do you think a woman president would make the US a happier place?

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] I know. But your prophet said this: "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler." - Sahih Bukhari 9:88:219 Check and mate. ghoklebutter

During the battle of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a Word (I heard from the Prophet). When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

I'll give you one point, though; there were a lot of problems with the collection of ahadith. If anything, though I'm inclined to trust that a hadith from Sahih Bukhari is reliable. Also, this is only about whether women can be rulers in Islam; of course, many scholars have permitted women to be judges and so on. But given the patriarchal character of Islam, I don't think it seems unreasonable to say that Muhammad didn't want women to be rulers.

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] I know. But your prophet said this: "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler." - Sahih Bukhari 9:88:219 Check and mate. ghoklebutter

During the battle of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a Word (I heard from the Prophet). When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

I'll give you one point, though; there were a lot of problems with the collection of ahadith. If anything, though I'm inclined to trust that a hadith from Sahih Bukhari is reliable. Also, this is only about whether women can be rulers in Islam; of course, many scholars have permitted women to be judges and so on. But given the patriarchal character of Islam, I don't think it seems unreasonable to say that Muhammad didn't want women to be rulers.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"] do you know anything about the basis of this hadith? when it was spoken? and the context of it. not to mention the problems that arise when you realize when and how the hadiths were collected? There are several instances where women were appointed or got elected to positions of power in the islamic world throughout history. ah you know what? fvck it.... i don't care. SaudiFury

During the battle of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a Word (I heard from the Prophet). When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

I'll give you one point, though; there were a lot of problems with the collection of ahadith. If anything, though I'm inclined to trust that a hadith from Sahih Bukhari is reliable. Also, this is only about whether women can be rulers in Islam; of course, many scholars have permitted women to be judges and so on. But given the patriarchal character of Islam, I don't think it seems unreasonable to say that Muhammad didn't want women to be rulers.

Quoting a narrative of why women of the non-Muslim faith should not lead communities against a woman of the Muslim faith that lead the Ummah on a quest of justice, I can see what is wrong with that.

[QUOTE="MrPraline"]>2012 >believing it matters who becomes president of america i shiggity diggity doo wop diddly doghoklebutter

$> cd /pub/

$> more beer

depends on the woman, if it were Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin then **** no, maybe when pigs fly and Hell is frozen overlamprey263

Pigs already fly :P

Australia got their first female Prime Minister a few years ago, and it hasn't worked out very well (she is just a horrible politician in general, has nothing to do with gender).Mario_Eater

It has been scientifically proven that a female president is more likely to push the red button, thus triggering a nuclear holocaust, due to hormonal changes and subsequent mood swings during that time of the month.

It has been scientifically proven that a female president is more likely to push the red button, thus triggering a nuclear holocaust, due to hormonal changes and subsequent mood swings during that time of the month.

BluRayHiDef

lolno

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

It has been scientifically proven that a female president is more likely to push the red button, thus triggering a nuclear holocaust, due to hormonal changes and subsequent mood swings during that time of the month.

surrealnumber5

'Twas a joke.

I really don't think it'd make the world a relatively happier place. A female president likely won't happen anytime soon at all though.

It has been scientifically proven that a female president is more likely to push the red button, thus triggering a nuclear holocaust,

BluRayHiDef

Nuclear strike orders have to be confirmed by the Secretary of Defense.

Which is kind of relieving.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"] do you know anything about the basis of this hadith? when it was spoken? and the context of it. not to mention the problems that arise when you realize when and how the hadiths were collected? There are several instances where women were appointed or got elected to positions of power in the islamic world throughout history. ah you know what? fvck it.... i don't care. Victorious_Fize

During the battle of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a Word (I heard from the Prophet). When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

I'll give you one point, though; there were a lot of problems with the collection of ahadith. If anything, though I'm inclined to trust that a hadith from Sahih Bukhari is reliable. Also, this is only about whether women can be rulers in Islam; of course, many scholars have permitted women to be judges and so on. But given the patriarchal character of Islam, I don't think it seems unreasonable to say that Muhammad didn't want women to be rulers.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"] do you know anything about the basis of this hadith? when it was spoken? and the context of it. not to mention the problems that arise when you realize when and how the hadiths were collected? There are several instances where women were appointed or got elected to positions of power in the islamic world throughout history. ah you know what? fvck it.... i don't care. SaudiFury

During the battle of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a Word (I heard from the Prophet). When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

I'll give you one point, though; there were a lot of problems with the collection of ahadith. If anything, though I'm inclined to trust that a hadith from Sahih Bukhari is reliable. Also, this is only about whether women can be rulers in Islam; of course, many scholars have permitted women to be judges and so on. But given the patriarchal character of Islam, I don't think it seems unreasonable to say that Muhammad didn't want women to be rulers.

It's a Sahih hadith, the issue is not with the authenticity, the issue is with using it against Aisha on her Battle of Jamal... that defeats Ghokle's point entirely and ironically.Victorious_Fize

>2012

>believing it matters who becomes president of america

i shiggity diggity doo wop diddly doMrPraline

However, if we were to get into an idealistic view of it and say that it actually matters quite a lot who the president is and that one individual could reallychange a country, then the answer is no, not necessarily.

Not all women are the same. There are some great female politicians out there, and there are some who are lacking, just like with men. Also, since everyone's views are different, there's really no way that 100% of the population could ever be happy with an individual who's been elected as president. Even if the president does a decent job, there will still be complaints and disagreements -- that's just the nature of it.

Inherently, a female president wouldn't make the U.S. a "happier" place, but the potential certainly is there.

I don't really think that a woman will be elected as president any time soon, though, so this is merely an interesting hypothetical for the time being.

Also, the lame period jokes all over this thread can stop any time now..

Also, the lame period jokes all over this thread can stop any time now..

t3hrubikscube

jokes piss me off

ghoklebutter

Never say anything like that ever again.

Naaa, I worked at a place that was run by a female, everyone hated her. So did I...

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]It's a Sahih hadith, the issue is not with the authenticity, the issue is with using it against Aisha on her Battle of Jamal... that defeats Ghokle's point entirely and ironically.ghoklebutter

Women hold grudges a bit more than men do, so no.

No, women know far more than men why a female president would be a disaster. Well I remember two women besides Hilary trying to be president/vice president.. Lol!

/thread

edit: oh and I remember women sayying they do not trust those women.

It could but it could also make it worse. It depends entirely on who the woman is.

Have you read anything I wrote? Islam doesn't forbid female leadership. The Prophet laughs off a nation with no able men to lead so much that they gave their empire to a woman, which at the time were not trained to lead at all. Furthermore, you used a narrative taken on the Battle of Jamal against Aisha, wife of the Prophet and leader of the opposition. If that's not ironic, I don't know what is.

Victorious_Fize

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhZH0T6j5C9f09mDTR

based on that im going to say NO

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

Have you read anything I wrote? Islam doesn't forbid female leadership. The Prophet laughs off a nation with no able men to lead so much that they gave their empire to a woman, which at the time were not trained to lead at all. Furthermore, you used a narrative taken on the Battle of Jamal against Aisha, wife of the Prophet and leader of the opposition. If that's not ironic, I don't know what is.

ghoklebutter

BTW, was the dear supposed to be patronizing or extenuating?In all rates, lets make this easier:

1- what are you stating?

2- what is your evidence?

3- what do you think it means?

4- on what grounds?

5- were the context and/or origins that lead to the statement included in those grounds, if so, what are they?

Still talking about Aisha and the Battle of Jamal?

zzzz......ZZZZZ.....zzzzz...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........zzzzzz.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...............

Still talking about Aisha and the Battle of Jamal?

zzzz......ZZZZZ.....zzzzz...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........zzzzzz.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...............

Storm_Marine

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Still talking about Aisha and the Battle of Jamal?

zzzz......ZZZZZ.....zzzzz...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........zzzzzz.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...............

Victorious_Fize

I already made a post about Aisha and you ignored it.

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Still talking about Aisha and the Battle of Jamal?

zzzz......ZZZZZ.....zzzzz...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........zzzzzz.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...............

Storm_Marine

I already made a post about Aisha and you ignored it.

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"] Judging by your posting history, I doubt you even know the two. To answer your question however, yes, as long as people randomly quote me on OT solely to make offensive remarks about Islam, I will continue to defend myself.

Victorious_Fize

I already made a post about Aisha and you ignored it.

No you don't. And my point was perfectly valid. Problem?

I would actually be worried about our relations with the middle east. Given how women are viewed over there it could cause more problems then it solves in that regard.

how should i put this...the majority of our international dealings as of late have been with middle eastern dignitaries...what do the majority of people in the middle east thing of women? that they are below men...so yes...lets elect a woman president so that the people we are dealing with will take us as a joke on top of the problems they already have with us...note my sarcasm...

I've literally the faintest idea of what you just said... you have a serious knack forsophistry or ignoring the other party's content. I've told you countless times the origins of the statement. An empire lacking leadership so much that they needed a woman is one that will not succeed.

BTW, was the dear supposed to be patronizing or extenuating?In all rates, lets make this easier:

1- what are you stating?

2- what is your evidence?

3- what do you think it means?

4- on what grounds?

5- were the context and/or origins that lead to the statement included in those grounds, if so, what are they?

Victorious_Fize

"Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

If it weren't general, then it wouldn't refer to "nation" as a general term and "woman" as a general term. And if it were specific about incompetent women, it would say "Never will succeed such a nation as makes an incompetent woman their ruler." But there is no judgment of competence here. The only thing that is mentioned here is the sex of unsuccessful rulers, namely female. Thus, I conclude that the meaning is as follows: no nation ruled by a woman will succeed.

Also, here's what Ibn Kathir has to say:

Ibn Katheer says:

It means the man is in charge of the woman; he is her leader, the ruler over her WHO DISCIPLINES HER if she goes astray.

"because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other" means, because men are superior to woman, and a man IS BETTER THAN A WOMAN. Hence Prophethood was given ONLY TO MEN, as is the role of caliph, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "No people will ever prosper who appoint a woman in charge of them."

Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/492.

Page 641 of Umdat al-Salik essentially has the same argument.

how should i put this...the majority of our international dealings as of late have been with middle eastern dignitaries...what do the majority of people in the middle east thing of women? that they are below men...so yes...lets elect a woman president so that the people we are dealing with will take us as a joke on top of the problems they already have with us...note my sarcasm...

lpjazzman220

Obama is already regarded as a joke by Middle Eastern countries.

I do not think that a woman president would be any different than another male presidency.

coolbeans90

Agreed. Our province has had a female premier recently, and absolutely nothing is different, despite the numerous vocal complaints from the conservative right about how our economy was doomed now that a woman is in charge. Male or female, it is a certain TYPE of person that runs for power, and these people have to work through their party and earn its trust.

how should i put this...the majority of our international dealings as of late have been with middle eastern dignitaries...what do the majority of people in the middle east thing of women? that they are below men...so yes...lets elect a woman president so that the people we are dealing with will take us as a joke on top of the problems they already have with us...note my sarcasm...

lpjazzman220

A lot of men thought Queen Elizabeth I was a joke when she ascended to power. That didn't work out too well for them. And she's not the only one. People start respecting you in spite of biases and personal beliefs when you demonstrate strength and capability as a ruler.

how should i put this...the majority of our international dealings as of late have been with middle eastern dignitaries...what do the majority of people in the middle east thing of women? that they are below men...so yes...lets elect a woman president so that the people we are dealing with will take us as a joke on top of the problems they already have with us...note my sarcasm...

lpjazzman220

A woman pres, that's another $5 trillion debt right there.

By the time we get thru all the "special interests" getting their turn at "making America better" the Federal Reserve will be printing money at full steam just to service the interest on our debt, and basic things like gas will be $50/gallon, necessitating more "help" and further debt.

In the end the fed will collapse and we'll be facing another civil war.