Debate: condoms in school?

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Sorry but it isn't. It's giving students the means to protect themselves.

sSubZerOo

Sex is none of their business................... but here's some condoms?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] Sorry, it IS condoning the behavior.YellowOneKinobi

Sex is none of their business................... but here's some condoms?

People who want to give out condoms at school clearly mean well, but don't quite realise how counter-productive that is. If kids want to have sex they can buy their own condoms or deal with the consequences. Remember what consequences were? The results of doing something. Kids don't seem to have those anymore.harashawn

[QUOTE="harashawn"]People who want to give out condoms at school clearly mean well, but don't quite realise how counter-productive that is. If kids want to have sex they can buy their own condoms or deal with the consequences. Remember what consequences were? The results of doing something. Kids don't seem to have those anymore.rawsavon

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="harashawn"]People who want to give out condoms at school clearly mean well, but don't quite realise how counter-productive that is. If kids want to have sex they can buy their own condoms or deal with the consequences. Remember what consequences were? The results of doing something. Kids don't seem to have those anymore.YellowOneKinobi

TO YOU.
...not to me

And I would take measures to deal with overweight children if given the chance. I don't care about them, but I do care about their bills making my bills higher...having to help pay for all their health problems.
If you take unnecessary risks that affect my bottom line, then I feel I have a say in what you do.
If you are 100% covered by yourself, then do what you want

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] And 'you' will also have consequences for not handing them out -increased pregnancies and STD's will cost 'you' as well Scenario 1: They are on welfare/gov assistance -society will cover 100% of the costs Scenario 2: They have insurance -they will pay for what insurance does not cover -'we' all pay for what insurance pays for (the costs are spread around all people that pay into insurance) Scenario 3: Universal healthcare -everyone pays the costs associated with medical visits/treatments So your decision not to hand them out will also have financial consequences that far outweigh the costs of handing out condomsrawsavon

TO YOU.
...not to me

And I would take measures to deal with overweight children if given the chance. I don't care about them, but I do care about their bills making my bills higher...having to help pay for all their health problems.
If you take unnecessary risks that affect my bottom line, then I feel I have a say in what you do.
If you are 100% covered by yourself, then do what you want

Now adays kids are getting pregnet more and more in high school. I graduated when 2 people were pregnet. The year after had 4 pregnet people.... maybe if they give condoms they might actually not get pregnet. :/

We can also save COUNTLESS dollars preventing people from going on vacations (traffic accidents), having hobbies like rock climbing and hiking (when they need to be rescued), etc, etc. This isn't about dollars and cents. To reiterate, I had stated earlier that I'm not against the idea of schools having condoms available to older students, provided there is some education on the socialogical and psychiological affects of having sex. The question that I'm wrestling with, is where the school system is justified in getting involved in something like this. I'm not saying that NO schools should do it, I'm just trying to figure out how it's their place to do it. What authority. We have obese kids, but they wouldn't dare hand out diet pills. Kids do drugs, but they wouldn't hand out clean needles. It's a complex issue, but I think just saying "Ah, kids are going to do it anyway" isn't a good justification.YellowOneKinobi

TO YOU.
...not to me

And I would take measures to deal with overweight children if given the chance. I don't care about them, but I do care about their bills making my bills higher...having to help pay for all their health problems.
If you take unnecessary risks that affect my bottom line, then I feel I have a say in what you do.
If you are 100% covered by yourself, then do what you want

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="rawsavon"]

TO YOU.
...not to me

And I would take measures to deal with overweight children if given the chance. I don't care about them, but I do care about their bills making my bills higher...having to help pay for all their health problems.
If you take unnecessary risks that affect my bottom line, then I feel I have a say in what you do.
If you are 100% covered by yourself, then do what you want

rawsavon

Of course, it might also give kids reason to pause and give another thought to what they are about to embark on, which may bring your expenses down.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] Just curious, would you propose parental notification and/or permission for, say, 14 year olds asking for condoms?YellowOneKinobi

Of course, it might also give kids reason to pause and give another thought to what they are about to embark on, which may bring your expenses down.

I have no problems with kids using condoms, in fact, I would prefer if they would. However, I don't think school is the best place to have such a venue. There are other places where they can have distribution of these things.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

Of course, it might also give kids reason to pause and give another thought to what they are about to embark on, which may bring your expenses down.

rawsavon

I agree that statistics show that kids are engaging in sexual activity at younger ages, but I think this coincides with sex education being introduced at lower grade levels (I sort of lump the condom distribution in with that).

I'd staple them to handouts about safe-sex and hand them out to everyone. (joke)

And yes, I think it's a good idea to keep a big jar of them in a nurse's office and to show how to put them on in health class.

Though that'd never happen in the town I'm from. They fired our health teacher for demonstrating on a cucumber.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

Of course, it might also give kids reason to pause and give another thought to what they are about to embark on, which may bring your expenses down.

I agree that statistics show that kids are engaging in sexual activity at younger ages, but I think this coincides with sex education being introduced at lower grade levels (I sort of lump the condom distribution in with that).

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Yes, at all schools. All. If someone asks for it it should be given to them because not having it isn't going to prevent them from having sex, it will only prevent them from having safe sex. And I've yet to see a study that linked giving out condoms to increased sex in teens. Even if such a study exists, I would not see the big deal. It's time society realized sex is not some horrid evil thing that must be shunned.

YellowOneKinobi

Do I really need to explain why this isn't a remotely valid comparison?

QUOTE]

I agree that statistics show that kids are engaging in sexual activity at younger ages, but I think this coincides with sex education being introduced at lower grade levels (I sort of lump the condom distribution in with that).

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

QUOTE]

I agree that statistics show that kids are engaging in sexual activity at younger ages, but I think this coincides with sex education being introduced at lower grade levels (I sort of lump the condom distribution in with that).

YellowOneKinobi

Facts from 4 years ago (Dec 2006)
I summarized them, but you can view the whole thing if you want.
My point stands that real sex ed is decreasing...though abstinence only sex ed is increasing
Link: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_sexEd2006.html

1. Of the approximately 750,000 teen pregnancies that occur each year, 82% are unintended. More than one-quarter end in abortion
2. The pregnancy rate among U.S. women aged 15–19 has declined steadily—from 117 pregnancies per 1,000 women in 1990 to 75 per 1,000 women in 2002
BUT
Approximately 14% of the decline in teen pregnancy between 1995 and 2002 was due to teens' delaying sex or having sex less often, while 86% was due to an increase in sexually experienced teens' contraceptive use
3. Despite the decline, the United States continues to have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the developed world—almost twice as high as those of England, Wales and Canada, and eight times as high as those of the Netherlands and Japan
4. Every year, roughly nine million new sexually transmitted infections (STIs) occur among teens and young adults in the United States
5. Though teens in the United States have levels of sexual activity similar to levels among their Canadian, English, French and Swedish peers, they are more likely to have shorter and more sporadic sexual relationships and are less likely to use contraceptives
6. By 2002, one-third of teens had not received any formal instruction about contraception
7.
-More than one in five adolescents (21% of females and 24% of males) received abstinence education without receiving instruction about birth control in 2002, compared with 8–9% in 1995.
-In 2002, only 62% of sexually experienced female teens had received instruction about contraception before they first had sex, compared with 72% in 1995.
-Sex education teachers were more likely to focus on abstinence and less likely to provide students with information on birth control, how to obtain contraceptive services, sexual orientation and abortion in 1999 than they were in 1988
-In 1999, one in four sex education teachers taught abstinence as the only way to prevent pregnancy and STIs—a huge increase from 1988, when the fraction was just one in 50
-More than nine in 10 teachers believe that students should be taught about contraception, but one in four are prohibited from doing so
-Eighty-six percent of the public school districts that have a policy to teach sex education require that abstinence be promoted. Some 35% require abstinence to be taught as the only option for unmarried people and either prohibit the discussion of contraception altogether or limit discussion to its ineffectiveness.
Abstinence only sex ed is on the rise in schools...not 'real' sex ed

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] That's an odd stance to take considering that sex ed is being taken out in a great many places :?rawsavon

Facts from 4 years ago (Dec 2006)
I summarized them, but you can view the whole thing if you want.
My point stands that real sex ed is decreasing...though abstinence only sex ed is increasing

Sorry, but that is not a reliable source in my opinion..... "The Guttmacher Institute in 1968 was founded as the "Center for Family Planning Program Development", a semi-autonomous division of The Planned Parenthood Federation of America." Planned parenthood is hardly a middle-of-the-road and unbiased organization.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] You think so? From what I've read, the opposite seems to be the case. I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, but that's not what I've seen.YellowOneKinobi

Facts from 4 years ago (Dec 2006)
I summarized them, but you can view the whole thing if you want.
My point stands that real sex ed is decreasing...though abstinence only sex ed is increasing

Sorry, but that is not a reliable source in my opinion..... "The Guttmacher Institute in 1968 was founded as the "Center for Family Planning Program Development", a semi-autonomous division of The Planned Parenthood Federation of America." Planned parenthood is hardly a middle-of-the-road and unbiased organization.

Feel free to present some stats that counter it.
Until that point though....

Though I don't see how anyone could dispute what is happening with sex ed (decreased education about contraception, increased abstinence only education) OR dispute the statistics comparing American teenagers to that of other 'Western' cultures
:?
But you are free to believe w/e you want to :)

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

Facts from 4 years ago (Dec 2006)
I summarized them, but you can view the whole thing if you want.
My point stands that real sex ed is decreasing...though abstinence only sex ed is increasing rawsavon

Sorry, but that is not a reliable source in my opinion..... "The Guttmacher Institute in 1968 was founded as the "Center for Family Planning Program Development", a semi-autonomous division of The Planned Parenthood Federation of America." Planned parenthood is hardly a middle-of-the-road and unbiased organization.

Feel free to present some stats that counter it.

If it were a little earlier in the day I would find some stats/links. But in any event, it seems like every other week I'm hearing about a new sex ed program aimed at younger and younger captive audiences. I live in NY so that might be localized a bit to my immediate area.

I'm not sure EXACTLY what goes on now in the schools, but my experience I thought was the most productive. I remember it was in 6th grade (the year before we went off to H.S. - no middle schools where I live) and it was a several hour long **** given in the evening in which parents were asked to attend as well. It went through both the biological AND social aspects of sexuality, and included segments on "protection" and contraception. In that case, I think the timing was right because were were all old enough to grasp what was being said, and not TOO young, because we would soon be in the mix with older and more mature students. So, with the right guidance NOT ONLY from schools, but from parents as well, I think for the most part we all had a reasonable understand of the subject matter.

As for the original topic, my stance hasn't really changed. I'm not against schools giving out condoms (as long as age is factored into the equation along with providing information not just limited to "how to use.") As always, great discussing/debating with ya. I look forward to the next time.

I have no problems with kids using condoms, in fact, I would prefer if they would. However, I don't think school is the best place to have such a venue. There are other places where they can have distribution of these things.

sonicare

What other places would you propose? I honestly can't think of a better place than school.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

Sorry, but that is not a reliable source in my opinion..... "The Guttmacher Institute in 1968 was founded as the "Center for Family Planning Program Development", a semi-autonomous division of The Planned Parenthood Federation of America." Planned parenthood is hardly a middle-of-the-road and unbiased organization.

YellowOneKinobi

Feel free to present some stats that counter it.

If it were a little earlier in the day I would find some stats/links. But in any event, it seems like every other week I'm hearing about a new sex ed program aimed at younger and younger captive audiences. I live in NY so that might be localized a bit to my immediate area.

I'm not sure EXACTLY what goes on now in the schools, but my experience I thought was the most productive. I remember it was in 6th grade (the year before we went off to H.S. - no middle schools where I live) and it was a several hour long **** given in the evening in which parents were asked to attend as well. It went through both the biological AND social aspects of sexuality, and included segments on "protection" and contraception. In that case, I think the timing was right because were were all old enough to grasp what was being said, and not TOO young, because we would soon be in the mix with older and more mature students. So, with the right guidance NOT ONLY from schools, but from parents as well, I think for the most part we all had a reasonable understand of the subject matter.

As for the original topic, my stance hasn't really changed. I'm not against schools giving out condoms (as long as age is factored into the equation along with providing information not just limited to "how to use.") As always, great discussing/debating with ya. I look forward to the next time.

That is where the problem lies. Your experience is not the norm (at least according to statistics).
...most of the country is not like NY (for better or for worse).

This is why we can't just go off of what is was like 'for us'.
Otherwise , I would just say what is was like when I was young or what is waslike when I taught HS

See you later

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

I have no problems with kids using condoms, in fact, I would prefer if they would. However, I don't think school is the best place to have such a venue. There are other places where they can have distribution of these things.

worlock77

What other places would you propose? I honestly can't think of a better place than school.

Pharmacies are already legally obligated to sell condoms to anyone regardless of age, I don't see the point of including schools in that.Amber084

Absolutely. Although some parents have idea that talking about it will somehow "awaken their sexual drives" that's the time when they need to learn about sex safe.

Pharmacies are already legally obligated to sell condoms to anyone regardless of age, I don't see the point of including schools in that.Amber084

Kids won't necessarily have the money to purchase condoms at a pharmacy, may not be able to get to a pharmacy (I grew up in a village that had no pharmacy, the nearest one was in a different town more than 10 miles away), or they may simply be too embarrassed to ask for condoms in public.

[QUOTE="Amber084"]Pharmacies are already legally obligated to sell condoms to anyone regardless of age, I don't see the point of including schools in that.worlock77

Kids won't necessarily have the money to purchase condoms at a pharmacy, may not be able to get to a pharmacy (I grew up in a village that had no pharmacy, the nearest one was in a different town more than 10 miles away), or they may simply be too embarrassed to ask for condoms in public.