's almost 99.99% tactics and strategy. That's like calling chess a sport. It's a competitive event, just not defined as a sport.Vandalvideo

It's not enough. You're sitting using your thumbs and fingers to make minimal movements. I'm not trying to demean "competitive gaming", I'm just saying it doesn't qualify as a sport, like chess. I'm being clearly logical and reasonable, but I don't expect you to change your mind. People almost never can admit that they're wrong.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]The physical action is not the main part (like in sports), all you do is move a mouse around on a pad. It's almost 99.99% tactics and strategy. That's like calling chess a sport. It's a competitive event, just not defined as a sport.SgtKevali

It's not enough. You're sitting using your thumbs and fingers to make minimal movements. I'm not trying to demean "competitive gaming", I'm just saying it doesn't qualify as a sport, like chess. I'm being clearly logical and reasonable, but I don't expect you to change your mind. People almost never can admit that they're wrong.