I'm Armenian Orthodox and i still believe in religion because it teaches people not to be evil in witch some country's it does work but do you think one day it will die out
No. People will always wonder how we came to be (until we finally learn, though I doubt we ever will) and one possibility people consider is that we were created by a higher being. I don't think that will change. It's a comforting thought, for most people, that we were created.
I'm Armenian Orthodox and i still believe in religion because it teaches people not to be evil in witch some country's it does work but do you think one day it will die out iki080
You need religion to teach you that? As for the question: I hope it someday will. Because we're fully able to make up for ourselves how we can best live our lives, we don't need a religion for that.
[QUOTE="iki080"]I'm Armenian Orthodox and i still believe in religion because it teaches people not to be evil in witch some country's it does work but do you think one day it will die out ShotGunBunny
You need religion to teach you that? As for the question: I hope it someday will. Because we're fully able to make up for ourselves how we can best live our lives, we don't need a religion for that. If there's on thing I've learned over the years, you can't rely on humanity's better judgement to be moral.
No. Aside from the fact that I believe Christianity to be true, I do not see how civilized society will last without any type of religion. Without religion morality has no standard other than preference. Without a basis for morality there is very little stopping people from acting corrupt and going against their preference. Indeed government and society does dictate many morals but without the influence of religion, even the government becomes more corrupt than it would otherwise (just look at many dictators for example). There always needs to be people shouting in the background "that's not a good idea!" Without religion, morality is just an opinion. If you think morality is indeed more than an opinion and claim to be a naturalist, change line your life up with your teachings or change your teachings.
I really wish it would, all it's accomplished is get millions of people killed.ethanpaige
Yet more have died in the past 100 years because of anti-theistic dictators like Mao Ze-Dong and Jozef Stalin than Christians have killed in the past 2000 years...
[QUOTE="ethanpaige"]I really wish it would, all it's accomplished is get millions of people killed.mindstorm
Yet more have died in the past 100 years because of anti-theistic dictators like Mao Ze-Dong and Jozef Stalin than Christians have killed in the past 2000 years... I never made any reference to christians or any religious groups, I just meant that religion is the cause of many wars in history and many genocides were based on certain religions. I can see from your sig you're christian and proud of it, and I'm fine with that.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="ethanpaige"]I really wish it would, all it's accomplished is get millions of people killed.ethanpaige
Yet more have died in the past 100 years because of anti-theistic dictators like Mao Ze-Dong and Jozef Stalin than Christians have killed in the past 2000 years... I never made any reference to christians or any religious groups, I just meant that religion is the cause of many wars in history and many genocides were based on certain religions. I can see from your sig you're christian and proud of it, and I'm fine with that. I'm just merely pointing out that those who have a hatred towards religion are more inclined to genocide than the religious people... which means you have fault in your argument.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="ethanpaige"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] Yet more have died in the past 100 years because of anti-theistic dictators like Mao Ze-Dong and Jozef Stalin than Christians have killed in the past 2000 years... I never made any reference to christians or any religious groups, I just meant that religion is the cause of many wars in history and many genocides were based on certain religions. I can see from your sig you're christian and proud of it, and I'm fine with that. I'm just merely pointing out that those who have a hatred towards religion are more inclined to genocide than the religious people... which means you have fault in your argument. And the genocide is done towards said hated religion, which is what I was pointing out. I wasn't stating that religious groups commit genocide, I was merely stating that they're often the victims.
And the genocide is done towards said hated religion, which is what I was pointing out. I wasn't stating that religious groups commit genocide, I was merely stating that they're often the victims.ethanpaige
So then religion should be abolished so that the nonreligious will not victimize the religious? o.0
[QUOTE="ethanpaige"] And the genocide is done towards said hated religion, which is what I was pointing out. I wasn't stating that religious groups commit genocide, I was merely stating that they're often the victims.mindstorm
So then religion should be abolished so that the nonreligious will not victimize the religious? o.0 I have a problem with 6.5 million people being massacred because of a certain belief, I have a problem with millions of people being enslaved because of their skin color. If you don't than that's fine, that's your oppinion. But things that divide us and segregate us across our planet have been things that have gotten us killed throughout history. I have no problems with any religions, with any race, but there are those out there that do. I just don't like how people use these things as an excuse to feed their own superiority complexes. It's a sensitive subject for me, and I can see you're not leaving this argument until you win it, so go ahead and take it, I really don't care.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="ethanpaige"] And the genocide is done towards said hated religion, which is what I was pointing out. I wasn't stating that religious groups commit genocide, I was merely stating that they're often the victims.ethanpaige
So then religion should be abolished so that the nonreligious will not victimize the religious? o.0 I have a problem with 6.5 million people being massacred because of a certain belief, I have a problem with millions of people being enslaved because of their skin color. If you don't than that's fine, that's your oppinion. But things that divide us and segregate us across our planet have been things that have gotten us killed throughout history. I have no problems with any religions, with any race, but there are those out there that do. I just don't like how people use these things as an excuse to feed their own superiority complexes. It's a sensitive subject for me, and I can see you're not leaving this argument until you win it, so go ahead and take it, I really don't care. So to sum it up, you simply do not like anything that separates people and creates inequality? If so, fair enough. I do agree every person is equal but my religious ideas are the foundation for that belief. I'm more or less trying to examine what you believe and therefore trying to make you think as well. "Winning" is not quite my prerogative. :D
No. Aside from the fact that I believe Christianity to be true, I do not see how civilized society will last without any type of religion. Without religion morality has no standard other than preference. Without a basis for morality there is very little stopping people from acting corrupt and going against their preference. Indeed government and society does dictate many morals but without the influence of religion, even the government becomes more corrupt than it would otherwise (just look at many dictators for example). There always needs to be people shouting in the background "that's not a good idea!" Without religion, morality is just an opinion. If you think morality is indeed more than an opinion and claim to be a naturalist, change line your life up with your teachings or change your teachings.mindstorm
I disagree with that. You don't need religion to have morals. lol
Yeah i guess you could say that. I just don't like segregation. I think everyone is an equal as human beings on this planet regardless of race, color, or faith. It's just the problems they cause I don't like.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]No. Aside from the fact that I believe Christianity to be true, I do not see how civilized society will last without any type of religion. Without religion morality has no standard other than preference. Without a basis for morality there is very little stopping people from acting corrupt and going against their preference. Indeed government and society does dictate many morals but without the influence of religion, even the government becomes more corrupt than it would otherwise (just look at many dictators for example). There always needs to be people shouting in the background "that's not a good idea!" Without religion, morality is just an opinion. If you think morality is indeed more than an opinion and claim to be a naturalist, change line your life up with your teachings or change your teachings.TheDawnofFlames
I disagree with that. You don't need religion to have morals. lol I agree. I'm just saying your morality without religion is nothing more than an opinion with no foundation.
Yeah i guess you could say that. I just don't like segregation. I think everyone is an equal as human beings on this planet regardless of race, color, or faith. It's just the problems they cause I don't like.ethanpaige
I agree entirely. Even though I'm a Christian with a Calvinistic mindset (being predestined by God to be saved/elect) I do not think myself any better than any other human being. It is God's grace and mercy which sets me apart, nothing about myself is more valuable than another person. I therefore have no right to judge another being more harshly than I would myself.
[QUOTE="TheDawnofFlames"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]No. Aside from the fact that I believe Christianity to be true, I do not see how civilized society will last without any type of religion. Without religion morality has no standard other than preference. Without a basis for morality there is very little stopping people from acting corrupt and going against their preference. Indeed government and society does dictate many morals but without the influence of religion, even the government becomes more corrupt than it would otherwise (just look at many dictators for example). There always needs to be people shouting in the background "that's not a good idea!" Without religion, morality is just an opinion. If you think morality is indeed more than an opinion and claim to be a naturalist, change line your life up with your teachings or change your teachings.mindstorm
I disagree with that. You don't need religion to have morals. lol I agree. I'm just saying your morality without religion is nothing more than an opinion with no foundation. And being religious makes your morality absoulte?
[QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"] And being religious makes your morality absoulte? Being religious doesn't make my morality absolute but the morality within the religion itself is absolute. AKA I can still get something wrong but there is an absolute right or wrong.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"] And being religious makes your morality absoulte? Being religious doesn't make my morality absolute but the morality within the religion itself is absolute. AKA I can still get something wrong but there is an absolute right or wrong. Your religion's morality is your own then, I assume.
[QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"] And being religious makes your morality absoulte? Being religious doesn't make my morality absolute but the morality within the religion itself is absolute. AKA I can still get something wrong but there is an absolute right or wrong. Your religion's morality is your own then, I assume. That is indeed my intention.
[QUOTE="TheDawnofFlames"]The foundation can be a law. mindstorm
Which is governed by someone's opinion or a religion? Even with government laws, it's a matter of opinion or religion.Religion was just a building block for laws. Once you have your set of laws, you no longer need religion, all you need then is logic. You also have to take in consideration that some opinions aren't exactly in the right or for the better of all mankind. I also firmly believe that you can create a fair set of laws without religion as a tool. Anyway, I don't really care if religion ever dies. It's welcome to stay, but outside of the public. I think it should be kept to your household or local church, that's it. Also take out "Under god' from the pledge. And I'm good. However, what needs to go is people who think they are above everyone else and try to force their religion on others. (Not you) Just saying.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="TheDawnofFlames"]The foundation can be a law. TheDawnofFlames
Which is governed by someone's opinion or a religion? Even with government laws, it's a matter of opinion or religion.Religion was just a building block for laws. Once you have your set of laws, you no longer need religion, all you need then is logic. You also have to take in consideration that some opinions aren't exactly in the right or for the better of all mankind. I also firmly believe that you can create a fair set of laws without religion as a tool. Anyway, I don't really care if religion ever dies. It's welcome to stay, but outside of the public. I think it should be kept to your household or local church, that's it. Also take out "Under god' from the pledge. And I'm good. However, what needs to go is people who think they are above everyone else and try to force their religion on others. (Not you) Just saying. Yay for political correctiveness! o.0 If I were not as adamant about my own beliefs being true then I'd agree. If religion is true then should it not pervade culture entirely? Let's keep the truth to ourselves while everything else dies around us without it even being aware of it's cancer. This idea seems to be what the church is told to do. Any civilized person who believes he has a better way of life should share it, not keep it to himself.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] Being religious doesn't make my morality absolute but the morality within the religion itself is absolute. AKA I can still get something wrong but there is an absolute right or wrong. Your religion's morality is your own then, I assume. That is indeed my intention. Then if a religion's morality is your own and you follow it, why is it not absolute? The religion's moral conduct - as well as your own. My statement on this is not that some religious people might think they are always right , but even if you believe that the morality you follow is absolute, it is still subjected to opinion. Would not everyone understand what is truly moral? Then why is it subjected to opinions? What is the value of an absolute morality if everyone can think for themselves about what is right or wrong or neither? The value of an absolute morality is relative to the person who believes in it, I think.
Yes, one day religion will be obsolete. As our knowledge of the universe and the world around us increases, religion will no longer be relevant. It's already becoming harder and harder for theist to logically explain their beliefs...most either cherry pick and pretend things weren't literal.
I will say I don't think religion will completely go away, but I believe it will be replaces by a more general spirituality. The dogma and fairy tales that accompany religion, however, will be a thing of our ridiculous past. Jesus will join the ranks of other "obsolete gods" like Zeus, Crom (lol) and Thor.
People are too incompetent to believe in themselves or humanity, so will always try to banish their fears through superstitious beliefs. I think in a thousand years religion will still exist, just maybe not as widespread as today.
No, unfortunately. It's too comforting for people to give up. Dark_Knight6
Indeed. It's sort of like the "easy" way, no matter how oxymoron that may sound seeing that it is religion that explicitely poses restrictions to people in order to behave. But the great feat is in having your self-control without religion reminding you of it; to be your own judge: that is the difficult part.
And I think that it will always be religion even in a different form or intensity of belief.
Still though if it becomes extinct, then we will have negative aspects simply because many people become anti-religious/atheists/agnostics for the wrong reasons, and atheism is in common sense (unfortunately) is bound with innacountability and rebelious behavior, and once you label a thing, as it pregresses it tends to accept it's label, and then the initial intentions are twisted by the ones to whom it was handed down to.
[QUOTE="ethanpaige"]I really wish it would, all it's accomplished is get millions of people killed.mindstorm
Yet more have died in the past 100 years because of anti-theistic dictators like Mao Ze-Dong and Jozef Stalin than Christians have killed in the past 2000 years... How could you say that :| Do you even know how many people crhistiany have killed? ( funny thought, by the way) .Im just asking for an aproximate number, not the real deal r How many went on inquisition? How many died on the crusades? How many slaves the chuch watched to die? and how many lives were taken during the ethic cleasing they made here in South America? Church, its the biggest murder in history, and definitly an evil institution. Devil dress in Blue
No. Aside from the fact that I believe Christianity to be true, I do not see how civilized society will last without any type of religion. Without religion morality has no standard other than preference. Without a basis for morality there is very little stopping people from acting corrupt and going against their preference. Indeed government and society does dictate many morals but without the influence of religion, even the government becomes more corrupt than it would otherwise (just look at many dictators for example). There always needs to be people shouting in the background "that's not a good idea!" Without religion, morality is just an opinion. If you think morality is indeed more than an opinion and claim to be a naturalist, change line your life up with your teachings or change your teachings.mindstorm
Well, only 16% of Estonians believe in God - meaning under 16% in are religious - and it hasn't dissolved into anarchy yet.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="ethanpaige"]I really wish it would, all it's accomplished is get millions of people killed.Adrianstalker
Yet more have died in the past 100 years because of anti-theistic dictators like Mao Ze-Dong and Jozef Stalin than Christians have killed in the past 2000 years... How could you say that :| Do you even know how many people crhistiany have killed? ( funny thought, by the way) .Im just asking for an aproximate number, not the real deal r How many went on inquisition? How many died on the crusades? How many slaves the chuch watched to die? and how many lives were taken during the ethic cleasing they made here in South America? Church, its the biggest murder in history, and definitly an evil institution. Devil dress in Blue I can easily say that... About 100 million people were killed by Mao Zedong, Jozef Stalin, and Hitler How many thousand died from the Spanish Inquisition? I'm not trying to say those atrocities were not horrible but in comparison to "religious wars," it does not compare.
[QUOTE="Adrianstalker"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] Yet more have died in the past 100 years because of anti-theistic dictators like Mao Ze-Dong and Jozef Stalin than Christians have killed in the past 2000 years...mindstorm
How could you say that :| Do you even know how many people crhistiany have killed? ( funny thought, by the way) .Im just asking for an aproximate number, not the real deal r How many went on inquisition? How many died on the crusades? How many slaves the chuch watched to die? and how many lives were taken during the ethic cleasing they made here in South America? Church, its the biggest murder in history, and definitly an evil institution. Devil dress in Blue I can easily say that... About 100 million people were killed by Mao Zedong, Jozef Stalin, and Hitler How many thousand died from the Spanish Inquisition? I'm not trying to say those atrocities were not horrible but in comparison to "religious wars," it does not compare.
The technology utilized by today's tyrants allow death counts to be much greater. If the Spanish (or crusades ect) had machine guns and bombs, the kill count would be insanely higher.
Point is they surely compare when put into context, and ethanpaige/Adrianstalker has a very valid point. I don't know to what degree, but there is truth there.
No. People will always wonder how we came to be (until we finally learn, though I doubt we ever will) and one possibility people consider is that we were created by a higher being. I don't think that will change. It's a comforting thought, for most people, that we were created.
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