disicipline children...illegal?

[QUOTE="Oriental_Jams"][QUOTE="raider1648"]

dude its worked for about ten of my families generations and we all love and respect our parents. Its not like we got abused but we were just disciplined.

MrGeezer

Dude, not spanking has worked for about all my family, myself and most of my friends and we love and respect our parents. It's not like we weren't being taught what was right and wrong, our parents just used words rather than hands.

The thing is, I don't see anyone telling you how to raise your kids.

I get people telling me what I should do when I have them though ;)

[QUOTE="Oriental_Jams"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Thank you, hitting your kid is taking the easy way out.

MrGeezer

How is easy=bad? Have you ever heard the saying "work smarter, not harder?"

Taking the hard way out doesn't make you a GOOD parent, that just makes you innefficient.

Guess the US should've just completely bombed the hell out of Iraq then, it would've been easier.

Or the USA should have launched a full scale land invasion of Japan, since it would have been harder. :roll:

Pain is the best teacher.

Most of the 'life lessons' that I remember involve pain. When I get hurt, I take immediate action to ensure that I won't get hurt again in the future by repeating that action. Through parental discipline bad things in my life were associated with pain, and therefore I stopped doing that bad thing.

Nagru

Also just hitting a kid whenever they do something wrong isn't good. You do need to discuss with your child what it was that they did wrong and explain why they're being punished.

This worked for me and I can assure that it will work for many a bratty kid out there.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Thank you, hitting your kid is taking the easy way out.

MrGeezer

How is easy=bad? Have you ever heard the saying "work smarter, not harder?"

Taking the hard way out doesn't make you a GOOD parent, that just makes you innefficient.

Bingo.

No, spanking children has been shown to not change the behavior in the long term. It has on the other hand been shown that children who are spanked are more likely to end up in federal prison, commit a felony, have low self esteem, they also make less money, and are more likely to abuse their spouse/children. Because of this, it should be illegal.yoshi-lnex

Where has it been shown? Can you verify your argument? Besides, how can you even confirm that the spanking in these cases were not in fact abuse or how can you show that it's even related?

No, spanking children has been shown to not change the behavior in the long term. It has on the other hand been shown that children who are spanked are more likely to end up in federal prison, commit a felony, have low self esteem, they also make less money, are more likely to pick/be in a fight, and are more likely to abuse their spouse/children. Because of this, it should be illegal.yoshi-lnex

Those exact same statistics have been shown to apply to PUNISHMENT IN GENERAL.

And yes, spanking is a form of punishment.

If you think that ALL punishment should be illegal, then it also stands to reason that spanking should be illegal.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Oriental_Jams"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Thank you, hitting your kid is taking the easy way out.

achilles614

How is easy=bad? Have you ever heard the saying "work smarter, not harder?"

Taking the hard way out doesn't make you a GOOD parent, that just makes you innefficient.

Guess the US should've just completely bombed the hell out of Iraq then, it would've been easier.

Or the USA should have launched a full scale land invasion of Japan, since it would have been harder. :roll:

Awww, but I tried so hard :cry:

I didnt put in a vote because the question is not clear.

But yes i think people should be alowed to spank thier kid... i mean just look at the kids and teens nowadays very disrespectful :(

Kids respond and learn faster from actions and not words that they might not fully understand yet.

I didnt put in a vote because the question is not clear.

But yes i think people should be alowed to spank thier kid... i mean just look at the kids and teens nowadays very disrespectful :(

Kids respond and learn faster from actions and not words that they might not fully understand yet.

L8erSquare

I agree. I think children could benefit from both. You simply can't expect a well balanced child from just one or the other.

I didnt put in a vote because the question is not clear.

But yes i think people should be alowed to spank thier kid... i mean just look at the kids and teens nowadays very disrespectful :(

Kids respond and learn faster from actions and not words that they might not fully understand yet.

L8erSquare

One shouldn't generalise.

[QUOTE="L8erSquare"]

I didnt put in a vote because the question is not clear.

But yes i think people should be alowed to spank thier kid... i mean just look at the kids and teens nowadays very disrespectful :(

Kids respond and learn faster from actions and not words that they might not fully understand yet.

Oriental_Jams

One shouldn't generalise.

Were you just not doing so earlier for kids who are spanked?

[QUOTE="Oriental_Jams"]

One shouldn't generalise.

-R3Vo

Were you just not doing so earlier for kids who are spanked?

PWN'D!

I didnt put in a vote because the question is not clear.

But yes i think people should be alowed to spank thier kid... i mean just look at the kids and teens nowadays very disrespectful :(

Kids respond and learn faster from actions and not words that they might not fully understand yet.

L8erSquare

[QUOTE="Oriental_Jams"][QUOTE="L8erSquare"]

I didnt put in a vote because the question is not clear.

But yes i think people should be alowed to spank thier kid... i mean just look at the kids and teens nowadays very disrespectful :(

Kids respond and learn faster from actions and not words that they might not fully understand yet.

-R3Vo

One shouldn't generalise.

Were you just not doing so earlier for kids who are spanked?

Nope, can't see where I generalised, maybe I missed one of my posts.

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]No, spanking children has been shown to not change the behavior in the long term. It has on the other hand been shown that children who are spanked are more likely to end up in federal prison, commit a felony, have low self esteem, they also make less money, and are more likely to abuse their spouse/children. Because of this, it should be illegal.Boba_Fett_3710

Where has it been shown? Can you verify your argument? Besides, how can you even confirm that the spanking in these cases were not in fact abuse or how can you show that it's even related?

Source 1 Spanking causes sexual problems as adults and teens.

Source 2 spanking can cause a child to not learn to judge based on what is right or wrong or properly develop a conscience

Source 3 Causes agression, anti social behavior, and low self esteem.

Source 4 Increases criminality,anxiety, depresion, less likely to go to college, more likely to commit crimes, more likely to have aggressive and dangerous sex practices.

Is this what you wanted? I can look for more sources if you wish.

[QUOTE="L8erSquare"]

I didnt put in a vote because the question is not clear.

But yes i think people should be alowed to spank thier kid... i mean just look at the kids and teens nowadays very disrespectful :(

Kids respond and learn faster from actions and not words that they might not fully understand yet.

Oriental_Jams

One shouldn't generalise.

My bad. There are some respectful kids out there, dont get me wrong, but i bet it was because they were disiciplined with a spank sometimes.

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]No, spanking children has been shown to not change the behavior in the long term. It has on the other hand been shown that children who are spanked are more likely to end up in federal prison, commit a felony, have low self esteem, they also make less money, are more likely to pick/be in a fight, and are more likely to abuse their spouse/children. Because of this, it should be illegal.MrGeezer

Those exact same statistics have been shown to apply to PUNISHMENT IN GENERAL.

And yes, spanking is a form of punishment.

If you think that ALL punishment should be illegal, then it also stands to reason that spanking should be illegal.

Here's a few sources related to the matter

Source 1 Spanking causes sexual problems as adults and teens.

Source 2 spanking can cause a child to not learn to judge based on what is right or wrong or properly develop a conscience

Source 3 Causes agression, anti social behavior, and low self esteem.

Source 4 Increases criminality,anxiety, depresion, less likely to go to college, more likely to commit crimes, more likely to have aggressive and dangerous sex practices.

Is this what you wanted? I can look for more sources if you wish.

yoshi-lnex

Well-played, but you can't prove that this was a result of spanking alone and not also the fault of poor parenting as a contributing factor. Whether you spank or not, your kid is going to turn out a bad apple if you lack the structure of a parent.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]No, spanking children has been shown to not change the behavior in the long term. It has on the other hand been shown that children who are spanked are more likely to end up in federal prison, commit a felony, have low self esteem, they also make less money, are more likely to pick/be in a fight, and are more likely to abuse their spouse/children. Because of this, it should be illegal.yoshi-lnex

Those exact same statistics have been shown to apply to PUNISHMENT IN GENERAL.

And yes, spanking is a form of punishment.

If you think that ALL punishment should be illegal, then it also stands to reason that spanking should be illegal.

Well cant you do both? I dont think anyone should just spank a kid without explaing to the kid why. A spank alone will not disicipline well.

meh when i was bad my parent didnt just spank me, they literately tore me apart ahem, imo kids these day have it easy ciaxhieu

The studies just refer to beating children period. Proper punishment, like speaking to children about a problem has been shown to help a child develop a better sense of right and wrong.L8erSquare

Well cant you do both? I dont think anyone should just spank a kid without explaing to the kid why. A spank alone will not disicipline well.

Agree. If the child knows that what he is doing is wrong, he will most like not do it again. You can't just spank a kid and not tell them why they were disciplined.

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]

Here's a few sources related to the matter

Source 1 Spanking causes sexual problems as adults and teens.

Source 2 spanking can cause a child to not learn to judge based on what is right or wrong or properly develop a conscience

Source 3 Causes agression, anti social behavior, and low self esteem.

Source 4 Increases criminality,anxiety, depresion, less likely to go to college, more likely to commit crimes, more likely to have aggressive and dangerous sex practices.

Is this what you wanted? I can look for more sources if you wish.

Boba_Fett_3710

Well-played, but you can't prove that this was a result of spanking alone and not also the fault of poor parenting as a contributing factor. Whether you spank or not, your kid is going to turn out a bad apple if you lack the structure of a parent.

[QUOTE="Rekunta"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Smacking around your kids is unnecessary and wrong, in my opinion. I don't think it should be legal. Parents should never have to resort to using pain as a preventative measure.MrGeezer

You can't try to have a symposium with your 4 year old child when they're screaming in McDonalds or the Greocery store. You definately can't negotiate, because that shows weakness, and obviously tells them that what they are doing is right.

You're a part of the problem.

You act as if they're trying to break their arm... It's a smack on their bottom, releasing hormones and letting them know that they don't control you.

Agreed. On another note, anyone that hits their child is telling them that aggression is acceptable. Good parenting? I think not.

That's like saying that you're teaching your kids that stealing is acceptable when you punish them by taking away their X-Box.

No, not with the assurance that if they clean up their act they will get it back in return. There's a difference between abuse and discipline.

You should be able to grab your child and smack it with your fist until it says "Daddy my eyes hurt, I can't see and I smell more blood I taste." That's when you grab him and shake him into a series of whiplases and cervical fractures as you shout "Shut up you little son of a **** Then you shut the window and throw him through it. Go outside put his fingers in the door jam and slam the door shut. Take him over to the car smash the window with his head then put his head in the door way and just slam the door on his head. Go to the mall wheel him around on a dolly then chuck him down the escalator. After you finish disciplining it you tell it that's what it gets for eating candy before dinner and if anyone asks he's clumsy.MagnumPI

:lol:

Am I a bad person? :?

[QUOTE="Oriental_Jams"][QUOTE="raider1648"]

dude its worked for about ten of my families generations and we all love and respect our parents. Its not like we got abused but we were just disciplined.

MrGeezer

Dude, not spanking has worked for about all my family, myself and most of my friends and we love and respect our parents. It's not like we weren't being taught what was right and wrong, our parents just used words rather than hands.

The thing is, I don't see anyone telling you how to raise your kids.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]No, spanking children has been shown to not change the behavior in the long term. It has on the other hand been shown that children who are spanked are more likely to end up in federal prison, commit a felony, have low self esteem, they also make less money, are more likely to pick/be in a fight, and are more likely to abuse their spouse/children. Because of this, it should be illegal.yoshi-lnex

Those exact same statistics have been shown to apply to PUNISHMENT IN GENERAL.

And yes, spanking is a form of punishment.

If you think that ALL punishment should be illegal, then it also stands to reason that spanking should be illegal.

Actually, ALL punishment HAS been shown to have similar effects. I"ll dig up some links later when I have time, but punishment period has been shown to be far less effective than positive reinforcement.

Secondly, all of these studies merely show a CORRELATION between punishment (or more specifically spanking), and don't demonstrate CAUSATION.

Thirdly, studies typically don't distinguish what KIND of hitting is used. A light slap on the butt is lumped in with a punch to the face.

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]

Here's a few sources related to the matter

Source 1 Spanking causes sexual problems as adults and teens.

Source 2 spanking can cause a child to not learn to judge based on what is right or wrong or properly develop a conscience

Source 3 Causes agression, anti social behavior, and low self esteem.

Source 4 Increases criminality,anxiety, depresion, less likely to go to college, more likely to commit crimes, more likely to have aggressive and dangerous sex practices.

Is this what you wanted? I can look for more sources if you wish.

yoshi-lnex

Well-played, but you can't prove that this was a result of spanking alone and not also the fault of poor parenting as a contributing factor. Whether you spank or not, your kid is going to turn out a bad apple if you lack the structure of a parent.

That doesn't establish causation, though. It very well may just mean that bad parents are more likely to use spanking as a form of punishment.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Rekunta"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Smacking around your kids is unnecessary and wrong, in my opinion. I don't think it should be legal. Parents should never have to resort to using pain as a preventative measure.Rekunta

You can't try to have a symposium with your 4 year old child when they're screaming in McDonalds or the Greocery store. You definately can't negotiate, because that shows weakness, and obviously tells them that what they are doing is right.

You're a part of the problem.

You act as if they're trying to break their arm... It's a smack on their bottom, releasing hormones and letting them know that they don't control you.

Agreed. On another note, anyone that hits their child is telling them that aggression is acceptable. Good parenting? I think not.

That's like saying that you're teaching your kids that stealing is acceptable when you punish them by taking away their X-Box.

No, not with the assurance that if they clean up their act they will get it back in return. There's a difference between abuse and discipline.

Who's to say that they deserve it back at all? Now you're working under the notion that your kid is ENTITLED to an X-Box. That if you take it away from him, you've gotta eventually give it back.

Yeah, there's a difference between abuse and discipline. There's also a big ****ing difference between spanking and starting fights. Your kid beating the **** out of someone because he's mad isn't ANYTHING like spanking a kid in a calm, controlled manner.

If you're gonna compare apples and oranges, then compare apples and oranges. I don't see why you'd draw the line at comparing a granny smith apple to a blood orange.

[QUOTE="Rekunta"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Rekunta"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Smacking around your kids is unnecessary and wrong, in my opinion. I don't think it should be legal. Parents should never have to resort to using pain as a preventative measure.MrGeezer

You can't try to have a symposium with your 4 year old child when they're screaming in McDonalds or the Greocery store. You definately can't negotiate, because that shows weakness, and obviously tells them that what they are doing is right.

You're a part of the problem.

You act as if they're trying to break their arm... It's a smack on their bottom, releasing hormones and letting them know that they don't control you.

Agreed. On another note, anyone that hits their child is telling them that aggression is acceptable. Good parenting? I think not.

That's like saying that you're teaching your kids that stealing is acceptable when you punish them by taking away their X-Box.

No, not with the assurance that if they clean up their act they will get it back in return. There's a difference between abuse and discipline.

Who's to say that they deserve it back at all? Now you're working under the notion that your kid is ENTITLED to an X-Box. That if you take it away from him, you've gotta eventually give it back.

Yeah, there's a difference between abuse and discipline. There's also a big ****ing difference between spanking and starting fights. Your kid beating the **** out of someone because he's mad isn't ANYTHING like spanking a kid in a calm, controlled manner.

If you're gonna compare apples and oranges, then compare apples and oranges. I don't see why you'd draw the line at comparing a granny smith apple to a blood orange.

Who the hell says they're entitled? They're PRIVILEGED to have an X-Box. Big difference. I don't have to give ANYTHING back, and can take and return anything the hell I want that is dependent upon their behavior.

And where do you draw the line between spanking and hitting, tell me? You are a hypocrite if you condone one and allow the other based on the rationale of severity.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Rekunta"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Rekunta"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Smacking around your kids is unnecessary and wrong, in my opinion. I don't think it should be legal. Parents should never have to resort to using pain as a preventative measure.Rekunta

You can't try to have a symposium with your 4 year old child when they're screaming in McDonalds or the Greocery store. You definately can't negotiate, because that shows weakness, and obviously tells them that what they are doing is right.

You're a part of the problem.

You act as if they're trying to break their arm... It's a smack on their bottom, releasing hormones and letting them know that they don't control you.

Agreed. On another note, anyone that hits their child is telling them that aggression is acceptable. Good parenting? I think not.

That's like saying that you're teaching your kids that stealing is acceptable when you punish them by taking away their X-Box.

No, not with the assurance that if they clean up their act they will get it back in return. There's a difference between abuse and discipline.

Who's to say that they deserve it back at all? Now you're working under the notion that your kid is ENTITLED to an X-Box. That if you take it away from him, you've gotta eventually give it back.

Yeah, there's a difference between abuse and discipline. There's also a big ****ing difference between spanking and starting fights. Your kid beating the **** out of someone because he's mad isn't ANYTHING like spanking a kid in a calm, controlled manner.

If you're gonna compare apples and oranges, then compare apples and oranges. I don't see why you'd draw the line at comparing a granny smith apple to a blood orange.

Who the hell says they're entitled? They're PRIVILEGED to have an X-Box. Big difference. I don't have to give ANYTHING back, and can take and return anything the hell I want that is dependent upon their behavior.

And where do you draw the line between spanking and hitting, tell me? You are a hypocrite if you condone one and allow the other based on the rationale of severity.

That's what I was saying. Yeah, I can take away my kid's stuff, and I don't have to give it back. Is that sending them the lesson that they can take things that belong to other people?

Where do I draw the line between spanking my kid, and my kid punching a dude in the face? It's the EXACT SAME LINE that makes it okay to take away Little Timmy's X-Box, but makes it NOT okay for Little Timmy to steal a friend's Ipod.

The level of severity certainly matters. You can punish your kid by making him mow the lawn, but you can't make him haul rocks for 48 hours straight with no sleep. Raising your voice at your kid is also different than calling him a worthless little ****head. And yes, smacking him on his butt is different than punching him in the face. Level of severity absolutely matters. Pretty much ANY punishment can become abusive if taken to the extreme.

However, level of severity isn't ALL that matters. Parents have AUTHORITY over their kids. You have authority to take your kid's Xbox. Your kid, however, does not have authority to take someone else's Xbox, since he is not their legal guardian. You also have authority to punish your kid in other ways, such as by spanking them. You do NOT have authority to walk up to some random man in the mall and spank him.

I can't believe you actually need this explained.

[QUOTE="Rekunta"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Rekunta"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Rekunta"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="-R3Vo"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Smacking around your kids is unnecessary and wrong, in my opinion. I don't think it should be legal. Parents should never have to resort to using pain as a preventative measure.MrGeezer

You can't try to have a symposium with your 4 year old child when they're screaming in McDonalds or the Greocery store. You definately can't negotiate, because that shows weakness, and obviously tells them that what they are doing is right.

You're a part of the problem.

You act as if they're trying to break their arm... It's a smack on their bottom, releasing hormones and letting them know that they don't control you.

Agreed. On another note, anyone that hits their child is telling them that aggression is acceptable. Good parenting? I think not.

That's like saying that you're teaching your kids that stealing is acceptable when you punish them by taking away their X-Box.

No, not with the assurance that if they clean up their act they will get it back in return. There's a difference between abuse and discipline.

Who's to say that they deserve it back at all? Now you're working under the notion that your kid is ENTITLED to an X-Box. That if you take it away from him, you've gotta eventually give it back.

Yeah, there's a difference between abuse and discipline. There's also a big ****ing difference between spanking and starting fights. Your kid beating the **** out of someone because he's mad isn't ANYTHING like spanking a kid in a calm, controlled manner.

If you're gonna compare apples and oranges, then compare apples and oranges. I don't see why you'd draw the line at comparing a granny smith apple to a blood orange.

Who the hell says they're entitled? They're PRIVILEGED to have an X-Box. Big difference. I don't have to give ANYTHING back, and can take and return anything the hell I want that is dependent upon their behavior.

And where do you draw the line between spanking and hitting, tell me? You are a hypocrite if you condone one and allow the other based on the rationale of severity.

That's what I was saying. Yeah, I can take away my kid's stuff, and I don't have to give it back. Is that sending them the lesson that they can take things that belong to other people?

Where do I draw the line between spanking my kid, and my kid punching a dude in the face? It's the EXACT SAME LINE that makes it okay to take away Little Timmy's X-Box, but makes it NOT okay for Little Timmy to steal a friend's Ipod.

The level of severity certainly matters. You can punish your kid by making him mow the lawn, but you can't make him haul rocks for 48 hours straight with no sleep. Raising your voice at your kid is also different than calling him a worthless little ****head. And yes, smacking him on his butt is different than punching him in the face. Level of severity absolutely matters. Pretty much ANY punishment can become abusive if taken to the extreme.

However, level of severity isn't ALL that matters. Parents have AUTHORITY over their kids. You have authority to take your kid's Xbox. Your kid, however, does not have authority to take someone else's Xbox, since he is not their legal guardian. You also have authority to punish your kid in other ways, such as by spanking them. You do NOT have authority to walk up to some random man in the mall and spank him.

I can't believe you actually need this explained.

And you needn't have if you'd elaborated in your previous posts. I knew this, but thanks again for refreshing my memory.

meh when i was bad my parent didnt just spank me, they literately tore me apart ahem, imo kids these day have it easy ciaxhieu

yeah tell me about it they have it way to easy