Confederate Flag: Your take?

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="Siofen"]

So much worse things happened under the U.S Flag, when you're going to be proud of a certain flag, you have to take the good with the bad, I mean ALOT of evil was commited under the U.S flag, confederate flag, and most other flags in the world.

For this reason I could never bring myself to salute a flag, it just seems so silly. I don't brandish it, or get all worked up over it, it's just so darned silly.

HybridPhoenix

Why should anyone feel pride for a place they were born? I find myself thankful to live in Canada because of the many places I COULD have been born, but not proud...national pride rarely leads to good thingd

I find it offensive that Americans fly the American flag. America is the worlds biggest arms dealer.swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="Siofen"]

So much worse things happened under the U.S Flag, when you're going to be proud of a certain flag, you have to take the good with the bad, I mean ALOT of evil was commited under the U.S flag, confederate flag, and most other flags in the world.

For this reason I could never bring myself to salute a flag, it just seems so silly. I don't brandish it, or get all worked up over it, it's just so darned silly.

HybridPhoenix

Why should anyone feel pride for a place they were born? I find myself thankful to live in Canada because of the many places I COULD have been born, but not proud...national pride rarely leads to good thingd

Agreed.. Nationalism is one of the most useless things.. It creates unfounded Arrogants.. Be proud for your own accomplishments in life, and seek inspiriation from the countries history.

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]I don't mind it. Sure it can stand for some things I'm against, but on that same note as a Canadian, the American flag could also be interpreted as something against my beliefs. Either way I'm not a fan of people flaunting their nationalism like they're somehow better than you. LukeAF24

Your beliefs are against freedom, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]I find it offensive that Americans fly the American flag. America is the worlds biggest arms dealer.blackngold29

[QUOTE="Siofen"]

So much worse things happened under the U.S Flag, when you're going to be proud of a certain flag, you have to take the good with the bad, I mean ALOT of evil was commited under the U.S flag, confederate flag, and most other flags in the world.

For this reason I could never bring myself to salute a flag, it just seems so silly. I don't brandish it, or get all worked up over it, it's just so darned silly.

sSubZerOo

No one is argueing that.. But the Confederacy Flag was created on the sole purpose to uphold the instiution of slavery.. The American flag of today represents liberty, freedoms etc etc..

My point is, all flags has had evil commited under them, for ours to be any different the any other is just naive.

meh... not against it ( from the north ) but to me waving it around makes a person seem like a redneck hick... even if you're not. kinda playing into that stereotype...

I find it offensive that Americans fly the American flag. America is the worlds biggest arms dealer.swizz-the-gamer

On a side note.. Isn't it ironic that the permenant members of the UN security consul (France, Britain, United States, China, and Russia) are the largest arms dealers in the world.

[QUOTE="HybridPhoenix"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="Siofen"]

So much worse things happened under the U.S Flag, when you're going to be proud of a certain flag, you have to take the good with the bad, I mean ALOT of evil was commited under the U.S flag, confederate flag, and most other flags in the world.

For this reason I could never bring myself to salute a flag, it just seems so silly. I don't brandish it, or get all worked up over it, it's just so darned silly.

blackngold29

Why should anyone feel pride for a place they were born? I find myself thankful to live in Canada because of the many places I COULD have been born, but not proud...national pride rarely leads to good thingd

Theres nothing wrong witt it. Most people use it simply as a way to show pride in their souther heritage...

Also, the civil war was about much more than slavery...

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]I don't mind it. Sure it can stand for some things I'm against, but on that same note as a Canadian, the American flag could also be interpreted as something against my beliefs. Either way I'm not a fan of people flaunting their nationalism like they're somehow better than you. LukeAF24

Your beliefs are against freedom, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

meh... not against it ( from the north ) but to me waving it around makes a person seem like a redneck hick... even if you're not. kinda playing into that stereotype...

comp_atkins

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Siofen"]

So much worse things happened under the U.S Flag, when you're going to be proud of a certain flag, you have to take the good with the bad, I mean ALOT of evil was commited under the U.S flag, confederate flag, and most other flags in the world.

For this reason I could never bring myself to salute a flag, it just seems so silly. I don't brandish it, or get all worked up over it, it's just so darned silly.

Siofen

No one is argueing that.. But the Confederacy Flag was created on the sole purpose to uphold the instiution of slavery.. The American flag of today represents liberty, freedoms etc etc..

My point is, all flags has had evil commited under them, for ours to be any different the any other is just naive.

No one is ARGUEING that.. Thats the point, just about every one can agree that was a horrible event.. What I am pointing out the United States flag is not the SYMBOL OF OPPRESSING Native Americans, the Confederacy was directly created for upholding slavery.. That is the point.. This isn't to say that the south was bad and the US is good.. They both have their own vices like every country.. But the point of the matter the confederate flag represent slavery, thats why it was created, to defendt he insitution of slavery.. The United States flag represent democracy/republic against British empire, and that it represents liberty and freedom specially today..

Now if the United States flag was created in response to Native americans, on suppressing them, then I would agree.. But it isn't, and we can further argue that dark part in history does not represent the true meanings of our constitution and flag.

And here i was under the impressions that the flag represented the states of the union and 13 originals.. learn something new every day. So this freedom, Life and Liberty stuff is hidden with invisible ink? or is it an optical illusion.. crazy stuff nonetheless..shivaskunk9mm

And you are nothing more than a fleshy meatbag, put on this earth to reproduce and die. I can get literal too, if you want. But, I'm guessing you are oh so much more then that, right?

[QUOTE="Siofen"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Siofen"]

So much worse things happened under the U.S Flag, when you're going to be proud of a certain flag, you have to take the good with the bad, I mean ALOT of evil was commited under the U.S flag, confederate flag, and most other flags in the world.

For this reason I could never bring myself to salute a flag, it just seems so silly. I don't brandish it, or get all worked up over it, it's just so darned silly.

sSubZerOo

No one is argueing that.. But the Confederacy Flag was created on the sole purpose to uphold the instiution of slavery.. The American flag of today represents liberty, freedoms etc etc..

My point is, all flags has had evil commited under them, for ours to be any different the any other is just naive.

No one is ARGUEING that.. Thats the point, just about every one can agree that was a horrible event.. What I am pointing out the United States flag is not the SYMBOL OF OPPRESSING Native Americans, the Confederacy was directly created for upholding slavery.. That is the point.. This isn't to say that the south was bad and the US is good.. They both have their own vices like every country.. But the point of the matter the confederate flag represent slavery, thats why it was created, to defendt he insitution of slavery.. The United States flag represent democracy/republic against British empire, and that it represents liberty and freedom specially today..

Now if the United States flag was created in response to Native americans, on suppressing them, then I would agree.. But it isn't, and we can further argue that dark part in history does not represent the true meanings of our constitution and flag.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Siofen"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Siofen"]

So much worse things happened under the U.S Flag, when you're going to be proud of a certain flag, you have to take the good with the bad, I mean ALOT of evil was commited under the U.S flag, confederate flag, and most other flags in the world.

For this reason I could never bring myself to salute a flag, it just seems so silly. I don't brandish it, or get all worked up over it, it's just so darned silly.

Siofen

No one is argueing that.. But the Confederacy Flag was created on the sole purpose to uphold the instiution of slavery.. The American flag of today represents liberty, freedoms etc etc..

My point is, all flags has had evil commited under them, for ours to be any different the any other is just naive.

No one is ARGUEING that.. Thats the point, just about every one can agree that was a horrible event.. What I am pointing out the United States flag is not the SYMBOL OF OPPRESSING Native Americans, the Confederacy was directly created for upholding slavery.. That is the point.. This isn't to say that the south was bad and the US is good.. They both have their own vices like every country.. But the point of the matter the confederate flag represent slavery, thats why it was created, to defendt he insitution of slavery.. The United States flag represent democracy/republic against British empire, and that it represents liberty and freedom specially today..

Now if the United States flag was created in response to Native americans, on suppressing them, then I would agree.. But it isn't, and we can further argue that dark part in history does not represent the true meanings of our constitution and flag.

I suppose there is no difference in the German and Nazi flag then? :roll: Your completely missing the point.. A flag is a symbol, it does not have a history.. The Country has a history, the flag is a representation of our ideals.. The confederate flag was made to uphold slavery.. See the difference? I suppose the Nazi and German flag are the same then too>?

[QUOTE="Siofen"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Siofen"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Siofen"]

So much worse things happened under the U.S Flag, when you're going to be proud of a certain flag, you have to take the good with the bad, I mean ALOT of evil was commited under the U.S flag, confederate flag, and most other flags in the world.

For this reason I could never bring myself to salute a flag, it just seems so silly. I don't brandish it, or get all worked up over it, it's just so darned silly.

sSubZerOo

No one is argueing that.. But the Confederacy Flag was created on the sole purpose to uphold the instiution of slavery.. The American flag of today represents liberty, freedoms etc etc..

My point is, all flags has had evil commited under them, for ours to be any different the any other is just naive.

No one is ARGUEING that.. Thats the point, just about every one can agree that was a horrible event.. What I am pointing out the United States flag is not the SYMBOL OF OPPRESSING Native Americans, the Confederacy was directly created for upholding slavery.. That is the point.. This isn't to say that the south was bad and the US is good.. They both have their own vices like every country.. But the point of the matter the confederate flag represent slavery, thats why it was created, to defendt he insitution of slavery.. The United States flag represent democracy/republic against British empire, and that it represents liberty and freedom specially today..

Now if the United States flag was created in response to Native americans, on suppressing them, then I would agree.. But it isn't, and we can further argue that dark part in history does not represent the true meanings of our constitution and flag.

I suppose there is no difference in the German and Nazi flag then? :roll:

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Siofen"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Siofen"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Siofen"]

So much worse things happened under the U.S Flag, when you're going to be proud of a certain flag, you have to take the good with the bad, I mean ALOT of evil was commited under the U.S flag, confederate flag, and most other flags in the world.

For this reason I could never bring myself to salute a flag, it just seems so silly. I don't brandish it, or get all worked up over it, it's just so darned silly.

swizz-the-gamer

No one is argueing that.. But the Confederacy Flag was created on the sole purpose to uphold the instiution of slavery.. The American flag of today represents liberty, freedoms etc etc..

My point is, all flags has had evil commited under them, for ours to be any different the any other is just naive.

No one is ARGUEING that.. Thats the point, just about every one can agree that was a horrible event.. What I am pointing out the United States flag is not the SYMBOL OF OPPRESSING Native Americans, the Confederacy was directly created for upholding slavery.. That is the point.. This isn't to say that the south was bad and the US is good.. They both have their own vices like every country.. But the point of the matter the confederate flag represent slavery, thats why it was created, to defendt he insitution of slavery.. The United States flag represent democracy/republic against British empire, and that it represents liberty and freedom specially today..

Now if the United States flag was created in response to Native americans, on suppressing them, then I would agree.. But it isn't, and we can further argue that dark part in history does not represent the true meanings of our constitution and flag.

I suppose there is no difference in the German and Nazi flag then? :roll:

That doesn't mean thats what the flag stands for.. For the last damn time, the reason why people are against the Confederacy flag is because it REPRESENTS slavery.. Thats why it was created, to UPHOLD slavery.. The reason why the United States flag and many other flags in western nations are honored is because it represents freedoms, and liberty.. Get it? By your reckoning we can't use ANY flag.. And the reason why the Nazi flag is looked down on is because it represented the Facist party which killed millions.. The flag was SPECIFICALLY made for those ideas.

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"]And here i was under the impressions that the flag represented the states of the union and 13 originals.. learn something new every day. So this freedom, Life and Liberty stuff is hidden with invisible ink? or is it an optical illusion.. crazy stuff nonetheless..LukeAF24

And you are nothing more than a fleshy meatbag, put on this earth to reproduce and die. I can get literal too, if you want. But, I'm guessing you are oh so much more then that, right?

ouch, mr. Snippy.. I'm guessing by your internet attire that you take your nationalist BS very seriously, so i'll puts in bold for ya govn'a!

A flag is a god damned flag. It does not represent whatever lofty ideals it's nation can't ever seem to actually uphold. A nations character and the Ideals they hold to should be obvious by the actions of it's Government and citizens, not by pointing at a flag and going "well, we may be kicking the **** out of ya, but that over there's whats we're really all about". SO excuse me if a piece of cloth with stripes on it don't bring a tear to me eye.

I also make damn good cake, so neener neener to you. :P

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"]

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"]And here i was under the impressions that the flag represented the states of the union and 13 originals.. learn something new every day. So this freedom, Life and Liberty stuff is hidden with invisible ink? or is it an optical illusion.. crazy stuff nonetheless..shivaskunk9mm

And you are nothing more than a fleshy meatbag, put on this earth to reproduce and die. I can get literal too, if you want. But, I'm guessing you are oh so much more then that, right?

ouch, mr. Snippy.. I'm guessing by your internet attire that you take your nationalist BS very seriously, so i'll puts in bold for ya govn'a!

A flag is a god damned flag. It does not represent whatever lofty ideals it's nation can't ever seem to actually uphold. A nations character and the Ideals they hold to should be obvious by the actions of it's Government and citizens, not by pointing at a flag and going "well, we may be kicking the **** out of ya, but that over there's whats we're really all about". SO excuse me if a piece of cloth with stripes on it don't bring a tear to me eye.

I also make damn good cake, so neener neener to you. :P

I am not much of a nationalist either, but that still doesn't mean I see the Confederate flag representing slavery and racism..

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"]

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"]

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"]And here i was under the impressions that the flag represented the states of the union and 13 originals.. learn something new every day. So this freedom, Life and Liberty stuff is hidden with invisible ink? or is it an optical illusion.. crazy stuff nonetheless..sSubZerOo

And you are nothing more than a fleshy meatbag, put on this earth to reproduce and die. I can get literal too, if you want. But, I'm guessing you are oh so much more then that, right?

ouch, mr. Snippy.. I'm guessing by your internet attire that you take your nationalist BS very seriously, so i'll puts in bold for ya govn'a!

A flag is a god damned flag. It does not represent whatever lofty ideals it's nation can't ever seem to actually uphold. A nations character and the Ideals they hold to should be obvious by the actions of it's Government and citizens, not by pointing at a flag and going "well, we may be kicking the **** out of ya, but that over there's whats we're really all about". SO excuse me if a piece of cloth with stripes on it don't bring a tear to me eye.

I also make damn good cake, so neener neener to you. :P

I am not much of a nationalist either, but that still doesn't mean I see the Confederate flag representing slavery and racism..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"]

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"]

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"]And here i was under the impressions that the flag represented the states of the union and 13 originals.. learn something new every day. So this freedom, Life and Liberty stuff is hidden with invisible ink? or is it an optical illusion.. crazy stuff nonetheless..swizz-the-gamer

And you are nothing more than a fleshy meatbag, put on this earth to reproduce and die. I can get literal too, if you want. But, I'm guessing you are oh so much more then that, right?

ouch, mr. Snippy.. I'm guessing by your internet attire that you take your nationalist BS very seriously, so i'll puts in bold for ya govn'a!

A flag is a god damned flag. It does not represent whatever lofty ideals it's nation can't ever seem to actually uphold. A nations character and the Ideals they hold to should be obvious by the actions of it's Government and citizens, not by pointing at a flag and going "well, we may be kicking the **** out of ya, but that over there's whats we're really all about". SO excuse me if a piece of cloth with stripes on it don't bring a tear to me eye.

I also make damn good cake, so neener neener to you. :P

I am not much of a nationalist either, but that still doesn't mean I see the Confederate flag representing slavery and racism..

Well of course it is.. I was just stating my views on why the confedracy flag is looked down upon when peopel wear them/have them on display.. I do have a problem though when its raised in government buildings.

[QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. blackngold29

[QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. sSubZerOo

The secession from the union, and the creation of the confederacy (which the Confederate flag represents) directly has to do with the insitution of slavery.. Thats why they seceded and that is it. And I also find this laughable "sourthern heritage and pride" yeah because the support of one the darkest parts in our history, slavery, is somethign to take pride in.

The Confederate flag is all about slavery.. That was the main reason why they seceded and made their own country for a brief time, to defend the injust institution of slavery. There is no ifs ands and buts about it.. Thats why the south seceded, and nothing else.. It embodies slavery becauses thats why they seceded to begin with.sSubZerOo

uninformed decision ftl. they didn't want a big government. they wanted states rights. funny thing is that before the war all of the confederate generals released their slaves and gave them money and provisions...

that's the only thing I didn't like about lincoln. He didn't have the right to attack the south because they were an independent nation... sounds kind of like iraq...

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/12/26/hot-seat-lincoln-wrong-to-fight-civil-war/

I expect it represents for the Southern states , a flag to be proud of , in those days it wasnt all PC as now,

an those who are spouting about it as a racist insignia .....get real wake up the Swastika was !!!

I expect it represents for the Southern states , a flag to be proud of , in those days it wasnt all PC as now,

an those who are spouting about it as a racist insignia .....get real wake up the Swastika was !!!

bill_wall

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] The Confederate flag is all about slavery.. That was the main reason why they seceded and made their own country for a brief time, to defend the injust institution of slavery. There is no ifs ands and buts about it.. Thats why the south seceded, and nothing else.. It embodies slavery becauses thats why they seceded to begin with.jlh47

uninformed decision ftl. they didn't want a big government. they wanted states rights. funny thing is that before the war all of the confederate generals released their slaves and gave them money and provisions...

That has nothing to do with it.. The main draw why they seceded before Lincoln could even make his Inaugral speech, is the majority of the south felt they were going to release slaves.

that's the only thing I didn't like about lincoln. He didn't have the right to attack the south because they were an independent nation... sounds kind of like iraq...

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/12/26/hot-seat-lincoln-wrong-to-fight-civil-war/

Completely disagree, he fought to keep the nation together.. To let go the south from seceded gave instability to the point that any state could break up.. The US wouldn't be what it is today.. Lincoln is also ranked as one of the highest if not the highest most successful president in the United States.

its just a flag heritage and culture and tradition it does not represent anything bad anymore Norg

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. CommanderShiro

[QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. sSubZerOo

The secession from the union, and the creation of the confederacy (which the Confederate flag represents) directly has to do with the insitution of slavery.. Thats why they seceded and that is it. And I also find this laughable "sourthern heritage and pride" yeah because the support of one the darkest parts in our history, slavery, is somethign to take pride in.

The south also pressed forward liberty breaking laws like the Fugitive Slave Act.. Which took away herbus Corpus, it made any free blacks in the north completely at risk from being kid napped.. That happened quite often where slavers went across the Ohio river grabbed a free black person.. Brought them infront of a judge and claimed it was theirs.. For the most part they were given it, inless anotehr white person spoke out agianst them.. Most did not.. Slavery was a huge hot button topic.. That if you even mentioned going against it, you were garenteed to have violence acted upon you.. Perhaps you should do some reading on this.. Because if anything the South in trying to combat anti slavery was far more vicious then the north.

Whether it was better living conditions, taxes, or changes of policies down there. Both sides lived different ways of life and had no idea what was best for each other. The South didn't enjoy Northern States making all their decisions when they had no idea how things were down in the South.

Completely false.. The states were evenly split for that exact reason.. And the majority of the north was for slavery for the longest time possible.. Abolitionist for the longest time were considered extremists.. And slavery became even more popular with the invention of the cotton gin.

If it was about slavery why did 5 slave states fight on the Union side? The war was fought over the constant involvement the Federal Government had in State Government.

Because they did not want to break up with the north.. Because they held alot in common with the north.. And also your point is irrelevent. The north did not originally want to abolitiost slavery.. The south SECEDED because they THOUGHT the north was going to abolitist slavery with Lincoln. Lincoln specificially was worried about doing this and prolonged this during the war by only freeing slaves legally in the confederacy, not the slave states that were in the north..

The reason why the South Seceded was because of slavery.. Plain and simple.. There is no way to get around it.. They feared Linclon would destroy their ways of life by abolitioning slavery.

Heritage, not hate.CptJSparrow

why not just have the american flag, after all its your heritage. I think the confederate flag is obsolete. It stood for racist and separatist beliefs. The confederates didnt even win the civil war so why fly that flag.

[QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. sSubZerOo

The secession from the union, and the creation of the confederacy (which the Confederate flag represents) directly has to do with the insitution of slavery.. Thats why they seceded and that is it. And I also find this laughable "sourthern heritage and pride" yeah because the support of one the darkest parts in our history, slavery, is somethign to take pride in.

The south also pressed forward liberty breaking laws like the Fugitive Slave Act.. Which took away herbus Corpus, it made any free blacks in the north completely at risk from being kid napped.. That happened quite often where slavers went across the Ohio river grabbed a free black person.. Brought them infront of a judge and claimed it was theirs.. For the most part they were given it, inless anotehr white person spoke out agianst them.. Most did not.. Slavery was a huge hot button topic.. That if you even mentioned going against it, you were garenteed to have violence acted upon you.. Perhaps you should do some reading on this.. Because if anything the South in trying to combat anti slavery was far more vicious then the north.

Whether it was better living conditions, taxes, or changes of policies down there. Both sides lived different ways of life and had no idea what was best for each other. The South didn't enjoy Northern States making all their decisions when they had no idea how things were down in the South.

Completely false.. The states were evenly split for that exact reason.. And the majority of the north was for slavery for the longest time possible.. Abolitionist for the longest time were considered extremists.. And slavery became even more popular with the invention of the cotton gin.

If it was about slavery why did 5 slave states fight on the Union side? The war was fought over the constant involvement the Federal Government had in State Government.

Because they did not want to break up with the north.. Because they held alot in common with the north.. And also your point is irrelevent. The north did not originally want to abolitiost slavery.. The south SECEDED because they THOUGHT the north was going to abolitist slavery with Lincoln. Lincoln specificially was worried about doing this and prolonged this during the war by only freeing slaves legally in the confederacy, not the slave states that were in the north..

The reason why the South Seceded was because of slavery.. Plain and simple.. There is no way to get around it.. They feared Linclon would destroy their ways of life by abolitioning slavery.

so every southerner owned slaves?

I liked lincoln, but he didn't have the right to go to war with an independent nation. i'm glad he did though.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. jlh47

[QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. sSubZerOo

The secession from the union, and the creation of the confederacy (which the Confederate flag represents) directly has to do with the insitution of slavery.. Thats why they seceded and that is it. And I also find this laughable "sourthern heritage and pride" yeah because the support of one the darkest parts in our history, slavery, is somethign to take pride in.

The south also pressed forward liberty breaking laws like the Fugitive Slave Act.. Which took away herbus Corpus, it made any free blacks in the north completely at risk from being kid napped.. That happened quite often where slavers went across the Ohio river grabbed a free black person.. Brought them infront of a judge and claimed it was theirs.. For the most part they were given it, inless anotehr white person spoke out agianst them.. Most did not.. Slavery was a huge hot button topic.. That if you even mentioned going against it, you were garenteed to have violence acted upon you.. Perhaps you should do some reading on this.. Because if anything the South in trying to combat anti slavery was far more vicious then the north.

Whether it was better living conditions, taxes, or changes of policies down there. Both sides lived different ways of life and had no idea what was best for each other. The South didn't enjoy Northern States making all their decisions when they had no idea how things were down in the South.

Completely false.. The states were evenly split for that exact reason.. And the majority of the north was for slavery for the longest time possible.. Abolitionist for the longest time were considered extremists.. And slavery became even more popular with the invention of the cotton gin.

If it was about slavery why did 5 slave states fight on the Union side? The war was fought over the constant involvement the Federal Government had in State Government.

Because they did not want to break up with the north.. Because they held alot in common with the north.. And also your point is irrelevent. The north did not originally want to abolitiost slavery.. The south SECEDED because they THOUGHT the north was going to abolitist slavery with Lincoln. Lincoln specificially was worried about doing this and prolonged this during the war by only freeing slaves legally in the confederacy, not the slave states that were in the north..

The reason why the South Seceded was because of slavery.. Plain and simple.. There is no way to get around it.. They feared Linclon would destroy their ways of life by abolitioning slavery.

so every southerner owned slaves?

I liked lincoln, but he didn't have the right to go to war with an independent nation. i'm glad he did though.

Just because the minority owned slaves in the south doesn't mean they were against it.. Most if not every one in southern communities and most in the north found it to be fine.. Not only did alot of proslave countries claim that the bible justified slavery, but they also thought blacks to be inferior, not to mention there was alot of racism during that time.. Read up any abolitionists trying to do a speech in the south.. Some were beaten unconcious, others were even shot dead.. The majority of the south supported slavery even if they themselves did not have slaves.

Not neccesarly for one thats if we even saw the confederacy as a independent state.. Secondly, thats if they even seceded justly which they did not.. Lincoln was not attacking a independent nation as so much trying to bring the coutnry back again.. This has happened through out history, Lincoln was justified in most historians eyes.. Also the confederacy was not for small governments, they infact created a whole confederacy government witha president as well. Top that off sooner or later a fight was goign to break out.. Witht he underground railroad being as it is, southern slave catchers would undoubtly come into union territory to try to pick up slaves.. This would be considered a act of war in most nations eyes..

It was going to happen sooner or later.

[QUOTE="jlh47"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. sSubZerOo

The secession from the union, and the creation of the confederacy (which the Confederate flag represents) directly has to do with the insitution of slavery.. Thats why they seceded and that is it. And I also find this laughable "sourthern heritage and pride" yeah because the support of one the darkest parts in our history, slavery, is somethign to take pride in.

The south also pressed forward liberty breaking laws like the Fugitive Slave Act.. Which took away herbus Corpus, it made any free blacks in the north completely at risk from being kid napped.. That happened quite often where slavers went across the Ohio river grabbed a free black person.. Brought them infront of a judge and claimed it was theirs.. For the most part they were given it, inless anotehr white person spoke out agianst them.. Most did not.. Slavery was a huge hot button topic.. That if you even mentioned going against it, you were garenteed to have violence acted upon you.. Perhaps you should do some reading on this.. Because if anything the South in trying to combat anti slavery was far more vicious then the north.

Whether it was better living conditions, taxes, or changes of policies down there. Both sides lived different ways of life and had no idea what was best for each other. The South didn't enjoy Northern States making all their decisions when they had no idea how things were down in the South.

Completely false.. The states were evenly split for that exact reason.. And the majority of the north was for slavery for the longest time possible.. Abolitionist for the longest time were considered extremists.. And slavery became even more popular with the invention of the cotton gin.

If it was about slavery why did 5 slave states fight on the Union side? The war was fought over the constant involvement the Federal Government had in State Government.

Because they did not want to break up with the north.. Because they held alot in common with the north.. And also your point is irrelevent. The north did not originally want to abolitiost slavery.. The south SECEDED because they THOUGHT the north was going to abolitist slavery with Lincoln. Lincoln specificially was worried about doing this and prolonged this during the war by only freeing slaves legally in the confederacy, not the slave states that were in the north..

The reason why the South Seceded was because of slavery.. Plain and simple.. There is no way to get around it.. They feared Linclon would destroy their ways of life by abolitioning slavery.

so every southerner owned slaves?

I liked lincoln, but he didn't have the right to go to war with an independent nation. i'm glad he did though.

Just because the minority owned slaves in the south doesn't mean they were against it.. Most if not every one in southern communities and most in the north found it to be fine.. Not only did alot of proslave countries claim that the bible justified slavery, but they also thought blacks to be inferior, not to mention there was alot of racism during that time.. Read up any abolitionists trying to do a speech in the south.. Some were beaten unconcious, others were even shot dead.. The majority of the south supported slavery even if they themselves did not have slaves.

Not neccesarly for one thats if we even saw the confederacy as a independent state.. Secondly, thats if they even seceded justly which they did not..http://www.civil-war.net/pages/ordinances_secession.asp Lincoln was not attacking a independent nation as so much trying to bring the coutnry back again.. This has happened through out history, Lincoln was justified in most historians eyes.. Also the confederacy was not for small governments, they infact created a whole confederacy government witha president as well. Read the confederacy bill of rights. it gives the states full power.Top that off sooner or later a fight was goign to break out.. Witht he underground railroad being as it is, southern slave catchers would undoubtly come into union territory to try to pick up slaves..This would be considered a act of war in most nations eyes..

It was going to happen sooner or later.

whatever you say.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="jlh47"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. jlh47

[QUOTE="CommanderShiro"]It represents Southern Heritage and Pride. People believe it represents hate because groups like the KKK and Skinheads are using it the wrong way. I know so many people that wear the flag with pride and they are not racist at all. If they were they wouldn't be my friend. sSubZerOo

The secession from the union, and the creation of the confederacy (which the Confederate flag represents) directly has to do with the insitution of slavery.. Thats why they seceded and that is it. And I also find this laughable "sourthern heritage and pride" yeah because the support of one the darkest parts in our history, slavery, is somethign to take pride in.

The south also pressed forward liberty breaking laws like the Fugitive Slave Act.. Which took away herbus Corpus, it made any free blacks in the north completely at risk from being kid napped.. That happened quite often where slavers went across the Ohio river grabbed a free black person.. Brought them infront of a judge and claimed it was theirs.. For the most part they were given it, inless anotehr white person spoke out agianst them.. Most did not.. Slavery was a huge hot button topic.. That if you even mentioned going against it, you were garenteed to have violence acted upon you.. Perhaps you should do some reading on this.. Because if anything the South in trying to combat anti slavery was far more vicious then the north.

Whether it was better living conditions, taxes, or changes of policies down there. Both sides lived different ways of life and had no idea what was best for each other. The South didn't enjoy Northern States making all their decisions when they had no idea how things were down in the South.

Completely false.. The states were evenly split for that exact reason.. And the majority of the north was for slavery for the longest time possible.. Abolitionist for the longest time were considered extremists.. And slavery became even more popular with the invention of the cotton gin.

If it was about slavery why did 5 slave states fight on the Union side? The war was fought over the constant involvement the Federal Government had in State Government.

Because they did not want to break up with the north.. Because they held alot in common with the north.. And also your point is irrelevent. The north did not originally want to abolitiost slavery.. The south SECEDED because they THOUGHT the north was going to abolitist slavery with Lincoln. Lincoln specificially was worried about doing this and prolonged this during the war by only freeing slaves legally in the confederacy, not the slave states that were in the north..

The reason why the South Seceded was because of slavery.. Plain and simple.. There is no way to get around it.. They feared Linclon would destroy their ways of life by abolitioning slavery.

so every southerner owned slaves?

I liked lincoln, but he didn't have the right to go to war with an independent nation. i'm glad he did though.

Just because the minority owned slaves in the south doesn't mean they were against it.. Most if not every one in southern communities and most in the north found it to be fine.. Not only did alot of proslave countries claim that the bible justified slavery, but they also thought blacks to be inferior, not to mention there was alot of racism during that time.. Read up any abolitionists trying to do a speech in the south.. Some were beaten unconcious, others were even shot dead.. The majority of the south supported slavery even if they themselves did not have slaves.

Not neccesarly for one thats if we even saw the confederacy as a independent state.. Secondly, thats if they even seceded justly which they did not..http://www.civil-war.net/pages/ordinances_secession.asp Lincoln was not attacking a independent nation as so much trying to bring the coutnry back again.. This has happened through out history, Lincoln was justified in most historians eyes.. Also the confederacy was not for small governments, they infact created a whole confederacy government witha president as well. Read the confederacy bill of rights. it gives the states full power.Top that off sooner or later a fight was goign to break out.. Witht he underground railroad being as it is, southern slave catchers would undoubtly come into union territory to try to pick up slaves..This would be considered a act of war in most nations eyes..

It was going to happen sooner or later.

whatever you say.

Yet again what does slavery keep on going in here? I know that Grant had slaves, but WHAT DOES THIS have anything to do with the south seceding.. They FEARED that the north would abolitist all slavery not that they did.. They seceded even before Lincoln coul give his inaugral speech for crying out loud..

And secondly they had to enforce a draft later on for the south.. So the Confederacy bill of rights during the war had to be some what changed.

I don't think there is really that much wrong with the confederate flag. Sure, people and groups use it for the wrong reason (namely the KKK and Neo Nazis) but symbols have been misreprented throughout history.

I see the confederate flag standing more for a culture and way of life instead of slavery. The antebellum North and South were completely different from each other in most respects. In fact, the Civil War was fought over many different things, slavery just being one of the reasons.

I am not condoning or downplaying slavery of anyone anywhere. But I think it is important to understand what was going on at that time and not limit the symbol of the confederate flag to biggotry.

1. Slavery was based on economic necessity, not racism.

It is a symbol of my ancestors and I proudly wave a Confederate flag. I do not advocate slavery and am glad that the Union won the war, but assigning a racist connotation to the entire Confederacy is ignorant.

The confederacy was made by a act of revolt/secession whihc primary purpose was slavery.

1. Slavery was based on economic necessity, not racism.

It was a matter of both.. On one hand slavers justfied it by saying the bible said it was so, and they also found slavery to help the inferior black race in their own words.

2. The Union government didn't care about the well-being of black people any more than the South did. The Union wanted to end slavery because it gave the South too much power, and Lincoln was threatened by it. Don't ever, ever confuse the abolitionist movement with the Union government.

Which has nothing to do with it.. No one was argueing that point what so ever.. We were argueing that the confederacy flag is a symbol to racism and slavery.

3. Slavery was but one of many (albeit the largest) factors that caused the Civil War.

It was largest by a mile.. Proof in this is when the southern states seceded before Lincoln's inaugral speech was even spoken.. With their canidate who lost, they thought Lincoln was going to free the slaves..

4. When the war started, Grant owned slaves and Lee did not/

Irrelevent.. No one is saying the North were saints, I infact said that slavery was supported by the entire US for a long time. That still doesn't take away the fact that the main reason why the seccession and the creation of the southern governmen was to protect slavery as a instiution.

5. Less than 1/3 of all Southerners owned slaves.

Irrelevent.. For one racism was still immense in those areas. Secondly just because people didn't own slaves did not mean they wished to see them go free what so ever.. The majority of the attacks on abolitionist were not by slave owners what so ever. Not to mention the rich class that owned slaves controled the governments for the most part.

6. Less than 15% of all soldiers owned slaves.

Yet again irrelevent what does this have to do with the flag?

7. Spain, France, and Portugal started the slave trade. Should we be offended by their respective flags? So no, I will not take down my Confederate flag. If you're offended by it, you need a history lesson.

It would make sense if their flags were created to defend that instiution.. But they were not.. The confederacy flag and its organization it represented was directly made to protect the injust insitution of slavery.. If you need nationalism pride, then use your state flag or the United States flag.. Not some flag made in rebellion for fear that their injust organization dismantled thus crushing their economy and way of life.. Not to mention going against their beliefs in not only the Bible but moral beliefs..

Many southerners believed the Bible gave them justification that god wanted the whites to have slaves.. And that slaves were inferior and that it was for their best to be controled by whites.

SmashBrosLegend

The flag that you are referring to was the main battle flag of the Confederate army. The originally Confederate flag was not the "Southern Cross", though later flags utilized it. I have always taken it as pride of the Confederate army and how they fought a military that was larger, has more supplies, and better technology and nearly won.ShuLordLiuPei

Yeah which is very commendable.. But Lincoln had a helluva time trying to find a competent general.. It was only intill he found Grant did the war start going infavor of the North for the most part.. Grant and Sherman delt huge blows to the South.. Grant through Attrition, where he understood that winning the battles would not win the war but by killing as many soldiers of the south as possible..

While SHerman was sweeping through enemy terrotory burning down and destroying their economy and supplies.. As well as breaking the morale of Southern Troops.