Do you think the Government had anything to do with the JFK assassination?

[QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]The two shots at JFK were at completely different angles.GabuEx

It has already been scientifically shown that all three shots were perfectly capable of having come from the same place.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]The two shots at JFK were at completely different angles.Vilot_Hero

It has already been scientifically shown that all three shots were perfectly capable of having come from the same place.

Bu..But science said it was capable. I thought science was your hero.

Do you not know what capable means??? He could of shot him or he couldn't of ...We don't know. Only the FBI know.Vilot_Hero

*sighs* YOU have not provided any plausible proof to support your claim. In fact, I ended this thread on the last page. The post where I destroyed your points with my counter-points? You know, that post? The post you didn't respond to?

EDIT: page 5

really sir do tell me how exactly YOU know of this. 

You just keep dodging my questions...Let's imagine that the FBI didn't kill JFK. Where's the proof that Oswald did?Vilot_Hero

Where's the proof he didn't? Oh, and it's not imagining the FBI didn't kill JFK. They didn't kill JFK. You got your argument straight from wikipedia.

I was going to tell you to get educated on the subject, but then I saw the part where you said WWII was a conspiracy and I..

*uber facepalmed*

You just keep dodging my questions...Let's imagine that the FBI didn't kill JFK. Where's the proof that Oswald did?Vilot_Hero

You're the one with the burden of proof. Prove to me that the FBI or some other entity besides Oswald killed Kennedy. I don't care about motives or your assumptions. Show me some hard cold indisputable facts. 

[QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]You just keep dodging my questions...Let's imagine that the FBI didn't kill JFK. Where's the proof that Oswald did?-Sun_Tzu-

You're the one with the burden of proof. Prove to me that the FBI or some other entity besides Oswald killed Kennedy. I don't care about motives or your assumptions. Show me some hard cold indisputable facts.

Nowhe is going to respond to your post instead of mine.

You just keep dodging my questions...Let's imagine that the FBI didn't kill JFK. Where's the proof that Oswald did?Vilot_Hero

He was up in the book depository, he had marksman training, there were shells found where he supposedly shot JFK from, he obviously liked the Soviet Union, JFK was not exactly friendly towards the Soviet Union... I dunno, but there kinda seem to be dots that can be connected there.

Vilot_Hero, i am going to end this now. There probably was ABOSOLUTLEY NO goverment involvement in the JFK assassination.

End of story.

Vilot_Hero, i am going to end this now. There probably was ABOSOLUTLEY NO goverment involvement in the JFK assassination.

End of story.

[QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]You just keep dodging my questions...Let's imagine that the FBI didn't kill JFK. Where's the proof that Oswald did?GabuEx

He was up in the book depository, he had marksman training, there were shells found where he supposedly shot JFK from, he obviously liked the Soviet Union, JFK was not exactly friendly towards the Soviet Union... I dunno, but there kinda seem to be dots that can be connected there.

Anyways, I think it isn't too far-fetched to suspect that Oswald was simply depressed or mentally instable. The musical 'Assassins' hypothesizes that perhaps Oswald was just trying to accomplish the elusive American Dream. He couldn't find any satisfaction anywhere in life. He'd been a failure. He'd been a disgrace as a marine, defected to the Soviet Union. Wasn't satisfied there, defected back. So he does the one thing that can bring him satisfaction: shooting the president.

Granting, I'm basing all of this off of a play...

[QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]You just keep dodging my questions...Let's imagine that the FBI didn't kill JFK. Where's the proof that Oswald did?GabuEx

He was up in the book depository, he had marksman training, there were shells found where he supposedly shot JFK from, he obviously liked the Soviet Union, JFK was not exactly friendly towards the Soviet Union... I dunno, but there kinda seem to be dots that can be connected there.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]You just keep dodging my questions...Let's imagine that the FBI didn't kill JFK. Where's the proof that Oswald did?PannicAtack

He was up in the book depository, he had marksman training, there were shells found where he supposedly shot JFK from, he obviously liked the Soviet Union, JFK was not exactly friendly towards the Soviet Union... I dunno, but there kinda seem to be dots that can be connected there.

Anyways, I think it isn't too far-fetched to suspect that Oswald was simply depressed or mentally instable. The musical 'Assassins' hypothesizes that perhaps Oswald was just trying to accomplish the elusive American Dream. He couldn't find any satisfaction anywhere in life. He'd been a failure. He'd been a disgrace as a marine, defected to the Soviet Union. Wasn't satisfied there, defected back. So he does the one thing that can bring him satisfaction: shooting the president.

Granting, I'm basing all of this off of a play...

Well, as Alfred Hitchcock once said, "Drama is life with all the dull bits left out."

That's a motive...And where is the proof of the casings in the depository? The way JFk shot still puzzles me....How can a bullet go directly into the side of his head if Lee was shooting from an angle?Vilot_Hero

As I have already stated, it has been conclusively proven that no laws of physics are broken by the tragectory of what was once called the "magic bullet", and that if Oswald did indeed shoot JFK from where he was in the car, the bullet would indeed have gone exactly where it did.

So: we've established a motive, we've established that Oswald was where he was on the day of the shooting, we've established that a bullet striking JFK with the tragectory it would have had would have done exactly what it did in reality... what, exactly, is left?  Occam's razor compels us to determine that the likeliest explanation is none other than the accepted explanation, and that all of this hullabaloo about a government conspiracy constitutes totally unnecessary assumptions that are not needed to explain the facts.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

He was up in the book depository, he had marksman training, there were shells found where he supposedly shot JFK from, he obviously liked the Soviet Union, JFK was not exactly friendly towards the Soviet Union... I dunno, but there kinda seem to be dots that can be connected there.

-Sun_Tzu-

Anyways, I think it isn't too far-fetched to suspect that Oswald was simply depressed or mentally instable. The musical 'Assassins' hypothesizes that perhaps Oswald was just trying to accomplish the elusive American Dream. He couldn't find any satisfaction anywhere in life. He'd been a failure. He'd been a disgrace as a marine, defected to the Soviet Union. Wasn't satisfied there, defected back. So he does the one thing that can bring him satisfaction: shooting the president.

Granting, I'm basing all of this off of a play...

Well, as Alfred Hitchcock once said, "Drama is life with all the dull bits left out."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHn_ZYeKIhQ

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]You just keep dodging my questions...Let's imagine that the FBI didn't kill JFK. Where's the proof that Oswald did?Vilot_Hero

He was up in the book depository, he had marksman training, there were shells found where he supposedly shot JFK from, he obviously liked the Soviet Union, JFK was not exactly friendly towards the Soviet Union... I dunno, but there kinda seem to be dots that can be connected there.

It's funny how once again you have ignored me.

Lee didn't really have any motives....Atleast not as big as the FBI.Vilot_Hero

Lee didn't really have any motives....Atleast not as big as the FBI.Vilot_Hero

You say that I've shown a motive, but now that I've used that fact to arrive at a conclusion you don't like, you now say that he didn't have any motives?

At the very least keep your objections straight, or you could alternately admit that you believe this simply because you want it to be true. :P

Lee didn't really have any motives....Atleast not as big as the FBI.Vilot_Hero

Then go take it up with them.

[QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]Lee didn't really have any motives....Atleast not as big as the FBI.GabuEx

You say that I've shown a motive, but now that I've used that fact to arrive at a conclusion you don't like, you now say that he didn't have any motives?

At the very least keep your objections straight, or you could alternately admit that you believe this simply because you want it to be true. :P

People act as though it's unfathomable that a singular lunatic would want to shoot the president. Fact is, the vast majority of attempted assassinations have been just that.

Zangara thought that the capitalists were causing his stomach pains.

Charles Guiteau wanted to be ambassador to France.

Richard Lawrence thought he was Richard III of England.

Arthur Bremer wanted to prove his manliness.

Samuel Byck suffered from depression and paranoia, and blamed Nixon for the plights of the working class.

Fromme was a Manson groupie.

Moore was a vague hippie.

Corder wife died of cancer.

Hinckley was obsessed with Jodie Foster.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]Lee didn't really have any motives....Atleast not as big as the FBI.Vilot_Hero

You say that I've shown a motive, but now that I've used that fact to arrive at a conclusion you don't like, you now say that he didn't have any motives?

At the very least keep your objections straight, or you could alternately admit that you believe this simply because you want it to be true. :P

Why does the motive have to be "big" for someone to shoot the president. You wanna know why Reagan got shot? Because the shooter wanted to impress Jodie Foster. That's it. There was no big conspiracy. It wasn't Zombie Stalin who shot him. It was a man trying to impress Jodie Foster. 

Here's what I don't understand. Why do you care if it was a conspiracy? Even if 9/11 was a conspiracy. If you ever found any undeniable proof of either of these things, you would be shot.

 Sit back and don't rock the boat.

Here's what I don't understand. Why do you care if it was a conspiracy? Even if 9/11 was a conspiracy. If you ever found any undeniable proof of either of these things, you would be shot.

Sit back and don't rock the boat.

LittleHands134

No truer words have ever been spoken.

I know for certain the Government had something to do with it. They could of paid the mob or Soviet Bloc to kill him. Why was there 3 shots fired? Maybe several organizations wanted to assassinate JFK. When JFK was shot, the bullet entered his upper back. Couldn't the FBI of sent a sniper in the building covering Elm street? Thoughts?? No conspiracy pictures Gabu. I think the Government was up to something...Same with WW2 and 9/11.

JFK route http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dealey-plaza-annotated.png

 

Vilot_Hero

You say you know for certain in your first sentence that the government had something to do with it, and then you make a variety of assumptions of how they possibly did it?

What's bigger than the FBI getting shutdown??Nothing.Vilot_Hero

Despite the fact that you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence that JFK wanted to shut down the FBI, having a motive for something is not exactly the same as doing it.

As has been said, the vast majority of attempted assassinations have all been one guy acting out of his own accord.  John Wilkes Booth, another man successful at assassinating an American president, did not have any obscenely twisted ties with any shady organization; he was just a guy with a bunch of other guys who hated the North and wanted to be heroes.

Another example is Leon Czolgosz. He was an unemployed factory worker, an insurrectionist anarchist.

At the Pan-American games in Buffalo, New York, he simply wrapped a handkerchief around his gun, walked up to the President, and shot him.

One angry bum with an Ivor Johnson .35 and a handkerchief was all it took.

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"][QUOTE="Vilot_Hero"]The FBI was going to get shutdown....That's enough to get the feds worked up.Vilot_Hero

There's a major fallacy in your argument. If the FBI hired Ruby to take out Lee then someone else had to take out Ruby so no secrets would be leaked. Then someone else had to take out the person who took out Ruby and the process would be continuous. The easiest explanation is the most simplest. You are trying to over complicate the reasoning behind an event. This over complication is deterring away from the most obvious of answers.

I heard that it was declassified by the FBI that our US government let the Japanese fleet that bombed Pearl Harbor do it for specific reasons. Of coarse, no reason good enough. If that's true, I don't see why the assassination of JFK being planned by our government wouldn't be true.LikeHaterade

I haven't found anything indicating that to be the case.  If the American government did indeed do that, I kind of find it unlikely that they would just willingly hand over documents proving such to the American people.

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]I heard that it was declassified by the FBI that our US government let the Japanese fleet that bombed Pearl Harbor do it for specific reasons. Of coarse, no reason good enough. If that's true, I don't see why the assassination of JFK being planned by our government wouldn't be true.GabuEx

I haven't found anything indicating that to be the case.  If the American government did indeed do that, I kind of find it unlikely that they would just willingly hand over documents proving such to the American people.

Not me. Too many people busy watching American Idol to hear about it. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27705829/

A day late, but here you go.